C++ Programmer's Goldmine is on line now: http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
pgadmin
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
Programmer's Goldmine Collections (Java Goldmine, MFC Goldmine, C++ Goldmine)
contain over half a million articles on all aspects of several programming
languages, categorized by set of related isuues on any aspect of language,
development, IDE, O/S, networking, serialization, abstract classes,
inheritance, polymorphism, multithreading, Internet, debugging, installation
and many more different categories.
Each category contains a number of separate sections on:
Code snippets and examples
(typically between 200 and 1000 articles per category/chapter)
Expert Opinions and Views
These are the articles by the people, who know some issue in sufficient detail
to provide some answers on a given issue,
Relevant links
Each chapter has between 20 and 200 links, automatically extracted from the
articles in this category.
Reference Material
There are links to the outside sites, where specific issues are adressed.
There is a short summary of the contents of the links.
Syndicated Feeds
A number of relevant feeds (updated once per hour)
Forums
This is where people can discuss whatever they wish to discuss
Polls
Polls are conducted on the hot issues.
Other things, not described above.
Following Goldmine Collections are currently on line:
JavaGoldmine http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
MFCGoldmine http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html (select MFC Goldmine)
Covers all sorts of issues on Microsoft Visual C and specifically the MFC.
C++ Goldmine http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
Covers all the C++ related issues, topics, language, techniques
You can leave a feedback, participate in forums, provide some ideas for
collection, recommend someone to be included in the expert section, write
articles to be available on the News pool, review the syndicated feeds, learn
things, share your ideas, and do anything you can imagine, as long, as your
intent is pure and sincere.
Please, no whiners and complainers on the site.
We are only interested in constructive suggestions, ideas, requests for
specific information, custom research on any topic or item (paid service, send
email with exact specification of what you are looking for).
If you notice some SPECIFIC problems with a collection, please be exact and
specific, if you decide to comment on it.
It is not a problem to discuss ANY problem, but at the end, it has to lead to
some solution. Otherwise, it is a royal waste of time. There is plenty of
other places you can visit to waste your time and we provide you with PLENTY
of links, THOUSANDS of them, so you can go waste your time somewhere else.
Otherwise,
Welcome and enjoy.
P.S.
If you would like to participate in the project, drop us a line. There is
always a need of people, who have a good grasp of information as such,
regardless of which area of interest we are talking about. There are a number
of pretty interesting things currently in the pipeline.
Stay tuned...
-- PGAdmin
--
JavaGoldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (Main site)
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
(use this one for Google searches site:tarkus01.by.ru)
C++ Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (Main site, select MFC Goldmine)
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Java, C++ and MFC/VC Goldmine collections contain over
100,000 articles on Java, C, C++, C#, VC and MFC in over
50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views, relevant syndication feeds,
forums, chat, news, feedback, polls and more.
Extensive collection of relevant link with link summaries.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
You can submit your site, recommend some site to be included,
provide links, comment on too many/too few articles in some
chapter, provide suggestions, view feeds, participate in forums,
chat, participate in polls, read/write articles, etc.
Note:
Sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
It has has the biggest Google index.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
Brian Muth
of advertising.
Any other votes?
This post follows an earlier rant at:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.vc.language/browse_thread/thread/cd8333fd25b20df2/208be69fc75b4c85?lnk=raot
Brian Muth
thread. The categorizations are quite useless, IMO. Stick with your
favourite search engine instead.
Jonathan Wood
I haven't seen the site since it's usually down. But given what I know of
the OP, it's a given that the site sucks.
Jonathan
"Brian Muth" <bm...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23HGh2oE...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Hans-J. Ude
The navigation is wiered, it doesn't work and the Java part is
completely down.
Hans
Hans-J. Ude
The navigation is weird, it doesn't work and the Java part is completely
down.
Hans
pgadmin
>I forgot to add that this site sucks,
YOU suck, and suck so bad, I don't recall seeing
someone sucking as bad as you for YEARS,
and I have seen many that suck.
The last one, who sucked as bad as you, was
Jay Denebeim in the big-8 "power elite".
> for reasons given in the earlier
>thread.
NOT a SINGLE reason was given by you, mouth foraming idiot.
> The categorizations are quite useless, IMO.
Because you are total and complete idiot,
who has not a slightest clue about information
classification issues.
> Stick with your
>favourite search engine instead.
You can stick up your tootoo if you want.
If I see your crap again, I'll let you talk to my monkey.
She LOVES idiots of your grade.
pgadmin
<jw...@softcircuits.com> wrote:
>Definitely! I wish the OP would just go away.
And I wish YOU go away.
How's that?
Or you want to measure dicks to see who is better expert
on the subject of this group, and even if you put all C
related groups, we can handle that.
>I haven't seen the site since it's usually down. But given what I know of
>the OP, it's a given that the site sucks.
:--}
Maaan, you ding dongs suck.
I am just cracking up.
Some idiot comes and says: I didn't even see it,
but I know what it is.
:--}
And starts licking arse of some other blood boiling idiot.
I wander how big will that company end up being.
I bet there are quite a few of those.
:--}
>Jonathan
>
>"Brian Muth" <bm...@mvps.org> wrote in message
>news:%23HGh2oE...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>I vote that this is an completely inappropriate post, as it is a form of
>>advertising.
>>
>> Any other votes?
>>
>> This post follows an earlier rant at:
>>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.vc.language/browse_thread/thre
>ad/cd8333fd25b20df2/208be69fc75b4c85?lnk=raot
pgadmin
>pgadmin schrieb:
>> C++ Goldmine is on line now. This baby rocks!
>>
>> http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
>
>The navigation is weird,
What is weird about it?
You can navigate from ANY place to ANY place
in a single button click.
You always have all the categories present.
You always have the article index present.
Even if you switch to a different chapter
from any article or subject, you can still get
back to where you were and continue on.
>it doesn't work
WHAT doesn't work?
> and the Java part is completely down.
That is true. The provider has been having a lot of
problems during the last month. They used to be fine
for years.
But they usually come back in a few hours.
Java is going to get moved to a US based server
in about a week if everything goes well. Plus it
needs an update anyway.
>Hans
You wanna join the club of mouthfoaming?
pgadmin
>I vote that this is an completely inappropriate post, as it is a form
>of advertising.
>Any other votes?
Puke!
You are a real sicko, aren't ya?
What is the problem here?
Are you jealous?
Utterly dumb and uncreative, you, miserable scum?
Have nothing better to do in life than go slime people up?
The information provided is 1000% ON topic here,
mr. ding dong.
You understand?
Someone spends TONS of his time, provides the information
100% related to this group, and you, violent and vicious
pervert are going after his throat? From the day one?
>This post follows an earlier rant at:
YOU, slimebag, personally, have started the whole thing.
YOU have called something shit, while being in shit
upto your ears.
It is YOU, who is running out of his skin, trying to
destroy something.
It is YOU, who made all those destructive things.
It is YOU, who is talking like a butcher
and ready to fight with someone, who does not give
a flying dead chicken if you are dead or alive.
Because you are UTTERLY uninteresting.
Just a typical mouth foaming and blood boiling nazi,
who has no better thing in life but destruction,
slime, harassment and all sorts of other most
despicable things.
I told you: Get da funk out of my way.
If you cross my path the way you do,
then you may get a taste of The Diamond Sword.
Ever heard?
I warned you.
Hans-J. Ude
> In article <6svk2hF...@mid.individual.net>, "Hans-J. Ude"
> <ne...@s237965939.online.de> wrote:
>> pgadmin schrieb:
>>> C++ Goldmine is on line now. This baby rocks!
>>>
>>> http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
>> The navigation is weird,
>
> What is weird about it?
>
> You can navigate from ANY place to ANY place
> in a single button click.
>
> You always have all the categories present.
> You always have the article index present.
> Even if you switch to a different chapter
> from any article or subject, you can still get
> back to where you were and continue on.
>
>> it doesn't work
>
> WHAT doesn't work?
When I'm at this page
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/news.php
There is a main menu:
Java Goldmine - Site is down
C++ Goldmine - Takes me nowhere, links to
MFC Goldmine - Takes me to a page with frames/noframes and the same
selection as above. Wen I click MFC Goldmine again, It takes me back and
that goes round and round and round and .... but nowhere to MFC goldmine
Hans
Hans-J. Ude
> In article <6svk2hF...@mid.individual.net>, "Hans-J. Ude"
> <ne...@s237965939.online.de> wrote:
>> pgadmin schrieb:
>>> C++ Goldmine is on line now. This baby rocks!
>>>
>>> http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
>> The navigation is weird,
>
> What is weird about it?
>
> You can navigate from ANY place to ANY place
> in a single button click.
>
> You always have all the categories present.
> You always have the article index present.
> Even if you switch to a different chapter
> from any article or subject, you can still get
> back to where you were and continue on.
>
>> it doesn't work
>
> WHAT doesn't work?
When I'm at this page
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/news.php
There is a main menu:
Java Goldmine - Site is down
C++ Goldmine - Takes me nowhere, links to itself
MFC Goldmine - Takes me to a page with frames/noframes and the same
selection as above. When I click MFC Goldmine again, It takes me back
Alexander Grigoriev
assault on her customers, if they were any little bit unhappy with the
service...
"pgadmin" <pga...@pg.invalid> wrote in message
news:gkeibh$2fq$2...@solani.org...
Ajay Kalra
--
Ajay
> MFCGoldminehttp://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html(select MFC Goldmine)
> Covers all sorts of issues on Microsoft Visual C and specifically the MFC.
>
> C++ Goldminehttp://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
> http://javagoldmine.site90.net/(Main site, select MFC Goldmine)
pgadmin
>pgadmin schrieb:
>> In article <6svk2hF...@mid.individual.net>, "Hans-J. Ude"
>> <ne...@s237965939.online.de> wrote:
>>> pgadmin schrieb:
>>>> C++ Goldmine is on line now. This baby rocks!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
>>> The navigation is weird,
>>
>> What is weird about it?
