Distinguishing between a directory and a file
Angel Tsankov
foxidrive
> How do I check (in a batch file) if a file is a directory?
Here's one way:
@echo off
setlocal
if not exist %1 goto :EOF
for /f "delims=" %%a in ('dir %1 ^|find "<DIR>"') do set var=folder
if "%var%"=="folder" (echo %1 is a folder) else (echo %1 is a file)
Jerold Schulman
>How do I check (in a batch file) if a file is a directory?
See tip 10229 » How can a script determine if a file system object is a folder or a file? (03-Mar-06)
in the 'Tips & Tricks' at http://www.jsifaq.com
Jerold Schulman
Windows Server MVP
JSI, Inc.
http://www.jsiinc.com
http://www.jsifaq.com
Dean Wells [MVP]
... replace \windows per your requirements.
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Timo Salmi
> How do I check (in a batch file) if a file is a directory?
75} How do I detect if an object is a file or a folder?
59} How do I find if a folder exists? How about visible files in it?
157253 Mar 9 2006 ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tscmd.zip
tscmd.zip Useful NT/2000/XP script tricks and tips, T.Salmi
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Timo's FAQ materials at http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html
Timo Salmi
> if exist \windows\nul (echo yes) else (echo no)
Not in XP. A frequent misunderstanding. The null trick is about
MS-DOS+Win../95/98/Me.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Useful script files and tricks ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tscmd.zip
foxidrive
> Dean Wells [MVP] wrote:
>> if exist \windows\nul (echo yes) else (echo no)
>
> Not in XP. A frequent misunderstanding. The null trick is about
> MS-DOS+Win../95/98/Me.
It does work in XP, Timo. Rather elegant in its simplicity.
Dean Wells [MVP]
demonstrate where or under what conditions it fails?
I wouldn't label it a trick either, it's simply an artifact of the way
the shell handles well-known names (devices in this case) ... they exist
in every location.
--
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Timo Salmi
> Having tested this prior to posting, I find no problem. Can you
> demonstrate where or under what conditions it fails?
C:\>if exist "C:\Documents and Settings\nul" (echo yes) else (echo no)
no
Next test. Leave out the quotes, and nothing happens.
Next test this, and it goes right
C:\>if exist "C:\Documents and Settings\" (echo yes) else (echo no)
yes
These are tricky tasks.
Timo Salmi
> Dean Wells [MVP] wrote:
>> Having tested this prior to posting, I find no problem. Can you
>> demonstrate where or under what conditions it fails?
> These are tricky tasks.
Here is one of the ways to do it so that it works also for long paths
@echo off & setlocal enableextensions
if "%~1"=="" (
echo Usage: %~0 [FileOrFolderName]
goto :EOF
)
::
if not exist "%~1" (
echo File or folder "%~1" not found
goto :EOF
)
if exist "%~1\" (
echo "%~1" is a folder
) else (
echo "%~1" is a file
)
endlocal & goto :EOF
Timo Salmi
foxdrive, you will have seen my counter-example and how to get it
work by slightly altering Dean's solution. Your, and my FAQ's, dir
method is the other way to do this.
foxidrive
> Dean Wells [MVP] wrote:
>> Having tested this prior to posting, I find no problem. Can you
>> demonstrate where or under what conditions it fails?
>
> C:\>if exist "C:\Documents and Settings\nul" (echo yes) else (echo no)
> no
>
> Next test. Leave out the quotes, and nothing happens.
>
> Next test this, and it goes right
> C:\>if exist "C:\Documents and Settings\" (echo yes) else (echo no)
> yes
>
> These are tricky tasks.
It looks like you've provided the solution, Timo.
Add a backslash to the end of the item under test:
q:\>if exist "q:\Documents and Settings"\ (echo yes) else (echo no)
yes
q:\>if exist "q:\Documents and Settings" (echo yes) else (echo no)
yes
q:\>if exist "q:\Documents and Settings.txt" (echo yes) else (echo no)
yes
q:\>if exist "q:\Documents and Settings.txt"\ (echo yes) else (echo no)
no
so a solution would be
@echo off
if exist %1\ (echo folder) else (echo file)
Dean Wells [MVP]
also easily resolvable and perhaps something I should have mentioned
earlier --use variable substitution, e.g. - %~sI as preferred or use
foxidrive's solution and tack a slash on the end (outside of the
quotes).
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
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R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Joe Richards [MVP]
Command Line / Batch stuff.
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi
> LOL. Of all the people in the world, Dean isn't one I would
> question too much on Command Line / Batch stuff.
Still, you may wish to consider taking a closer look of the
subsequent posted tests and proof before overly LOLlin. None of us
always get everything right. Testing the code from all angles is
a better authority than the say-so of even the best of the lot.
Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
"Timo Salmi" <t...@uwasa.fi> wrote in message
news:%23XBgre0...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Joe Richards [MVP] wrote:
> > LOL. Of all the people in the world, Dean isn't one I would
> > question too much on Command Line / Batch stuff.
>
> Still, you may wish to consider taking a closer look of the
> subsequent posted tests and proof before overly LOLlin. None of us
> always get everything right.
Still, *some* people get it right way more often than others.
> Testing the code from all angles is
> a better authority than the say-so of even the best of the lot.
I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick "testing of the
code" proved that it works on XP too. So maybe "testing the code from all
angles" is a better authority than making statements based on one's own
particular assumptions.
/Al
Joe Richards [MVP]
> Not in XP. A frequent misunderstanding.
