KB938371 Appears To Block Updates

[jcaudle]

I have Vista home premium sp1 installed. Also have KB938371 installed
successfully on 4/9/2008. Since then the only updates that install are
Defender definitions. All security updates will not install regardless of
how many times I try. Suggestions as to allow these updates to install would
be greatly appreciated. The updates that refuse to install are KB947864,
KB941693, & KB948590.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

The update is not installed successfully, you receive a message, and the
computer restarts when you try to install an update in Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949358

Unlimited installation and compatibility support for Vista SP1 is available
at no charge through 18 Mar-09
• US:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11274&gprid=500921
• CA:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-ca&prid=11274&gprid=500921
• UK:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-gb&prid=11274&gprid=500921
• AU:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-au&prid=11274&gprid=500921
• Other: http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx | select Windows
Vista | select Windows Vista Service Pack 1

Start a free Windows Update support incident request:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=6527

Support for Windows Update:
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/wusupport

For home users, no-charge support is available by calling 1-866-PCSAFETY in
the United States and in Canada or by contacting your local Microsoft
subsidiary. There is no-charge for support calls that are associated with
security updates.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.net

[jcaudle]

Not the activity I am having. The computer does not restart. Just returns
an error 800B0100 when using Windows Update. What is odd is that KB938371
appears in the listing of installed successful updates but also appears on
the list of important updates. Have tried installing each update
individually but no luck. When I click update the progress bar shows that
nothing is being transferred. Have tried turning off firewall and anti virus
but still same behavior. Something is blocking all security updates but
allowing non-security updates to proceed normally.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

<QP>
The original release of Update 938371 updates several internal components
that Windows Vista requires in order to install or to remove Windows Vista
Service Pack 1 more reliably. This update must be applied separately before
you install Windows Vista SP1 to make sure that Windows Vista SP1 can be
installed or removed from the computer.
</QP>
Source: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938371

>>> I have Vista home premium sp1 installed.

Did Windows Update offer the machine Vista SP1 or did you download/install
it manually?

Looks like you're in a Catch-22 situation: You can't install 938371 because
Vista SP1 is already installed but you may not be able to install any other
updates because 938371 isn't installed.

Unless you want to see if uninstalling SP1 resolves the problem (cf.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948537), I'd recommend opening a free
support incident. See links in my previous reply.
--
~PA Bear

[jcaudle]

I downloaded a separate file for SP1. I also chatted with MS today for about
4 hours. No luck in fixing the problem. Unfortunately I cannot do a system
restore since the restore point does not seem to exist even if I click go
back 5 days. Is there a way to go back further?

[jcaudle]

In addition I did chat with support and they had me uninstalling my
firewall, anti-virus, etc. Left me with a unprotected computer that I
immediately installed zone alarm and AVG antivirus. I believe they are used
to handling such problems and not what really is happening. Your reply is
most informative.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

> I downloaded a separate file for SP1.

I was afraid you'd say that.

> In addition I did chat with support and they had me uninstalling my
> firewall, anti-virus, etc. Left me with a unprotected computer that I
> immediately installed zone alarm and AVG antivirus.

<groan> Now it's gotten even more complicated. Try the following:

1. Uninstall ZoneAlarm via Add/Remove Programs then *immediately* enable the
Windows Firewall. Do NOT connect the machine to the internet without a
firewall!

2a. If you uninstalled a Norton application at the behest of MS Support,
download/run this removal tool & reboot twice:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

2b. If you uninstalled a McAfee application at the behest of MS Support,
download/run this removal tool & reboot twice:
http://service.mcafee.com/FAQDocument.aspx?id=107083&lc=4105&partner=McAfee&type=TS&ia=1

3. Temporarily disable AVG Anti-Virus.

4. Uninstall Vista SP1 via Add/Remove Programs
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948537 Method 1).

5. Reboot twice. (Yes, again.)

6. Now see if you can install KB947864, KB941693, KB948590 and any other
updates offered by Windows Update.

NB: Do NOT install Vista SP1 unless it's offered by Windows Update! See
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343
--
~PA Bear

jcaudle wrote:
<paste>

> I downloaded a separate file for SP1. I also chatted with MS today for
> about 4 hours. No luck in fixing the problem. Unfortunately I cannot do
> a
> system restore since the restore point does not seem to exist even if I
> click go back 5 days. Is there a way to go back further?

</paste>

>> jcaudle wrote:
>>> Not the activity I am having. The computer does not restart. Just
>>> returns
>>> an error 800B0100 when using Windows Update. What is odd is that
>>> KB938371
>>> appears in the listing of installed successful updates but also appears
>>> on
>>> the list of important updates. Have tried installing each update
>>> individually but no luck. When I click update the progress bar shows
>>> that
>>> nothing is being transferred. Have tried turning off firewall and anti
>>> virus but still same behavior. Something is blocking all security
>>> updates
>>> but allowing non-security updates to proceed normally.
>>>
>>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
>>>> The update is not installed successfully, you receive a message, and
>>>> the
>>>> computer restarts when you try to install an update in Windows Vista
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949358
>>>>
>>>> Unlimited installation and compatibility support for Vista SP1 is
>>>> available
>>>> at no charge through 18 Mar-09

>>>> • US:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>> • CA:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-ca&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>> • UK:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-gb&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>> • AU:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-au&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>> • Other: http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx | select

[jcaudle]

Did all you recommended. Got to the part about using Method #1 to uninstall
SP1. Used the MS instructions for getting to the uninstall screen. For some
reason it is not on the list of installed updates. Very vexing. Thanks so
much for giving your time to assist with this problem.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Did the MS Support tech have you try (or have your tried) using Method 2:
Use System Restore | Offline System Restore in
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948537?