>>
>> You can navigate from ANY place to ANY place
>> in a single button click.
>>
>> You always have all the categories present.
>> You always have the article index present.
>> Even if you switch to a different chapter
>> from any article or subject, you can still get
>> back to where you were and continue on.
>>
>>> it doesn't work
>>
>> WHAT doesn't work?
>When I'm at this page
>http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/news.php
>There is a main menu:
>Java Goldmine - Site is down
Yes, looks like they have way too many problems.
A new version of Java Goldmine will be regenerated
and hosted on the US based server.
This becomes the top priority item.
>C++ Goldmine - Takes me nowhere, links to itself
All sites look exactly the same. Thus confusion.
To view the articles in some collection
select View Collection Articles from main menu
of the main collection page.
>MFC Goldmine - Takes me to a page with frames/noframes and the same
>selection as above. When I click MFC Goldmine again, It takes me back
>and that goes round and round and round and .... but nowhere to MFC
>goldmine
Thanks for feedback.
Some things are updated and it should be much clearer now.
Look at the site again and see if it looks clear enough
for you. Otherwise, if you can see a better way of doing it,
that would be great. The last thing we need is confusion
about what is what and where.
Just keep in mind following:
1. All sites have exactly the same look when you access
them via main site page. This way, the same exact page
can be copied to a different site and there will be no
problems with carrying around the wrong information
somewhere.
2. UI should be done in a consistent way for all sites,
so it is clear and easy and you know where you are
at ANY moment, like viewing some article, navigating
in the article index, looking at a chapter list (TOC).
There are 3 sites at the moment (Java, MFC and C++)
and when you look at any of them, you should not see
the wrong header, title article hader, menu choice, etc.
3. To view articles from any site, you should push the
same button on any site and it should take you to the
correct collection.
Anyway, any suggestions or ideas are always helpful.
The goal is to have all the sites fully updated with
the latest articles within a week.
If you have any requests, that is fine.
As far as "on topic" or information appropriateness goes,
the goal is to have no more than 10% of articles that
are not on topic for a given chapter. We are pretty
close to it on CPP Goldmine. Filters are fine tuned.
With our filters, we can do miracles. A new site can
be generated within hours.
There is a tradeoff though, if you set your filters too
tightly, you are going to start loosing some important
articles. If you loosen them up, you may start getting
inappropriate articles. Filters need a loot of polishing
and review. This is the most tedious work.
That is why we need as much feedback and input, as possible.
User input is highly valuable at this point.
Anyway, the internal site search should be available
soon now. As soon, as we take care of Java Goldmine,
this becomes the priority item.
Google indexing is not reliable. To make a new site
fully Google indexed, it takes months, literally.
It takes them at least a month to index a site after it
has been submited, and even there, the index is going
to bee much smaller than the actual site.
Used to be much better.
For example, the latest version of Java Goldmine index on Google
only contains about 6,000 articles, but the earlier version on
a different site (tarkus01.by.ru/index.html) has over 25,000
articles indexed.
Secondly, we can implement much more powerful search
than Google has. All the code is working. Just need
to change a couple of things. Should take a couple
of days or so.
Good luck.
P.S. The C++ Goldmine filters were further polished.
Looks like we are pretty close to 90% in appropriateness
with this version. If we need to polish filters even more,
well, that could take upto a week. But then it is going
to shine like the brightest star.
Right now, we are filtering at a factor of about 500
to a 1000, meaning, out of 1000 raw articles, we select
only 1. Some chapters can not be filtered so tightly
because of the nature of related keyword phrases and
other lingustic reasons, nature of subject, presence
of similar terms, buzz words, etc.
Google isn't even in the picture at this point.
Their hit rate is around 1% from my own statistics.
Sure, you can use AND keywords and make it better,
but stil, you are going to get 10 times more articles,
AT least, for exact same time period and the same
exact input set. So, the worse case scenario, we are
10 times as better. But that is another matter.
If you have some requests for issues, topics, chapters,
filters, etc. post it here.
Note:
All the articles having Goldmine in Subject: header,
are automatically downloaded and reviewed.
>Hans
pgadmin
>You remind me of a soviet-times salesperson... Who would unleash a verbal
>assault on her customers, if they were any little bit unhappy with the
>service...
That's ok. Don't worry. We'll get there.
There are exact reasons to do things the way they are done.
Sorry, have no time.
See ya.
pgadmin
>Not again....
Get lost, Ajay, you are too dumb, too cowardly, and too slimy
for my test.
I have no interest at this point.
Hope not to see ya soon here.
--
JavaGoldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (Main site)
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
(use this one for Google searches site:tarkus01.by.ru)
C++ Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (Main site, select MFC Goldmine)
pgadmin
Notice this signature. It has all the latest info about
site locations.
MFC indexing on Google is going pretty slow. At the moment,
Google has only 5 articles index even though the site map
was submitted a couple of weeks ago. At this rate, it is
going to take them a year to fully index the site.
Many people think Google is some kind of an internet reference
paradice. Not so, for MANY reasons, which will be fully
revealed at some point.
Enjoy
P.S. CPP Golmine looks pretty bright, as far as appropriateness
and hit rate goes.
--
Java Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
on Java, C, C++, C#, VC and MFC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Ajay Kalra
> Hope not to see ya soon here.
>
Sorry dude. Have been for a very long time...
BTW, you are doing an excellent job of promoting your site.
--
Ajay
BobF
> Note:
>
> Notice this signature. It has all the latest info about
> site locations.
That's not a sig. It's a book
pgadmin
All the aricles related to MFCGoldmine or C++ Goldmine
will be automatically made available on all sites.
The articles by certain authors are going to be removed
from any and all sites, regardless of how and where they
were posted.
So, when you write something on these threads,
make sure to think about what you are saying and how
helpful your information is.
The ONLY issues of concern on these threads is
Programmer's Goldmine collections and how they can be made
even better in terms of ease of use and appropriateness
of the information go.
Again, these threads are automatically downloaded on a
periodic basis and are reviewd and followed up upon,
unless they are totally of the wall or the author is
dumbly hostile.
No whining here please.
Enjoy.
--
Java Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in article index. It is true, we should
work on threading, but not at this point.
Tom Serface
done. For example, Joe will often let us know when he's written a new
article and I'm always happy to go read them. I think the thread got longer
from people complaining about the advert than it was with the advert. If it
has to do with MFC a simple update notice here is quite appropriate imo.
Tom
"Ajay Kalra" <ajay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a593b603-c9b1-4b7e...@t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
pgadmin
>> I have no interest at this point.
>> Hope not to see ya soon here.
>>
>
>Sorry dude. Have been for a very long time...
Good. Keep it that way.
Why don't you put this thread on a ban list?
>BTW, you are doing an excellent job of promoting your site.
Only if I knew you well enough, this could be meaningful.
But I have a hunch that you can do some things.
Well, when you are ready, we'll see...
Btw, we need some people that understand the information
(as such) pretty well and have the basic understanding
of theory of information, Shannon and things like that.
Also, there is a fat list of important things to be
implemented. So, you are welcome to join the project.
As long, as you have constructive intent.
--
Java Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in article index. It is true, we should
work on threading, but not at this point.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
pgadmin
That's good.
This way, you don't have to even bother visiting the sites.
You get the whole shpiele in a single article!
Isn't that great?
:--}
--
Java Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in article index. It is true, we should
work on threading, but not at this point.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
BobF
> In article <#1qtO0Nd...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>, BobF <noth...@no.spam> wrote:
>> pgadmin wrote:
>>> Note:
>>>
>>> Notice this signature. It has all the latest info about
>>> site locations.
>> That's not a sig. It's a book
>
> That's good.
>
> This way, you don't have to even bother visiting the sites.
> You get the whole shpiele in a single article!
>
> Isn't that great?
>
> :--}
>
Yes, it is. It saved me from wasting time visiting your site.
pgadmin
I happen to be one of the key people in the field.
Was president of a succsessful software consulting
corporation in the Silicon Valley.
My clients include: Intel, HP, SGI, Amdahl, Fujitsu,
Lynx Real Time systems and a few other most honorable
names in the industry.
There is a good chance that your hard disk is doing
what it is doing because of the hard disc controller
I have developed. It was based on hardware sequential
step machine architecture. It was the Number One
product for several years. The closest competition's
product had 2 times more chips on the board. So,
their cost and price were basically double of ours.
Later on, the Adaptech ripped off (sorry for being
so blunt) our schematic, which was provided with
product documentation and made billons on it.
The same is Western Digital.
No hard feelings. Sometimes you have to swim with
sharks, and in Silicon Valley, you do it all the
time.
But...
The moral is this. There isn't even a single one
of you here, who I could even bother about,
except when they provide a useful input.
I could care less if they are dead or alive
for that matter.
Enjoy now.
pgadmin
>I think it's fair for people to promote their site here if it's not over
>done.
Well, even if it is "ovedone", the only outcome is the AUTHOR
is going to suffer consequences.
Otherwise, no one is forcing anyone to read ANY articles.
This is the most basic law of Usenet, and I know about
Usenet more than most of you combined.
>For example, Joe will often let us know when he's written a new
>article and I'm always happy to go read them. I think the thread got longer
>from people complaining about the advert than it was with the advert. If it
>has to do with MFC a simple update notice here is quite appropriate imo.
Well, tell you one thing: I know what is "appropriate"
better than most of you around here. First of all, I happen
to be one of top level experts. Worked down to kernel level
on quite a few projects for the biggest players in the world.
So...
We don't have problem in THAT department.
Secondly, I know exactly what I am doing.
If some of you don't like it, tough.
They don't even have to bother reading these threads.
Doesn't matter to me even a single iota.
>Tom
>
>"Ajay Kalra" <ajay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:a593b603-c9b1-4b7e...@t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>>> I have no interest at this point.
>>> Hope not to see ya soon here.
>> Sorry dude. Have been for a very long time...
