How to make em dash an easy quick character
Larry
dash in a Windows application such as Outlook Express.
Is there some way I can reconfigure my keyboard to be able to type an em
dash as easily as I type an exclamation mark or a question mark—with a
single key?
This is not a problem in MS Word, because in Word you can easily assign the
em dash to any key combination you want. But I don't know how re-assign a
key for all Windows applications.
I use Windows 98.
Larry
Larry
types the vertical line character: < | >. I almost never use this.
Could this key be reconfigured so that it produces the em dash? And if I
ever wanted that the vertical line character back, would there be some way
to toggle the two settings for that key?
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:eID2Ugr%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Larry
any character. I don't want an extra utility for this. I want to change
the key itself.
Thanks.
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:eOTBdnr%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Don Phillipson
> I know there are utilities that allow the user to assign key combinations
to
> any character. I don't want an extra utility for this. I want to change
> the key itself.
Most (all?) of the old utilities for this were TSR
apps written for DOS. Windows is different, in
that its specific installations control the keyboard
(e.g. 1 set language character set, e.g. 2 thus
recognize the special Windows key.) So if you
want to reassign a key in Windows you must
rewrite that part of Windows that addresses the
keyboard. This must be why nearly all users
remember the Alt & keypad assignments for
non-standard characters.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Gary S. Terhune
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillips...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:uJn9WTs%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>I am so tired of having to type Alt+(NUM)0151 whenever I want to type an em
>dash in a Windows application such as Outlook Express.
>
>Is there some way I can reconfigure my keyboard to be able to type an em
>dash as easily as I type an exclamation mark or a question mark謡ith a
>single key?
>
>This is not a problem in MS Word, because in Word you can easily assign the
>em dash to any key combination you want. But I don't know how re-assign a
>key for all Windows applications.
>
>I use Windows 98.
>
>Larry
I've done something like this by hacking the appropriate .kbd file.
For example, you could use the following command at the DOS prompt to
edit your US keyboard definition file:
edit /64 %windir%.\system\kbdus.kbd
Change both occurrences of the pipe (|) character to Alt+(NUM)0151. Or
experiment with one, then the other, then both. Be sure to do this in
overstrike mode, not insert mode.
A slightly better way would be to have two US keyboards, one standard,
the second how you like it. Use Alt+LeftShift to switch between them.
That's how I've set up my system (I need to redefine 3 keys).
BTW, I *often* use the pipe symbol. It comes in handy in DOS mode for
piping the output of one command to the input of another. I also use
it for ASCII art. In my case the # character would be more
appropriate.
I don't use the following product, but it may provide some insight for
you:
Janko's Keyboard Generator
http://solair.eunet.yu/~janko/engdload.htm
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Larry
Franc,
You seem to be telliing me that it's possible to do what I want to do, which
others in the group are telling me is not possible. So, are you sure this
can be done without causing any unwanted changes in my system?
Assuming it is possible, I'm going to need more step by step instructions on
how to do it. So far I pasted the code you gave me into the Dos prompt, and
that opened an Edit window with a blue background and what looks like two
sequences of all the characters produced by the keyboard, including the |
character. There is only one instance of | . You tell me to type
Alt+(NUM)0151 over the | .
Questions:
Does Alt+(NUM)0151 look exactly like that? No brackets around it or
anything?
You say to use overtype not insert. But if I use overtype (whether for
typing or pasting), a whole bunch of characters gets wiped out by
Alt+(NUM)0151.
Thanks,
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:coi7k29kajes2d424...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:40:09 -0400, "Larry" <larry32...@att.net>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >I am so tired of having to type Alt+(NUM)0151 whenever I want to type an
em
> >dash in a Windows application such as Outlook Express.
> >
> >Is there some way I can reconfigure my keyboard to be able to type an em
> >dash as easily as I type an exclamation mark or a question mark-with a
Larry
There needs to be a campaign by computer users to get computer hardware and
software companies to make the em dash a regular character with a regular
key assignment like any other frequently used punctuation mark. It is
ridiculous that the em dash, which is more commonly used than, say, the
exclamation mark for most writers, does not have its own key, and
furthermore that so many applications cannot even display the em dash! As a
result, most online writers use a double hyphen, even in published articles
(which of course printed publications do not use--they use the em dash), or
worse, they use a single hyphen with spaces around it, or, worse yet, they
use a single hyphen with no spaces around it.
Larry
"Gary S. Terhune" <grys...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:es$4H%23s%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Gary S. Terhune
I'll sign the petition, ,s>. Fact is, Word, and I think WordPerfect, will
automatically convert a double-hyphen into an em-dash. Close as they've come
to accomodating us em-dash users. For now, though, the third-party key
re-assigners, or Franc's method for editing the keyboard files, are what you
have to work with.
One way you *can* directly impact the design of future word-processors,
etc., is to join the various beta programs. That is where user input into
design specs gets listened to. Whether or not it is implemented would depend
on the demand, but that is where such demands are listened to.
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:%23sQQ1Qv%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>Franc,
>
>You seem to be telliing me that it's possible to do what I want to do, which
>others in the group are telling me is not possible. So, are you sure this
>can be done without causing any unwanted changes in my system?
I have created my own Slovenian keyboard layout by modifying a US
keyboard definition file. To do this I had to redefine the Q, W, and Y
keys as C(h), S(h), and Z(h). The latter correspond to Alt+0200,
Alt+0138, and Alt+0142 in the Central European character maps. The
reason I chose not to use the standard Slovenian keyboard was because
its layout, particularly in relation to punctuation symbols, differs
greatly from the US. To make it easy to switch from one to the other,
I added the three missing characters by replacing three letters that
were not available in Slovenian, namely Q,W,Y (I could also have used
X).
>Assuming it is possible, I'm going to need more step by step instructions on
>how to do it. So far I pasted the code you gave me into the Dos prompt, and
>that opened an Edit window with a blue background and what looks like two
>sequences of all the characters produced by the keyboard, including the |
>character. There is only one instance of | .
YUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?|`1234567890-=QWERTYUIOP[]\ASDFGHJK
^ ^
> You tell me to type
>Alt+(NUM)0151 over the | .
Yes.
>Questions:
>
>Does Alt+(NUM)0151 look exactly like that? No brackets around it or
>anything?
No brackets, it just looks like this: ů
However, at the bottom of the edit window you should see its correct
ASCII value, namely 151.
I think the reason it looks different in DOS mode is to do with the
encoding format, ie UTF (8-bit) versus Unicode (16-bit). Just type
Alt+0151 at the DOS command line to see what I mean, or type Alt+151
then Alt+0151 in Windows.
>You say to use overtype not insert. But if I use overtype (whether for
>typing or pasting), a whole bunch of characters gets wiped out by
>Alt+(NUM)0151.
I'm just basically warning you not to add to the size of the file.
Type the Insert key until you see a block cursor rather than an
underline cursor. Use the arrow keys to position your cursor over the
pipe character and then type Alt+0151 (or Alt+151). Save the file and
reboot.
I suggest you make a backup of the original file in case you make a
mistake.
jya...@ds.net
Would somebody tell me what an em dash is? I'm a little dense today.
Thanks.
Jack
--
AlmostBob
capital M
A measurement that varies with the type face and font size, an em is always
larger than
a normal hyphen, (which is as wide as the average character width).
used to signify break or change in thought, parenthesis, list items etc
--
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links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before
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Grateful thanks to the authors/webmasters
_
<jya...@ds.net> wrote in message
news:4838k2dsu7rdfv3oj...@4ax.com...
Larry
Thanks, but you're giving me some contradictory instructions here.
1. I asked you:
> >Does Alt+(NUM)0151 look exactly like that? No brackets around it or
> >anything?
And you answered:
> No brackets, it just looks like this: ů
Huh?
2. You told me to type
> >Alt+(NUM)0151
But then you tell me to type:
> Alt+0151 (or Alt+151)
Thanks.
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:hb18k2paond792fgh...@4ax.com...
Larry
They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
The double hyphen is used with Courier font (which cannot properly print the
em dash) and also is used very commonly online because of the problem I
described in my original post. It is almost never used in printed
publications. Except for Courier, the double hyphen should never be used,
but it is used because the lack of a regular key assignment for it and
because in some e-mails it doesn't display properly.
<jya...@ds.net> wrote in message
news:4838k2dsu7rdfv3oj...@4ax.com...
>
Larry
meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and type
0151.
It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up the
file and I'll try this tomorrow.
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:uEtU%23by%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Larry
viewed in my computer. Instead of looking like an em dash, it looks like a
hyphen, though when I was drafting the message it looked correct. I don't
know why that happened. In fact I've never seen that happen before.
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:ewfjkby%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Gary S. Terhune
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
"AlmostBob" <anony...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uk9Hdnw%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
... et al.
> The em dash is used to indicate a sudden break in thought:
>
> They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
>
> People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
>
> They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
I think this looks strange without any spaces.
Makes me think, what is "saw-but" / "saw--but"?
Shall it really be like that?
I think that with spaces looks better, like:
I'm staying out of this -- now, here's my opinion.
> The double hyphen is used with Courier font (which cannot properly print the
> em dash) and also is used very commonly online because of the problem I
> described in my original post. It is almost never used in printed
> publications. Except for Courier, the double hyphen should never be used,
> but it is used because the lack of a regular key assignment for it and
> because in some e-mails it doesn't display properly.
Why is Courier special?
Do you really mean "Except for Courier, ..." or rather "Except when
using non-proportional (fixed-width) fonts, ..."?
--
Nah-ah, i'm staying out of this -- now, here's my opinion.
Please followup in the newsgroup.
E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
jya...@ds.net
> =================================
Thanks very much for all of the responses.
Jack
--
hubbc...@yahoo.com.au
Larry wrote:
> I am so tired of having to type Alt+(NUM)0151 whenever I want to type an em
> dash in a Windows application such as Outlook Express.
>
> Is there some way I can reconfigure my keyboard to be able to type an em
> single key?
>
> This is not a problem in MS Word, because in Word you can easily assign the
> em dash to any key combination you want. But I don't know how re-assign a
> key for all Windows applications.
>
> I use Windows 98.
>
> Larry
If you select SYMBOL, from the INSERT menu in Word, it has a SPECIAL
CHARACTERS tab.
Top of that tab it says ALT+CTRL+NUM - gives you an em dash but it only
works in Word.
Carole
PCR
your petition right below Terhune. The purpose of this response is just to see
whether I can post an em dash using OE, which is the 3rd of these, all got from
"START button, Run, Charmap"...
- – —.
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:u3bloiy%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
> Would somebody tell me what an em dash is? I'm a little dense today.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack
You could read the first line of the OP's initial post and do what it
says, ie hold down the Alt key and press 0 on the numeric keypad, then
1 then 5 then 1, and then release the Alt key.
Otherwise go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash
Or go to Start->Run and type "charmap" to launch Character Map. The em
dash is directly below the "7", on the 4th row. If Character Map is
not installed, go to Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Windows
Setup -> System Tools -> Details.
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>My sample of em dash did not work well in the sent message, at least as
>viewed in my computer. Instead of looking like an em dash, it looks like a
>hyphen, though when I was drafting the message it looked correct. I don't
>know why that happened. In fact I've never seen that happen before.
It *is* a hyphen. When I save your text to a file and view it using
Debug or Edit, the "-" character displays as 2Dh or 45 dec, not 97h or
151 dec.
>"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
>news:ewfjkby%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> The em dash is used to indicate a sudden break in thought:
>>
>> They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
>>
>> People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
>>
>> They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
- Franc Zabkar
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Sorry, I see what you mean. When you said "type Alt+0151" I thought you
>meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and type
>0151.
