>"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >news:lfmrt31gsn197oq233venjp258m04h2okj@4ax.com... >| On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 02:49:15 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> >| put finger to keyboard and composed: >| >| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >| >news:fpsot31cqbpk9hqca2pljhbums5dveqg99@4ax.com... >| >| >| On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:35:07 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> >| >| put finger to keyboard and composed: >| >| >| >| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >| >| >news:ia9jt35o6fi1rrjkqfvm3p0cuskn84aohj@4ax.com... >| >| >| >| ... I now tried >| >| >| FIXMBR. This command warned me that the MBR contained unknown or >| >| >| damaged code, so I went ahead and allowed it to refresh the code. It >| >| >| reported success but when I ran FIXMBR a second time, it still >| >| >| complained of unknown or damaged code. >| >| > >| >| > First I would question whether you cold rebooted between the two >FIXMBR >| >| >[FIXMBR {ugh} which I found to be questionable when using] trys. >| >| >| >| I don't think I did. >| > >| > Kind of like fdisking a drive, gotta reboot. >| >| I can see why you would need to reboot before any newly created >| partitions and logical drives would be detected, but I can't see why >| you would need to do the same after refreshing the code in the MBR. >| AFAIK, the MBR code doesn't remain in RAM after booting ... >| - Franc Zabkar
> And how does it do this when it has already been accessed upon bootup, and >found as faulty. The disk couldn't be accessed properly, so how can it now, >when the code and jumps were wrong to start with and have not been refreshed >yet.. You could see it with an editor, but the BIOS has already transferred >activity elsewhere [particularly in NT].
> Are you indicating that there were no errors when attempting to access the >hard disk after doing so? >______ >* MEB >http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
I don't think any question regarding the integrity of the code in the MBR is of any consequence because I booted to the recovery console of an XP CD. I'm guessing that FIXMBR should work in much the same way as FDISK /MBR in Win9x/DOS, ie it should refresh the code in the first physical sector of the HD, regardless of what is already there. FIXMBR appears to go one step further by warning the user if the MBR code appears to be foreign or damaged, but that's the only difference, AFAICT. FDISK and DISKPART appear to perform similar functions when accessed via their interactive menus. I would think that FDISK, FIXMBR, and DISKPART would always be aware of any changes they themselves have made to the MBR and partition table, without the necessity of a reboot. A reboot would only be necessary to allow the *operating system* to become aware of the same changes. During a reboot, the OS would enumerate the logical drives by looking at the partition table. Thereafter, I can't see that the OS would need to consult the partition table again. I would think that if you deleted the partition table while the OS was running, then the OS would continue to run with the same drive parameters that it had discovered at bootup ... until the next bootup.
The suggestion that FIXMBR requires a reboot before it becomes aware of the changes it has made would mean that it would be consulting some stale memory cache. This makes no sense because the first time you run FIXMBR there is no MBR code in RAM (it has been flushed early in the boot process). So if FIXMBR consults the HD the first time it is executed, then why wouldn't it do the same the second time it is run?
Segment Total Name Type ------- ---------------- ----------- -------- 00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector 00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication Area 00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication Area 00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data CON System Device Driver AUX System Device Driver PRN System Device Driver CLOCK$ System Device Driver A: - D: System Device Driver
Win9x/DOS has loaded "System Device Drivers" for each of my logical drives (A: - D:). I suspect that if I were to use FDISK to edit the partition table, and then re-run the above MEM command without first rebooting, nothing would change. I'm betting you would still be able to write new files to the C: drive without loss of data ... provided that you restored the original partition table prior to rebooting. But that's only a guess - I don't have a test machine to try this.
- Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:53i0u3117q5lkhua2j7m3jpp7urjpr46ic@4ax.com... | On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:26:09 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> | put finger to keyboard and composed: | | >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message | >news:lfmrt31gsn197oq233venjp258m04h2okj@4ax.com... | >| On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 02:49:15 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> | >| put finger to keyboard and composed: | >| | >| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message | >| >news:fpsot31cqbpk9hqca2pljhbums5dveqg99@4ax.com... | >| | >| >| On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:35:07 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> | >| >| put finger to keyboard and composed: | >| >| | >| >| >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message | >| >| >news:ia9jt35o6fi1rrjkqfvm3p0cuskn84aohj@4ax.com... | >| | >| >| >| ... I now tried | >| >| >| FIXMBR. This command warned me that the MBR contained unknown or | >| >| >| damaged code, so I went ahead and allowed it to refresh the code. It | >| >| >| reported success but when I ran FIXMBR a second time, it still | >| >| >| complained of unknown or damaged code. | >| >| > | >| >| > First I would question whether you cold rebooted between the two | >FIXMBR | >| >| >[FIXMBR {ugh} which I found to be questionable when using] trys. | >| >| | >| >| I don't think I did. | >| > | >| > Kind of like fdisking a drive, gotta reboot. | >| | >| I can see why you would need to reboot before any newly created | >| partitions and logical drives would be detected, but I can't see why | >| you would need to do the same after refreshing the code in the MBR. | >| AFAIK, the MBR code doesn't remain in RAM after booting ... | | >| - Franc Zabkar | > | > And how does it do this when it has already been accessed upon bootup, and | >found as faulty. The disk couldn't be accessed properly, so how can it now, | >when the code and jumps were wrong to start with and have not been refreshed | >yet.. You could see it with an editor, but the BIOS has already transferred | >activity elsewhere [particularly in NT]. | > | > Are you indicating that there were no errors when attempting to access the | >hard disk after doing so? | >______ | >* MEB | >http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com | | I don't think any question regarding the integrity of the code in the | MBR is of any consequence because I booted to the recovery console of | an XP CD. I'm guessing that FIXMBR should work in much the same way as | FDISK /MBR in Win9x/DOS, ie it should refresh the code in the first | physical sector of the HD, regardless of what is already there. FIXMBR | appears to go one step further by warning the user if the MBR code | appears to be foreign or damaged, but that's the only difference, | AFAICT. FDISK and DISKPART appear to perform similar functions when | accessed via their interactive menus. I