>>
>> BTW, you are doing an excellent job of promoting your site.
>>
>> --
>> Ajay
Ajay, when are you going to wake up?
:--}
--
Java Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in article index. It is true, we should
work on threading, but not at this point.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
pgadmin
>pgadmin wrote:
>> In article <#1qtO0Nd...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>, BobF <noth...@no.spam>
> wrote:
>>> pgadmin wrote:
>>>> Note:
>>>>
>>>> Notice this signature. It has all the latest info about
>>>> site locations.
>>> That's not a sig. It's a book
>>
>> That's good.
>>
>> This way, you don't have to even bother visiting the sites.
>> You get the whole shpiele in a single article!
>>
>> Isn't that great?
>>
>> :--}
>>
>
>Yes, it is. It saved me from wasting time visiting your site.
Well, then we have zome progress here, I guess.
:--}
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
BobF
>
> I could care less if they are dead or alive
> for that matter.
At least you're willing to admit you care
pgadmin
Yes I do.
Does is bother you?
:--}
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
Ajay Kalra
> I think it's fair for people to promote their site here if it's not over
> done.
May be and may be not. This particular case is nothing but offensive
noise. There is absolutely no reason for us to get a running
commentary on when the site is up or down or some other site changes.
> For example, Joe will often let us know when he's written a new
> article and I'm always happy to go read them.
Yes, they are relevant to what we do here and there is no comparison
between that and this nonsense.
--
Ajay
pgadmin
If anyone does not like the Frames version of the site,
use No Frames version.
In that case, each page, category and article lists are
going to look like any other article you see on the web.
The main window will contain the list of categories.
By clicking on some category, you make it current,
in its own browser tab.
Once you click on a Topic List, another browser tab
will be opened and you will see a list of all articles
in selected category.
Once you click on any article, it will be displayed
in a separate browser tab.
This could be more comfortable for some.
This way, you occupy the 100% of the screen space.
But, it is still easier to work with Frames version,
even though the URLs don't show up on a title bar of
the browser.
In No Frame version, the article subject is displayed
an the browser's title bar. Just take a lok at it.
You just have to pay a little attention on what you
are doing, and you'll be in tip top shape. I promise.
Any problems whetsoever, post it under this thread.
If you want to whine, do it on some other thread.
No whining here, please.
When we have more time, you could post a research
request under this thread. We can download it
automatically and run da engine on it.
Enjoy!
pgadmin
>On Jan 12, 12:40=A0pm, "Tom Serface" <t...@nospam.camaswood.com> wrote:
>> I think it's fair for people to promote their site here if it's not over
>
>May be and may be not. This particular case is nothing but offensive
>noise. There is absolutely no reason for us to get a running
>commentary on when the site is up or down or some other site changes.
I don't like traffic lights on Usenet.
Sure, you can express your OPTNION.
But that is ALL there is to it.
Not a single person is obliged to follow on your advice.
You are lucky we are even bothering about you.
Keep it in perspective, willya?
You think you are THAT zignificant?
:--}
So far, I haven't heard a single word worth something
from you, with one exception, if I recall correctly.
You made a request, wether you realize it or not,
a request for article threading. Your request was
considered and was place on to-do list, and believe
me, to get on the list, you have to say something
of REAL value. Lucky you.
Now, it isn't a big deal to make the article topic
list with + signs for each thread. I estimate it is
going to take a day or two. Tools are pretty
powerful here. As powerful, as you can imagine.
But the problem is, there are other, MUCH more interesting
things on that list, and those done first.
But the fact that you got yourself on that list
is kinda compliment to you. Keep it up.
Your ideas are going to live on forever.
That is OUR job, and we know exactly what needs to be done.
If you write clean, clear and detailed articles
and use good article formatting (in terms of white
spacing, line length, leaving a blank line before and
after your follwup text, AND your articles represent a value,
you will be placed on an expert list. With next version,
they will appear in ALL expert categories.
Suggestions to place someone on the list could be made
in private, (details are on the sites), if you are concerned
about others beingh jealous, hostile or offensive.
The fact of submittal or removal request will remain
confidential and will not be mentioned anywhere.
You don't have to become a member of the site,
but if you do, some more goodies may become available to you.
>> For example, Joe will often let us know when he's written a new
>> article and I'm always happy to go read them.
>Yes, they are relevant to what we do here and there is no comparison
>between that and this nonsense.
To tell you the truth, I don't care what YOU "do around here".
I don't have to bother reading any of your threads
or follow up on any of your articles.
But THIS thread is OURS.
Get it through your head,
and as quickly, as you can manage.
If you do not like what it says here,
add filters in your newsreader.
We can filter you in, or out, based on when you sneeze
and even your posting style and things like that.
That is the easiest thing in the world.
Do the same and you'll be in a good shape.
But no shitting on this thread.
This is just a humble reminder.
Otherwise, it is upto you now.
The introductory dance is over.
Now we are into nuts and bolts here,
if you haven't noticed.
And one more time: PLEEZE, do not tell use what
is "on" or "off topic. Just mind your own business,
however dreadful it might be.
And learn to ENJOY life,
instead of bitching and moaning,
like those butchers around here.
You see, YOU are posting all TOTALLY "off-topic" stuff
on a technical group, dedicated to specific areas of
interest.
On a technical group, to engage in invitations
to slug it out, simply indicates that your consciousness
is on an amoeba level, and it is going to take quite
some time before you see the light of day,
the SIMPLIEST thing there is.
Clear enough?
Or you need more?
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in article index. It is true, we should
work on threading, but not at this point.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
pgadmin
Several code example chapters were manually reviewed.
We are running at pretty close to 100% appropriateness,
and that is not only impressive, but simply mind blowing.
The appropriateness tests are done manuall, by reviewing
the articles in some category and checking that they all
contain the articles with informaation related to topics
of the chapter.
So, at this point, the code filters are set nearly
perfectly.
This translates into some very substantial and tangible
things, such as time you waste to find some information
you are looking for or learn some topic or issue.
The learning curve is pretty steap with this kind of
precision. Basically, if you spend an hour a day studying
the articles in some collection, your salary is going
to substantially increase with the next review.
Because you can become an expert in about 2-3 months.
And THAT is what this is all about.
Enjoy now.
Jonathan Wood
> I could care less if they are dead or alive
> for that matter.
How big of you. Are you, like, twelve years old?
Do you think anyone here cares about you?
Jonathan
Jonathan Wood
> Well, even if it is "ovedone", the only outcome is the AUTHOR
> is going to suffer consequences.
Heh, that's happened long ago for you. Do you really think you are making
progress, building interest and good feelings towards your site?
Jonathan
Ajay Kalra
red floyd
> [visit-my-site crap redacted]
Why don't you just go away.
Don't go away mad, just go away. Nobody here gives a crap about your
site.
BobF
Hey, don't run the guy off! Much better to string him along with
feigned interest the same way we do with telemarketers.
Pretend to be interested. Make him froth and foam with excitement.
Make him expend even more energy.
Then ignore him until he goes away!
Tom Serface
that you are making your site available, but it's not there is a contest
going on or anything :o)
Tom
"pgadmin" <pga...@pg.invalid> wrote in message
news:gkg1q2$390$1...@solani.org...
Tom Serface
didn't know what was going on. I'll go back to ignoring it now ...
:o)
Tom
"Ajay Kalra" <ajay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6914557a-fbbf-4f3b...@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Tom Serface
from my message.
Tom
"pgadmin" <pga...@pg.invalid> wrote in message
news:gkg25o$390$2...@solani.org...
pgadmin
Learn to speak for yourself.
Or you still need a titie from your mommy...
I could not understand for YEARS on,
what do they mean when they call someone a sucker.
But lately, no problem, clear as a bell.
It is people like you,
who suck,
and suck,
and suck,
and suck.
Until they suck you out dry.
:--}
I remember once I was in a downtown,
and, all of a sudden, I felt something.
I have this ability to sense energy,
even if it is from behind. I often catch myself,
walking on the street, and, all of a sudden,
look across the street or behind and notice
the intence energy from some individual.
So, when I turn back, I noticed one old, old man,
staring at me. It was a look of a blackhole.
Clear enough?
>Jonathan
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
Mirror:
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
pgadmin
I don't need that.
The sites will either speak for themselves,
with your mouths, because it is YOUR articles,
not mine. MY articles are masterpieces generally.
But that is another subjct.
Or, no matter how "nice" am I,
and how many arses am I going to lick,
if the information is no good,
then that'll be a deciding factor.
Meanwhile, the latest and greatest version of Java
is almost done. You can look at the site.
I was shocked to see out of 20 articles in code example
sections only one that did not contain code.
Maaan, fine tuning those filters, after your whining,
was quite a trip. But now these filters shine in the
code examples chapters, which is probably the most
important part of the collection anyway.
The MFC goldmine is going to be rebuilt also.
We'll have to remove zome of those "experts",
da bullies, with da butcher's minds.
If you have a mind of a butcher,
you can not be an expert in such an artful form
as software development, no matter how smart you
make yourself look and how many books you swallowed
in this unending battle with complex of inferiority.
Clear enough?
>Jonathan
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
>Yawn....
Yawn, yawn,
and you'll yawn away the signature.
Look at that Java collection.
The code example section is right on the money.
I am sure you'll LOVE it.
:--}
Yawn.
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views and tons of relevant links
on each category. Some links have short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
We might even do custom searches, just for fun,
and make results automatically posted to the internal
site. The research results could be available within
minutes and you'll get a very precise report with all
the articles that sitisfy your search specification.
The search specification format will be published
real soon now :--}
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
pgadmin
Oh, cool.
Btw, what hole did you crawl out of?
You wanna get famous?
Craving for attention?
Are you a traffic light here,
who decides for everybody what do they like,
or what not?
Can you speak fer yourself?
Or it feels a bit uncomfortable
without that support of the herd?
I bet you are in the most middle part of the herd.
I tellya a secret.
It STINKS there the worst.