>
>It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up the
>file and I'll try this tomorrow.
Here, I've done it for you:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/kbdus.kbd
Larry
I drafted, then after it was sent to the group it turned into a hyphen (asc
45).
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:qqt8k2p1ai66soh20...@4ax.com...
Larry
to the library and look at several books and you'll see it's done both ways.
I personally prefer it without spaces.
"... et al." <lo...@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:7p21h.21153$E02....@newsb.telia.net...
Larry
a hyphen.
Em dash: To be or not to be-that is the question.
I typed the above as an em dash and it displayed as such. When I looked at
it in the Outbox in OE it had changed into a hyphen. It must be some odd
thing happening with my computer.
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:u3bloiy%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>You're right. This is bizarre. It was an em dash (asc 0151) in the e-mail
>I drafted, then after it was sent to the group it turned into a hyphen (asc
>45).
If I paste the em dash from a Windows app into a DOS box, then it
displays as an underscore (ASC 95 dec). If I use Alt+151 rather than
Alt+0151, then the resultant character (ASC 151) displays the same way
in a DOS box as it does in Windows. An Alt+0151 in Notepad displays as
a black square, probably due to the font.
In your case the problem appears to be that you are now posting using
the following setting ...
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
... whereas in your initial post you used ...
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
7-bit encoding allows for only 128 characters, therefore character #
151 would need to be approximated by its closest 7-bit "equivalent".
Well, that's how it looks to me, anyway.
Larry
Here it is-my own customized em dash-which I just typed by pressing Shift+\
and there it is Fantastic. No more hassling with Alt+0151.
Of course I've saved the original file in case I want to go back to it.
And if I want to type the "pipe," I just do Alt+124 et voila: | . But I'd
say in the last eight years I've typed the pipe maybe 20 times, and typed an
em dash many thousands of times.
I've tested it in every application.
Thank you for this.
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:k00ak2dsuhvld8h8g...@4ax.com...
Larry
message are being changed into hyphens when I send them. (This only happens
in unformatted plain text news messages.)
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:%23MjcQj7%23GHA...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Larry
Would the file you gave me work with any version of Windows?
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:k00ak2dsuhvld8h8g...@4ax.com...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Franc,
>
>Would the file you gave me work with any version of Windows?
>
>Larry
I know that the same .kbd file works in Win95 but I don't know about
any other versions. This URL suggests that the same file would also
work in Win ME but not in NT/2000/XP:
http://solair.eunet.yu/~janko/engdload.htm
====================================================================
Q: Can Janko's Keyboard Generator for Windows 95/98/Me be used for
Windows NT/2000/XP keyboard layouts?
A: The product deliberately named Janko's Keyboard Generator for
Windows 95/98/Me can't be used for Windows NT/2000/XP keyboard
layouts.
Reasons: The differences are extremely big, since Win 9x/Me has 16-bit
keyboard code using codepages, and Win NT/2000/XP uses 32-bit code
using Unicode. KBD files are practically "flat" files produced by
assembler (linker does not add anything to such produced files), Win
NT/2000/XP keyboard files are in fact DLLs which are produced with a C
compiler and linker.
====================================================================
In the case of NT/2000/XP I would try hacking the appropriate DLL
file. I'd use a hex editor to search for "QWERTY" and I'd then replace
each pipe with an em dash as appropriate.
BTW, just to satisfy my own curiosity, here is a test string:
óóó---óóó (3 em dashes, 3 hyphens, 3 em dashes)
J. P. Gilliver
> Whether or not to put spaces around the em dash is a matter of choice. Go
> to the library and look at several books and you'll see it's done both
> ways.
> I personally prefer it without spaces.
Remember that, should your text pass through anything which only allows
7-bit characters (which still applies to some of usenet), leaving out the
spaces will result in two words joined by a hyphen.
J. P. Gilliver
[]
>>sequences of all the characters produced by the keyboard, including the |
>>character. There is only one instance of | .
>
> YUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?|`1234567890-=QWERTYUIOP[]\ASDFGHJK
> ^ ^
Aargh, fonts strike again: as I see that in Outlook Express, which seems to
be using Times New Roman for the moment, the two carets aren't under the |
characters: the first one is between I and O, and the second a little to the
left of centre of H.
By counting spaces, I can see that, with an equispaced font, the first at
least would be in the right place.
J. P. Gilliver
> Except, for some reason, as we discussed before, the em dashes in a news
> message are being changed into hyphens when I send them. (This only
> happens
> in unformatted plain text news messages.)
Plain text doesn't include any character beyond 127 (and 127 is the delete
character, the proper one that is). Some systems may allow characters beyond
that to pass through, but there's no guarantee that they will be displayed
on someone else's machine as the same character: beyond 127, at least in
"plain text", there is no standard. There is some uniformity if your message
system specifies a certain extended character set - _if_ that character set
is implemented at the remote end; it's unwise to assume that for usenet,
though.
The em dash (which I've _never_ felt the need for - but horses for courses!)
is fine in a controlled environment, where you know everyone is using the
same software, or at least the same character sets and 8-bit encoding.
Otherwise, it joins the pound sign, all the accented/umlauted letters, and
so on, in being fragile.
Franc Zabkar
<john.g...@baesystems.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
I plead not guilty. :-)
This is how my post looks at Google Groups:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/85c72308a22eec14?dmode=source&hl=en
All my messages are composed using a fixed width font (Courier New). I
am aware of the distorting effects of proportional fonts because I
often post ASCII drawings.
AFAICT, your installation of OE appears to be adding a space to the
beginning of the "YUIOP" line but not to the following line:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/1f41dd424d8687fb?dmode=source&hl=en
OTOH, Larry's version of OE quotes my post correctly:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/26f75cd071a6fed3?dmode=source&hl=en
With respect, I think your own post best demonstrates why people
should avoid using variable width fonts in Usenet. ;-)
Franc Zabkar
<john.g...@baesystems.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
As I've pointed out elsewhere, the OP has switched to 7-bit encoding
after initially posting with 8-bit encoding. Could that be his
problem?