> The null trick is about MS-DOS+Win../95/98/Me.
>
> All the best, Timo
:o)
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi wrote:
Timo Salmi
> Thanks for posting such sage advice and I refer you to it.
The irony is not warranted. In programming authority, true or
perceived, is not what decides. Testing does. Do not take my or
anyone else's adavance word for which solution works and which not.
Try the examples and solutions posted and see for yourself.
Timo Salmi
>>> LOL. Of all the people in the world, Dean isn't one I would
>>> question too much on Command Line / Batch stuff.
>> Still, you may wish to consider taking a closer look of the
>> subsequent posted tests and proof before overly LOLlin. None of
>> us always get everything right.
> Still, *some* people get it right way more often than others.
Yes, Al. Most certainly. In fact, in my books you are included.
>> Testing the code from all angles is a better authority than the
>> say-so of even the best of the lot.
> I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick
> "testing of the code" proved that it works on XP too. So maybe
> "testing the code from all angles" is a better authority than
> making statements based on one's own particular assumptions.
Exactly my point too! And that's what I did as you will have seen.
Demonstrated where one commonly used method fails in XP, and how the
problem is readily solved. What more could one possibly want?
Timo Salmi
> I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick
> "testing of the code" proved that it works on XP too.
Al, try this
if exist "C:\Program Files\nul" echo yes
In Windows95 you'll get "yes" in XP you won't.
Next try
if exist "C:\Program Files\" echo yes
In Windows95 you'll get nothing, in XP you'll get yes.
Just plain and simple testing. As per "Testing the code from all
angles is a better authority than the say-so of even the best of the
lot" which Joe Richards threw back at my face, obviously without
checking first.
sali
> Al Dunbar [MS-MVP] wrote:
>> I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick
>> "testing of the code" proved that it works on XP too.
>
> Al, try this
> if exist "C:\Program Files\nul" echo yes
> In Windows95 you'll get "yes" in XP you won't.
>
i clearly remember that our code checking directory presence by checking
"nul" file was broken when migrated from netware to nt4 servers.
look at this:
C:\Documents and Settings\user1>if exist \progra~1\nul echo YES
YES
C:\Documents and Settings\user1>if exist \"program files"\nul echo YES
-- nothing --
of course, progra~1 is the short name for program files [checked with /x dir
switch]
seems like cmd engine gets confused with short/long names, double quoted as
well
Phil Robyn
> Al Dunbar [MS-MVP] wrote:
>
>> I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick
>> "testing of the code" proved that it works on XP too.
>
>
> Al, try this
> if exist "C:\Program Files\nul" echo yes
> In Windows95 you'll get "yes" in XP you won't.
>
> Next try
> if exist "C:\Program Files\" echo yes
> In Windows95 you'll get nothing, in XP you'll get yes.
>
> Just plain and simple testing. As per "Testing the code from all
> angles is a better authority than the say-so of even the best of the
> lot" which Joe Richards threw back at my face, obviously without
> checking first.
>
> All the best, Timo
>
Hi, Timo,
What about this one?
if exist "C:\Program Files\." echo yes
I don't have Windows95 so I cannot test it there.
--
Phil Robyn
University of California, Berkeley
Timo Salmi
> Hi, Timo,
> What about this one?
> if exist "C:\Program Files\." echo yes
> I don't have Windows95 so I cannot test it there.
Hello Phil,
Works on XP, does not work on Windows95. The latter surprises me a
bit. Before testing I kind of expected it to work. It sounded a very
good idea.
Phil Robyn
> Phil Robyn wrote:
>
>> Hi, Timo,
>> What about this one?
>> if exist "C:\Program Files\." echo yes
>> I don't have Windows95 so I cannot test it there.
>
>
> Hello Phil,
>
> Works on XP, does not work on Windows95. The latter surprises me a
> bit. Before testing I kind of expected it to work. It sounded a very
> good idea.
>
> All the best, Timo
>
Noted. Thanks, Timo, for testing on Windows95.
Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
> Al Dunbar [MS-MVP] wrote:
> > I had thought the trick to be DOS/9x-based only, but a quick
> > "testing of the code" proved that it works on XP too.
>
> Al, try this
> if exist "C:\Program Files\nul" echo yes
> In Windows95 you'll get "yes" in XP you won't.
>
> Next try
> if exist "C:\Program Files\" echo yes
> In Windows95 you'll get nothing, in XP you'll get yes.
>
> Just plain and simple testing. As per "Testing the code from all
> angles is a better authority than the say-so of even the best of the
> lot" which Joe Richards threw back at my face, obviously without
> checking first.
touche'
/Al
Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
"Phil Robyn" <pro...@berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:%238wrs9E...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Timo Salmi wrote:
> > Phil Robyn wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, Timo,
> >> What about this one?
> >> if exist "C:\Program Files\." echo yes
> >> I don't have Windows95 so I cannot test it there.
> >
> >
> > Hello Phil,
> >
> > Works on XP, does not work on Windows95. The latter surprises me a
> > bit. Before testing I kind of expected it to work. It sounded a very
> > good idea.
> >
> > All the best, Timo
> >
>
> Noted. Thanks, Timo, for testing on Windows95.
Perhaps one way to get all platforms to give the same result is to precede
the IF statement with something like:
FORMAT C:
though I'm sure someone will point out that the syntax of various versions
of this command may differ somewhat...
