What backup software do you use and why?
Rich
interested to hear what software you are using, and why do you use it?
BTW On my servers I use a mix of NTBackup and Symantec Backup Exec v10 &
v11. Have also tried Acronis True Image Server. And am not in love with any
of them ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
Holz
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> And am not in love with any
> of them ;-)
What's wrong with what you use and what do you not like?
--
:-)
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]
software for a variety of reasons - it's quick, reliable, simple to
configure, and it just works well all the time. I do a full backup of each
server once a week, with 4 incremental backups per day, to a storage server
on the network. At night, the ShadowProtect backups copy out to a High Rely
external SATA drive for offsite storage. I recommend downloading the trial
version and using it for a couple of days, after which you'll be sold on it.
It won't interfere with any other backup software you may be using now, so
the trial isn't much work. It'll uninstall cleanly if you don't like it, or
you can just buy a copy and add the license key to the existing install.
(One thing to note is that it doesn't support tape).
http://www.storagecraft.com/
On my SBS, I'm using Arcserve 11.5. The primary reason why I'm using it is
because I bought it prior to the release of SBS 2003. IMO the backup in SBS
2003 is so good, I would not spend money for a 3rd party backup solution if
I hadn't owned it previously. Another reason for Arcserve is brick level
Exchange backup. Again with Exchange 2003 and recovery storage groups, not
something I would spend money on. Arcserve on my SBS is working fine, which
is the only reason I have not abandoned it in favor of the ShadowProtect SBS
version.
As an aside, I've had an absolutely horrible experience with Arcserve on my
64-bit Windows 2003 Storage Server. IMO, although their support quality has
improved greatly over the years, their software quality has room for
improvement.
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eOvvRXob...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
dan
in your experience? I use Acronis but not ShadowProtect and I'm curious what
it does better than Acronis. Thanks.
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:D5DBCD4D-10F8-472B...@microsoft.com...
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
however if you want something more than the SBS Wizard Backup (Which Works
BTW)
The ShadowProtect for SBS is Cheaper than the Acronis
ShadowProtect Small Business Server Edition 3.1 $495.00 USD
http://store.storagecraft.com:80/acb/stores/1/ShadowProtect-Small-Business-Server-Edition-30-P24C8.aspx
I actually do both myself SBS backup and Shadowprotect.
And yes you can get a free 30 trial.
The only Difference between the SBS and NON sbs is that the SBS version will
only install on SBS.
And Cheaper of course.
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"dan" <dan(removethis)@westerveltconsulting.com> wrote in message
news:%23WWvmOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]
although I know it's a well respected product. I was having ongoing backup
issues with a member server, and someone introduced me to the ShadowProtect
crew at SMBNation in 2006. I installed the trial when I got back, and I've
been using it ever since. It's really the only thing I've used other than
Arcserve and SBS Backup.
If you're interested in trying it, I'm pretty sure you can just go to their
web site and download the trial. I ran it on a test server for a while, so
I can confirm that it installs and uninstalls cleanly, at least in my
experience.
One other thing - does Acronis have hardware-independent restore?
ShadowProtect has a thing where you can restore the backups to a VM, or to
different hardware, by booting off the ShadowProtect disk and configuring
the drivers for the new hardware as step 1 in the restore process. I have
not had to use this, but I've seen it demonstrated where someone restored a
server to a VM on a laptop and got up and running relatively quickly. I
sleep better knowing that if a server goes down, I'll be able to restore it
to whatever hardware I have on hand, and that the office will be running
while we wait for replacement hardware.
"dan" <dan(removethis)@westerveltconsulting.com> wrote in message
news:%23WWvmOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
dan
restore capability, but I haven't tested it.
Maybe someone else monitoring the newsgroup has.
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:FE63A60C-121E-4F5D...@microsoft.com...
Rich
doesn't allow brick level mail restore - and also seems to have the tendency
to stop working withotu warning and for no reason (in the case of tape
backups anyway). Tis a bit clunky to use too.
2. Backup Exec is great for a straight forward backup to tape, but my
experience of using network folders on a NAS have been less than
satisfactory - much corruption of network backup destinations. It's also
very complicated to setup - for me personally a backup system should be
extremely simple and foolproof ;-) Oh, yes and it's now owned by Symantec so
it's probably going to end up being ruined by them.
3. Acronis - I really like Acronis and use True Image a lot for quickly
grabbing images - it also supports imaging to and from network devices
really well - even during bare metal restores. I have tried the server
version though and am trying to use it to backup to tape. It's giving lots
of tape errors, whereas Backup Exec on the same box works fine. I'd like to
get this working well, but ShadowProtect sounds like it's worth
investigating.
IMHO ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"Holz" <ho...@my-laptop.nowhere> wrote in message
news:20080213133...@IT01.ladco.local...
Holz
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 1. NTBackup is great for a free product, backs up Exchange nicely.
> But it doesn't allow brick level mail restore - and also seems to
> have the tendency to stop working withotu warning and for no reason
> (in the case of tape backups anyway). Tis a bit clunky to use too.
I use ntbackup only for the system state & C drive to disk. It is the
fastest way to recover from bad installations.
>
> 2. Backup Exec is great for a straight forward backup to tape, but my
> experience of using network folders on a NAS have been less than
> satisfactory - much corruption of network backup destinations. It's
> also very complicated to setup - for me personally a backup system
> should be extremely simple and foolproof ;-) Oh, yes and it's now
> owned by Symantec so it's probably going to end up being ruined by
> them.
Follproof depends on the scenario / $$$. As a rule I always extract all
the mailboxes using exmerge, and have one outlook open all night
running a VBA script to backup public folders to an external disk. If
push comes to shove, I can restore them all by hand after re-building
the server. At a different client, I have the services stopped and
MDBDATA directory copied to an external drive. I also have a client
where Exchange is running on a 2003 virtual machine on Linux host,
snapshots taken twice a day, clone every night. If I need to recover I
use the clone or snapshot.
>
> 3. Acronis - I really like Acronis and use True Image a lot for
> quickly grabbing images - it also supports imaging to and from
> network devices really well - even during bare metal restores. I
> have tried the server version though and am trying to use it to
> backup to tape. It's giving lots of tape errors, whereas Backup Exec
> on the same box works fine. I'd like to get this working well, but
> ShadowProtect sounds like it's worth investigating.
I use Acronis in house, not to tape. I let the tape pick up the images.
I guess what I am trying to say, there is no on size fits all, it is
what you see as a must have.
My 4 cents :-), since it cost 2 cents to make one!
>
> IMHO ;-)
>
--
:-)
![John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVWOYAay90DOUsWewtYlDjgN9CFCh5iPQfrfLV3urC1sY44UA=s40-c)
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]
hardware. Big difference, as stated here, Shadowprotect has an SBS Version
that costs $495. Acronis does not have and SBS version, which I have
suggested to them many times. You will need to purchase Acronis True Image
Echo Server for Windows $699 and if you want the independent hadware feature
you need Acronis True Image Echo Server Universal Restore $299. You must
also purchase maintenance for the first year $140. Add it up, $1138. Hard
sell to SMB customers.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:%23Obblkp...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Rich
it's been pretty glitchy. Have managed to backup a single volume, but trying
to backup 2 volumes gives non specific tape errors.
Think I'll give up on that idea as I was looking for something to work 'out
of the box'.
Will definitely look at Shadow Protect even though it won't fulfill the
straight to tape option.
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OiwFYQsb...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]
Does it give you any errors?
BTW: For the most bang for your dollar and speed in restoring, I would
suggest External USB hard drive for images. Much faster than tape and the
cost is minimal. Besides, you do not have to change a tape every day which
is handy if you have someone who forgets or you go on vacation.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OfQbreBc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Kenneth Porter
> BTW: For the most bang for your dollar and speed in restoring, I
> would suggest External USB hard drive for images. Much faster than
> tape and the cost is minimal. Besides, you do not have to change a
> tape every day which is handy if you have someone who forgets or you
> go on vacation.
That's the path I've taken for a few years, since portable drives got so
big and so cheap. At one point I thought the new high-capacity DVD formats
(eg. Blu-Ray) would be the next backup medium but they took so long getting
to market that portable hard drives blew past them.
Under what circumstances does tape gain an advantage? I've always found it
awkward to use.