Larry
Vista, or whatever they call it. :-)
But this is a great improvement: a basic feature I've always needed, and
now I have it. As the Australians say, I'm happy as Larry.
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:enlck2d5nh4rpcmp4...@4ax.com...
> --------- (3 em dashes, 3 hyphens, 3 em dashes)
Larry
at least, any print book or magazine uses the em dash as a standard
punctuation. It is used very frequently. That is why it is maddening that
it is not a standard character with its own key.
But Gary Terhune and a couple of others here have said they support my idea
for a request to Microsoft to address this, and I will write up some letter
soon.
"J. P. Gilliver" <john.g...@baesystems.com> wrote in message
news:454668bf$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
Gary S. Terhune
campaign, please include Apple and IBM, at *least*, and preferably blanket
the entire industry.
--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
http://grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:OZqePFR$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Larry
to my changing from quotable printable to none, as was requested of me, I
did experiment in switching back to quotable printable, and that did not fix
it the problem of em dash changing into hyphen.
Perhaps this problem has always existed in news messages, and I wasn't aware
of it because I had not used em dashes in those messages before this.
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4q8dk2pjlh571lr95...@4ax.com...
Larry
To be or not to be — that is the question.
Here again for comparison I'm doing it without spaces.
To be or not to be—that is the question.
"J. P. Gilliver" <john.g...@baesystems.com> wrote in message
news:45466676$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
Larry
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:uBPHKqR$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Now it's working both with flanking spaces and without. Oh gosh ...
That's because you've reverted to 8-bit encoding.
>"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
>news:uBPHKqR$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> I missed your point before, Ok, I'll try it with flanking spaces:
>>
>> To be or not to be — that is the question.
>>
>> Here again for comparison I'm doing it without spaces.
>>
>> To be or not to be—that is the question.
- Franc Zabkar
Larry
as "None" (instead of quotable printable), which is what I changed it to a
week ago in response to a request. The setting was "none" when this problem
appeared a couple of days ago and it is "none" now that the problem has gone
away. Unless I've completely lost track of things, which is, ah, entirely
possible ...
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:du7fk21q247qjifa8...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:42:45 -0500, "Larry" <larry32...@att.net>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Now it's working both with flanking spaces and without. Oh gosh ...
>
> That's because you've reverted to 8-bit encoding.
>
> >"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
> >news:uBPHKqR$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> I missed your point before, Ok, I'll try it with flanking spaces:
> >>
> >> To be or not to be - that is the question.
> >>
> >> Here again for comparison I'm doing it without spaces.
> >>
> >> To be or not to be-that is the question.
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Well, then, I might be needing your help again when I move from 98 to XP, or
>Vista, or whatever they call it. :-)
I don't have any experience with XP and I can't see myself migrating
to any other MS OS. I think you're going to be on your own. :-(
One way to find out which DLL(s) is/are involved is to install
international language and keyboard support (via Control Panel
Add/Remove Programs ???) and monitor the changes to your system.
Otherwise you may be able to view the contents of the appropriate INF
file(s). FWIW, the following appear to be the relevant Win98SE INFs:
C:\WINDOWS\INF\MULTILNG.INF
C:\WINDOWS\INF\MULLANG.INF
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>All I've done is kept the news message Sending format, Plain message format
>as "None" (instead of quotable printable), which is what I changed it to a
>week ago in response to a request. The setting was "none" when this problem
>appeared a couple of days ago and it is "none" now that the problem has gone
>away. Unless I've completely lost track of things, which is, ah, entirely
>possible ...
I don't use OE, so I can't advise you. All I can do is to show you
what your messsages look like in the Google Groups archives. BTW, now
you've reverted to 7-bits. :-)
7-bit, charset="iso-8859-1"
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/17aa6feb6a51f35b?dmode=source&hl=en
8-bit, charset="Windows-1252"
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/5f105e09f3d78646?dmode=source&hl=en
Larry
Just curious, what OS do you use now, and how do you expect not to have to
move eventually to the newer ones?
W98-98SE users are pretty rare these days ...
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:uoafk2d80k1caadkh...@4ax.com...
PCR
"OE, Tools, Options, Send tab, News Plain Text Settings button".
When I am set to MIME, I can send that big em dash. But, now at
Uuencode, it is squashed after it is sent... —..., though it looked just
fine before! Sounds like Zabcar has it right, that it has to do with the
number of encoding bits. I am pleased fiddling with kbdus.kbd, as he
also instructed, seems to have solved your original problem across
applications.
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"Larry" <larry32...@att.net> wrote in message
news:edQXRQS$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Just curious, what OS do you use now, and how do you expect not to have to
>move eventually to the newer ones?
>
>W98-98SE users are pretty rare these days ...
I'm presently using W98SE and will probably move to Linux.
PCR
— -
... If the 1st is large, I can't figure what the problem was.
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> wrote in message news:%237uWU0S$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>Oops, that wasn't it! It works at Uuencode too! But I swear it DIDN'T in an E-Mail I sent to myself! Before that, it worked at MIME, None, in this NG. Now, I'll try at Quoted Printable, which is the other one you mentioned...
>— -
>... If the 1st is large, I can't figure what the problem was.
I think you had it right in your first post to this thread.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
no data
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from 7-bit
to 8-bit.
I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
7bit/8bit
Quoted Printable (MIME)
Base 64
This URL ...
http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
"While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using the
format in which they were sent' "
And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in response
to yours, and yours to mine.