Didn't you know?
Oki, doki. Join da butcher's club.
Btw, did you have anything to say on the subject,
even remotely resembling anything, that is "on topic"
in this group?
I'd be curious to see that masterpiece.
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
Dummy, I ENJOY this trip with you, dildos.
Cause there is so much work going on,
I just need a lil break to see you,
just like in a zoo.
Maaan, What a show!
>Then ignore him until he goes away!
Following YOUR example?
Why don't YOU ignore?
Give them a real example
for once in your miserable life!
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
>Um, OK, but I was trying to stick up for you. Sorry if you didn't get that
>from my message.
Well, I only glance at it all, cause there's too much
going on here in terms of work. This is a break time
for me to look at these threads.
Btw, Java Goldmine on a new site is almost complete now.
Should be fully up within an hour. Code Examples really
scream.
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
>pgadmin schrieb:
>> In article <6svk2hF...@mid.individual.net>, "Hans-J. Ude"
>> <ne...@s237965939.online.de> wrote:
>>> pgadmin schrieb:
>>>> C++ Goldmine is on line now. This baby rocks!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
>>> The navigation is weird,
>>
>> What is weird about it?
>>
>> You can navigate from ANY place to ANY place
>> in a single button click.
>>
>> You always have all the categories present.
>> You always have the article index present.
>> Even if you switch to a different chapter
>> from any article or subject, you can still get
>> back to where you were and continue on.
>>
>>> it doesn't work
>>
>> WHAT doesn't work?
>
>When I'm at this page
>http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/news.php
>
>There is a main menu:
>Java Goldmine - Site is down
The brand new version of Java is almost done.
Some chapters are still being processed, but a good
half of it is already there.
>C++ Goldmine - Takes me nowhere, links to itself
True, I did find at least one link that was pointing
to itself. That would happen only if you do C++
while being already on C++.
Links are changed now and you can go directly to
collection without switching the sites and starting
from the main page, but of a different site again.
>MFC Goldmine - Takes me to a page with frames/noframes and the same
>selection as above. When I click MFC Goldmine again, It takes me back
>and that goes round and round and round and .... but nowhere to MFC
>goldmine
Hans, it is all true. But check it out now.
If you find some problem, you know what to do.
>Hans
Btw, check this signature. It has the latest addresses.
pgadmin
I don't have to even think.
Mind is a strange thing.
It starts thinking and then more thinking,
and even more, until it finally gets confused
because it can't find "DA ANSWER".
All I have to do is see.
And what I see looks pretty good.
In fact, if I tell you, you may fall on your tootoo.
:--}
>Jonathan
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
>If that's true then there's no reason to be condescending. I appreciate
>that you are making your site available, but it's not there is a contest
>going on or anything :o)
I don't "compete".
I usually tell people: I am not trying to get ahead
of any of you. Just go ahead and don't worry about me.
I won't take your piece 'o bread.
>Tom
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
pgadmin
>Um, OK, but I was trying to stick up for you. Sorry if you didn't get that
>from my message.
Don't worry about it.
Diplomacy is not my department.
I am interested in other things.
But thanx for a hand. Appreciated.
>Tom
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
Mike Vance
Actually, it fascinates me that MFC is still enough of significance that
someone is making an website about it. Sort of makes me happy in a
strange way, even though there is nothing knowledgable on the site at
all.
pgadmin
>> Not again....
>
>Actually, it fascinates me that MFC is still enough of significance that
>someone is making an website about it.
MFC is a thin wrapper around win32, meant to be used with C++.
So, the question becomes: Is C++ significant enough?
Or, is win32 significant enough?
> Sort of makes me happy in a
>strange way, even though there is nothing knowledgable on the site at
>all.
Well, it is YOUR writings.
Read Kanze's articles in Experts section.
If that is not significant enough, well, you must be REAL
high up there.
:--}
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net/ (use MFC Goldmine choice)
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per site, on Java, C+ and MFC/VC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views, and tons of relevant links
in each category. Some links have a short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop more or less.
Just don't get lost in the article index.
Ajay Kalra
> MFC is a thin wrapper around win32,
And you run a MFC website...
--
Ajay
pgadmin
>On Jan 14, 6:11=A0am, pgad...@pg.invalid (pgadmin) wrote:
>
>> MFC is a thin wrapper around win32,
>
>And you run a MFC website...
And you said you are done with this thread,
several times.
Why are you bothering with it at all?
BobF
> In article <21543620-800e-4a2d...@e22g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, Ajay Kalra <ajay...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 14, 6:11=A0am, pgad...@pg.invalid (pgadmin) wrote:
>>
>>> MFC is a thin wrapper around win32,
>> And you run a MFC website...
>
> And you said you are done with this thread,
> several times.
>
> Why are you bothering with it at all?
>
I won't speak for Ajay, but for me it's simple disbelief.
BTW, there is a good deal more to MFC than providing a thin C++ wrapper
over Win32. I'm pretty sure this is the point Ajay was trying to make
with his "And you run a MFC website..." comment.
It seems to me that you would want to understand your subject matter
better BEFORE you start a venture like this.
Ajay Kalra
> In article <21543620-800e-4a2d-91ae-fde1f9168...@e22g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, Ajay Kalra <ajayka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Jan 14, 6:11=A0am, pgad...@pg.invalid (pgadmin) wrote:
>
> >> MFC is a thin wrapper around win32,
>
> >And you run a MFC website...
>
> And you said you are done with this thread,
> several times.
I dont think so. That was a different thread. Your salesmanship
skills are excellent.
Its also helpful to pick on MFC *before* you start a MFC site or
become its champion.
> Why are you bothering with it at all?
Take a guess.
--
Ajay
Ajay Kalra
> It seems to me that you would want to understand your subject matter
> better BEFORE you start a venture like this.
:-)
--
Ajay
Tom Serface
as much original code as it does wrapper code (perhaps more).
It may be too little too late, but if we'd had these kinds of controls out
of the box years ago it would have been a great boon. Now, it's just sort
of cool.
Tom
"BobF" <noth...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:%23B9EX$mdJHA...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
BobF
I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture
MFC over the years.
pgadmin
:--}
Baby, I used MFC since its 1st version.
I never liked win32 coding. Ugly stuff.
Now, did you have anything to say?
pgadmin
>On Jan 14, 12:35=A0pm, pgad...@pg.invalid (pgadmin) wrote:
>> In article <21543620-800e-4a2d-91ae-fde1f9168...@e22g2000vbe.googlegroups=
>..com>, Ajay Kalra <ajayka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Jan 14, 6:11=3DA0am, pgad...@pg.invalid (pgadmin) wrote:
>>
>> >> MFC is a thin wrapper around win32,
>>
>> >And you run a MFC website...
>>
>> And you said you are done with this thread,
>> several times.
>
>I dont think so. That was a different thread. Your salesmanship
>skills are excellent.
>
>Its also helpful to pick on MFC *before* you start a MFC site or
>become its champion.
Oh, another dodo.
Where are you all crawling out of?
>> Why are you bothering with it at all?
>Take a guess.
I know it.
David Ching
>
> I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>
> I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture MFC
> over the years.
>
Indeed. Today Qt announced they will license it under LPGL which for me
says there is no reason to continue MFC any longer. Qt is the C++ framework
MFC should have been, had MS not neglected it for a decade.
One small example: Qt has layout panels which move and resize controls
using a considerable sizing policy so the dialog looks good no matter how it
is resized. No more handling OnSize() in the dialog and manually moving all
the child controls! .NET has had this for years, yet MFC has not. Instead,
MS chooses to offer a ribbon control? Amazingly short sighted....
-- David
pgadmin
>On Jan 14, 12:45=A0pm, BobF <notha...@no.spam> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that you would want to understand your subject matter
>> better BEFORE you start a venture like this.
>
>:-)
You forgot to say "lick, lick".
pgadmin
Well, when I started doing mostly Java, one of the first thing
I noticed is totally resizable dialogs where things are scaled
regardless of how you resize the dialog. Secondly, there is no
modeless weirdness, that is ALL OVER Microsoft products.
NewsMaestro is written in Java. You can open several dialogs
and change parameters in any of them by simply switching from
one dialog to another one. You can even change parameters
while there are few processors (main processing module) are
running. For some parameters, on the next article item, it
can pick up the newest parameter value.
All the dialog (Frame) parameters, sizing, etc., is persistent.
The next time you run the program, all the frames are located
exactly where you left off the last time around.
Now, the omni-potent and omni-powerful Windows, to this day,
can not even postition a few exploers windows at the same
place where they were the last time around.
Secondly, NewsMaestro can be interrupted or cancelled out
from ANY operation, regardless of wether it is reading
humongous archives and in the middle of heavy duty parsing
or filtering.
No matter what operation you perform, there is ALWAYS
a Cancel button, or Suspend button. In some cases, you
may start an operation that may last not only for minutes,
but for hours, and, if, all of a sudden, you realize you
did something wrong, you can cancell in the middle of a
single header parsing.
Again, look at Microsoft's product, and I mean ALL of them.
If you make some mistake and click on a wrong thing, it
may start a half an hour operation, and there is no
Cancel button in VAST majority of cases. So, you get hung
up and waste tons of time.
Basically, Microsoft is WAY too obnoxious and way too
recless with their designs and architecture. They keep
inventing all those new "technologies", like they like
to brag about. Just putting a lil stoopid button somewhere,
is "new technology", and, with all their financial might,
they still can't beat the Linux.
Well, that's the way the world turns.
Is everything nice and kosher on the sites?
Did you find something "wrong" somewhere?
>-- David
BobF
> "BobF" <noth...@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:usvabfqd...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>> I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>>
>> I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture
>> MFC over the years.
>>
>
> Indeed. Today Qt announced they will license it under LPGL
Good to know! I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.
> which for me
> says there is no reason to continue MFC any longer. Qt is the C++
> framework MFC should have been, had MS not neglected it for a decade.