I'm afraid your best bet would be to continue with the free Vista SP1
support option(s) available to you. If necessary, being a new Support
Incident.

Please keep us posted.

[jcaudle]

Method 2 requires a Vista restore disk. Since the HP restore disks reformat
the hard drive and return the computer to it's original configuration I
think, for now, that I will just live with it. I don't have the time right
now to redo about 1 week of work re-installing all my programs. At least my
machine is locked down real good with firewall, antivirus, and highly secured
wireless connection with max password security. I think MS support is not
used to or seen this type of problem as I have noticed in similiar posts.
Thanks for your help.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

I encourage you to continue your attempts to resolve this problem via MS
Support or use the HP Recovery disks: I have a feeling you won't be able to
install any future critical security updates if you don't, in which case
your security's out the window.
--
~PA Bear

>>>>>>>> • US:
>>>>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>>>>>> • CA:
>>>>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-ca&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>>>>>> • UK:
>>>>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-gb&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>>>>>> • AU:
>>>>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-au&prid=11274&gprid=500921
>>>>>>>> • Other: http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx |

[jcaudle]

I talked with HP support. There is absolutely no way to reinstall Vista
without wiping out the hard drive and returning to the original factory
configuration. I found out why I cannot go back to system restore prior to
the date I installed SP1. Apparently SP1 only saves about 10 days of restore
points and wipes out anything prior to the SP1 restore point. When you get
past 10 days you lose the SP1 restore point. Spoke again with MS support
today and they do not have a clue. They are still hung up on firewalls and
antivirus interfering.

I noteiced that Best Buy had Vista along with SP1 on sale for $99. Is worth
it to reinstall and spend the $99 rather than killing the entire hard drive
with dozens of programs I already have installed.

[jcaudle]

Okay, as I noted I went ahead and bought a Vista upgrade with SP1 from Best
Buy. Installed it today and now everything is fixed. Shame on me for not
following the instructions from HP as to EXACTLY what had to be installed
prior to the SP1 update. Sooooo, I'm out $110 but everything is running
great now. I know it seems strange that I have Vista Home Premium with SP1
installed and buy Vista Home Premium with SP1 upgrade included it sounds
redundant. However, that is what it took to get out of the catch 22 that I
was caught in. I know that the upgrade is meant for XP and Vista Basic but I
still gave it a try and it worked flawlessly. Just selected upgrade instead
of clean install which would have wiped out the hard drive and started over
from scratch.

Did try a couple of more times to get help from MS support and they still
have tunnel vision as to everything is caused by antivirus or firewalls. I
guess that is 99% of what they deal with along with virus and spyware
problems. But they were nice and even called me back twice from God knows
where to make sure I was satisfied. When I told them what I thought was
necessary they still did not seem to understand but were very concerned that
they could not resolve the problem so I give them an A+ for trying but an F
for actual help in getting the problem solved.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Thanks for your feedback. I think everyone learned some lessons here.

And how would you grade the free support you got in this newsgroup, in
comparison?

[John]

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>> I downloaded a separate file for SP1.
>
> I was afraid you'd say that.
>

> NB: Do NOT install Vista SP1 unless it's offered by Windows Update! See
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343

Why is it a bad idea to try installing SP1 from the download of the full
installer package? I haven't tried this yet, but I have downloaded the
installer. I have a Dell Laptop which is giving me fits because the
KB938371 update refuses to install. I'm getting error code 80073715.

I've been working with another MS MVP for several weeks trying to
resolve this without success. See the thread in this newsgroup starting
on 3/31/08 with subject "Vista update KB938371 fails to install. error
code 80073715".

Quoting from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938371 it says:
"If you decide to install Windows Vista SP1 by using the stand-alone
installer instead of by using Windows Update, you will not have to
install the prerequisite updates separately. The prerequisite updates
will be installed by the stand-alone installer if they are necessary."

This statement suggests that it is OK to try to install SP1 from the
installer, and that it will install the prerequisite updates if
necessary. I'm about at the point of trying that because nothing else
I've tried has worked. Thanks in advance for your help. I've found the
MS MVPs to be a great source of help many times in the past.

Regards,

John
--
Please reply in this newsgroup. I never post my true email address to
prevent spam. Thank you.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Thanks for your feedback.

Your original thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/170732e39255e39d

> Why is it a bad idea to try installing SP1 from the download of the full
> installer package?

For example, see the seven various Causes in...