I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
PCR
| On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:54:24 -0500, "PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> put
| finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| >Oops, that wasn't it! It works at Uuencode too! But I swear it DIDN'T
in an E-Mail I sent to myself! Before that, it worked at MIME, None, in
this NG. Now, I'll try at Quoted Printable, which is the other one you
mentioned...
| >— -
| >... If the 1st is large, I can't figure what the problem was.
|
| I think you had it right in your first post to this thread.
|
|
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/7b5e5cb857a196a6?dmode=source&hl=en
|
| MIME-Version: 1.0
| Content-Type: text/plain;
| charset="Windows-1252"
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
That one was MIME, None. I believe "Allow 8-bit characters in headers"
was unchecked, as it is now when I bolt MIME. Definitely, "Reply to
messages using the format in which they were sent'" was already
unchecked. So, that doesn't seem to be the cause of squashed em dashes—
I was replying to Larry!
That one was Uuencode. Em dashes show up fine for me viewing it here in
this NG using OE. Also, it shows well at that Google page.
|
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
|
| MIME-Version: 1.0
| Content-Type: text/plain;
| charset="Windows-1252"
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This one is what it says— MIME, Quoted Printable. It shows up fine using
OE in this NG. It seems to be a mess at the Google page, though...!...
.....Quote the Google page......
Oops, that wasn't it! It works at Uuencode too! But I swear it DIDN'T in
=
an E-Mail I sent to myself! Before that, it worked at MIME, None, in =
this NG. Now, I'll try at Quoted Printable, which is the other one you =
mentioned...
=97 -
... If the 1st is large, I can't figure what the problem was.=20
--=20
......EOQ the Goog;e page...............
Looks like Google can't handle it!
| After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
| happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from 7-bit
| to 8-bit.
I've looked at all your posts in this thread & could not find one in
which you posted an em dash.
| I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
|
| 7bit/8bit
| Quoted Printable (MIME)
| Base 64
|
| This URL ...
|
| http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
|
| ... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
|
| "While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using the
| format in which they were sent' "
I was already unchecked.
| And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in response
| to yours, and yours to mine.
Yet, I got my em dash responding to Larry who could not...
news:uNZ8jb4%23GH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
...& his Properties showed...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
| I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
| Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
I don't know. How could Google sometimes get it right & sometimes wrong?
It seems to do with Quoted Printable, which even Larry himself seemed to
suspect— maybe it's a combo of Usenet & Quoted Printable that won't
work!
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:idhfk215c3o7959ja...@4ax.com...
>| After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
>| happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from 7-bit
>| to 8-bit.
>
>I've looked at all your posts in this thread & could not find one in
>which you posted an em dash.
Here's my test post (8-bit):
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/265bc57a45151370?dmode=source&hl=en
>| I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
>|
>| 7bit/8bit
>| Quoted Printable (MIME)
>| Base 64
>|
>| This URL ...
>|
>| http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
>|
>| ... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
>|
>| "While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using the
>| format in which they were sent' "
>
>I was already unchecked.
>
>| And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in response
>| to yours, and yours to mine.
On closer examination I found at least one case where Agent responded
with 8 bits to Larry's 7 bits, and one where it responded with 7 bits
to Larry's 8. :-(
>Yet, I got my em dash responding to Larry who could not...
> news:uNZ8jb4%23GH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
>...& his Properties showed...
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>| I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
>| Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
>
>I don't know. How could Google sometimes get it right & sometimes wrong?
>It seems to do with Quoted Printable, which even Larry himself seemed to
>suspect— maybe it's a combo of Usenet & Quoted Printable that won't
>work!
AFAICS quoted printable should always work because it is designed to
send 8-bit characters through a 7-bit gateway. I suspect that a post
does not always follow the same path to the news server and hence may
not always be able to avoid 7-bit gateways, in which case it is
down-converted from 8 to 7 bits at these points.
As for Google getting it wrong, I don't think so. According to Agent's
help docs, quoted printable "uses only 7 bits to encode 8-bit
characters. Thus, information won't be lost when messages are
transferred via 7-bit gateways". What you are seeing in Google instead
of the em dash is "=97", ie 97 hex or 151 dec. When displaying a
message on your monitor, OE probably converts the "=97" to an em dash,
whereas at Google you are seeing the raw message. My newsreader allows
me to "Display as raw message" or "Display as plain text". Perhaps OE
has a similar option?
I found these articles helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Content-Transfer-Encoding
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:idhfk215c3o7959ja...@4ax.com...
>| After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
>| happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from 7-bit
>| to 8-bit.
>
>I've looked at all your posts in this thread & could not find one in
>which you posted an em dash.
Here's my test post (8-bit):
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/265bc57a45151370?dmode=source&hl=en
>| I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
>|
>| 7bit/8bit
>| Quoted Printable (MIME)
>| Base 64
>|
>| This URL ...
>|
>| http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
>|
>| ... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
>|
>| "While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using the
>| format in which they were sent' "
>
>I was already unchecked.
>
>| And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in response
>| to yours, and yours to mine.
On closer examination I found at least one case where Agent responded
with 8 bits to Larry's 7 bits, and one where it responded with 7 bits
to Larry's 8. :-(
>Yet, I got my em dash responding to Larry who could not...
> news:uNZ8jb4%23GH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
>...& his Properties showed...
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>| I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
>| Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
>
>I don't know. How could Google sometimes get it right & sometimes wrong?
>It seems to do with Quoted Printable, which even Larry himself seemed to
>suspect— maybe it's a combo of Usenet & Quoted Printable that won't
>work!
AFAICS quoted printable should always work because it is designed to
send 8-bit characters through a 7-bit gateway. I suspect that a post
does not always follow the same path to the news server and hence may
not always be able to avoid 7-bit gateways, in which case it is
down-converted from 8 to 7 bits at these points.
As for Google getting it wrong, I don't think so. According to Agent's
help docs, quoted printable "uses only 7 bits to encode 8-bit
characters. Thus, information won't be lost when messages are
transferred via 7-bit gateways". What you are seeing in Google instead
of the em dash is "=97", ie 97 hex or 151 dec. When displaying a
message on your monitor, OE probably converts the "=97" to an em dash,
whereas at Google you are seeing the raw message. My newsreader allows
me to "Display as raw message" or "Display as plain text". Perhaps OE
has a similar option?
