Dear Jonathan Kay - MSN Messenger Voice Does Not Work!
Peter Boulton
There are countless messages in this newsgroup, including a couple of my
own, which report problems making MSN Messenger 6.1 voice work. None of the
standard answers appear to work. I have just spent a morning with 2
computers, 2 Passports and 2 MSN Messengers, trying all of the suggestions,
to no avail.
My setup is:
-Win XP Pro w SP1 / UPNP installed
-Solwise SAR715 ADSL Router with latest firmaware, running NAT, no firewall
-Router triggers set on router as per manufacturer's recommendation for
making Net Meeting work
-No firewall / XP firewall disabled
-Video / audio tests all done
-MSN Messenger latest version (6.1.0202)
-Video works fine (and registers entries in my 'Internet Connections' ->
'Settings' -> 'Properties' list of UPNP ports, but no audio. The invitation
is issued and accepted, the 'Connecting to...' message appears at the bottom
of the issuer's Messenger
window, but after 30-60 secs it says "The network or computer you are trying
to reach is experiencing a problem. Please try again later."
In fact, video actually works without XP UPNP installed, contrary to some
postings I
have seen.
Yahoo Messenger works just fine with this config. However, I prefer MSN
Messenger and the MSN Messenger video seems much better quality
So please, please, please Jonathan, help me and the rest of the world enjoy
your potentially wonderful software! Clearly there is something wrong with
the software or
documentation if it so darned hit and miss getting it working.
Thank you, in advance, for your help.
Pete
Peter Boulton
There are countless messages in this newsgroup, including a couple of my
own, which report problems making MSN Messenger 6.1 voice work. None of the
standard answers appear to work. I have just spent a morning with 2
computers, 2 Passports and 2 MSN Messengers, trying all of the suggestions,
to no avail.
My setup is:
-Win XP Pro w SP1 / UPNP installed
-Solwise SAR715 ADSL Router with latest firmaware, running NAT, no firewall
-Router triggers set on router as per manufacturer's recommendation for
making Net Meeting work
-No firewall / XP firewall disabled
-Video / audio tests all done
-MSN Messenger latest version (6.1.0202)
-Video works fine (and registers entries in my 'Internet Connections' ->
'Settings' -> 'Properties' list of UPNP ports, but no audio). The
Peter Boulton
strongly I feel about this!)
Pete
"Peter Boulton" <Pe...@DataNoSpamPerceptions.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bpdg7f$lkv$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Jonathan Kay [MVP]
There is no "standard" response that will address *all* voice issues, it's simply not
possible (sadly).
If you're not actually using Netmeeting, I would suggest you remove the "triggers" for the
Netmeeting ports. UPnP may have difficulty opening and forwarding ports on some routers,
depending on how Solwise implemented UPnP.
Actually, UPnP software does not need to be installed on the client PC. For example, a
Windows 95 (an OS with no UPnP software capabilities) user using MSN Messenger 5 can have
voice conversations behind a UPnP-enabled router without a problem. The only exception to
this is some Linksys UPnP-enabled firmware which seems to want the actual UPnP software
support to be installed -- this is still being looked into.
How do you know that video is being added to the ports and not voice (they're listed as the
same)? You mentioned that you were using 2 PCs, I assume one is outside the router (say on a
dialup connection). I'm just curious to whether this may be a problem with your contacts'
side as opposed to yours, since you seem to have addressed most of the issues that apply you
to.
Also, do you happen to be using a Intel NIC?
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
"Peter Boulton" <Pe...@DataNoSpamPerceptions.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bpdg54$8cb$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
Peter Boulton
Thanks for your reply and for taking my comments on the chin! I accept that
there is no 'standard' response to address all voice issues, but the fact
that voice issues are a recurrent theme in this newsgroup must signify
something for which additional action is required.
In my own case, here is some additional info relating to the questions you
raised:
1) I removed the Netmeeting port "triggers" as they didn't help, but not
before opening out a significantly wider range than recommended to see if
that helped MSN Messenger (it didn't)
2) If UPnP cannot open and forward ports on my router for Messenger, surely
all hope is lost for me? Or is there another tack I could explore on my
router?
3) Some of the posts relating to voice difficulties specifically say "it
worked in 5 and now doesn't in 6".
4) Would you advise removing the UPnP software from Windows XP then as, if I
understand you correctly, it is superfluous?