/Al
foxidrive
I think NTish Windows will stop format from formatting the system
partition. :)
Joe Richards [MVP]
Is that good? :)
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi
> I certainly didn't take your advice that nul was a Windows
> ME/95/98 only trick. Is that good? :)
Especially after all the detailed tests posted and discussed by Al,
Phil, foxdrive, and yours truly, I really don't get your drift. Not
that this really matters.
Dean Wells [MVP]
To me, your original response remains inaccurate. You stated, without
apparent exception, that the solution is limited in use to Windows 95
etc. and does not function under XP. It does function under XP within
the constraints I later provided when responding to your original reply
(i.e., use short-names). The scenario you described incorporating long
file names is indeed a valid point and well worth a mention (as I
acknowledged) but, again, does not prohibit the use of the "nul"
solution in 2000/XP/Vista or limit that use exclusively to earlier
versions of the OS. The following (albeit a more thorough derivative)
is functioning adequately for me in a number of scripts executing ~daily
on Windows 2000, XP and Vista -
if exist %~s1\nul (echo yes) else (echo no)
This is not to say that caveats don't exist, I've encountered was of
"breaking" most anything within shell script. In this context for
example, the use of a UNC path submitted directly against SMB/CIFS
servers responds badly but is both easily handled and mitigated.
As an aside, MS-DOS, Windows 95,98 & ME were outside the scope of my
answer since the original post was exclusively submitted to a Windows
2000 newsgroup ... were the msdos/batch groups included, I may feel
differently.
Regards.
Dean
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Timo Salmi
> Phew, this one grew a life of its own!
I, too, Dean, am getting more than a bit tired of this. Way out of
proportion.
> To me, your original response remains inaccurate. You stated,
> without apparent exception, that the solution is limited in use to
> Windows 95
Please do not nitpick about the unessentials of the wording of one
single message in the thread. Whatever the fine print, the
unequivocal point remains that the original solution you provided is
not generic. I provided the counterexamples you asked for. And I
showed how to solve the task given on the subject line. I really
don't understand what more do can can you good MVPs still want.
We have a common goal, better script solutions. I have no problem
about it with you. But I did not like Joe's off-hand unwarranted LOLs
and I still don't like the attitude of his postings in this.
I can't help but begin to suspect that this is some kind of a case
of hurt MVP prestige where one can't stand the fact that others, as
well, can have solutions and that everyone (you and me included) can
post incomplete or non-working code. The prestige of the MVPs is not
diminished in any way by an incomplete solution. But the need to play
down others does.
Please let's leave be, at least you and I.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Timo's FAQ materials at http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html
Dean Wells [MVP]
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
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R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Timo Salmi wrote:
> Dean Wells [MVP] wrote:
>> Phew, this one grew a life of its own!
>
> I, too, Dean, am getting more than a bit tired of this. Way out of
> proportion.
>
>> To me, your original response remains inaccurate. You stated,
>> without apparent exception, that the solution is limited in use to
>> Windows 95
>
> Please do not nitpick about the unessentials of the wording of one
> single message in the thread. Whatever the fine print, the
> unequivocal point remains that the original solution you provided is
> not generic.
Prior to your enclosed post, I'd been working on the assumption you were
simply missing my point, I'm quite certain that's no longer the case.
This is not nitpicking, your statement was inaccurate -- nothing less.
The rest of the thread was spawned from that premise so, to me, it's
more than merely a single message in the thread -- it became a secondary
point.
> I provided the counterexamples you asked for. And I
> showed how to solve the task given on the subject line. I really
> don't understand what more do can can you good MVPs still want.
... and I countered those, something to which you've yet to respond ...
even once!
I fail to see the relevance of the MVP program, there are quite
literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of MVPs, and yet you collectively
refer to each and everyone one and proceed to pass judgment based on the
content of a single thread containing contributions from only 3?
> We have a common goal, better script solutions. I have no problem
> about it with you. But I did not like Joe's off-hand unwarranted LOLs
> and I still don't like the attitude of his postings in this.
I took no issue prior to this post from you, one that I find off-hand
and quite deliberate in its purpose. I read Joe's post as a joke ... no
doubt the manner in which it was intended. I don't know your reasons
for taking offense to its wording but they're certainly less obvious
than mine for being mildly irritated at your desire to have the last
word in a thread when your first was incorrect.
> I can't help but begin to suspect that this is some kind of a case
> of hurt MVP prestige
Prestige? No, I don't believe so, but speaking for myself, I'm quite
certainly irritated by your tone.
> where one can't stand the fact that others, as
> well, can have solutions and that everyone (you and me included) can
> post incomplete or non-working code.
I obviously don't question the incomplete aspect of my original post, a
single line of code will rarely suffice ... though as I'm quite you're
aware, it was intended to serve as an example. I do, however, question
the "non-working" aspect since it functions more than adequately ... and
I'll say it one more time --you've still not addressed a single one of
the working scenarios I have submitted.
> The prestige of the MVPs is not
> diminished in any way by an incomplete solution. But the need to play
> down others does.
I don't understand what motivates such a comment in this context, the
first hostile post was made by you, the response was, IMO,
understandable.
As I said, I was more than comfortable with the back & forth of the
debate to this point and was simply hoping you'd address my retort(s),
instead you chose to defend your position and lay blame at the feet of
others for words you claim were motivated by ego or the like, those
characteristics are exhibited only by the continual change in your
position.