>
> One small example: Qt has layout panels which move and resize controls
> using a considerable sizing policy so the dialog looks good no matter
> how it is resized. No more handling OnSize() in the dialog and manually
> moving all the child controls! .NET has had this for years, yet MFC has
> not. Instead, MS chooses to offer a ribbon control? Amazingly short
> sighted....
IMO, MS was intent on pushing EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING to .Net, so they
had/have a vested interest in NOT updating non-.Net tools and technologies.
I think this fits with their overall push the "Live" paradigm.
Ajay Kalra
wrote:
> "BobF" <notha...@no.spam> wrote in message
>
> news:usvabfqd...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
>
> > I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>
> > I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture MFC
> > over the years.
>
> Indeed. Today Qt announced they will license it under LPGL which for me
> says there is no reason to continue MFC any longer.
> Qt is the C++ framework MFC should have been, had MS not neglected it for a decade.
What is Qt?
Also, Microsoft didnt really neglect MFC. They were pretty clear about
the future and it wasnt MFC. It has been status quo for it for a
decade.
--
Ajay
Les Neilson
Les
"Ajay Kalra" <ajay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d18d3c56-50e9-4d65...@t26g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 14, 10:38 pm, "David Ching" <d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com>
wrote:
> "BobF" <notha...@no.spam> wrote in message
>
> news:usvabfqd...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
Jonathan Wood
> I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>
> I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture MFC
> over the years.
AFAIC, 2008 SP1 (or the feature pack) has shown that Microsoft has come to
the same conclusion and is looking to rectify the situation.
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softcircuits.com
http://www.softcircuits.com/blog/
David Ching
news:uvjlVIzd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>>
>> I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture
>> MFC over the years.
>
> AFAIC, 2008 SP1 (or the feature pack) has shown that Microsoft has come to
> the same conclusion and is looking to rectify the situation.
>
I disagree. Microsoft is only adding additional controls to MFC (that could
just as well, or better, be left to 3rd party control developers). They are
not innovating the core of MFC to introduce useful things like layout
panels.
-- David
Ajay Kalra
wrote:
> I disagree. Microsoft is only adding additional controls to MFC (that could
> just as well, or better, be left to 3rd party control developers). They are
> not innovating the core of MFC to introduce useful things like layout
> panels.
>
That's my assessment as well. Also, .Net has many more controls(out of
the box) than being offered in MFC.
--
Ajay
Jonathan Wood
news:eC99PSzd...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> AFAIC, 2008 SP1 (or the feature pack) has shown that Microsoft has come
>> to the same conclusion and is looking to rectify the situation.
>>
>
> I disagree. Microsoft is only adding additional controls to MFC (that
> could just as well, or better, be left to 3rd party control developers).
> They are not innovating the core of MFC to introduce useful things like
> layout panels.
I'm not sure I follow. I'm not familiar with "layout panels," but why are
they so much more important than new controls?
Although MFC embodies many classes, I've always considered the UI to be the
heart of it. And the addition of things like the ribbon bar not only means I
don't need to pay a third-party company, but it also means MS will maintain
the code, and probably also contributed to MS adding the ribbon bar to
Windows proper. Of course, the ribbon bar isn't all that was added and other
changes even include enhancements to the C++ language itself.
I agree that MFC languished for a while. But your complaint about these
additions seems nothing more than suggesting they could be done by another
company, for some reason. Perhaps you can clarify why you don't see a
renewed commitment to MFC.
Jonathan
David Ching
> I'm not sure I follow. I'm not familiar with "layout panels," but why are
> they so much more important than new controls?
>
> additions seems nothing more than suggesting they could be done by another
> company, for some reason. Perhaps you can clarify why you don't see a
> renewed commitment to MFC.
>
Layout panels are like splitter controls that resize the child windows
according to the size of the frame. Except a panel is a child control in a
dialog like a groupbox. The layout panels respect properties of its child
controls such as Docked and Expandable/Fixed to optimally resize and move
the child controls according to how much space is available, automatically
and with no additional code.
Building block components such as these give us more chance to use them in
many instances of our own apps and is what MS is uniquely capable of
providing. Whereas any reputable component vendor is capable of delivering
quality end-user controls like ribbons. That's why it is important for MS
to deliver these building blocks instead of end user controls. It also
tells me that MS really hasn't invested much in MFC internals since that is
not required for things like the ribbon. Before saying anything about
renewed commitment to MFC, I would expect MS to do something like re-hire
Mike B. to give the MFC internals a thorough overhaul to once again be able
to call MFC a modern GUI framework vs. a legacy GUI framework.
It's not that I don't see a value in the ribbon, it's just that it
represents the diminished deliverables of MS in general these days. The
products have value but are not optimized to deliver value. If MS is bound
and determined to deliver a ribbon, why don't they go above and beyond what
any other MFC ribbon maker has done and give a ribbon designer in the IDE so
we don't have to laboriously add code to add each individual ribbon element?
That is so 1980's.
-- David
Jonathan Wood
> Layout panels are like splitter controls that resize the child windows
> according to the size of the frame. Except a panel is a child control in
> a dialog like a groupbox. The layout panels respect properties of its
> child controls such as Docked and Expandable/Fixed to optimally resize and
> move the child controls according to how much space is available,
> automatically and with no additional code.
So, I guess you're saying the controls themselves would have to change to
have docking, expandable, etc. properties, more similar to .NET.
I understand that, although it could still be accomplished by an MFC
developer. But let me say that I'm VERY glad that MS is providing the ribbon
bar, etc. instead of me buying it from a third-party developer.
> Building block components such as these give us more chance to use them in
> many instances of our own apps and is what MS is uniquely capable of
> providing. Whereas any reputable component vendor is capable of
> delivering quality end-user controls like ribbons. That's why it is
> important for MS to deliver these building blocks instead of end user
> controls. It also tells me that MS really hasn't invested much in MFC
> internals since that is not required for things like the ribbon. Before
> saying anything about renewed commitment to MFC, I would expect MS to do
> something like re-hire Mike B. to give the MFC internals a thorough
> overhaul to once again be able to call MFC a modern GUI framework vs. a
> legacy GUI framework.
Of course, one issue with MFC is how widely used it is. Breaking
compatibility with older apps cannot be done lightly.
> It's not that I don't see a value in the ribbon, it's just that it
> represents the diminished deliverables of MS in general these days. The
> products have value but are not optimized to deliver value. If MS is
> bound and determined to deliver a ribbon, why don't they go above and
> beyond what any other MFC ribbon maker has done and give a ribbon designer
> in the IDE so we don't have to laboriously add code to add each individual
> ribbon element? That is so 1980's.
They will definitely have a ribbon designer coming up. They are already
talking about using XML and other things that will lend themselves very well
to just that.
In the end, it sounds like you'd like something more along the lines of what
Delphi does where you can layout a lot of your window design at design time.
I've wished for this myself. But that's not likely any time soon. And I find
MFC is still better for some tasks than any other tool. So, yeah, I'm
thrilled about Microsoft adding new functionality to MFC and I expect to see
more in future releases.
--
David Ching
> So, I guess you're saying the controls themselves would have to change to
> have docking, expandable, etc. properties, more similar to .NET.
>
Yup. Like .NET and other modern GUI frameworks.
> I understand that, although it could still be accomplished by an MFC
> developer. But let me say that I'm VERY glad that MS is providing the
> ribbon bar, etc. instead of me buying it from a third-party developer.
>
In the case of the ribbon, I think the implementation is not very good
compared to CodeJock, so I would still buy CodeJock. Net result for me: 0.
>> Building block components such as these give us more chance to use them
>> in many instances of our own apps and is what MS is uniquely capable of
>> providing. Whereas any reputable component vendor is capable of
>> delivering quality end-user controls like ribbons. That's why it is
>> important for MS to deliver these building blocks instead of end user
>> controls. It also tells me that MS really hasn't invested much in MFC
>> internals since that is not required for things like the ribbon. Before
>> saying anything about renewed commitment to MFC, I would expect MS to do
>> something like re-hire Mike B. to give the MFC internals a thorough
>> overhaul to once again be able to call MFC a modern GUI framework vs. a
>> legacy GUI framework.
>
> Of course, one issue with MFC is how widely used it is. Breaking
> compatibility with older apps cannot be done lightly.
>
Adding modern constructs like design-time facilities, properties, delegates,
etc. does not have to break compatibility.
> They will definitely have a ribbon designer coming up. They are already
> talking about using XML and other things that will lend themselves very
> well to just that.
>
So they say... but it is not promised in Dev10. How many years does it
take? If we have to wait for Dev12 for it... it's not worth talking about.
> In the end, it sounds like you'd like something more along the lines of
> what Delphi does where you can layout a lot of your window design at
> design time. I've wished for this myself. But that's not likely any time
> soon.
One of the reasons why MFC is not a modern GUI framework.
> And I find MFC is still better for some tasks than any other tool.
I do too, but these tasks are increasingly legacy, and less and less used.
It's very hard to find MFC jobs these days. The great work done up until
the VC6 timeframe is still great today, but the influence is diminishing.
> So, yeah, I'm thrilled about Microsoft adding new functionality to MFC and
> I expect to see more in future releases.
>
I think it's a step in the right direction, but it will require more than
rebundling BCGSoft components for me to recognize a renewed commitment to
make MFC more than the legacy framework. As it is, I don't think they would
have done that without the mandate to make the ribbon be everywhere, which
of course is not the same as a mandate to renew commitment to MFC. I'm just
asking that you recognize the difference.
-- David
BobF
> "Jonathan Wood" <jw...@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Of course, one issue with MFC is how widely used it is. Breaking
>> compatibility with older apps cannot be done lightly.
>>
>
> Adding modern constructs like design-time facilities, properties,
> delegates, etc. does not have to break compatibility.
>
No need to break functionality. Branch the existing MFC to MFCX and
have a free-for-all redesign and enhancement party!!