I found these articles helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Content-Transfer-Encoding
- Franc Zabkar
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:idhfk215c3o7959ja...@4ax.com...
>| After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
>| happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from 7-bit
>| to 8-bit.
>
>I've looked at all your posts in this thread & could not find one in
>which you posted an em dash.
Here's my test post (8-bit):
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/265bc57a45151370?dmode=source&hl=en
>| I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
>|
>| 7bit/8bit
>| Quoted Printable (MIME)
>| Base 64
>|
>| This URL ...
>|
>| http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
>|
>| ... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
>|
>| "While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using the
>| format in which they were sent' "
>
>I was already unchecked.
>
>| And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in response
>| to yours, and yours to mine.
On closer examination I found at least one case where Agent responded
with 8 bits to Larry's 7 bits, and one where it responded with 7 bits
to Larry's 8. :-(
>Yet, I got my em dash responding to Larry who could not...
> news:uNZ8jb4%23GH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
>...& his Properties showed...
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>| I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
>| Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
>
>I don't know. How could Google sometimes get it right & sometimes wrong?
>It seems to do with Quoted Printable, which even Larry himself seemed to
>suspect— maybe it's a combo of Usenet & Quoted Printable that won't
>work!
AFAICS quoted printable should always work because it is designed to
send 8-bit characters through a 7-bit gateway. I suspect that a post
does not always follow the same path to the news server and hence may
not always be able to avoid 7-bit gateways, in which case it is
down-converted from 8 to 7 bits at these points.
As for Google getting it wrong, I don't think so. According to Agent's
help docs, quoted printable "uses only 7 bits to encode 8-bit
characters. Thus, information won't be lost when messages are
transferred via 7-bit gateways". What you are seeing in Google instead
of the em dash is "=97", ie 97 hex or 151 dec. When displaying a
message on your monitor, OE probably converts the "=97" to an em dash,
whereas at Google you are seeing the raw message. My newsreader allows
me to "Display as raw message" or "Display as plain text". Perhaps OE
has a similar option?
I found these articles helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Content-Transfer-Encoding
- Franc Zabkar
PCR
| On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:47:21 -0500, "PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> put
| finger to keyboard and composed:
|
| >"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
| >news:idhfk215c3o7959ja...@4ax.com...
|
| >| After examining my own headers, it appears that the same thing is
| >| happening to me, ie my encoding is changing automatically from
7-bit
| >| to 8-bit.
| >
| >I've looked at all your posts in this thread & could not find one in
| >which you posted an em dash.
|
| Here's my test post (8-bit):
|
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/265bc57a45151370?dmode=source&hl=en
Now I see it. It was good...
———---——— (3 em dashes, 3 hyphens, 3 em dashes)
... both at Google & here. (But it wasn't Quoted Printable; it was
None.)
| >| I notice that my newsreader, Agent, gives me the following options:
| >|
| >| 7bit/8bit
| >| Quoted Printable (MIME)
| >| Base 64
| >|
| >| This URL ...
| >|
| >| http://cit.cornell.edu/computer/elist/text/outlook-express4.html
| >|
| >| ... may give us a clue as to what is happening:
| >|
| >| "While still in the "Send" tab, Uncheck 'Reply to messages using
the
| >| format in which they were sent' "
| >
| >I was already unchecked.
| >
| >| And that appears to be it, ie my encoding format changes in
response
| >| to yours, and yours to mine.
|
| On closer examination I found at least one case where Agent responded
| with 8 bits to Larry's 7 bits, and one where it responded with 7 bits
| to Larry's 8. :-(
Interesting. Mine in OE was unchecked for that, anyhow.
| >Yet, I got my em dash responding to Larry who could not...
| > news:uNZ8jb4%23GH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
| >...& his Properties showed...
| >MIME-Version: 1.0
| >Content-Type: text/plain;
| > charset="iso-8859-1"
| >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
| >| I think JPG's post gives a reason for this. He says that certain
| >| Usenet pathways are limited to 7-bit. Maybe he can elaborate?
| >
| >I don't know. How could Google sometimes get it right & sometimes
wrong?
| >It seems to do with Quoted Printable, which even Larry himself seemed
to
| >suspect— maybe it's a combo of Usenet & Quoted Printable that won't
| >work!
|
| AFAICS quoted printable should always work because it is designed to
| send 8-bit characters through a 7-bit gateway.
QP definitely works here in this NG to handle the em dash. It is a MESS
at Google, is all, as I quoted before.
| I suspect that a post
| does not always follow the same path to the news server and hence may
| not always be able to avoid 7-bit gateways, in which case it is
| down-converted from 8 to 7 bits at these points.
I lean against it being a path problem because, of the bundle I've seen
now at Google, it is only the QP that went bad. Why have none of the
others encountered a bad path?
| As for Google getting it wrong, I don't think so. According to Agent's
| help docs, quoted printable "uses only 7 bits to encode 8-bit
| characters. Thus, information won't be lost when messages are
| transferred via 7-bit gateways".
Google may be having trouble translating it back.
| What you are seeing in Google instead
| of the em dash is "=97", ie 97 hex or 151 dec. When displaying a
| message on your monitor, OE probably converts the "=97" to an em dash,
| whereas at Google you are seeing the raw message.
It was Google's responsibility to translate it to an em dash, I'm
thinking. But I guess I really don't know. Does anyone in the world
actually see an em dash on that Google page...?...
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
...If not, it is Google to blame for sure!
| My newsreader allows
| me to "Display as raw message" or "Display as plain text". Perhaps OE
| has a similar option?
I can R-Clk a page & select "View Source", but I doubt that is the same
as you mean. It shows me what appears to be HTML code. But that is in
IE, not OE.
| I found these articles helpful:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable
I see it is Quoted Printable that plays with "=codes" such as "=97".