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]
USB. For most small businesses they cannot afford the cost of LTO, so
external hard drive or NAS device makes sense. The Netgear Storage Central
Turbo NAS is very affordable and provides redundancy.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A458FF92BC69s...@207.46.248.16...
Leythos
jcoli...@hotmail.com says...
> Hmm, I have used Acronis to backup to tape successfully for months now.
> Does it give you any errors?
>
> BTW: For the most bang for your dollar and speed in restoring, I would
> suggest External USB hard drive for images. Much faster than tape and the
> cost is minimal. Besides, you do not have to change a tape every day which
> is handy if you have someone who forgets or you go on vacation.
And you don't have to change the tape every day anyway - at least no
more than you would with a USB drive.
If you use a USB drive and you don't change them out frequently then you
are playing with fire. A USB drive can only hold so much, if that's your
backup device and it dies in a fire, with your server, you're dead in
the water. Most safety-deposit boxes will hold a backup TAPE without
problem.
A tape is able to hold several backups on one tape - depending on the
size of the tape. A tape can be faster than a USB drive. USB drives can
fault a server as you connect/disconnect the device.
I've had many tape drives in customers network for decades, they work
great.
I've had a few customers that used USB drives and while they are cheap,
if you consider the requirement to have off-site holding of backups, and
to rotate backups, the cost is not that much different.
For SOX requirements we have one customer that requires 1 tape per day
(M-F) for each day of the month, one tape per month, one tape per year,
for multiple years.
25+12+3 = 40 tapes, would be the same for USB drives if we used them.
LTO-2 Drive (scsi) and Tapes cost them $2600.
40 USB 400GB drives would cost them over $4000.
Now, take the example of a typical client:
5 tapes, M-F, 1 Saturday tape/week 5, 1 monthly tape/month 12
That's 22 tapes.
Tape Drive is $960, tapes are $29 each = $1,600 (about)
USB Drives about $120 for real cheap units = $2,640 (about)
So, a LTO tape solution is cheaper than the same USB solution, by $1000,
for the same level of data security.
Now, if your data doesn't mean that much to you and you can use two USB
drives, say around 500GB, getting 2 or 3 backups per drive, then you can
spend about $450 for good ones (total) and have a choice of swapping
them daily or just every other day, or not at all....
I'll stick with the security of tape.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
Leythos
jcoli...@hotmail.com says...
> High Speeed tape devices like LTO can be just as fast if not faster than
> USB. For most small businesses they cannot afford the cost of LTO, so
> external hard drive or NAS device makes sense. The Netgear Storage Central
> Turbo NAS is very affordable and provides redundancy.
$960 for the LTO-2 drive
$ 30 for tapes
Server should already have the proper interface (SATA/SCSI) since there
are LTO-2 drives that can use SCSI or SATA....
A NAS with RAID-1/5, and you have to have two of them, since you always
want one backup kept off-site for proper disaster recovery planning...
1TB NAS drives, not the cheap junk ones, are about $500 each, so that
means you just spent $1000 for two backup devices that are reliable.
So, $1050 for a tape backup solution where you can keep adding tapes for
$30 each, or a $1000 backup solution where it cost you $500 each to add
on additional backup media?
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
Cost is not the issue IMO it's reliability.
Not alone the Rotation, Head cleaning, Proper tape storage.
Most small business don't want to mess with all this.
And usually leave this MOST important job to the least Skilled person to do
it.
In the next version of SBS2008 TAPE backup is not supported with the wizard
Which IMO even emphasizes TAPE is Dead With Microsoft.
You are welcome to fuss with it, but IMO it's too much work for something so
unreliable.
Price means nothing if the backup is no good.
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222000739...@Adfree.usenet.com...
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> I've had tapes fail too many times over the last 20 years.
> Cost is not the issue IMO it's reliability.
Reliability is higher on tape than USB drive.
If you don't check the backups on either method then you're sure to find
it didn't work when you need it.
Tapes are normally more available and easier to store than USB drives.
Tapes don't have electrical parts that can screw up the server.
Tapes do go bad, normally after years of use.
> Not alone the Rotation, Head cleaning, Proper tape storage.
And the rotation should be followed on USB devices also - if you are
only using 1 USB drive then you're going to have a complete and
catastrophic failure at some point and not have a good backup.
If you're going to use a single USB drive then you might as well have
just installed a swappable HD and use it for backups.
Head cleaning - lets see, CLEAN light comes on, you insert cleaning
tape, it ejects after cleaning, you put next tape in drive.
Storge - a LOT easier to store tapes than USB Drives.
> Most small business don't want to mess with all this.
Most businesses don't have a clue as to how little data protection they
actually have by using a drive connected to the server as their backup
media.
> And usually leave this MOST important job to the least Skilled person to do
> it.
And a tape does not require logging into the server, just replace the
ejected tape.
A USB Drive requires that the user disconnect the cable from the server
or drive and reconnect it - possibly causing a power condition that I
have seen crash servers.
> In the next version of SBS2008 TAPE backup is not supported with the wizard
> Which IMO even emphasizes TAPE is Dead With Microsoft.
And since when has MS ever been the defining source on what is best for
anyone. You know the expression, the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and the
Microsoft Way.
> You are welcome to fuss with it, but IMO it's too much work for something so
> unreliable.
> Price means nothing if the backup is no good.
And to do a proper backup, being able to take media off-site, without
chance of crashing the server, a tape is the best solution.
If you have 5 USB drives to rotate, and you get good ones, at $250 each,
that's $1000. So, now you're into having to store large items, having to
connect/disconnect them, to make sure they always map as the same drive
letter..... and you're not really any cheaper than LTO-2.... Oh, and you
have less reliability with USB drives.
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
In that time all the clients that were on TAPE and swore by it
Their units have failed and then they swore at TAPE units.
I've had too many tapes fail and Zero USB backups fail.
Like I said Even Microsoft has realizes TAPE is dead
And they are usually the last to recognize obsolete hardware.
An unreliable tape unit IMO is not a solution but money wasted.
You are welcome with your consulting practice to keep pushing Tape on
people.
I've just find it not reliable enough and not worth the risk...
We will just have to differ in consulting that's all. :)
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.22210494f...@Adfree.usenet.com...
SuperGumby [SBS MVP]
Yes, I test my backups. If you don't test restore you don't backup.
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:u7mb3MP...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
You said a USB Drive has electrical parts that Screw up a Server?
Where do you get this Data From?
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.22210494f...@Adfree.usenet.com...
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> I've been using USB's for over 5 years now.
> In that time all the clients that were on TAPE and swore by it
> Their units have failed and then they swore at TAPE units.
>
> I've had too many tapes fail and Zero USB backups fail.
> Like I said Even Microsoft has realizes TAPE is dead
> And they are usually the last to recognize obsolete hardware.
>
> An unreliable tape unit IMO is not a solution but money wasted.
> You are welcome with your consulting practice to keep pushing Tape on
> people.
> I've just find it not reliable enough and not worth the risk...
>
> We will just have to differ in consulting that's all. :)
In 5 years I've seen about 80 drive fail, 1 tape drive that was 6 years
old failed, many tapes have failed, but they are cheap to replace.
As for USB drives, I've seen them last about 1 to 2 years at best.
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> Wait as Sec?
> You said a USB Drive has electrical parts that Screw up a Server?
>
> Where do you get this Data From?
I've seen a drive connected to a server BSOD it, several times. I've
also seen drives disconnected that were not completely done writing and
cause the data to be corrupted - impatient users.
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
News to me, I guess we should take out Hard drives out of servers Laugh.
Boy Mark some of the things that happen to you is weird... LOL
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222142f82...@Adfree.usenet.com...
Jim Behning SBS MVP
sample than some. More accounts with more impatient users presents a
greater chance of of seeing goofups. Not unlike someone who says they
never have seen that but they only manage two servers. The data set is
way too small to have any authority. What you see is what you know.
I have had boot problems with usb drives but a dedicated usb card
solved that problem. Otherwise usb has been ok to me. So has DLT.
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> Wow a hard drive mess up a server
> News to me, I guess we should take out Hard drives out of servers Laugh.
>
> Boy Mark some of the things that happen to you is weird... LOL
No, it's no that it's a "Hard Drive", it's that it's a USB device that
has a POWER connection that can cause problems.
Leythos
jimbe...@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com says...