Tom Serface
Tom
"David Ching" <d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote in message
news:OY8P5Ksd...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Tom Serface
applications and for bigger things .NET seems like a better direction these
days (which probably precludes C++ just because of easy of use).
Tom
"David Ching" <d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote in message
news:eC99PSzd...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Tom Serface
Tom
"BobF" <noth...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:esabK$AeJHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
BobF
> Hmmm. Great news and makes it worth giving Qt another look.
>
> Tom
>
I'm downloading the eval as we type ...
I do find it odd that I have to send an email to get a license quote.
What are they doing, looking me up to see how much cash I have before
they quote the price? :-)
Ajay Kalra
These are tough times. They just cant sell the product to anyone who
thinks they are worthy :-)
I personally cant see how *any* cross-platform solution will work. It
hasnt so far and its unlikely in the future.
--
Ajay
David Ching
> I do find it odd that I have to send an email to get a license quote. What
> are they doing, looking me up to see how much cash I have before they
> quote the price? :-)
Believe it or not, the answer is Yes! The prices I've heard, the commercial
version is expensive, about $3K per developer per year. That's for one OS
(Windows, Mac, Linux), take your pick. Each additional OS is about $1K
more. So that is about $5K per developer per year for all 3 OS's.
But the idea of the LPGL is you wouldn't pay anything.
Unfortunately I've just found out the LPGL version omits the "Visual Studio
integration" which makes it as easy to develop Qt apps as MFC apps in the
IDE. I'm currently investigating what is the pain to develop Qt apps
without this package.
-- David
BobF
> "BobF" <noth...@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:uXlcTPBe...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> I do find it odd that I have to send an email to get a license quote.
>> What are they doing, looking me up to see how much cash I have before
>> they quote the price? :-)
>
> Believe it or not, the answer is Yes! The prices I've heard, the
> commercial version is expensive, about $3K per developer per year.
> That's for one OS (Windows, Mac, Linux), take your pick. Each
> additional OS is about $1K more. So that is about $5K per developer per
> year for all 3 OS's.
>
> But the idea of the LPGL is you wouldn't pay anything.
So LPGL lets me legally use it for commercial apps?
>
> Unfortunately I've just found out the LPGL version omits the "Visual
> Studio integration" which makes it as easy to develop Qt apps as MFC
> apps in the IDE. I'm currently investigating what is the pain to
> develop Qt apps without this package.
I imagine it would be about the same as wxWidgets.
David Ching
-- David
"Tom Serface" <t...@nospam.camaswood.com> wrote in message
news:AD3D332F-CC2A-401A...@microsoft.com...
David Ching
> So LPGL lets me legally use it for commercial apps?
>
Most people think so but we aren't lawyers! ;) The word on the street is
as long as your commercial app is dynamically link to Qt (making it possible
for others to link your closed-source app to other versions of Qt), then you
can license Qt under LPGL for free.
>> Unfortunately I've just found out the LPGL version omits the "Visual
>> Studio integration" which makes it as easy to develop Qt apps as MFC apps
>> in the IDE. I'm currently investigating what is the pain to develop Qt
>> apps without this package.
>
> I imagine it would be about the same as wxWidgets.
Not quite as bad. Qt provides tools for designing dialogs, translation,
help, etc. which I understand are non-existant or developed to varying
levels of competency by third parties. It's just that these are integrated
nicely into Visual Studio, which makes it easy for me to edit with Visual
Assist X. Also it includes a utility for translating .pro files (which are
Qt makefiles) to Visual Studio .sln and .vcproj.
-- David
David Ching
On Jan 16, 2:51 pm, BobF <notha...@no.spam> wrote:
> I personally cant see how *any* cross-platform solution will work. It
> hasnt so far and its unlikely in the future.
It will be interesting to see how cross-platform will work, but this doesn't
negate using Qt on Windows only as a better framework than MFC.
-- David
Jonathan Wood
>> And I find MFC is still better for some tasks than any other tool.
>
> I do too, but these tasks are increasingly legacy, and less and less used.
> It's very hard to find MFC jobs these days. The great work done up until
> the VC6 timeframe is still great today, but the influence is diminishing.
Well, having used MFC and the ribbon bar for a recent client project, and
also having recently worked with .NET for a desktop app (which I don't have
a lot of experience in), my view is that both have advantages. But, yeah,
you seem to view MFC as a bit less relevant than I do.
I still find .NET clunky in some ways. QuickBooks was ported to .NET and now
I can go get a cup of coffee in the time it takes the application to load.
And this doesn't even get into distribution issues. Yes, .NET has lots of
wiz-bang features but, with the feature pack, now MFC does too.
> I think it's a step in the right direction, but it will require more than
> rebundling BCGSoft components for me to recognize a renewed commitment to
> make MFC more than the legacy framework. As it is, I don't think they
> would have done that without the mandate to make the ribbon be everywhere,
> which of course is not the same as a mandate to renew commitment to MFC.
> I'm just asking that you recognize the difference.
"Rebundling BCGSoft" means that MS is now responsible to see that those
libraries work with current and future versions of Windows and continue to
work over the next iterations of MFC. I think that is a pretty substantial
commitment. I have not yet seen evidence that the decision to enhance MFC
was driven by some internal Microsoft policy to push the ribbon bar
everywhere. In fact, I've seen some indications to the contrary.
Jonathan
Duane Hebert
VSIntegration alleviates the need to manually perform the MOC step using
QMake.
You may be able to achieve the same with pre/post build events though.
It also adds some bells and whistles into the IDE as you say but you can
still run the
Qt Designer outside of the IDE to generate you GUIs. I would certainly miss
this
but I'm not sure if it's worth the price of the commercial license.
I haven't seen where they say they won't supply it nor whether the LGPL
version will
work with my previously purchased commercial VSIntegration <g> as it's a
separate
install.
David Ching
> I still find .NET clunky in some ways. QuickBooks was ported to .NET and
> now I can go get a cup of coffee in the time it takes the application to
> load. And this doesn't even get into distribution issues. Yes, .NET has
> lots of wiz-bang features but, with the feature pack, now MFC does too.
>
.NET performance is certainly an issue but .NET apps are still very usable
even if they are noticeably less snappy than native apps. In general, all
but the most impatient will be satisfied with .NET apps running on a
reasonably modern system. Especially since the productivity of developing
in .NET means the app tends to be more full-featured and nice to use once it
gets started.
I am using Xenocode PostBuild to get around the need to have .NET installed.
I guess we define "wiz-bang" differently. For me, the real "wiz-bang"
features of .NET are the reusable things like layout panels. I rely on the
Telerik 3rd party framework for the ribbon (which of course comes with a
designer).
> "Rebundling BCGSoft" means that MS is now responsible to see that those
> libraries work with current and future versions of Windows and continue to
> work over the next iterations of MFC. I think that is a pretty substantial
> commitment.
Sure, but hiring back Mike B. and forming a team around MFCX (as Bob thought
of) would represent probably 20x time the commitment. Again, no one is
saying their effort is insubstantial, but it is far from what I would call a
recommitment to MFC. I'm comparing to the kind of deliverables Microsoft
had in the VC2 - VC6 timeframes which established VC as the premier
development tool of Windows apps. Show me those kind of deliverables and
then I will recognize a recommitment to MFC.
> I have not yet seen evidence that the decision to enhance MFC was driven
> by some internal Microsoft policy to push the ribbon bar everywhere. In
> fact, I've seen some indications to the contrary.
>
I don't have any direct evidence but it does seem a stretch to call those
deliverables a recommitment to MFC, so it is speculation that it was for
other reasons advantageous to MS. I'd love to be proven wrong and see some
substantial additions to MFC(X) in Dev10.
-- David
David Ching
news:OxfPIwBe...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> VSIntegration alleviates the need to manually perform the MOC step using
> QMake.
> You may be able to achieve the same with pre/post build events though.
I thought the big win was being able to completely replace qmake with native
VC sln/vcproj. That means having a functional Solution window from which to
choose/add files to, etc. I thought without VS Integration it would mean
manually invoking qmake to build.
> It also adds some bells and whistles into the IDE as you say but you can
> still run the
> Qt Designer outside of the IDE to generate you GUIs. I would certainly
> miss this
> but I'm not sure if it's worth the price of the commercial license.
>
Although it's convenient to have the Designer within the IDE, I find the
external one a little easier to use anyway.
> I haven't seen where they say they won't supply it nor whether the LGPL
> version will
> work with my previously purchased commercial VSIntegration <g> as it's a
> separate
> install.
We asked Nokia, and they will not provide VS Integration with the LPGL
licensing model. I'm not sure if old VS Integration will work. The LPGL
only affects the not-yet-released Qt 4.5, and maybe they will break the old
VS Integration prior to releasing it! ;) But the 4.5 beta currently works
with VS Integration.
Thanks,
David
Jonathan Wood
> .NET performance is certainly an issue but .NET apps are still very usable
> even if they are noticeably less snappy than native apps. In general, all
> but the most impatient will be satisfied with .NET apps running on a
> reasonably modern system. Especially since the productivity of developing
> in .NET means the app tends to be more full-featured and nice to use once
> it gets started.
If someone had a similar product to QuickBooks but it was written in C++
such that it loaded right up, I'd buy that product instead. It may not be an
issue for you. But if any customers feel that way, it's an issue.
> I guess we define "wiz-bang" differently. For me, the real "wiz-bang"
> features of .NET are the reusable things like layout panels. I rely on
> the Telerik 3rd party framework for the ribbon (which of course comes with
> a designer).
Maybe one of the differences is that I'm thinking also about what it brings
to the customer. A visual designer is great, but it doesn't always provide
any benefit to the customer.
>> I have not yet seen evidence that the decision to enhance MFC was driven
>> by some internal Microsoft policy to push the ribbon bar everywhere. In
>> fact, I've seen some indications to the contrary.
>
> I don't have any direct evidence but it does seem a stretch to call those
> deliverables a recommitment to MFC, so it is speculation that it was for
> other reasons advantageous to MS. I'd love to be proven wrong and see
> some substantial additions to MFC(X) in Dev10.