Timo Salmi
>> Dean Wells [MVP] wrote:
> Prior to your enclosed post, I'd been working on the assumption
> you were simply missing my point, I'm quite certain that's no
>> I provided the counterexamples you asked for. And I showed how
>> to solve the task given on the subject line. I really don't
>> understand what more do can can you good MVPs still want.
> and I countered those, something to which you've yet to respond
> ... even once!
Countered! No, corrected! You showed, quite feasibly, which other
method (the short name method) can be used when your original
fails. I showed another method to solve the entire subject problem. A
method not relying on LFN SFN conversion. This was about finding
solutions, not eliminating each other's codes.
> I took no issue prior to this post from you, one that I find
> off-hand and quite deliberate in its purpose. I read Joe's post
> as a joke ... no doubt the manner in which it was intended.
That's your personal perception since it was written so favorably to
you. Why should it be mine, since it really seemed and felt critical
and off-hand.
> you've still not addressed a single one of the working scenarios I
> have submitted.
Where and when did I say that your later version would have been
wrong? I didn't and I don't. Nor, have I questioned your competence.
We both provided working solution _after_ looking more fully and
testing the matter!
> continual change in your position.
That's rubbish. There is no change in my position. Your original code
was inaccurate, as is human in anyone's programming. You asked how, I
so demonstrated how and how to correct it! Is that overly difficult
to fathom? Then you posted an alternative, working method.
> speaking for myself, I'm quite certainly irritated by your tone.
Likewise, I was and am still highly irritated by the "the upstart
outsider questions savant's code, LOL!" attitude. That really bugs me
as elitist.
I am sorry to say that the irate feeling has obviously become more
and more the center of this exchange. It is clear that our
perception of the events are very different. Fortunately, only the
end results (both codes that now work) decide and are essential.
Once more, we now have at least two generally working methods (your
and mine) which we did not have at the outset. WHAT MORE DOES ONE
WANT IN HERE!
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Timo Salmi
> Inline ...
Incidentally, and rhetorically, what was the point in posting in a
format where one had to manually cut and paste what you wrote? At
least my Mozilla mail only shows what is quoted in the above.
P.S. and more importantly. I know from very long-standing experience
on the Usenet news that there is only one way to break this kind of a
vicious circle we are involved in. I have myself to take to
initiative not to respond to any more postings in this particular
thread to you or Joe. I promise at least to try to ignore everything
related after this.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Dean Wells [MVP]
would be lost. I am satisfied with my previous post and standy by my
comments, your reply serves only to fuel my point.
I remain disappointed.
Dean Wells [MVP]
To your second; I'm quite sure since I would imagine you feel you've had
the last word and, as such, are now comfortable taking the moral
high-ground ... take comfort in that perspective.
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
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Timo Salmi
> To your first point; petty ... and a quite deliberate choice on my
> part.
So there is a mean streak in you. That is what is petty. Deliberately
making responding difficult.
> To your second; I'm quite sure since I would imagine you feel
> you've had the last word and, as such, are now comfortable taking
> the moral high-ground ... take comfort in that perspective.
Ditto! And you still did't get the essence. The resultant codes are
all that matter. If you are after whatever kind of a win, please feel
having achieved it to your heart's content and be ever happy.
Good night!
Dean Wells [MVP]
failed to try hard enough (now that's the first time I've smiled while
contributing to this thread today) but this time you couple it with
vindictive spite ... a path that I confess you're leading me down ...
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Stefan Kanthak
[...]
> The following (albeit a more thorough derivative)
> is functioning adequately for me in a number of scripts executing ~daily
> on Windows 2000, XP and Vista -
>
> if exist %~s1\nul (echo yes) else (echo no)
>
> This is not to say that caveats don't exist,
NTFS8dot3NameCreation for example?
This setting is recommended by MSFT in the W2K AD setup guidelines.
I'm using it on all my machines since NT4, and since I disabled it
in SETUPREG.HIV no single file/directory name has a "short" entry.
*I*'d never recommend a solution that doesn't work in general, at
least without placing a big CAVEAT anywhere around it, if I know
about it shortcomings.
Stefan
Dean Wells [MVP]
familiar nor do I understand its motivation, would you provide a link to
the document you reference so I can put it in context ... thanks much.
Regards.
Dean
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
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Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
non-MVP's alike. So who's winning?
To Timo: phrases like "hurt MVP prestige", "the upstart outsider questions
savant's code, LOL!" and other unsavory characterizations of those you
disagree with in this thread do you no service here. There is no such thing,
in my view, of MVP's feeling that they are somehow "better" than others,
whether this means smarter, more knowledgeable, more professional, more
polite, or whatever.
To Dean: please don't get lead down that path! Oops, I might have said that
just a bit too late...
To both: There is no doubt that you are both valued contributors here,
however much we do not always agree on everything. Scrapping about
personal/personality issues will benefit nobody here - certainly not those
who are asking the questions we answer. Same comment about trying to save
face by pointing out errors in each other's logic, whether the logic
associated with scripting or the logic associated with carrying on a usenet
argument.
/Al
"Dean Wells [MVP]" <dwe...@mask.msetechnology.com> wrote in message
news:%23Ub$FDuTGH...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Timo Salmi
> Sheesh, guys, enough already. We seem to be giving a bad name to
> MVP's and non-MVP's alike. So who's winning?
> To Dean: please don't get lead down that path!
> personal/personality issues will benefit nobody here - certainly
> not those who are asking the questions we answer. Same comment
> about trying to save face by pointing out errors in each other's
> logic, whether the logic associated with scripting or the logic
> associated with carrying on a usenet argument.