> I suspect that Leythos might see more weird stuff as he has a larger
> sample than some. More accounts with more impatient users presents a
> greater chance of of seeing goofups. Not unlike someone who says they
> never have seen that but they only manage two servers. The data set is
> way too small to have any authority. What you see is what you know.
>
> I have had boot problems with usb drives but a dedicated usb card
> solved that problem. Otherwise usb has been ok to me. So has DLT.
I don't know his base, but we work with business all over the US,
somehow they just find us through talking with other customers in the
same vertical.
The USB fault is rare, very rare, but it's happened enough that I look
at USB as the black plague of death and avoid USB devices as much as
possible. If I'm going to use a USB device I make sure the plan is to
leave it connected at all times.
I was at a new clients last week, they have a USB Tape drive, using
Symantec BE 11, and they were complaining that the drive was not
ejecting the tapes any more (our first onsite visit - fun), but they
could not tell why - it was that the USB HP External drive was no longer
online as far as Symantec could tell - and it turns out the drive was no
on the same power as the Server, so a power blip would take it down
while not taking down the server....
The most common USB Drive problem I've seen is when you format it NTFS,
assign it a drive letter, like "X", and a month later, while all had
been working well, it's now drive E/F/G (next free drive letter), and
the backups are failing since X no longer exists....
Boot problems - don't get me started. Many ASUS Server boards and
several Intel server boards, back before Core 2 boards, when we just had
the Xeon CPU's, would not boot properly with a USB drive online - you
either had to turn it off or disconnect it. After a couple months of
complaining a BIOS flash resolved that - but the tape drive systems kept
working and have never caused me any problems in all these years.
So, what it comes down to is your backup requirements:
1) Need lots of media in order to recover at any point in a month, must
record EOM (end of month), and must record EOY (end of year) - then tape
is cheaper than USB
2) Need to record daily during a month - tape is cheaper than USB
3) Just need to go back 1-5 backups, don't really need to keep media
office site - USB is cheaper than tape.
4) Just need to backup 1-5 backups and only need to keep 1 or 2 media
off site - USB is cheaper to about the same cost as tape.
5) Don't need to keep backups off site, don't care to rotate backup
media, a large hard drive in server is cheaper than USB/Tape.
Rich
Have just received a response from Acronis (nice people) with some updated
drivers to try.
Saying that, I might give up on the concept anyway as it occurs to me that
in backing up an image to tape (or anywhere else) I'm also backing up swap
files, temp files and all manner of junk that isn't needed for a restore. If
WSUS is present would be an extra 20Gb or so in the backup.
...also backing up via image doesn't flush Exchange server log files so they
start to build up too.
I'm not sure imaging is a realistic means of backing up as a regular offsite
backup strategy.
My main reason for still using tape is for ease of creating off-site
backups. I still think external HDDs are a bit chunky in comparison to tape.
Reading many of the great posts here it seems there still isn't a 'silver
bullet' when it comes to backups ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23GcD5wB...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
WHS backup will go a very, very long way.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%23ihWSAn...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
GeraldF
nos...@nowhere.com says...
> Hi John,
>
> Have just received a response from Acronis (nice people) with some updated
> drivers to try.
>
> Saying that, I might give up on the concept anyway as it occurs to me that
> in backing up an image to tape (or anywhere else) I'm also backing up swap
> files, temp files and all manner of junk that isn't needed for a restore. If
> WSUS is present would be an extra 20Gb or so in the backup.
>
> ...also backing up via image doesn't flush Exchange server log files so they
> start to build up too.
>
system to the way it was. Acronis is incredibly fast in
accomplishing this. If you backup to a system drive the
restore can be very quick indeed-minutes in fact. I
backup to a Raid logical partition and to my USB 3
different USB drives. Each media is QOD. If the system
failed I could restore from the Raid and then any recent
files from the USB. Acronis will also allow the restore
of individual files.
Give up on tape, it is too slow.
I have had my Server up and operating with Acronis in 15
minutes, and I have 3-100 GB drives. (USB would take an
hour, and tape hours)
Kenneth Porter
@Adfree.usenet.com:
> No, it's no that it's a "Hard Drive", it's that it's a USB device that
> has a POWER connection that can cause problems.
Sounds like connector issues. Hot plugging should be old hat, especially in
the server field where removable drives have been far more common than in
workstations. Apparently something was wrong in the USB hot plug
implementation on those systems. I'd be interested in knowing if it was
systemic to the particular chipset (either host or device) or if it was a
manufacturing glitch in the connectors.
Kenneth Porter
news:MPG.2222023c8...@Adfree.usenet.com:
> I was at a new clients last week, they have a USB Tape drive, using
> Symantec BE 11, and they were complaining that the drive was not
> ejecting the tapes any more (our first onsite visit - fun), but they
> could not tell why - it was that the USB HP External drive was no
> longer online as far as Symantec could tell - and it turns out the
> drive was no on the same power as the Server, so a power blip would
> take it down while not taking down the server....
That sounds familiar. I use a Logitech G15 keyboard (the orignal with
all the macro buttons) through an IOTech KVM's "disk" port to multiple
workstations. I use the disk port because it acts like a hub instead of
a keyboard repeater, allowing the full functionality of the keyboard to
be seen by all the workstations. Switching hosts effectively performs a
USB disconnect/reconnect of the slave devices (my keyboard and mouse).
But often times I lose the regular Enter key (the numpad one remains
active). Unplugging the keyboard from the KVM and plugging it back in
resets it back to normal operation.
Obviously a reconnect bug in the keyboard firmware. (That's probably not
a highly-tested code path.)
> The most common USB Drive problem I've seen is when you format it
> NTFS, assign it a drive letter, like "X", and a month later, while all
> had been working well, it's now drive E/F/G (next free drive letter),
> and the backups are failing since X no longer exists....
That sounds like a MS software bug. Unless the drive ID used as a key in
the registry to find its preferred drive letter is somehow getting
corrupted.
> Boot problems - don't get me started. Many ASUS Server boards and
> several Intel server boards, back before Core 2 boards, when we just
> had the Xeon CPU's, would not boot properly with a USB drive online -
> you either had to turn it off or disconnect it. After a couple months
> of complaining a BIOS flash resolved that - but the tape drive systems
> kept working and have never caused me any problems in all these years.
Alas, more software. USB has actually come quite far since it's initial
quite buggy release with Win98, but obviously a lot of low-level code is
still pretty shakey.
Kenneth Porter
@Adfree.usenet.com:
> In 5 years I've seen about 80 drive fail, 1 tape drive that was 6 years
> old failed, many tapes have failed, but they are cheap to replace.
>
> As for USB drives, I've seen them last about 1 to 2 years at best.
I wonder how the handling and storage requirements compare? I have a couple
of machine shop clients, so their environment is positively filthy. And
they don't have ultra-clean space with good temperature control to keep a
server. (Even offices suffer a lot of paper dust. Combine that with an
omnipresent fine mist of oily coolant....) Tapes and drives wouldn't last
long. Hard drives are fairly well sealed and seem more tolerant of that
situation. OTOH, hard drives are much more sensitive to shock, so you have
to treat them like eggs.
(I recall a few years ago having one shop computer, a PS/2 Model 80,
failing. We pulled it open and blue coolant came pouring out of it. One of
the Microchannel cards had come loose. We reseated all the cards, mopped
the box out, and it came right back up.)
Leythos
shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com says...
Different vendors boards. While not common, almost rare, it's possible
to short (yea, not proper use of the term) one depending on how gentile
you are with the connector.
Leythos
shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com says...
One of my clients is a LARGE machining company, it's standard for oil to
be on the floors in the offices and oily dust bunnies are breeding all
over :) We've eliminated most of the problems with PC's being exposed to
the plant floor environment using Black Box keyboard/mouse/vga extenders
that work over CAT5 up to 500', so the PC's sit in the
shipping/machine/floor offices while the screens/keyboard (with a
condom) and optical mice are on the floor (desk/shelf).
The servers are in cabinets, but the air is the same as the offices, and
they are exposed to the oily film as is anything - I never wear good
clothing when I work there, one knee on the floor and the pants are
ruined. The tape drive has worked in that shop for close to 4 years (so
far) with only 1 out of 30 tapes going bad (LTO-2 drive).
While this is the most extreme of my client environments, it's very
typical for a drive to last 5+ years with only a new cleaning tape and a
couple bad tapes over the years. I do NOT use travan or the other cheap
style drives, LTO or DLT drives are the only type I use.