As mentioned previously, I think at some point MS decided MFC didn't matter
any more because of .NET. Now they realize that, for some, .NET didn't
replace MFC and now they're enhancing MFC in substantial ways. I understand
it may not be as much as you'd like or the specific changes you'd like to
see, and that's fine.
I'm sorry, but the idea that this doesn't make sense and so adding the
ribbon bar must be a result of some ulterior motive within MS just seems
completely unfounded to me.
David Ching
> If someone had a similar product to QuickBooks but it was written in C++
> such that it loaded right up, I'd buy that product instead. It may not be
> an issue for you. But if any customers feel that way, it's an issue.
>
Well, I understand the sentiment, but that's a little simplistic. Startup
speed is not the only criteria one uses in choosing a product. And it's not
if *any* customers feel that way, it's if a significant number select a
different product based on that. I use QuickBooks SDK to interface my
WinForms app with QuickBooks so I am familiar with it, but hate it anyway.
I wouldn't like it even if it loaded in 2 seconds.
> Maybe one of the differences is that I'm thinking also about what it
> brings to the customer. A visual designer is great, but it doesn't always
> provide any benefit to the customer.
>
My point is that developer productivity is always felt by the customer, even
if indirectly. That's why .NET apps may be a good deal for the customer
despite its performance and deployability (negated with Xenocode) issues.
> As mentioned previously, I think at some point MS decided MFC didn't
> matter any more because of .NET. Now they realize that, for some, .NET
> didn't replace MFC and now they're enhancing MFC in substantial ways. I
> understand it may not be as much as you'd like or the specific changes
> you'd like to see, and that's fine.
>
> I'm sorry, but the idea that this doesn't make sense and so adding the
> ribbon bar must be a result of some ulterior motive within MS just seems
> completely unfounded to me.
>
Yes, the reason may or may not be true. We'll never know. The fact is,
we've got what we got and the only reason we're speculating is to try and
predict what, if any, more improvements to MFC might or might not be coming.
You seem to be optimistic they'll be significant enhancements down the road
that you will use. I'm not. But then I started moving away from MFC for
desktop apps 3 years ago. I'm still here, but it's not due to the ribbon!
:-)
-- David
pgadmin
>On Jan 16, 2:51=A0pm, BobF <notha...@no.spam> wrote:
>> Tom Serface wrote:
>>
>> > Tom
>>
>> I'm downloading the eval as we type ...
>>
>> I do find it odd that I have to send an email to get a license quote.
>> What are they doing, looking me up to see how much cash I have before
>> they quote the price? :-)
>
>These are tough times. They just cant sell the product to anyone who
>thinks they are worthy :-)
>
>I personally cant see how *any* cross-platform solution will work. It
>hasnt so far and its unlikely in the future.
Take a look at Java. It works just fine, down to threads, events,
GUI, automatic garbage collection and quite a few other things,
including extensive collection of Collections, such as lists,
maps, hash maps, trees, sets, etc. All built into language.
You don't have to move your finger to have a nice, well written
collection for most of your data handling needs.
Works and tested. Verified enough to make such a statement.
They have an interesting concept of layout managers.
There are several of those and there are 3rd party free
managers, as powerful, as it gets.
For example the Gridbag Layout allows you to resize the
frames, maintaining the selected aspect ratios. So, you
can scale any of your Frames (Dialogs) to any size,
including the maximization to full screen, and all the
components (buttons, labels, text fields, etc.) will
maintain their sane proportions.
If you create a separate thread for a frame, then you
can have as many dialogs open SIMULTANEOUSLY while some
process is running, and you can update any of them
and cut and paste from one to another.
The stuff you are talking about isn't even an issue
as far as Java goes.
Plus it does run on all popular platforms, and it IS
binary compatible. The same class files run on Windows,
Linux, Unix, Apple and a few other platforms. As long
as you have a JVM (Java Virtual Machine) for your platform,
everything is going to run fine. Sure, you have to know
what you are doing and write your code in such a way,
that you don't get into subtle cross-platform problems
or version dependencies.
For example, NewsMaestro, used to generate the Goldmine
sites is verified to run on ANY version of JVM going
back 10 years, and it is verified on Windows, Linux
and 4 Unix flavors. That covers over 90% of what is
out there.
You have JavaGoldmine. It has PLENTY of articles that
would make your jaw drop, seeing all the subtelties
and solutions to just about ANY problem or issue,
you can think of.
You see, Goldmine is just that, a goldmine.
But it is not a bank for jerks, who click on some
button and spend less than a minutes. Those usually
go back to chasing things all over the Internet
and reading TONS of garbage on teh way, and that
is good. Because they do deserve all that suffering.
On a DAILY basis. CONTINUOUSLY, NON-STOP.
Until they realize what and who they are.
Meanwile, enjoy the trip and don't forget to be nice.
Willya?
:--}
>--
>Ajay
--
Java Goldmine:
=============
http://javagoldmine.site90.net
Mirrors:
http://javagoldmine.by.ru/index.html
http://tarkus01.by.ru/index.html
CPP Goldmine:
=============
http://www.cppgoldmine.comze.com/
MFC/VC Goldmine:
=============
http://mfcgoldmine.site90.net/
Mirror:
http://mfcgoldmine.by.ru/index.html
The Goldmine collections contain over 50,000 articles
per collection, on Java, C++ and Visual C/MFC in over 50 categories.
Tens of thousands of code snippets and examples,
expert opinions and views, and tons of relevant links
in each category. Some links have a short summary.
You can find an answer on any issue within minutes,
if not seconds.
Please spend some time with collection. You'll find PLENTY
of things to learn.
But remember this: It is a Goldmine, not a bank.
You can't just walk in and say: give me some gold!
Nope, you have to dig. But if you dig, you might even find
a nice, shiny nugget, and you won't be the first one at that.
Note:
Java and MFC sites are indexed by Google, Yahoo and other search engines.
(MFC indexing on Google is going very slow).
To find you exactly the articles you are looking for,
specify
site:mfcgoldmine.by.ru (for MFC/VC/C++)
For Java Goldmine Google searches, use
site:tarkus01.by.ru
not javagoldmine.by.ru. http://tarkus01.by.ru has the biggest
Google index.
Should take you a couple of minutes to find anything you want
and learn tons of stuff on the way. Because you are going to
be reviewing the cream of the crop, more or less, for several
years worth of articles. The best you can find for ANY money.
Because it is a Goldmine, not a book, or some screwed up
manual or tutorial.
If you have problems accessing some article, use the mirror site.
If you have any problems, suggestions or ideas, post it under
this thread.
If you'd like to see another chapter, please specify what kind
of issues it should be addressing.
pgadmin
general C++ world.
In article <E29380DE-A4C4-4A9D...@microsoft.com>, "Tom Serface"
<t...@nospam.camaswood.com> wrote:
>I think MFC is mostly just what it is. It works well for most native
>applications and for bigger things .NET seems like a better direction these
>days (which probably precludes C++ just because of easy of use).
A huge pile of fat, which will require you to get yourself
a mainframe, just to boot it up.
Basically, the MS strategy is this:
All they are doing is inventing the most complicated and
most confusing things, which will take you a couple of years
to learn to feel comfortable with.
Now, the trick is this:
While you are still learning the current .NET, or whatever
they feed you, meanwhile, they are working on the next
"latest and greatest".
And here is the boom part:
By the time you learn the current one, they will announce
their VS 2010. When you take a look at that, you WILL be
unpleasantly surprised that everything you learned about
software, is no longer applicable. You'd have to start
everything from top and learn all these weirdest
"technologies" they feed you.
Just to add 2 + 2, you'd have to go through trans-continental,
super-distributed, fully blah, blah, blah supporting, and
load about 50 libraries, just to start your "hello world"
program that displays 2 + 2 = 4.
That is the WHOLE "strategy" of the beast, which is what
they are, and that is EXACTLY how they manage to "stay ahead"
of the "competition".
Furthermore, when you look at some of their products,
you might find some dazzling features, but if you look
at your developer documentation, you can spend months,
trying to find the API to do that. But you won't find it.
Because that is their "internal code". So, you'd have to
hack it up, wasting more months, just to get to the point
of where they started with this new "technlogy".
Don't you see it yourselves?
And that is why Linux is steadily eating away on all this
"professiona" pile of fattest garbage there is under the
sun.
While you are talking about things, that were available
on Java 10 YEARS ago, and pipedreaming about MS bringing
the MFC to the level, produced by Linux "non-professionals"
YEARS ago, those kids are plugging away, writing ALL sorts
of code, and ALL of it is pulbic domain. So you can fix
anything you want, down to kernel level.
If it comes to the point where some other monster, Google,
is getting the idea of "taking out MS" in their head,
then MS has more problems that it can swallow.
They are bound to sink in all the fat they have been
producing since the time they got their first contract
from IBM on a ripped off copy of CP/M, written by
Garry Kildall, who did not even get a penny out of all this.
And THAT is the bottom line of all this talk.
:--}
Enjoy.
>Tom
>"David Ching" <d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote in message
>news:eC99PSzd...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Jonathan Wood" <jw...@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
>> news:uvjlVIzd...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> I'm still using 2005, so I know not of this cool stuff you speak. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I do know there is a lot I wish MS would have done to grow and nurture
>>>> MFC over the years.
>>>
>>> AFAIC, 2008 SP1 (or the feature pack) has shown that Microsoft has come
>>> to the same conclusion and is looking to rectify the situation.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree. Microsoft is only adding additional controls to MFC (that
>> could just as well, or better, be left to 3rd party control developers).
>> They are not innovating the core of MFC to introduce useful things like
>> layout panels.
>>
>> -- David
>>
>
--
Hendrik Schober
> In article <eqnDe#EdJHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, "Jonathan Wood"
> <jw...@softcircuits.com> wrote:
>
>> Definitely! I wish the OP would just go away.