Al, agreed. It seems, at least between the lines, that I am held the
worse culprit. Fair enough. Had I not tested and responded to the
path\nul solution posted, and especially had I not reacted strongly
to the third-party comment about my take on the original script
programming problem under the different platforms, this clearly would
not have happened at all. I can't deny this.
There has to be a way to wind this cleanly down. It is best if I do
not comment on any solutions presented by others. Just post my own
codes, or not at all. Improving script codes definitely is not worth
these kinds of a tensions. I'll try to see to it that I don't step on
any toes from now on.
Timo Salmi
> ... you changed your position yet again, though I suppose you'll
Sorry Dean. I will not fall for this line any more. Let's both take
Al's advice and leave be.
Phil Robyn
> Al Dunbar [MS-MVP] wrote:
>
>> Sheesh, guys, enough already. We seem to be giving a bad name to MVP's
>> and non-MVP's alike. So who's winning?
>
>
>> To Dean: please don't get lead down that path!
>
>
>> personal/personality issues will benefit nobody here - certainly not
>> those who are asking the questions we answer. Same comment about
>> trying to save face by pointing out errors in each other's logic,
>> whether the logic associated with scripting or the logic associated
>> with carrying on a usenet argument.
>
>
> Al, agreed. It seems, at least between the lines, that I am held the
> worse culprit. Fair enough. Had I not tested and responded to the
> path\nul solution posted, and especially had I not reacted strongly
> to the third-party comment about my take on the original script
> programming problem under the different platforms, this clearly would
> not have happened at all. I can't deny this.
>
> There has to be a way to wind this cleanly down. It is best if I do
> not comment on any solutions presented by others. Just post my own
> codes, or not at all. Improving script codes definitely is not worth
> these kinds of a tensions. I'll try to see to it that I don't step on
> any toes from now on.
>
> All the best, Timo
>
Hi, Timo,
Please feel free to step on *my* toes anytime you want. You have made
many invaluable contributions to this and other newsgroups.
Jerold Schulman
The real Value Name is NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation.
See tip 0026 » NTFS - Disable 8.3 Name creation. 01-Jan-97
in the 'Tips & Tricks' at http://www.jsifaq.com
http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=121007 "How to Disable the 8.3 Name Creation on NTFS Partitions "
Jerold Schulman
Windows Server MVP
JSI, Inc.
http://www.jsiinc.com
http://www.jsifaq.com
Jerold Schulman
The real Value Name is NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation.
See tip 0026 » NTFS - Disable 8.3 Name creation. 01-Jan-97
in the 'Tips & Tricks' at http://www.jsifaq.com
http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=121007 "How to Disable the 8.3 Name Creation on NTFS Partitions "
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:49:05 -0500, "Dean Wells [MVP]" <dwe...@mask.msetechnology.com> wrote:
>That's a fair point ... it's a recommendation with which I'm not
>familiar nor do I understand its motivation, would you provide a link to
>the document you reference so I can put it in context ... thanks much.
>
>Regards.
>
>Dean
Jerold Schulman
Dean Wells [MVP]
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Dean Wells [MVP]
interesting justification. With that in mind, the use of short-names as
a solution to the "nul" directory detection method would be troublesome
at best ... thanks for the info.
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Stefan Kanthak
[NTFSDisable8dot3NameCreation]
> With Jerold's assistance, I found the recommendation ... it's an
> interesting justification.
Yeah, it's interesting, although not correct: most 16-bit applications
still run here. The most typical error I encounter is "pathname to long"
when they try to access %TEMP%.
Interesting side note: Microsoft changed that in Windows XP (see MSKB
840214):
CMD.EXE /K ECHO %TEMP% yields %UserProfile%\Local Settings\TEMP, while
COMMAND.COM /K ECHO %TEMP% yields %Windir%\TEMP.
Oh, and while you're there in COMMAND.COM: check the difference between
ECHO %COMSPEC% and SET | FIND "COMSPEC".
And then try SET COMSPEC=%COMSPEC% and wonder, why after that ECHO and
SET show %COMSPEC%=%COMSPEC%.
There's but another motivation: sort out crappy applications that can't
handle pathnames with spaces. Fortunately the english versions of Windows
have such pathnames in %ProgramFiles%, %UserProfile% and %TEMP%.
> With that in mind, the use of short-names as
> a solution to the "nul" directory detection method would be troublesome
> at best ... thanks for the info.
Correct.
Stefan
PS: Your sicknature is quite long!
Would you mind to stop top posting. The netiquette recommends inline!
And address munging is considered harmfull.
David Candy
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"Stefan Kanthak" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:OQEXc0FU...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Stefan Kanthak
^
Convention tells to use a valid email address.
> Convention has 4 lines for a signature. I count 4.
Count again; take your posting this time: 44 lines!
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4 =================================================
5 "Stefan Kanthak" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:OQEXc0FU...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
6 > "Dean Wells [MVP]" <dwe...@mask.msetechnology.com> wrote:
7 >
8 > [NTFSDisable8dot3NameCreation]
9 >
10 >> With Jerold's assistance, I found the recommendation ... it's an
11 >> interesting justification.
12 >
13 > Yeah, it's interesting, although not correct: most 16-bit applications
14 > still run here. The most typical error I encounter is "pathname to long"
15 > when they try to access %TEMP%.