USB will bother me until the time they can get 7 USB devices on the same
cable/hub that don't screw with each other.
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
You have to THROW the HD against a brick wall to attempt to get 300G's on a
HD..
So IMO not even close to a egg :)
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A49916BE277Ds...@207.46.248.16...
Kenneth Porter
news:eaquQ44c...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
> A typical HD can stand 300G's of force
> You have to THROW the HD against a brick wall to attempt to get 300G's
> on a HD..
>
> So IMO not even close to a egg :)
That's impressive. I'm assuming that's powered down (with heads parked),
not operational (with heads flying over the media).
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]
hard drive off the roof and running over it.
I've got tapes, external hard drives, and a High Rely system (one-bay with 5
drives). I've had various problems, with tape in particular, but there's no
beating tape for offsite. The High Rely system seems to eliminate hot swap
and other USB issues, but you're asking someone to haul around a bigger,
heavier, and more cumbersome thing than a simple backup tape. One worry
might be that taking external devices offsite would be annoying enough that
people don't reliably do it.
IMO the best backup is one that the user understands, monitors, and tests,
and one that's taken offsite frequently enough to be useful in a disaster
recovery scenario. Tape, High Rely, regular USB drives, or whatever is less
important than good monitoring and testing IMO.
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
Rich
I thought the mention of home server was a joke to begin with, but have to
say it looks really good for small networks!
Will definitely bear that oen in mind for the right scenario - thanks.
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"Les Connor [SBS MVP]" <les.c...@DEL.cfive.ca> wrote in message
news:288D89D5-016B-4257...@microsoft.com...
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
recovery disk and format) - 3 partitions, 60 Gb including Exchange and all
the SQL databases including WSUS (all backed up while live) - in about an
hour. The only issue I had was getting the NIC driver in, but it was a minor
workaround.
My WHS also backs up 6 other machines, so in a business setting where there
might be one or two servers, and 3-4 critical workstations, WHS has it
covered.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%23yyNfoC...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
I bet the HD comes out better.
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
SuperGumby [SBS MVP]
around the back yard (I don't want to mark our walls), as long as it is in
its box, as it should be if not in the drive. Been there, done that.
Restored files. (and didn't break m' toes, which I think a USB drive, in
enclosure, would do)
Direct sunlight, particular through glass, is not good. DO NOT leave tape
cartridges on the dashboard of your car.
People suggest stereo speakers are no good for them also however a friend
involved in 'the entertainment industry' had a stack of tapes on top of a
speaker that I panicked about. He laughed. You see, as well as his backups
he uses AudioDAT, _hundreds of them_, that get thrown around rock concerts,
sit on hot amps or a stack of speakers AC/DC would be proud of (and in fact
used), get thrown into the free space in a 'road case' and passed through
not only the airport security scan but 'roadies' hands (SuperYUK!!!).
Reckons he has never had a tape go bad. Tangles, yes. Breakages, yes. But we
tested a couple of tapes, and they were all readable. AGAIN, I do not
recommend putting magnetic media on high EMF sources.
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:e06kxaEd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
kj [SBS MVP]
> Though I do not recommend it I am quite prepared to dropkick a DDS
> tape around the back yard (I don't want to mark our walls), as long
> as it is in its box, as it should be if not in the drive. Been there,
> done that. Restored files. (and didn't break m' toes, which I think a
> USB drive, in enclosure, would do)
>
> Direct sunlight, particular through glass, is not good. DO NOT leave
> tape cartridges on the dashboard of your car.
>
> People suggest stereo speakers are no good for them also however a
> friend involved in 'the entertainment industry' had a stack of tapes
> on top of a speaker that I panicked about. He laughed. You see, as
> well as his backups he uses AudioDAT, _hundreds of them_, that get
> thrown around rock concerts, sit on hot amps or a stack of speakers
> AC/DC would be proud of (and in fact used), get thrown into the free
> space in a 'road case' and passed through not only the airport
> security scan but 'roadies' hands (SuperYUK!!!). Reckons he has never
> had a tape go bad. Tangles, yes. Breakages, yes. But we tested a
> couple of tapes, and they were all readable. AGAIN, I do not
> recommend putting magnetic media on high EMF sources.
Apples and oranges, Audio tapes are much more accepable to "variations" than
data tapes. Even if you discern a drop out it's no big deal - but if it's
your "system state" well then you got issues dude
>
> "Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
> news:e06kxaEd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Throw a tape against the wall and see how it survives?
>> I bet the HD comes out better.
>>
>> Russ
>>
>> --
>>
>> SBITS.Biz
>> Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
>> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
>> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
>> North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> "Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
>>> "Russ \(SBITS.Biz\)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in
>>> news:eaquQ44c...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> A typical HD can stand 300G's of force
>>>> You have to THROW the HD against a brick wall to attempt to get
>>>> 300G's on a HD..
>>>>
>>>> So IMO not even close to a egg :)
>>>
>>> That's impressive. I'm assuming that's powered down (with heads
>>> parked), not operational (with heads flying over the media).
--
/kj
SuperGumby [SBS MVP]
But we tested a
>> couple of tapes, and they were all readable. AGAIN, I do not
>> recommend putting magnetic media on high EMF sources.
>
> Apples and oranges, Audio tapes are much more accepable to "variations"
> than data tapes. Even if you discern a drop out it's no big deal - but if
> it's your "system state" well then you got issues dude
What part of this is confusing?
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> Throw a tape against the wall and see how it survives?
> I bet the HD comes out better.
Strange, I can't imagine throwing a "Tape" against a wall, but if you
want to try for real-world examples...
Drop a USB External Drive from shoulder height, on a concrete floor.
Drop a LTO-2 tape from shoulder height, on a concrete floor.
Guess which one fails to be readable first the majority of time.
Now, in all my years of using tapes, I've never lost a tape because
someone dropped it - yes, the case has looked bad, but the tape still
worked.
Even better, how many USB External drives failed during a power surge on
a improperly protected power system? (not really a fair question since
tape media doesn't use power)....
Leythos
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
> A typical HD can stand 300G's of force
> You have to THROW the HD against a brick wall to attempt to get 300G's on a
> HD..
>
> So IMO not even close to a egg :)
Sorry to say this, but the HD is not really the question - since the
case, etc... can be damaged with just a few LB of pressure in many
cases. I've seen connectors on the drive damaged, chips on the cards,
etc... An to be fair, we're talking USB External drives, at least I
thought we were, so take your typical manager/small shop, without an IT
person, and wing their USB External drive across the room - it's going
to be broken (notice I didn't say anything about the platters), do the
same with the tape in its case and you will find it still works most all
times.
Leythos
Kevin...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com says...
> Apples and oranges, Audio tapes are much more accepable to "variations" than
> data tapes. Even if you discern a drop out it's no big deal - but if it's
> your "system state" well then you got issues dude
I had a client that their IT manger used a DDS-4 media, 1 time per
backup, he kept many hundreds of them in a couple boxes in his car for a
several years - in the trunk, all seasons, all temps.... We tested a few
of them and they worked fine. I have tapes that are more than 10 years
old that were archived, and the drive too, and every once in a while I
get out an old computer and check to see if the media still works - not
because I need the data, but I like to check stats once in a while.
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
Bingo UP and running
Break a Plastic Tape Case, UH? Put it in a new holder???
Not easy...
Sorry I've had Tape FAIL too many times.
once IMO is enough.
You can choose to push tape on clients,
but as I said earlier even Microsoft has seen that TAPE is dead...
I won't convince you and you won't convince me.
No sense on going on IMO
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222761f5d...@Adfree.usenet.com...
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]
to support it in the one native backup app they offer. People who want tape
can continue to use 3rd party products.
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:%23n96U7K...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
not dead?
Unsupported means DEAD!
You can call it alive if you want, but dead is Dead...
Sorry
RIP
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:1D627626-F616-483A...@microsoft.com...
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]
product that's supported by Microsoft, especially in bigger environments.
My tape backup can be supported by CA, Symantec, Backup Assist, or whoever.
I already use a 3rd party tape backup app, so MS already doesn't support
backup in my network (tape or otherwise - my backup to disk is
ShadowProtect). Tape isn't ready to go the way of the parallel printer
quite yet.
You don't imagine a Fortune 50 company sending a bunch of secretaries out to
Staples for a pile of external USB drives, right? : -)
This is a religious war we probably shouldn't be having. Some hate tape,
others hate disk. My argument would be that whoever has a backup that
they're comfortable with, that they're using, and that works, is the winner.