5) I know (I think!) that video is adding to the ports and not voice because
(with UPNP / Internet Connection-Gateway) I can go 'Status' ->
'Properties' -> 'Settings' to see the Services matched to ports. With MSN
Messenger loaded and some text chat the ports list is empty. If I then
intiate a successful video link one or more lines get added to the Services
listed on that dialog. If I delete the Services from that dialog, restart
MSN Messenger and do the same for voice then nothing gets added to the ports
list. This is telling me, but I am no expert, that video can successfully
open ports and voice cannot.
6) My tests with friends seem to suggest the problem is at my end, as they
have had successful voice conversations with other people and I am unable
to. At one point in the dim and distant past I voice did work, but then I
upgraded my router firmaware and my MSN Messenger version, and installed a
Logitech webcam and at some point it stopped working, though infuriatingly
and typically I just cannot trace which change caused it to stop working!
7) My NIC is an Allied Telesyn AT-2500TX (with Magic Packet) PCI Ethernet
Adaptor.
8) Other than going through all the hoops described in my original posting,
my recent tests have indeed been within the router - i.e. 2 PCs connected to
my Solwise SAR715 ADSL router. I did some more testing last night using a
Virtual PC (great product!) on the same computer (the real and virtual each
had different IP addresses, running NAT) - findings exactly the same as my
other tests, and the same as testing with friends outside my router.
I do hope this helps you make some suggestions that I can try. If you
believe that it may not be my problem then we can always give it a go - I
daresay you have Messenger! Say the word and I'll email my Messenger
identity to you at msnews...@jonathankay.com ? I'm very keen to get
this working, as I guess you can tell!
Thanks for taking the time to answer all these messages!
Regards,
Pete
------------------------------------------Peter Boulton,
Data Perceptions,
Creator of the Web Update Wizard - add update over the web to your software
with 1 line of code!
Visit us on the web....at... http://www.PowerProgrammer.co.uk
------------------------------------------
"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnews...@jonathankay.com> wrote in message
news:eecCcMir...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Peter Boulton
MSN Messenger voice working. Possibly a case of more questions than answers?
I have since spent a lot of time trying to make the darn thing work, but
without success. But here's one possibly interesting thing I noticed. Maybe
some kind soul can tell me what it means!
I created another Passport and am running 2 PCs, each with Messenger and a
unique Passport, attached to the router (Solwise 715). Text chat and video
are both fine. Voice, dead.
But here's a funny thing. If I clear all Reserved Mappings in the router,
save config and reset, then launch the Messengers and chat, no Reserved
Mappings are created. I think this is expected.
If I then attempt to launch voice, it goes through the usual stuff of
attempting to connect and then failing ("The network or computer you are
trying to reach is experiencing a problem. Please try again later.".
BUT - if I then check the Reserved Mappings
on the router I see the following:
Reserved Mappings
Reserved Mappings
Global IP Address Internal IP Address Transport Type Port Number
81.15.105.41 192.168.7.2 udp 7569 Delete...
81.15.105.41 192.168.7.2 tcp 15188 Delete...
81.157.105.41 192.168.7.7 udp 7533 Delete...
81.157.105.41 192.168.7.7 tcp 15259 Delete...
So, does this mean it's a Messenger / XP UPNP bug, in that the router is
doing everything asked of it?
Any help from someone who has got Messenger voice working or has any ideas
would be very gratefully received!
Thanks!
Pete
"Peter Boulton" <Pe...@DataNoSpamPerceptions.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bpdg54$8cb$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
Lucky One
I am not sure if I can help you but I am willing to try I did take a look at
the web site for Solwiise 715+ is this your router?
it did say that is UPnP and you need UPnP install on windows XP as you have
done
so is XP finding the router as a UPnP device do you get the router icon in
My Network Places? and after you sign in to MSN Messenger then go to"
Tools:" then "Options "'Connections Tab" at the bottom Advanced connections
information do you get " you are connected to the Internet through a UPnP IP
restricted NAT ( administrator)? I have a Linksys Router and Windows XP and
do Voice and video all the time with Msn Messenger
"Peter Boulton" <Pe...@DataNoSpamPerceptions.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bpko6l$6k2$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Peter Boulton
Many thanks for your reply.
My router is a Solwise 715 (not 715+).
When UPNP and IGD Discovery and Control Client are installed in my XP+SP1
you do indeed get the connection information you refer to in your message
(i.e. " you are connected to the Internet through a UPnP IP restricted NAT
( administrator)").