16 >
17 > Interesting side note: Microsoft changed that in Windows XP (see MSKB
18 > 840214):
19 >
20 > CMD.EXE /K ECHO %TEMP% yields %UserProfile%\Local Settings\TEMP, while
21 > COMMAND.COM /K ECHO %TEMP% yields %Windir%\TEMP.
22 >
23 > Oh, and while you're there in COMMAND.COM: check the difference between
24 > ECHO %COMSPEC% and SET | FIND "COMSPEC".
25 > And then try SET COMSPEC=%COMSPEC% and wonder, why after that ECHO and
26 > SET show %COMSPEC%=%COMSPEC%.
27 >
28 >
29 > There's but another motivation: sort out crappy applications that can't
30 > handle pathnames with spaces. Fortunately the english versions of Windows
31 > have such pathnames in %ProgramFiles%, %UserProfile% and %TEMP%.
32 >
33 >> With that in mind, the use of short-names as
34 >> a solution to the "nul" directory detection method would be troublesome
35 >> at best ... thanks for the info.
36 >
37 > Correct.
38 >
39 > Stefan
40 >
41 > PS: Your sicknature is quite long!
42 > Would you mind to stop top posting. The netiquette recommends inline!
43 > And address munging is considered harmfull.
44 >
Stefan
BTW: Herzlichen Glueckwunsch zum Namenstag: heute ist Vollquottel!
David Candy
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"Stefan Kanthak" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:O7DUeeH...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Dean Wells [MVP]
will, I give my time to assist others at no personal gain (other than
self satisfaction) -- I chose to do that in a manner that works well for
me ... enough said.
As for my munging my email addy, I absolutely cannot be following you
here since to post a valid recipient address is beyond explanation ...
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Stefan Kanthak
> I'm at a loss for words re: your comments ... I post of my own free
> will, I give my time to assist others at no personal gain (other than
> self satisfaction) -- I chose to do that in a manner that works well for
> me ... enough said.
We all here post for fun, not for profit.
The "works [well] for me" seems but symptomatic (as with bad code):
shouldn't it read "works well for all [your] readers"?
WFM just shows how much you care about them (frankly speaking)!
That's what the internet standards like RFC 1036 and RFC 1855 are about,
and its ABSOLUTELY annoying to have top postings with the umpteenth full
quote of some 100+ lines to download.
Remember: not everybody has DSL or cable, most still use modems or ISDN.
> As for my munging my email addy, I absolutely cannot be following you
> here since to post a valid recipient address is beyond explanation ...
Just reply to one of my postings by email: I'll receive it.
SPAM to that address will but be filtered, either due to the missing
"Re: " in the subject or the missing "In-Reply-To: " or "References: ".
Address munging shifts YOUR spam problem to others, either the people
who want to email you (instead of posting, as recommended in RFC 1036
and RFC 1855) or the people who get the SPAM to your address bounced
when their's is abused as "From: ".
Remember: NUAs rely on valid headers, and people with working NUAs don't
see signatures because they are removed when editing the reply.
fup2p
Stefan
Stefan Kanthak
> Can't you count, Two lines of lines and two lines of text = 4 lines for me.
A signature starts after a single line "\n-- \n".
Your's is now 64 lines long (but fortunately removed in compliance with RFC
1036).
> and 4 lines of text = 4 lines for OP.
> You need to ask MS why they delete posts with my email address in it.
They have reason to do;-) Have you tried to stick with the netiquette and
see if they still delete your posts?
Have you ever asked the newsmaster? He reads "microsoft.public.msnewservers"
for example.
fup2 microsoft.public.msnewservers
Stefan
Dean Wells [MVP]
Your opinions about the manner in which I do that serve no purpose
except to offend.
--
Dean Wells [MVP / Directory Services]
MSEtechnology
[[ Please respond to the Newsgroup only regarding posts ]]
R e m o v e t h e m a s k t o s e n d e m a i l
Timo Salmi
conventions concerning post-quoting (aka top-posting) and signature
composition may find of some use the following links, and the links
contained in there:
http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html
http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html
Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
"Dean Wells [MVP]" <dwe...@mask.msetechnology.com> wrote in message
news:%23RT1DiP...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> This is all so utterly unnecessary. Please, just allow me to post.
> Your opinions about the manner in which I do that serve no purpose
> except to offend.
... and also to generate more text that people need to deal with, which was
his complaint about an apparently overlong tag line. Kind of like paying for
a round-trip bus ticket to go pick up a penny you realize fell out of your
pocket while getting on the bus - the net gain is negative.
/Al
Stefan Kanthak
>
> "Dean Wells [MVP]" <dwe...@mask.msetechnology.com> wrote in message
> news:%23RT1DiP...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > This is all so utterly unnecessary. Please, just allow me to post.
> > Your opinions about the manner in which I do that serve no purpose
> > except to offend.
>
> ... and also to generate more text that people need to deal with, which was
> his complaint about an apparently overlong tag line.
I like people who just read superficial, don't get the point and comment
about it showing their lack of comprehension: it's not about the tag line,
it's about completely superfluous full quotes and top posting like yours!
*You* *comment* *on* *just* *on* *sentence* *but* *quote* *the* *whole*
*article* *once* *again*!
> Kind of like paying for
> a round-trip bus ticket to go pick up a penny you realize fell out of your
> pocket while getting on the bus - the net gain is negative.
Negative is that you don't care for the majority of people who still use
a modem!