FWIW, I hate tape for all the reasons you describe. I hate disk because
instead of carrying around a cute little tape, I'm asking someone to carry
around something the size and weight of a brick. And I hate disk because in
spite of all the commentary, if someone stops fast and the whole mess slides
off the car seat, the tape will definitely work, and the disk may or may
not.
My boss is a backup fanatic, and he doesn't care how much I spend on backup
hardware and software. That said, the High Rely with 5 750GB drives was
well over $1000, significantly more than a DDS drive and tapes. I can't use
regular USB drives because the woman who takes care of the offsite won't
deal with cables and all that, and I don't want to do it myself (no one will
forget about backup faster than me).
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:eK%2394vMd...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Russ (SBITS.Biz)
I think I'm repeating myself???? LOL
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:8CC034D0-E381-4B5B...@microsoft.com...
Kenneth Porter
> Have a look at Windows Home Server. A single, daily SBS Backup and a
> daily WHS backup will go a very, very long way.
The tricky bit is offsite storage. You have to shut down 2 services and
copy the DB folder to some removable media, then restart the 2 services. It
would be great if WHS added a UI for that.
Kenneth Porter
news:#ihWSAnc...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
> Saying that, I might give up on the concept anyway as it occurs to me
> that in backing up an image to tape (or anywhere else) I'm also
> backing up swap files, temp files and all manner of junk that isn't
> needed for a restore. If WSUS is present would be an extra 20Gb or so
> in the backup.
I exclude WSUS from my backup, figuring I can recover the latest patches
quickly enough from a fresh install.
Have you seen WinDirStat? It's a nifty utility for seeing what large cruft
is lying about on your drive. Pretty handy for finding obsolete monster
files that are eating up your backup capacity.
Another similar program is SequoiaView.
Both programs use a novel visualization technique called treemapping:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treemapping
Here's a screenshot:
http://windirstat.info/images/windirstat.jpg
Mouse around on the treemap while looking at the statusbar and you can see
how your space is consumed. It can be very enlightening. (And addictive!)
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
easily?
I believe there are already a couple of over-the-wire off-site offerings for
WHS.
I'm doing some heavy testing on a production SBS network with WHS right now,
gathering stats, etc. I'll post in when I have some more info.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4CB0E5D32...@207.46.248.16...
johnnyboy
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP] wrote:
I use ShadowProtect Server on all of my member servers.
13-Feb-08
Previous Posts In This Thread:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:15 PM
Rich wrote:
What backup software do you use and why?
I'm currently looking for an alternative server backup solution and am
interested to hear what software you are using, and why do you use it?
BTW On my servers I use a mix of NTBackup and Symantec Backup Exec v10 &
v11. Have also tried Acronis True Image Server. And am not in love with any
of them ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:35 PM
Holz wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
What's wrong with what you use and what do you not like?
--
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:14 PM
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:56 PM
dan wrote:
Dave, can you say why ShadowProtect is better than Acronis True Image Server
Dave, can you say why ShadowProtect is better than Acronis True Image Server
in your experience? I use Acronis but not ShadowProtect and I am curious what
it does better than Acronis. Thanks.
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:32 PM
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP] wrote:
Sorry, I'm the wrong one to ask.
Sorry, I'm the wrong one to ask. I have almost no experience with Acronis,
although I know it's a well respected product. I was having ongoing backup
issues with a member server, and someone introduced me to the ShadowProtect
crew at SMBNation in 2006. I installed the trial when I got back, and I've
been using it ever since. It's really the only thing I've used other than
Arcserve and SBS Backup.
If you're interested in trying it, I'm pretty sure you can just go to their
web site and download the trial. I ran it on a test server for a while, so
I can confirm that it installs and uninstalls cleanly, at least in my
experience.
One other thing - does Acronis have hardware-independent restore?
ShadowProtect has a thing where you can restore the backups to a VM, or to
different hardware, by booting off the ShadowProtect disk and configuring
the drivers for the new hardware as step 1 in the restore process. I have
not had to use this, but I've seen it demonstrated where someone restored a
server to a VM on a laptop and got up and running relatively quickly. I
sleep better knowing that if a server goes down, I'll be able to restore it
to whatever hardware I have on hand, and that the office will be running
while we wait for replacement hardware.
"dan" <dan(removethis)@westerveltconsulting.com> wrote in message
news:%23WWvmOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:35 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
I really couldn't say one is better than the otherhowever if you want
I really couldn't say one is better than the other
however if you want something more than the SBS Wizard Backup (Which Works
BTW)
The ShadowProtect for SBS is Cheaper than the Acronis
ShadowProtect Small Business Server Edition 3.1 $495.00 USD
http://store.storagecraft.com:80/acb/stores/1/ShadowProtect-Small-Business-Server-Edition-30-P24C8.aspx
I actually do both myself SBS backup and Shadowprotect.
And yes you can get a free 30 trial.
The only Difference between the SBS and NON sbs is that the SBS version will
only install on SBS.
And Cheaper of course.
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"dan" <dan(removethis)@westerveltconsulting.com> wrote in message
news:%23WWvmOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:02 PM
dan wrote:
Thanks for responding Dave.
Thanks for responding Dave. Yes, Acronis does have hardware independent
restore capability, but I have not tested it.
Maybe someone else monitoring the newsgroup has.
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:58 PM
Rich wrote:
1. NTBackup is great for a free product, backs up Exchange nicely.
1. NTBackup is great for a free product, backs up Exchange nicely. But it
doesn't allow brick level mail restore - and also seems to have the tendency
to stop working withotu warning and for no reason (in the case of tape
backups anyway). Tis a bit clunky to use too.
2. Backup Exec is great for a straight forward backup to tape, but my
experience of using network folders on a NAS have been less than
satisfactory - much corruption of network backup destinations. It's also
very complicated to setup - for me personally a backup system should be
extremely simple and foolproof ;-) Oh, yes and it's now owned by Symantec so
it's probably going to end up being ruined by them.
3. Acronis - I really like Acronis and use True Image a lot for quickly
grabbing images - it also supports imaging to and from network devices
really well - even during bare metal restores. I have tried the server
version though and am trying to use it to backup to tape. It's giving lots
of tape errors, whereas Backup Exec on the same box works fine. I'd like to
get this working well, but ShadowProtect sounds like it's worth
investigating.
IMHO ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"Holz" <ho...@my-laptop.nowhere> wrote in message
news:20080213133...@IT01.ladco.local...
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:14 PM
Holz wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:58:21 -0000
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
I use ntbackup only for the system state & C drive to disk. It is the
fastest way to recover from bad installations.
Follproof depends on the scenario / $$$. As a rule I always extract all
the mailboxes using exmerge, and have one outlook open all night
running a VBA script to backup public folders to an external disk. If
push comes to shove, I can restore them all by hand after re-building
the server. At a different client, I have the services stopped and
MDBDATA directory copied to an external drive. I also have a client
where Exchange is running on a 2003 virtual machine on Linux host,
snapshots taken twice a day, clone every night. If I need to recover I
use the clone or snapshot.
I use Acronis in house, not to tape. I let the tape pick up the images.
I guess what I am trying to say, there is no on size fits all, it is
what you see as a must have.
My 4 cents :-), since it cost 2 cents to make one!
--
On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:43 PM
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP] wrote:
Use both Acronis and Shadowprotect.
Use both Acronis and Shadowprotect. Both image and can restore to alternate
hardware. Big difference, as stated here, Shadowprotect has an SBS Version
that costs $495. Acronis does not have and SBS version, which I have
suggested to them many times. You will need to purchase Acronis True Image
Echo Server for Windows $699 and if you want the independent hadware feature
you need Acronis True Image Echo Server Universal Restore $299. You must
also purchase maintenance for the first year $140. Add it up, $1138. Hard
sell to SMB customers.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:%23Obblkp...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
On Friday, February 15, 2008 4:12 PM
Rich wrote:
I've been trying to backup an image to tape using Acronis for a few days and
I've been trying to backup an image to tape using Acronis for a few days and
it's been pretty glitchy. Have managed to backup a single volume, but trying
to backup 2 volumes gives non specific tape errors.
Think I'll give up on that idea as I was looking for something to work 'out
of the box'.
Will definitely look at Shadow Protect even though it won't fulfill the
straight to tape option.