Solwise literally today posted a firmaware update for the router which I
have now flashed. Interestingly, I forgot to set the upnpport setting on
the router to 2800. My understanding is that WinXP UPNP requires a upnpport
above 1000, so the IGD was not running and, I assume, Messenger saw me as
connecting via a non-UPNP connection.
With this setting, video worked fine. I could not invite on voice but, for
the first time, was able to accept a voice connection from a modem user. I
then changed the upnpport on the router, reset etc and hoped that I could
then initiate voice, but no luck.
So, it seems that Messenger 6.1 does not need a UPNP router? And with it,
at least in my experience (and, judging by the postings in this group, a
whole lot of other people), it still does not deliver voice properly.
Yahoo Messenger works fine under all the different permutations I have
tried. My understanding from
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mesg/twin/twin-36.html is that Yahoo uses port
80 for chat, port 5100 for webcam and (presumably one of) ports 5000-5010
for voice. I just don't understand whether Messenger works the same way or
differently to Yahoo.
Is the information in this email news to you? I mean, I see many postings
from you which state that you need a UPNP router and UPNP installed on WinXP
for both video AND voice, yet everyone can get video to work, few can get
audio to work, and earlier this evening I was able to respond to (but not
initiate) a voice request successfully for the first time in ages WITHOUT
UPNP support running!
I confess that I am now more confused than I was before about what the
minimum requirement is to run voice over the internet with MSN Messenger. I
had thought UPNP XP + UPNP router were required at one end of the connection
as a minimum, yet it seems this may not be the case from the above.
Look forward to reading your response! Many thanks!
Pete
-------------------------------------------
Peter Boulton,
Data Perceptions,
Creator of the Web Update Wizard - add update over the web to your software
with 1 line of code!
Visit us on the web....at... http://www.PowerProgrammer.co.uk
-------------------------------------------
"Lucky One" <a...@dot.com> wrote in message
news:eHx8ggFs...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Peter Boulton
Further to the previous posting, some more R&D and some interesting
findings.
Test setup:
- Solwise SAR715 router, with upnpport set at 2800, no firewall
- WinXP Pro / SP1 WITHOUT UPNP / Discovery components and without firewall
enabled
- Messenger 6.1
- Computer 1 = my desktop XPPro, 1 passport
- Computer 2 = Virtual PC + XPPro on my desktop, Messenger 6.1, passport 2,
no
UPNP / Discovery components or firewall, running Virtual PC Shared
Networking (NAT).
Messenger on computer 1 reports "You are connected to the Internet through
an unknown NAT (Administrator)"
Messenger on computer 2 reports "You are connected to the Internet through a
UPnP symmetric NAT. (Administrator)".
So, first thing is, XP Pro clearly DOES NOT need the UPNP / Discovery
components to identify the router as UPNP. This is especially relevant for
Computer 1 - the real one connected in the normal way to the Solwise router.
The next thing to check is whether Messenger can dynamically open ports on
the router without UPNP / Discovery components installed. My router has a
web interface which let me check port mappings at each step in the tests.
Here are the steps I took and results I obtained:
After video initiated and working:
=======================
Reserved Mappings
Global IP Address Internal IP Address Transport Type Port Number
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.7 tcp 9049
===============================
Disappears when video cancelled
===============================
After voice initiated but fails:
================================
Reserved Mappings
Global IP Address Internal IP Address Transport Type Port Number
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.2 udp 14419
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.2 tcp 13711
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.7 udp 14423
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.7 tcp 14460
When both ends exit MSN Messenger:
==================================
Reserved Mappings
Global IP Address Internal IP Address Transport Type Port Number
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.2 udp 14419
75.177.107.61 192.168.7.2 tcp 13711
These mappings do not disappear until I reboot.
I believe that all this goes to prove that UPNP / Discovery components in
WinXP are not required as Messenger is clearly successfully opening ports on
the router without them.
The only dent in my theory is that, in doing this, video works but voice
doesn't.
Also, I wonder why voice activated 4 ports rather than 2 (er.. 2 because 2
are needed for a 2 way (duplex) conversation?)
What does this tell you Jonathan, other than that I've frittered a lot of my
valuable (huh?) time on this problem?
Look forward to hearing your comments on my findings.
With kind regards,
Pete
-------------------------------------------
Peter Boulton,
Data Perceptions,
Creator of the Web Update Wizard - add update over the web to your software
with 1 line of code!
Visit us on the web....at... http://www.PowerProgrammer.co.uk
-------------------------------------------
"Lucky One" <a...@dot.com> wrote in message
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