would think that FDISK, | FIXMBR, and DISKPART would always be aware of any changes they | themselves have made to the MBR and partition table, without the | necessity of a reboot. A reboot would only be necessary to allow the | *operating system* to become aware of the same changes. During a | reboot, the OS would enumerate the logical drives by looking at the | partition table. Thereafter, I can't see that the OS would need to | consult the partition table again. I would think that if you deleted | the partition table while the OS was running, then the OS would | continue to run with the same drive parameters that it had discovered | at bootup ... until the next bootup. | | The suggestion that FIXMBR requires a reboot before it becomes aware | of the changes it has made would mean that it would be consulting some | stale memory cache. This makes no sense because the first time you run | FIXMBR there is no MBR code in RAM (it has been flushed early in the | boot process). So if FIXMBR consults the HD the first time it is | executed, then why wouldn't it do the same the second time it is run? | | This is what I see when I execute ... | | MEM /D /P | | ... from a DOS prompt in Win98SE: | | ===================================================================== | Conventional Memory Detail: | | Segment Total Name Type | ------- ---------------- ----------- -------- | 00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector | 00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication | Area | 00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication | Area | 00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data | CON System Device Driver | AUX System Device Driver | PRN System Device Driver | CLOCK$ System Device Driver | A: - D: System Device Driver | | <snip> | | ===================================================================== | | Win9x/DOS has loaded "System Device Drivers" for each of my logical | drives (A: - D:). I suspect that if I were to use FDISK to edit the | partition table, and then re-run the above MEM command without first | rebooting, nothing would change. I'm betting you would still be able | to write new files to the C: drive without loss of data ... provided | that you restored the original partition table prior to rebooting. But | that's only a guess - I don't have a test machine to try this. | | - Franc Zabkar | -- | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
You're running the Recovery Console from NT, NOT from DOS. NT handles disk access in a different form... a common mistake made by *DOS users* is to think NT works like DOS does. I think we already did this before, to a point, in those prior XP and hard drive discussions.
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 02:49:15 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >news:fpsot31cqbpk9hqca2pljhbums5dveqg99@4ax.com... >| >| ... I now tried >| >| FIXMBR. This command warned me that the MBR contained unknown or >| >| damaged code, so I went ahead and allowed it to refresh the code. It >| >| reported success but when I ran FIXMBR a second time, it still >| >| complained of unknown or damaged code. >| > >| > First I would question whether you cold rebooted between the two FIXMBR >| >[FIXMBR {ugh} which I found to be questionable when using] trys. >| >| I don't think I did.
> Kind of like fdisking a drive, gotta reboot.
The following MSKB article identifies a FIXMBR bug in the Win2K recovery console, but I wonder if it applies to WinXP Home as well.
When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following error message:
This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed. This could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to become inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing your drive, do not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?
RESOLUTION
Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of this article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.
STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft products that are listed at the beginning of this article.
MORE INFORMATION
The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
- Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:10:37 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com>
> I sent you, from the master site address, some zipped *readable text* of a >few files from XP PRO which might be of interest you [though you probably >already did]. Look at the command sequences, messages, and other. At >minimum, they give some search strings to work from when playing around in >XP and a hexeditor.
>"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message >news:ds01u3pu2iebbaubb9ifbvlm1sc5lgmtng@4ax.com... >| The following MSKB article identifies a FIXMBR bug in the Win2K >| recovery console, but I wonder if it applies to WinXP Home as well. >| >| Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command: >| http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/ >| >| SYMPTOMS >| >| When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows >| 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following >| error message: >| >| This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot >| record. >| MORE INFORMATION >| >| The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your >| computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state >| of the Master Boot Record (MBR). >| >| - Franc Zabkar
> Yeah, I remember that one now, likely part of the reason I asked what >versions you ran, IIRC, there was an update for XP [or maybe included in SP1 >or the DK] that was supposed to fix some of the old errors... another memory >sloshing around in the brain.. >-- >MEB >http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
How do you apply a service pack to the recovery console on a pressed CD? ;-|
- Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:fks2u3pfpb5g4n2mtpjp3d54r0qemlj0ha@4ax.com... | On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:15:51 -0400, "MEB" <meb@not h...@hotmail.com> | put finger to keyboard and composed: | | >"Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message | >news:ds01u3pu2iebbaubb9ifbvlm1sc5lgmtng@4ax.com... | | >| The following MSKB article identifies a FIXMBR bug in the Win2K | >| recovery console, but I wonder if it applies to WinXP Home as well. | >| | >| Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command: | >| http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/ | >| | >| SYMPTOMS | >| | >| When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows | >| 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following | >| error message: | >| | >| This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot | >| record. | | >| MORE INFORMATION | >| | >| The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your | >| computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state | >| of the Master Boot Record (MBR). | >| | >| - Franc Zabkar | > | > Yeah, I remember that one now, likely part of the reason I asked what | >versions you ran, IIRC, there was an update for XP [or maybe included in SP1 | >or the DK] that was supposed to fix some of the old errors... another memory | >sloshing around in the brain.. | >-- | >MEB | >http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com | | How do you apply a service pack to the recovery console on a pressed | CD? ;-| | | - Franc Zabkar | -- | Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
HAHAHA, good one. You don't, but the technique is called slip streaming for the disk you then create.
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