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OiwFYQsb...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
On Friday, February 15, 2008 4:46 PM
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP] wrote:
Hmm, I have used Acronis to backup to tape successfully for months now.
Hmm, I have used Acronis to backup to tape successfully for months now.
Does it give you any errors?
BTW: For the most bang for your dollar and speed in restoring, I would
suggest External USB hard drive for images. Much faster than tape and the
cost is minimal. Besides, you do not have to change a tape every day which
is handy if you have someone who forgets or you go on vacation.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OfQbreBc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
On Friday, February 15, 2008 5:09 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
"John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:#GcD5wBc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
That's the path I've taken for a few years, since portable drives got so
big and so cheap. At one point I thought the new high-capacity DVD formats
(eg. Blu-Ray) would be the next backup medium but they took so long getting
to market that portable hard drives blew past them.
Under what circumstances does tape gain an advantage? I've always found it
awkward to use.
On Friday, February 15, 2008 6:33 PM
John Oliver, Jr. [MVP] wrote:
High Speeed tape devices like LTO can be just as fast if not faster than USB.
High Speeed tape devices like LTO can be just as fast if not faster than
USB. For most small businesses they cannot afford the cost of LTO, so
external hard drive or NAS device makes sense. The Netgear Storage Central
Turbo NAS is very affordable and provides redundancy.
--
John Oliver, Jr
MCSE, MCT, CCNA
Exchange MVP 2008
Microsoft Certified Partner
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A458FF92BC69s...@207.46.248.16...
On Friday, February 15, 2008 8:00 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
In article <#GcD5wBc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
jcoli...@hotmail.com says...
And you don't have to change the tape every day anyway - at least no
more than you would with a USB drive.
If you use a USB drive and you don't change them out frequently then you
are playing with fire. A USB drive can only hold so much, if that's your
backup device and it dies in a fire, with your server, you're dead in
the water. Most safety-deposit boxes will hold a backup TAPE without
problem.
A tape is able to hold several backups on one tape - depending on the
size of the tape. A tape can be faster than a USB drive. USB drives can
fault a server as you connect/disconnect the device.
I've had many tape drives in customers network for decades, they work
great.
I've had a few customers that used USB drives and while they are cheap,
if you consider the requirement to have off-site holding of backups, and
to rotate backups, the cost is not that much different.
For SOX requirements we have one customer that requires 1 tape per day
(M-F) for each day of the month, one tape per month, one tape per year,
for multiple years.
25+12+3 = 40 tapes, would be the same for USB drives if we used them.
LTO-2 Drive (scsi) and Tapes cost them $2600.
40 USB 400GB drives would cost them over $4000.
Now, take the example of a typical client:
5 tapes, M-F, 1 Saturday tape/week 5, 1 monthly tape/month 12
That's 22 tapes.
Tape Drive is $960, tapes are $29 each = $1,600 (about)
USB Drives about $120 for real cheap units = $2,640 (about)
So, a LTO tape solution is cheaper than the same USB solution, by $1000,
for the same level of data security.
Now, if your data doesn't mean that much to you and you can use two USB
drives, say around 500GB, getting 2 or 3 backups per drive, then you can
spend about $450 for good ones (total) and have a choice of swapping
them daily or just every other day, or not at all....
I'll stick with the security of tape.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Friday, February 15, 2008 8:03 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <eRfi1sCc...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>,
jcoli...@hotmail.com says...
$960 for the LTO-2 drive
$ 30 for tapes
Server should already have the proper interface (SATA/SCSI) since there
are LTO-2 drives that can use SCSI or SATA....
A NAS with RAID-1/5, and you have to have two of them, since you always
want one backup kept off-site for proper disaster recovery planning...
1TB NAS drives, not the cheap junk ones, are about $500 each, so that
means you just spent $1000 for two backup devices that are reliable.
So, $1050 for a tape backup solution where you can keep adding tapes for
$30 each, or a $1000 backup solution where it cost you $500 each to add
on additional backup media?
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:48 AM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
I've had tapes fail too many times over the last 20 years.
I've had tapes fail too many times over the last 20 years.
Cost is not the issue IMO it's reliability.
Not alone the Rotation, Head cleaning, Proper tape storage.
Most small business don't want to mess with all this.
And usually leave this MOST important job to the least Skilled person to do
it.
In the next version of SBS2008 TAPE backup is not supported with the wizard
Which IMO even emphasizes TAPE is Dead With Microsoft.
You are welcome to fuss with it, but IMO it's too much work for something so
unreliable.
Price means nothing if the backup is no good.
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222000739...@Adfree.usenet.com...
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:33 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <u#NV3uLcI...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
Reliability is higher on tape than USB drive.
If you don't check the backups on either method then you're sure to find
it didn't work when you need it.
Tapes are normally more available and easier to store than USB drives.
Tapes don't have electrical parts that can screw up the server.
Tapes do go bad, normally after years of use.
And the rotation should be followed on USB devices also - if you are
only using 1 USB drive then you're going to have a complete and
catastrophic failure at some point and not have a good backup.
If you're going to use a single USB drive then you might as well have
just installed a swappable HD and use it for backups.
Head cleaning - lets see, CLEAN light comes on, you insert cleaning
tape, it ejects after cleaning, you put next tape in drive.
Storge - a LOT easier to store tapes than USB Drives.
Most businesses don't have a clue as to how little data protection they
actually have by using a drive connected to the server as their backup
media.
And a tape does not require logging into the server, just replace the
ejected tape.
A USB Drive requires that the user disconnect the cable from the server
or drive and reconnect it - possibly causing a power condition that I
have seen crash servers.
And since when has MS ever been the defining source on what is best for
anyone. You know the expression, the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and the
Microsoft Way.
And to do a proper backup, being able to take media off-site, without
chance of crashing the server, a tape is the best solution.
If you have 5 USB drives to rotate, and you get good ones, at $250 each,
that's $1000. So, now you're into having to store large items, having to
connect/disconnect them, to make sure they always map as the same drive
letter..... and you're not really any cheaper than LTO-2.... Oh, and you
have less reliability with USB drives.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:25 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
I've been using USB's for over 5 years now.
I've been using USB's for over 5 years now.
In that time all the clients that were on TAPE and swore by it
Their units have failed and then they swore at TAPE units.
I've had too many tapes fail and Zero USB backups fail.
Like I said Even Microsoft has realizes TAPE is dead
And they are usually the last to recognize obsolete hardware.
An unreliable tape unit IMO is not a solution but money wasted.
You are welcome with your consulting practice to keep pushing Tape on
people.
I've just find it not reliable enough and not worth the risk...
We will just have to differ in consulting that's all. :)
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.22210494f...@Adfree.usenet.com...
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:31 PM
SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
The only tape system I have seen regularly fail is Travan.
The only tape system I have seen regularly fail is Travan.
Yes, I test my backups. If you do not test restore you do not backup.
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:32 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
Wait as Sec?You said a USB Drive has electrical parts that Screw up a Server?
Wait as Sec?
You said a USB Drive has electrical parts that Screw up a Server?
Where do you get this Data From?
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.22210494f...@Adfree.usenet.com...
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:58 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <u7mb3MP...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
In 5 years I've seen about 80 drive fail, 1 tape drive that was 6 years
old failed, many tapes have failed, but they are cheap to replace.
As for USB drives, I've seen them last about 1 to 2 years at best.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:59 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <eMtAARPc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
I've seen a drive connected to a server BSOD it, several times. I've
also seen drives disconnected that were not completely done writing and
cause the data to be corrupted - impatient users.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:29 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
Wow a hard drive mess up a serverNews to me, I guess we should take out Hard
Wow a hard drive mess up a server
News to me, I guess we should take out Hard drives out of servers Laugh.
Boy Mark some of the things that happen to you is weird... LOL
Russ
--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222142f82...@Adfree.usenet.com...
On Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:25 AM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <ue1fo2Rc...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
No, it's no that it's a "Hard Drive", it's that it's a USB device that
has a POWER connection that can cause problems.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Monday, February 18, 2008 3:50 PM
Rich wrote:
Hi John,Have just received a response from Acronis (nice people) with some
Hi John,
Have just received a response from Acronis (nice people) with some updated
drivers to try.
Saying that, I might give up on the concept anyway as it occurs to me that
in backing up an image to tape (or anywhere else) I'm also backing up swap
files, temp files and all manner of junk that isn't needed for a restore. If
WSUS is present would be an extra 20Gb or so in the backup.