>
> And I wish YOU go away.
> How's that?
Stupid.
Let me re-cap:
You jump into three communities of people who discuss things
and try to help each other at once, obviously without having
any prior knowledge of these communities, spamming them with
an unwanted ad. People are so tolerant as to actually look
at what you advertised, make up their mind, and tell you about
it, while politely telling you that this community doesn't
want ads like this.
You don't like what you hear, and instead of trying to learn
something from this experience, you resort to name-calling,
insulting newbies and well-respected members alike of these
communities.
What are you trying to accomplish with that? (I ask because
it's hard to imagine someone being stupid enough to actually
believe they're doing their site a service with that.)
As for me, all you have achieved is a well-earned place in
my kill file and that I will make sure to remember the name
of your side -- in order to avoid it like the plague. I don't
have the time to read these huge threads you spawned, so I
just kill them, too.
Schobi
pgadmin
>pgadmin wrote:
>> In article <eqnDe#EdJHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, "Jonathan Wood"
>> <jw...@softcircuits.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Definitely! I wish the OP would just go away.
>>
>> And I wish YOU go away.
>> How's that?
>
> Stupid.
Says who?
Sorry, but I just don't see you in da picture.
> Let me re-cap:
Uhu.
First of all, why did you stripped off all the post
and only left a couple of sentences? When did you go to
a shrink the last time? Looks like you need another visit.
Oki, doki. Lets start disassembling this royal writing
of yours. You are of a Royal Blood, aren't ya?
> You jump into three communities of people
Screw you.
What "communities" are you talking about?
Who da funk do you think you are?
What is your AUTHORITY?
What are you credits?
Who do you represent?
> who discuss things
> and try to help each other at once,
So, keep discussing.
Do I BOTHER you in ANY way, shape or form?
Why do you have to read the articles that OBVIOUSLY
are not what you are looking for?
Is it a methal problem?
> obviously without having
> any prior knowledge of these communities,
Screw that one as well.
Do you know ME?
Do you bother about ME?
Do you know WHO I am?
Do you know what I have done with ALL the fields,
related to these "communities", which is nothing more
than virtual entities in the virtual domain, pipedreaming
about their self-importance and significance.
> spamming them
You MUST be a sick pervert.
What are you trying to concoct here.
The information privided is 100% "on-topic" in ALL of those
"communities", and I know better what is "appropriate",
than you can ever imagine.
>with an unwanted ad.
Well, some people publish their FAQs, making it look like
it represents something.
MOST of you put the URL links to your sites in your signatures.
Does THAT constitute an "unwanted ad"?
Does THAT constitute a spam?
What do you know about spam anyway?
You see, you are spammed out of your brains every place you look,
from the time you get up from bed to the time you go back to it.
But you don't seem to have enough brains to even comprehend that.
So, you pick up a totally appropriate material and start making
up some horseshit story out of thin air.
For what?
What are you trying to achieve with all this?
> People are so tolerant
First, speak for yourself. Are you a traffic light here?
The interpreter of what people think, feel or do?
What is this need to speak for others and represent yourself
as someone, who has ANY authority to do that.
I, personally, do not authorize you to speak on my behalf
on ANY matter or subject.
> as to actually look
> at what you advertised, make up their mind,
How do you know?
Did you coduct a poll?
Did you ASK them what they do or why?
>and tell you about
> it, while politely telling you
You mean like this? <uvGpU$5aJHA...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
Yep, I have seen how "police" and "nice" some of you are.
Nothing new, weally.
> that this community doesn't
> want ads like this.
One more time: SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
People can say what they want. They don't need some
traffic light, telling them what to do or think.
> You don't like what you hear, and instead of trying to learn
> something from this experience,
What "experience" are you running your mealy mouth,
mr. teacher wannabe?
I don't need your lessons about "communities", Usenet,
programming languages, hardware, or just about anythin you
can imagine in that "kerosine lamp between your ears".
> you resort to name-calling,
Wut?
:--}
You mean donkeyass?
Well, that was a COMPIMENT, you see.
Do you go and poke your nose into affairs of others usually?
When you eat at the restaurant, do you have a habbit of
looking into the other's plate, instead of your own?
:--}
> insulting newbies and well-respected members alike of these
> communities.
Oh, man, you REALLY need to go to a shrink.
Well-respected MEMBERS?
You mean WHO?
Not you, I hope. Because I don't have a shread of respect for
you after your rotten concoctions and fabrications, made out
of 100% lies, and your rotten whining, and your rotten,
pathological habbit of trying to put others "right",
while being a chickenshit impersonator yourself.
That is simply a complex of inferiority.
You MUST "prove" to others that you are something,
aren't you?
> What are you trying to accomplish with that? (I ask because
> it's hard to imagine someone being stupid enough to actually
> believe they're doing their site a service with that.)
>
> As for me, all you have achieved is a well-earned place in
> my kill file
Oh, finally!
My favorite thing.
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are my favorite kind.
Just make sure not to pop up from that killfile.
Secondly, only the most rotten sickos come and announce
to the whole world that they have "killfiled" someone,
like it means something to others.
Who do you think you are to come and announce here
that you have killfiled someone?
Are you a king of some sort?
Some REFERENCE on ANYTHING,
you lil speck of dust, tryin to get on my noble way?
> and that I will make sure to remember the name
> of your side -- in order to avoid it like the plague. I don't
> have the time to read these huge threads you spawned, so I
> just kill them, too.
The most stoopid stuff one can imagine.
Finally, this crap is TOTALLY off topic in ANY of those
"communities". It has NOTHING to do with the subjects
of those groups.
Secondly, it is nothing more than a PERSONAL attack,
you lil ding dong, thinking he is so big and important,
that he can overshadow nothing less than the Sun itself.
And, if I see a SINGLE followup to my posts from you,
you are going to be labbled a cunning pervert and a
pathological liar.
> Schobi
About the best thing you can do is just to get out of my way.
One more time:
"If you don't like something, do not read it,
do not follow up on it, and just forget about it".
-- Russ Allbery, da Godhead of Big-8
Are you a pervert?
David Wilkinson
> .NET performance is certainly an issue but .NET apps are still very
> usable even if they are noticeably less snappy than native apps. In
> general, all but the most impatient will be satisfied with .NET apps
> running on a reasonably modern system. Especially since the
> productivity of developing in .NET means the app tends to be more
> full-featured and nice to use once it gets started.
>
> I am using Xenocode PostBuild to get around the need to have .NET
> installed.
>
> I guess we define "wiz-bang" differently. For me, the real "wiz-bang"
> features of .NET are the reusable things like layout panels. I rely on
> the Telerik 3rd party framework for the ribbon (which of course comes
> with a designer).
>
> thought of) would represent probably 20x time the commitment. Again, no
> one is saying their effort is insubstantial, but it is far from what I
> would call a recommitment to MFC. I'm comparing to the kind of
> deliverables Microsoft had in the VC2 - VC6 timeframes which established
> VC as the premier development tool of Windows apps. Show me those kind
> of deliverables and then I will recognize a recommitment to MFC.
> I don't have any direct evidence but it does seem a stretch to call
> those deliverables a recommitment to MFC, so it is speculation that it
> was for other reasons advantageous to MS. I'd love to be proven wrong
> and see some substantial additions to MFC(X) in Dev10.
David:
For me the major reason I do not consider incrementally allowing .NET components
into my existing MFC applications is the need to switch to dynamic linking of
CTR/MFC. Does Xenocode PostBuild do anything about that, or it just for .NET code?
As for MFC, I will not be happy until every way in which the IDE in inferior to
VC6 in convenience, reliability and speed is eliminated. I cannot believe this
would be a major effort. Surely it must be possible to figure out why the Add
(Control) Variable Wizard takes so long to come up (at least for some people,
including me). Of course, while they were at it they should replace this Wizard
with something at least as functional as the member variable tab of the VC6
ClassWizard. I cannot believe that one of this could not achieve this in a few
days, if given the opportunity (and some money...). Yet it is over six years
with nothing being done about it.
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
David Ching
news:%23br6ZRJ...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> David:
>
> For me the major reason I do not consider incrementally allowing .NET
> components into my existing MFC applications is the need to switch to
> dynamic linking of CTR/MFC. Does Xenocode PostBuild do anything about
> that, or it just for .NET code?
>
Yes, you would still have to dynamically link to CRT/MFC but Xenocode would
bundle those DLL's (along with the .NET ones) into one huge .exe, so your
customers only see the one huge .exe. But you would need to use Xenocode
Virtual Application Studio (another product of theirs) instead of PostBuild
since that is the one that handles bundling native components as well
(PostBuild is .NET only).
But why is dynamically linking CRT/MFC a problem? WIth app-local deployment
this is easily done. But since you (without Xenocode) need to install .NET
anyway, why not just install CRT/MFC redist?
> As for MFC, I will not be happy until every way in which the IDE in
> inferior to VC6 in convenience, reliability and speed is eliminated. I
> cannot believe this would be a major effort. Surely it must be possible to
> figure out why the Add (Control) Variable Wizard takes so long to come up
> (at least for some people, including me). Of course, while they were at it
> they should replace this Wizard with something at least as functional as
> the member variable tab of the VC6 ClassWizard. I cannot believe that one
> of this could not achieve this in a few days, if given the opportunity
> (and some money...). Yet it is over six years with nothing being done
> about it.
>
Yes, that wizard is a concern for many. I'm not sure why it takes so long
for it to come up for you, though. It's pretty snappy for me.
It would have been nice to have added the Add (Control) Variable Wizard
several years ago. But after several years of .NET development, I've kind
of moved on and now consider the entire concept of manually adding control
variables quaint. MFC GUI control classes should really have a Name
property as in WinForms that specifies how to access the control from code.
Again, more of making MFC a modern GUI framework.
Thanks,
David
Tom Serface
Tom
"David Ching" <d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote in message
news:upXMbWBe...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...