Windows Vista Service Pack 1 [may not be] available for installation from
Windows Update and is not offered by Automatic Updates:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343

Since you have not been able to install KB938371, and since KB938371 is a
Vista SP1 Prerequisite update, and since there may be other Vista SP1
Prerequisite updates the machine needs, and since Vista SP1 is not installed
yet, you qualify for free MS support (as my colleague MowGreen has pointed
out in your original thread here). You've been fighting this battle since
31 Mar-08. If I were in your shoes, I would have opened a free support
incident a month ago.

> I don't know if this is relevant, but this Dell Notebook has crashed with
> the BSOD several times...

Then again, you may be beating your head against a different wall
altogether. I'd contact Dell Support and get this BSOD issue resolved
before attempting to install KB938371 or Vista SP1, John.

Good luck!

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

John wrote:
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>> <snip>

[Harry Johnston [MVP]]

John wrote:

>> NB: Do NOT install Vista SP1 unless it's offered by Windows Update!
>> See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343
>
> Why is it a bad idea to try installing SP1 from the download of the full
> installer package?

If SP1 is not being offered via Windows Update, there is probably a reason. In
most cases this is because of an incompatible device driver, which could cause
your system to fail if you install SP1.

> I have a Dell Laptop which is giving me fits because the
> KB938371 update refuses to install. I'm getting error code 80073715.

OK, so in this case SP1 isn't being offered because the prerequisite update
isn't installing. (Of course, there might /also/ be an incompatible driver;
there's no way to tell until you get the prerequisite installed!)

I'd suggest you open a free support ticket with Microsoft. See PA Bear's second
post to this thread for the contact details.

Harry.

[jcaudle]

Assistance in this newsgroup A+. In particular with the observation that I
was in a catch 22 situation regarding the install of SP1 and the prequesite
update. F for Microsoft support with their tunnel vision.

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Thank you.

[John]

Harry Johnston [MVP] wrote:
> John wrote:
>
>>> NB: Do NOT install Vista SP1 unless it's offered by Windows Update!
>>> See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343
>>
>> Why is it a bad idea to try installing SP1 from the download of the full
>> installer package?
>
> If SP1 is not being offered via Windows Update, there is probably a
> reason. In most cases this is because of an incompatible device driver,
> which could cause your system to fail if you install SP1.
>

> I'd suggest you open a free support ticket with Microsoft. See PA
> Bear's second post to this thread for the contact details.
>
> Harry.

I resolved the issue of KB938371 not installing some time ago. I have
installed all critical updates through the July releases, and I am
seeing the August releases but have not yet installed them.

My main problem now is that Windows Update STILL is not offering me
Vista SP1.

I initiated an online help session with Microsoft support about a month
ago. I spent two hours online with them, and allowed the tech support
person to take control of my computer. He was unable to resolve the
issue. He thought the problem might be the McAfee Security Suite I had
installed. He asked me to remove it and then come back for another
online support session.

After removing the McAfee program, I went online with Microsoft support
again today. This time the support person did not ask to take control of
my computer. He was unable to solve the problem. He suggested I download
the full SP1 installer package and use that. I told him I had been
warned by the MVPs in this newsgroup *NOT* to do that. He said I should
do it anyway, that the worst that could happen is that it would not
install if there was still a serious problem and my system would not be
harmed. Who am I to believe now?

I *HAVE* downloaded the full SP1 installer package, but I am very
reluctant to try to run it after the warnings I have received here.

Suggestions? Thanks!

[Harry Johnston [MVP]]

John wrote:

> My main problem now is that Windows Update STILL is not offering me

> Vista SP1. [...]

>
> After removing the McAfee program, I went online with Microsoft support

> again today. [...] He said I should

> do it anyway, that the worst that could happen is that it would not
> install if there was still a serious problem and my system would not be
> harmed.

Well, no, the worst that could happen is that the OS will be irreperably
FUBARed. It's not as though this hasn't happened, though admittedly the odds
are probably in your favour.

If you do decide to try the full installer, make absolutely certain you have all
of your data backed up and know where your install media are. If things go
badly, the quickest and most reliable way to recover may be to erase the hard
disk and reinstall the OS.

Harry.

--
Boycott Beijing 2008 http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=174

[John]

Since my message of August 20, I very carefully went through the
information contained in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948343

I found that I had two of the outdated drivers that would prevent SP1
from being offered. I updated one of the drivers and removed the other
because it appears that no update is available. This is an issue with a
Dell-specific driver. After this, SP1 was *still* not being offered. I
re-installed the driver I had removed as I needed it to have sound.

This morning, I installed all of the August updates. After re-booting,
*NOW* Windows Update is *finally* offering me Vista SP1!!! Even though I
still have a Dell audio driver which *should* have prevented SP1 from
being offered.

This is the second time that a problem with a Vista upgrade has just
gone away after installing other updates from Microsoft. (The first one
was KB938371 which was offered but refused to install for *months* until
some other MS update finally resolved that issue. KB938371 was an update
that was *required* before SP1 could be installed.)

On the one hand, it's great that these problems have been resolved. On
the other hand, it's very annoying that I spent hours working on both of
these, including interacting with MS support, without any resolution.