...also backing up via image doesn't flush Exchange server log files so they
start to build up too.
I'm not sure imaging is a realistic means of backing up as a regular offsite
backup strategy.
My main reason for still using tape is for ease of creating off-site
backups. I still think external HDDs are a bit chunky in comparison to tape.
Reading many of the great posts here it seems there still isn't a 'silver
bullet' when it comes to backups ;-)
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23GcD5wB...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
On Monday, February 18, 2008 4:58 PM
Les Connor [SBS MVP] wrote:
Have a look at Windows Home Server.
Have a look at Windows Home Server. A single, daily SBS Backup and a daily
WHS backup will go a very, very long way.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%23ihWSAn...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
On Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:45 PM
GeraldF wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
In article <#ihWSAnc...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,
nos...@nowhere.com says...
I believe the purpose of a backup is to restore the
system to the way it was. Acronis is incredibly fast in
accomplishing this. If you backup to a system drive the
restore can be very quick indeed-minutes in fact. I
backup to a Raid logical partition and to my USB 3
different USB drives. Each media is QOD. If the system
failed I could restore from the Raid and then any recent
files from the USB. Acronis will also allow the restore
of individual files.
Give up on tape, it is too slow.
I have had my Server up and operating with Acronis in 15
minutes, and I have 3-100 GB drives. (USB would take an
hour, and tape hours)
On Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:02 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
Leythos <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in news:MPG.2221ffbd82deb370989a46
@Adfree.usenet.com:
Sounds like connector issues. Hot plugging should be old hat, especially in
the server field where removable drives have been far more common than in
workstations. Apparently something was wrong in the USB hot plug
implementation on those systems. I'd be interested in knowing if it was
systemic to the particular chipset (either host or device) or if it was a
manufacturing glitch in the connectors.
On Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:17 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
Leythos <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in news:MPG.222142b8bfa4a8a5989a40
@Adfree.usenet.com:
I wonder how the handling and storage requirements compare? I have a couple
of machine shop clients, so their environment is positively filthy. And
they don't have ultra-clean space with good temperature control to keep a
server. (Even offices suffer a lot of paper dust. Combine that with an
omnipresent fine mist of oily coolant....) Tapes and drives wouldn't last
long. Hard drives are fairly well sealed and seem more tolerant of that
situation. OTOH, hard drives are much more sensitive to shock, so you have
to treat them like eggs.
(I recall a few years ago having one shop computer, a PS/2 Model 80,
failing. We pulled it open and blue coolant came pouring out of it. One of
the Microchannel cards had come loose. We reseated all the cards, mopped
the box out, and it came right back up.)
On Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:01 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <Xns9A498EE147614s...@207.46.248.16>,
shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com says...
Different vendors boards. While not common, almost rare, it's possible
to short (yea, not proper use of the term) one depending on how gentile
you are with the connector.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:08 PM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <Xns9A49916BE277Ds...@207.46.248.16>,
shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com says...
One of my clients is a LARGE machining company, it's standard for oil to
be on the floors in the offices and oily dust bunnies are breeding all
over :) We've eliminated most of the problems with PC's being exposed to
the plant floor environment using Black Box keyboard/mouse/vga extenders
that work over CAT5 up to 500', so the PC's sit in the
shipping/machine/floor offices while the screens/keyboard (with a
condom) and optical mice are on the floor (desk/shelf).
The servers are in cabinets, but the air is the same as the offices, and
they are exposed to the oily film as is anything - I never wear good
clothing when I work there, one knee on the floor and the pants are
ruined. The tape drive has worked in that shop for close to 4 years (so
far) with only 1 out of 30 tapes going bad (LTO-2 drive).
While this is the most extreme of my client environments, it's very
typical for a drive to last 5+ years with only a new cleaning tape and a
couple bad tapes over the years. I do NOT use travan or the other cheap
style drives, LTO or DLT drives are the only type I use.
USB will bother me until the time they can get 7 USB devices on the same
cable/hub that don't screw with each other.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:58 AM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
A typical HD can stand 300G's of forceYou have to THROW the HD against a brick
A typical HD can stand 300G's of force
You have to THROW the HD against a brick wall to attempt to get 300G's on a
HD..
So IMO not even close to a egg :)
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A49916BE277Ds...@207.46.248.16...
On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:24 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
"Russ \(SBITS.Biz\)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in
That's impressive. I am assuming that is powered down (with heads parked),
not operational (with heads flying over the media).
On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:09 PM
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP] wrote:
If you go to www.tapesucks.
If you go to www.tapesucks.com, there's a video of them throwing a High Rely
hard drive off the roof and running over it.
I've got tapes, external hard drives, and a High Rely system (one-bay with 5
drives). I've had various problems, with tape in particular, but there's no
beating tape for offsite. The High Rely system seems to eliminate hot swap
and other USB issues, but you're asking someone to haul around a bigger,
heavier, and more cumbersome thing than a simple backup tape. One worry
might be that taking external devices offsite would be annoying enough that
people don't reliably do it.
IMO the best backup is one that the user understands, monitors, and tests,
and one that's taken offsite frequently enough to be useful in a disaster
recovery scenario. Tape, High Rely, regular USB drives, or whatever is less
important than good monitoring and testing IMO.
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:34 PM
Rich wrote:
Hi Les,I thought the mention of home server was a joke to begin with, but have
Hi Les,
I thought the mention of home server was a joke to begin with, but have to
say it looks really good for small networks!
Will definitely bear that oen in mind for the right scenario - thanks.
--
Rich
http://www.badangling.com
...talking pollocks since 1996
"Les Connor [SBS MVP]" <les.c...@DEL.cfive.ca> wrote in message
news:288D89D5-016B-4257...@microsoft.com...
On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:03 PM
Les Connor [SBS MVP] wrote:
Tis no joke.
Tis no joke. I've fully recovered my SBS from bare metal (boot from the WHS
recovery disk and format) - 3 partitions, 60 Gb including Exchange and all
the SQL databases including WSUS (all backed up while live) - in about an
hour. The only issue I had was getting the NIC driver in, but it was a minor
workaround.
My WHS also backs up 6 other machines, so in a business setting where there
might be one or two servers, and 3-4 critical workstations, WHS has it
covered.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%23yyNfoC...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:00 AM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
Throw a tape against the wall and see how it survives?
Throw a tape against the wall and see how it survives?
I bet the HD comes out better.
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:51 AM
SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
Though I do not recommend it I am quite prepared to dropkick a DDS tape around
Though I do not recommend it I am quite prepared to dropkick a DDS tape
around the back yard (I don't want to mark our walls), as long as it is in
its box, as it should be if not in the drive. Been there, done that.
Restored files. (and didn't break m' toes, which I think a USB drive, in
enclosure, would do)
Direct sunlight, particular through glass, is not good. DO NOT leave tape
cartridges on the dashboard of your car.
People suggest stereo speakers are no good for them also however a friend
involved in 'the entertainment industry' had a stack of tapes on top of a
speaker that I panicked about. He laughed. You see, as well as his backups
he uses AudioDAT, _hundreds of them_, that get thrown around rock concerts,
sit on hot amps or a stack of speakers AC/DC would be proud of (and in fact
used), get thrown into the free space in a 'road case' and passed through
not only the airport security scan but 'roadies' hands (SuperYUK!!!).
Reckons he has never had a tape go bad. Tangles, yes. Breakages, yes. But we
tested a couple of tapes, and they were all readable. AGAIN, I do not
recommend putting magnetic media on high EMF sources.
"Russ (SBITS.Biz)" <sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
news:e06kxaEd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:29 AM
kj [SBS MVP] wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
Apples and oranges, Audio tapes are much more accepable to "variations" than
data tapes. Even if you discern a drop out it's no big deal - but if it's
your "system state" well then you got issues dude
--
/kj
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:24 AM
SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
But we tested aWhat part of this is confusing?
But we tested a
What part of this is confusing?
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:25 AM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <e06kxaEd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
Strange, I can't imagine throwing a "Tape" against a wall, but if you
want to try for real-world examples...
Drop a USB External Drive from shoulder height, on a concrete floor.
Drop a LTO-2 tape from shoulder height, on a concrete floor.
Guess which one fails to be readable first the majority of time.