And, as you said, 8-bits are encoded to 7-bits, to get through a 7-bit
data path. But something has to translate it back at the other end. That
is where I still suspect Google is failing. Let me give it one more
final chance by posting this one as Quoted Printable, with em dashes...
--- ——— ---
..., which are the 3 in the middle. (But I'm recalling Larry's em dashes
were showing up as regular dashes. That's a bit different from what's
going on at Google. And, by the way, when I send an E-Mail to myself in
Quoted Printable or None or Uuencode, em dashes change to regular ones--
& I am unchecked for "Read all messages in plain text".)
PCR
———---———
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> wrote in message news:%23vLim6f$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
PCR
Printable...
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_frm/thread/9729a26d25d7c495/882b4f5ab104b57c?lnk=st&q=Quoted+Printable++PCR&rnum=1&hl=en#882b4f5ab104b57c
And one of those is the same post that shows =97's & =20's accessed
through the URL you posted...
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
Therefore, I don't know what's going on! Perhaps the URL itself chooses
how many bits will be used or the translation of them... ???.
Looks like Google itself can handle it, though, when it wants, & is NOT
to blame.
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:OaevC9f$GHA....@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>YIKES! NOW I'm seeing em dashes in my posts at Google sent in Quoted
>Printable...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_frm/thread/9729a26d25d7c495/882b4f5ab104b57c?lnk=st&q=Quoted+Printable++PCR&rnum=1&hl=en#882b4f5ab104b57c
>
>And one of those is the same post that shows =97's & =20's accessed
>through the URL you posted...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
>
>Therefore, I don't know what's going on! Perhaps the URL itself chooses
>how many bits will be used or the translation of them... ???.
>
>Looks like Google itself can handle it, though, when it wants, & is NOT
>to blame.
I don't know what's going on, but I've now switched from 7/8 bit to
quoted printable and am sending three characters that display as the
Euro (Alt+128), British Pound (Alt+163), and Yen (Alt+165) currency
symbols when using Courier New font.
€£¥
BTW, sorry for my previous multiple posts. I had some strange server
issue. It normally takes a minute or two for my post to show up, but
after about an hour it still wasn't there in my newsfeed. It turned up
the next day, though. Other posts to other NGs went through OK. I
wonder if they sometimes get stuck at a 6-bit pathway? :-)
J. P. Gilliver
[]
> With respect, I think your own post best demonstrates why people
> should avoid using variable width fonts in Usenet. ;-)
Couldn't agree more; this isn't my setup!
But when you're talking to people who want things like em-dash, any hope of
keeping to equispaced fonts is very forlorn ...
J. P. Gilliver
> Well, it's not just a matter of personal preference. In the United States
> at least, any print book or magazine uses the em dash as a standard
> punctuation. It is used very frequently. That is why it is maddening
> that
> it is not a standard character with its own key.
>
> But Gary Terhune and a couple of others here have said they support my
> idea
> for a request to Microsoft to address this, and I will write up some
> letter
> soon.
Yes, any _print_ book. Any print book is also likely to have bold,
underlining, italic, and various font styles and sizes. (Colours too, if
you're including magazines.)
The original 126-32=94 character set is the _American_ standard code for
information interchange ...
(well, there are others [E. b. c. d. i. c. anyone?], but A. s. c. i. i. I
think predates Microsoft ...)
[FWIW, various length dashes are used _in print_ here in the UK too.]
J. P. Gilliver
>
> Just curious, what OS do you use now, and how do you expect not to have to
> move eventually to the newer ones?
>
> W98-98SE users are pretty rare these days ...
Considering where you're posting this, are you sure?
(FWIW, of the people I've brought into computing ... Tom is on 98, Peter is
on 98 on one PC and XP on the new laptop, Les ditto, Kath on 98, Sally on
2000, Alan on 98, John on 98 ... I see a pattern emerging; maybe I just talk
to old fogies.)
Curt Christianson
--
Curt BD-MVBT
http://dundats.mvps.org/
http://www.aumha.org/
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:79hkk2989k99tfkt5...@4ax.com...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:54:53 -0500, "PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:
>YIKES! NOW I'm seeing em dashes in my posts at Google sent in Quoted
>Printable...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_frm/thread/9729a26d25d7c495/882b4f5ab104b57c?lnk=st&q=Quoted+Printable++PCR&rnum=1&hl=en#882b4f5ab104b57c
>
>And one of those is the same post that shows =97's & =20's accessed
>through the URL you posted...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
>
>Therefore, I don't know what's going on! Perhaps the URL itself chooses
>how many bits will be used or the translation of them... ???.
>
>Looks like Google itself can handle it, though, when it wants, & is NOT
>to blame.
I don't know what's going on, but I've now switched from 7/8 bit to
quoted printable and am sending three characters that display as the
Euro (Alt+128), British Pound (Alt+163), and Yen (Alt+165) currency
symbols when using Courier New font.
?％
Larry
procrastinator on the planet. It seems to me that XP is really needed now.
For example, many web sites are very loaded with graphics and stuff and take
a long time to load. I gather that XP handles that better.
It would be interesting how many users are still on 98.
Franc Zabkar
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Well, I'm on 98 too, but I thought that was because I was the biggest
>procrastinator on the planet. It seems to me that XP is really needed now.
>For example, many web sites are very loaded with graphics and stuff and take
>a long time to load. I gather that XP handles that better.
I can't see how. AFAICS the speed of loading of web content is
determined by your connection speed, while the rendering of this
content would be determined by your CPU, memory, and video card. XP
may appear to handle the job better than W98 simply because it demands
faster hardware.
PCR
put indents on it. Why didn't you try an em dash (ó)? But really I am
done with this. It's too puzzling! Probably, soon I will give them upó &
use double regular dashes, instead. Even Christianson is wishy-washy on
whether he wants to deal with it!