Stefan
[braindead full quote removed ... the umpteenth time]
David Candy
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"Stefan Kanthak" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:eUbebIYU...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Joe Richards [MVP]
Quoting RFCs and being the top versus bottom post czar/nazi/meter maid does
nothing to give your posts any value nor you any credibility. You had one decent
post and then you just started whining like a wet baby pulled away from mamma's
breast. Why? Do you have nothing better to do?
You can whine all you want about the top posting versus bottom posting and the
length of signatures but at the end of the day, no one cares about posting
etiquette if they get their question answered. I have been posting and receiving
newsgroup posts since about 1989 and not even then did anyone whine as much as
some of the folks do today about top posting and back then it was a pain in the
ass to try and top post, not the default as it is now. With the current GUI
clients it is often much easier to view posts that are top posted. Of course
that means nothing to you because you would rather whine and point at RFCs that
matter no one little bit in the global scheme of things.
Honestly, the only folks that really care about the posting location are the
ones who apparently have a stick up their ass and are more concerned about the
delivery than the actual information. This is on par with being pissed that
someone took a bicycle to a concert instead of car. Absolutely pointless. You
are not going to change a single person from what they do with your arguments,
so deal with it and if I may be so bold, your posts are generating more traffic
than what you are bitching about. Me personally, I have 7Mbs bandwidth
available, I like seeing the full message including the entire chain in top
posting order and will continue to do so whether you, the person who asks the
question, or anyone else disagrees. In my opinion you are lucky I took time out
of my day to say anything you are privy to let alone go find a post that someone
is asking a question in and helping them out. I can find much better uses for my
time especially if all I get back in response are whining mewling posts. To put
it more clearly so you don't have to read between the lines I respond in my own
way, if you aren't happy with that, don't read my responses. I will try to find
it in my heart to be disappointed. I expect you will find most people feel the
same way. If you really want to show me, walk away from the computer and go to
the bookstore and refuse to buy my book. At the very least we will get some
peace and quiet while you are gone. In fact, how about you go to the bookstore
and refuse to buy my book all day every day for now on? Feel free to take signs
and banners to that affect. I am sure you will get just loads of attention from
that and I would enjoy the free publicity. :)
As for Timo Salami, he got all upset based on me simply complimenting someone
else and somehow deriving that to be an insult against him. That is outstanding
deductive reasoning and logic. Glad to see he is in the Department of Accounting
and Business Finance versus computer science or logic. You would have to start
questioning the quality of every student coming out of the University of Vaasa.
And just to be clear, now that you can take as an insult. There are no smiley
faces here and I mean to say that he is a putz and he is lucky I am not one of
his students as I expect I would take him to task over various things, college
teachers didn't scare me when I was at university and certainly don't now.
After that I responded again in a sarcastic manner with a smiley pointing out he
was at fault for exactly what he was trying to take others to task. This caused
him to further burst his panties. Quiet honestly, I don't care, I think it is
funny, well I thought he was funny at first, now I consider him to be a very sad
insecure person who doesn't like people questioning him. That is truly bad for a
"professor" in my opinion, he should be ready to be questioned at any given
moment and debate in an intellectual manner which he has failed to do to the nth
degree here. But then, I have found far too many tenured university professors
who never leave the campus and actually understand the things in life they are
trying to teach people about. Instead choosing to sit in the safety of their
classroom telling students things like they were the last word on the topic and
being quite upset by any challenges to what is being described. They think they
can always win there, they control the grading. Unfortunately for them, the real
world doesn't work that way. Anyone who has experienced both the real world and
the world of the university can tell you there are no similarities betwixt the two.
Anyway, good luck to you Stephan with your RFC / top-bottom posting and
signature tirade. I don't feel you will accomplish anything other than boosting
the traffic you are so concerned about and making people laugh at you for being
so anal but hey, whatever wiggles your pickle for you dude.
take care, joe
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Joe Richards [MVP]
the situation. :o)
I certainly couldn't stop laughing though and for that I thank you.
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Stefan Kanthak
> My goodness Stefan, you are quite full of yourself aren't you?
Better be full of myself than something else.
> Quoting RFCs and being the top versus bottom post czar/nazi/meter maid does
Nice comparison, that will expedite things. Ask Mike Goodwin.
[...]
> Me personally, I have 7Mbs bandwidth
> available, I like seeing the full message including the entire chain in top
> posting order and will continue to do so whether you, the person who asks the
> question, or anyone else disagrees.
So in short you're saying: I don't care whether other people can follow
news without having broadband access, I don't care for rules of conduct?!
I bet you haven't heard about "form follows function" yet.
> As for Timo Salami,
Nice try.
[...]
> so anal but hey, whatever wiggles your pickle for you dude.
That speaks for itself and it's writer.
Stefan
Joe Richards [MVP]
RE: bandwidth... Sure if that wiggles your pickle.
Overall I am just trying to outline for you that someone who needs help doesn't
care the form in which it comes. People with sticks up their asses do. I like to
point that out to newsposting/listserv cops such as yourself.
Don't mistake requests/guidelines with rules/laws. One set is enforced and has
penalties for failure to comply, the other just causes people to bark about how
the world isn't fair. You are just going to get a sore throat with the barking.
However, if that is what you have fun doing, knock yourself out.
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi
> Mike Goodwin... Don't know nor care who Mike Goodwin is
> That is truly bad for a "professor" ...
> I have found far too many tenured university professors who
> never leave the campus ... the real world ...
Dear Joe,
It unfortunately is not uncommon to be ignorant of common net lore
such as Godwin's Law, dismissive of manners, and show signs of
academic underachiever trauma. A familiar phenomenon on the net.