Now, in all my years of using tapes, I've never lost a tape because
someone dropped it - yes, the case has looked bad, but the tape still
worked.
Even better, how many USB External drives failed during a power surge on
a improperly protected power system? (not really a fair question since
tape media doesn't use power)....
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:31 AM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <eaquQ44c...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>,
sup...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
Sorry to say this, but the HD is not really the question - since the
case, etc... can be damaged with just a few LB of pressure in many
cases. I've seen connectors on the drive damaged, chips on the cards,
etc... An to be fair, we're talking USB External drives, at least I
thought we were, so take your typical manager/small shop, without an IT
person, and wing their USB External drive across the room - it's going
to be broken (notice I didn't say anything about the platters), do the
same with the tape in its case and you will find it still works most all
times.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:32 AM
Leythos wrote:
Re: Backup media (was: What backup software do you use and why?)
In article <#e78ztFd...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>,
Kevin...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com says...
I had a client that their IT manger used a DDS-4 media, 1 time per
backup, he kept many hundreds of them in a couple boxes in his car for a
several years - in the trunk, all seasons, all temps.... We tested a few
of them and they worked fine. I have tapes that are more than 10 years
old that were archived, and the drive too, and every once in a while I
get out an old computer and check to see if the media still works - not
because I need the data, but I like to check stats once in a while.
--
Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:26 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
Simple, Take the Drive out of the USB Holder put it in a new one.
Simple, Take the Drive out of the USB Holder put it in a new one.
Bingo UP and running
Break a Plastic Tape Case, UH? Put it in a new holder???
Not easy...
Sorry I've had Tape FAIL too many times.
once IMO is enough.
You can choose to push tape on clients,
but as I said earlier even Microsoft has seen that TAPE is dead...
I won't convince you and you won't convince me.
No sense on going on IMO
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.222761f5d...@Adfree.usenet.com...
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:47 PM
Dave Nickason [SBS MVP] wrote:
I'm not sure I'd say that MS considers tape as dead.
I am not sure I'd say that MS considers tape as dead. They just choose not
to support it in the one native backup app they offer. People who want tape
can continue to use 3rd party products.
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:54 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
So Win 3.
So Win 3.0 Even though it's not supported by Microsoft you'd considered it
not dead?
Unsupported means DEAD!
You can call it alive if you want, but dead is Dead...
Sorry
RIP
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:1D627626-F616-483A...@microsoft.com...
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:34 PM
On Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:31 PM
Russ \(SBITS.Biz\) wrote:
Again, You use what you want I'll use what I want'I think I'm repeating myself?
Again, You use what you want I'll use what I want'
I think I'm repeating myself???? LOL
Russ
--
SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
-
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdi...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:8CC034D0-E381-4B5B...@microsoft.com...
On Friday, February 22, 2008 8:23 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
"Les Connor [SBS MVP]" <les.c...@DEL.cfive.ca> wrote in
news:288D89D5-016B-4257...@microsoft.com:
The tricky bit is offsite storage. You have to shut down 2 services and
copy the DB folder to some removable media, then restart the 2 services. It
would be great if WHS added a UI for that.
On Friday, February 22, 2008 8:28 PM
Kenneth Porter wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
"Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:#ihWSAnc...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
I exclude WSUS from my backup, figuring I can recover the latest patches
quickly enough from a fresh install.
Have you seen WinDirStat? It's a nifty utility for seeing what large cruft
is lying about on your drive. Pretty handy for finding obsolete monster
files that are eating up your backup capacity.
Another similar program is SequoiaView.
Both programs use a novel visualization technique called treemapping:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treemapping
Here's a screenshot:
http://windirstat.info/images/windirstat.jpg
Mouse around on the treemap while looking at the statusbar and you can see
how your space is consumed. It can be very enlightening. (And addictive!)
On Friday, February 22, 2008 8:43 PM
Les Connor [SBS MVP] wrote:
Re: What backup software do you use and why?
That will come :-). In the meantime, I think that could be scripted fairly
easily?
I believe there are already a couple of over-the-wire off-site offerings for
WHS.
I'm doing some heavy testing on a production SBS network with WHS right now,
gathering stats, etc. I'll post in when I have some more info.
--
Les Connor [SBS MVP]
________________________
Get the SBS BPA here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940439/en-us
"Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4CB0E5D32...@207.46.248.16...
Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
XAML Organizer
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials/aspnet/ac373a5d-e497-4e07-9186-12166e83a024/xaml-organizer.aspx
Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
I wouldn't recommend this for any server type backup
This Backup service is really intended for PC's and Simple files at best.
In addition as a FYI when you reply to a post in
These web sites.
EggHeadcafe
Forums.Techarena
MSGroups
vistaheads
And many Others
They attempt to mirror Microsoft Break/Fix public newsgroups.
*For Profit from advertisements.
It shows up as a broken thread on a Microsoft Public newsgroup
and usually it's old or outdated post.
In most cases any responding or post means
that 99% of the world will not know what you are responding to.
Example: In your current post we may have no reference to what you are
talking about.
and or it may be too old to even give use proper response.
If you avoid these types of websites and post directly to the Microsoft
newsgroup you will benefit from threads not getting broken.
And a lot of misunderstanding.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?
It has the feature to notify you on a reply also.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Thanks for posting
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
Remote Small Business Server/Computer Support -
http://www.SBITS.Biz
BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - http://www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com
http://www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
Paul Galan
it?s easy to store and access files online. You have plenty of storage space. Just add your important files to your online backup. Everything you choose to include will be there for you to download on any computer just by using a web browser. (it also has a free antivirus software)
http://onlinebackup.zenok.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> it's been pretty glitchy. Have managed to backup a single volume, but trying
>>>>>>>>>>> to backup 2 volumes gives non specific tape errors.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Think I'll give up on that idea as I was looking for something to work 'out
>>>>>>>>>>> of the box'.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Will definitely look at Shadow Protect even though it won't fulfill the
>>>>>>>>>>> straight to tape option.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.badangling.com
>>>>>>>>>>> ...talking pollocks since 1996
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:OiwFYQsb...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 15, 2008 4:46 PM John Oliver, Jr. [MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm, I have used Acronis to backup to tape successfully for months now.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it give you any errors?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: For the most bang for your dollar and speed in restoring, I would
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest External USB hard drive for images. Much faster than tape and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cost is minimal. Besides, you do not have to change a tape every day which
>>>>>>>>>>>> is handy if you have someone who forgets or you go on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> John Oliver, Jr
>>>>>>>>>>>> MCSE, MCT, CCNA
>>>>>>>>>>>> Exchange MVP 2008
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Partner
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rich" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:OfQbreBc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 15, 2008 5:09 PM Kenneth Porter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoli...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:#GcD5wBc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's the path I've taken for a few years, since portable drives got so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> big and so cheap. At one point I thought the new high-capacity DVD formats
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (eg. Blu-Ray) would be the next backup medium but they took so long getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to market that portable hard drives blew past them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Under what circumstances does tape gain an advantage? I've always found it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> awkward to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 15, 2008 6:33 PM John Oliver, Jr. [MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> High Speeed tape devices like LTO can be just as fast if not faster than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In that time all the clients that were on TAPE and swore by it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their units have failed and then they swore at TAPE units.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had too many tapes fail and Zero USB backups fail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said Even Microsoft has realizes TAPE is dead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And they are usually the last to recognize obsolete hardware.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An unreliable tape unit IMO is not a solution but money wasted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are welcome with your consulting practice to keep pushing Tape on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just find it not reliable enough and not worth the risk...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will just have to differ in consulting that's all. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russell Grover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:MPG.22210494f...@Adfree.usenet.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:31 PM SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only tape system I have seen regularly fail is Travan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I bet the HD comes out better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SBITS.Biz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> North America Remote SBS2003 Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kenneth Porter" <shiva.b...@sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9A4A8872C525Ds...@207.46.248.16...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:51 AM SuperGumby [SBS MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though I do not recommend it I am quite prepared to dropkick a DDS tape
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 29, 2010 3:07 AM Johnny Boy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I personally use Dmailer http://www.dmailer.com/dmailer-backup.html why ? because it has an online storage feature to save ur backup and is easy to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Working with Microsoft Word 2007 Document Fragments in SharePoint
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials/aspnet/4cf42872-9ca3-458d-9f57-625c6d3d3a8c/working-with-microsoft-word-2007-document-fragments-in-sharepoint.aspx