--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcr...@netzero.net
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:79hkk2989k99tfkt5...@4ax.com...
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:54:53 -0500, "PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:
>YIKES! NOW I'm seeing em dashes in my posts at Google sent in Quoted
>Printable...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/br
owse_frm/thread/9729a26d25d7c495/882b4f5ab104b57c?lnk=st&q=Quoted+Printa
ble++PCR&rnum=1&hl=en#882b4f5ab104b57c
>
>And one of those is the same post that shows =97's & =20's accessed
>through the URL you posted...
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/ms
g/cfc894c7f85ab07d?dmode=source&hl=en
>
>Therefore, I don't know what's going on! Perhaps the URL itself chooses
>how many bits will be used or the translation of them... ???.
>
>Looks like Google itself can handle it, though, when it wants, & is NOT
>to blame.
I don't know what's going on, but I've now switched from 7/8 bit to
quoted printable and am sending three characters that display as the
Euro (Alt+128), British Pound (Alt+163), and Yen (Alt+165) currency
symbols when using Courier New font.
Ä£•
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
>Yea, I see you are Quoted Printable in your Properties. Also, I can't
>put indents on it. Why didn't you try an em dash (—)?
AFAICS, the issue involves 8-bit characters so any such character
should do. Anyway here are more test characters:
—€£¥— Alt+0151, Alt+0128, Alt+0163, Alt+0165, Alt+0151
ùÇúÑù Alt+151, Alt+128, Alt+163, Alt+165, Alt+151
Just in case they don't arrive as I sent them, the last set of
characters look like "uCuNu".
>But really I am
>done with this. It's too puzzling!
Likewise.
Larry
But this just proves my point: the em dash should be a regular character,
no different from a comma or a question mark.
Larry
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:75lok2ho2jtspgb7n...@4ax.com...
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:43:54 -0500, "PCR" <pcr...@netzero.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:
>Yea, I see you are Quoted Printable in your Properties. Also, I can't
>put indents on it. Why didn't you try an em dash (-)?
AFAICS, the issue involves 8-bit characters so any such character
should do. Anyway here are more test characters:
-?£¥- Alt+0151, Alt+0128, Alt+0163, Alt+0165, Alt+0151
שַתׁש Alt+151, Alt+128, Alt+163, Alt+165, Alt+151
PCR
>Yea, I see you are Quoted Printable in your Properties. Also, I can't
>put indents on it. Why didn't you try an em dash (—)?
AFAICS, the issue involves 8-bit characters so any such character
should do. Anyway here are more test characters:
—€£¥— Alt+0151, Alt+0128, Alt+0163, Alt+0165, Alt+0151
שַתׁש Alt+151, Alt+128, Alt+163, Alt+165, Alt+151
Just in case they don't arrive as I sent them, the last set of
characters look like "uCuNu".
PCR: I get the same for those...
—€£¥—
שַתׁש
>But really I am
>done with this. It's too puzzling!
Likewise.
PCR: Yea. Let's quit while Larry remains overjoyed with your kbdus.kbd
macinations. Larry, it was no trouble, just another riddle of many,
probably due to one too many encoding protocols for the NET to deal
with.
J. P. Gilliver
> Gosh, look at all the trouble I set off.
>
> But this just proves my point: the em dash should be a regular character,
> no different from a comma or a question mark.
>
> Larry
>
As found on any typewriter, of course.
thanatoid
news:456df050$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
I don't think Alt-0151 (resulting in — AOT -) is THAT much
trouble. Nor is Alt-0191 (¿) for when you need a question mark
in a file name. Nor is Alt-0189 for ½. ETC.
Ever looked at some other-language keyboard layouts? They are a
NIGHTMARE, loaded with key combinations that would not occur to
you in your worst nightmares - yet needed for some quite basic
(in those languages) letters/symbols. The English layout is
simple and effective, as is the language itself.
--
Violent disagreements and the usual abuse expected and welcomed.
tedoniman
Hi Larry!
Maybe this'll help. Not know too much about these things but just keep
fiddling around til get it, one way or another. You might try putting the
"character map"
icon on your taskbar. You should be able to find an em dash in there.
Don't know what ap you using to type in but if it's, for example, Notepad,
and it's open, click the icon on Taskbar (which should be visible at bottom
of DeskTop (unless you've hidden it) and just copy and paste the character
you
want into Notepad.
If U using W98 (like me, at moment), that might not work for some characters.
Has to do with "Unicode", etc., recognition or some such crap. It would work
in XP because for Notepad you get the option there to set it to recognize
Unicode
or whatever.
Another alternative might be to use a more professional text editor; maybe
NotepadLite (free) or some such. Occasionally I use one of the several
editors in the old XTREE GOLD DOS file manager. Think Notepad reads the
output ok.
Another way might be to keep a small text file with the em dash already in
it,
minimized on the Taskbar. Then copy and paste from it. However, in that
case, it's easier to copy and paste just from within the text file you are
working in! as
long as you (1) have 1 em dash already in there and (2) you can use copy and
paste. That should be faster than what U using now maybe. But then again,
I know what you're after and I agree.
Know that in DOS there's a way to re-program the keys and I think there
might be - or should be - away in Windows as well. Thought I found something
like that via Google or Microsoft Knowledgebase before but brain too screwed
up to remember.
Good luck anyway.
Ted...
--
Ted...
"Larry" wrote:
> I am so tired of having to type Alt+(NUM)0151 whenever I want to type an em
> dash in a Windows application such as Outlook Express.
>
> Is there some way I can reconfigure my keyboard to be able to type an em
> dash as easily as I type an exclamation mark or a question mark—with a
> single key?
>
> This is not a problem in MS Word, because in Word you can easily assign the
> em dash to any key combination you want. But I don't know how re-assign a
> key for all Windows applications.
>
> I use Windows 98.
>
> Larry
>
>