But I know your colors now for better avoidance in the future.
Timo Salmi
> Mike Goodwin... Don't know nor care who Mike Goodwin is
> As for Timo Salami, ...
> That is truly bad for a "professor" ...
> I have found far too many tenured university professors who never
Joe Richards [MVP]
I have no academic underachiever trauma; I was correcting professors on real
life points my first year in university having more real life work experience in
big business than a majority of them by that point with small companies such as
EDS and General Motors. I tended to find that "visiting" professors tended to
have considerably more real life understanding than staff/tenured professors.
There is a reason for fairly well known statements such as "Those who can't do,
teach" and "College is an idealized environment, it reflects the real world like
Playboy reflects real women". That being said, I think Universities and
professors are a generally good thing as long as they don't make the mistake
that what they know about the idealized artificial environment they foster makes
them experts on things in the real world. You can have a professor who
understands the real world implications and implementations in their area of
specialty as well as they understand their artificial environment, but it is not
even close to being guaranteed. Too bad really. This is why many college kids
get the crap kicked out of them when they go out into the real world with the
concept that it works like the artificial idealized world they grew up in.
joe
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi
> I have no academic underachiever trauma; I was correcting
> professors on real life points my first year in university having
> more real life work experience in big business than a majority of
>
>
kind of bragging under the circumstances, though.
> "Those who can't do, teach" and "College is an idealized
> environment ...
How commonly pedestrian. And college? You are confusing teaching
institution goals with the universities. Universities are above all
about scientific research.
Those who do not have what it takes to do scientific research will
have to toil in the real-life. For most it is a good and profitable
choice. No argument there. However, with the restricted talents it
also often is the only option. My problem might in your view be being
in the ivory tower, but much rather that than being just another dime
in the dozen. Been there too, but don't have to.
Be this as may, this is a futile discussion, and a most unpleasant
acquaintance.
Al Dunbar [MS-MVP]
"Joe Richards [MVP]" <humore...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ediuGvL...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
One thing I learned in the real world (ok, perhaps just *my* real world) is
that generalizations have limitations, and believing in them as if they were
truths can, in fact, hide the truth.
I understand the mentality of which you speak. But where I went to
university we had a professor who had been involved with the design of the
chunnel. And not a theoretical model, mind you, but the one actually built
in the real world. And he was not alone in the depth of his real-world
experiences.
/Al
<snip>
Timo Salmi
> One thing I learned in the real world (ok, perhaps just *my* real
> world) is that generalizations have limitations, and believing in
> them as if they were truths can, in fact, hide the truth.
In my long years I have learned that the kind of strutting behavior
and profession bashing Joe is putting on display often is a result
overcompensating for one's unconscious traumas from one's studying
years. But whatever, it does not make sense, since the newsgroup is
about programming scripts and such. Let's concentrate on them.
Joe Richards [MVP]
astute observations and analysis Professor Salmi! (Why does my spell checker
keep trying to change your name to Salami?)
So do your students know that even though they pay all of that money they are
not first on the list of things the university is there for? I attended one of
the larger universities celebrated for research in several major fields
including vet medicine, packaging, particle physics that brought folks in from
around the world to study and learn. While certainly the research done there was
important, students mostly didn't attend for that research, they attended to
learn or probably more accurately for most people, get a degree that says they
learned. Without those students, the university wouldn't survive as the funding
for the research outside of the student fees and government assistance offered
because it was a learning institution wouldn't support the research.
Additionally being a learning facility, projects that normally couldn't support
staff from a budget perspective could in the name of "class credit" and simply
being present to.... you guessed it... learn. Basically it is like a lot of the
lab workers are interns working for very little or no money.
I certainly see value in universities. Both because it gives people a chance to
just sit back and study for studies sake without any risk to real world position
but also because it is a great way to weed through people who choose fields that
don't really fit them. Quite a few get through feeling that since they conquered
the university they must be perfect for the real world for the same thing but
nothing is perfect. Unfortunately, most all of them learn quickly the
differences and find that university didn't prepare them for much and they
either learned the real lesson they should have learned (you need to never stop
learning and you have to be willing to adapt) or they go off and find something
else to do be it labor market stuff or return to the educational system to
propagate what they previously learned. I had the luck and foresight to work in
the real industry at 16/17/18 prior to going to university so I could properly
discount things being said that were presented as real world which very
obviously, to me at least, weren't. Not everyone is so lucky unfortunately. Lots
of folks coming out of school even now thinking the whole world is doing all of
their coding in Java on Linux for an example.
Again as I said before, not all university and college level instructors have
this failing, however the odds seem to be stacked against them for the most
part. The ones who spend considerable time actually working in the real world
and going back to university to teach are the ones who tend to have the best
grasp on the real world for obvious reasons. If they are really good they easily
get hired away from universities into real world companies who are willing AND
ABLE to pay the big salaries and supply the budgets for folks who really can
accomplish amazing things.
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
Timo Salmi
[Personal views about universities, and, I am afraid, still some
confusion with a college/polytechnics emphasis.]
Dear Joe,
Thank you for your continued interest in university vs. business
career matters. However, I am ending my involvement in this newsgroup
with you in this off-track exchange that has little to do with script
programming.
David Candy
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How to lose a war in Iraq
http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1335#comment-48641
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"Timo Salmi" <t...@uwasa.fi> wrote in message news:%23EZv%23UwaG...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Joe Richards [MVP]
--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net
---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm