Loan Payment glitch in Money 2007

[Anna]

I ran into a glitch tonight with my Loan Payments in my scheduled bills
(Bill Summary) and I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this. When
I click a Loan Payment (house, car, equity loan that is categorized as
"Loan Payment:Home" etc) and try to "Enter in the Register", the
account that the money is withdrawn from comes up missing in the dialog
box. On the main Bill Summary screen I can still see the account that
the loan is to be withdrawn from, but after I hit Enter, the next
screen shows all the transaction information, but with a missing
account. I have to manually reenter the account. So I deleted a
Scheduled loan payment and recreated it. The SAME thing happened with
the newly created payment. I also tried to ADD a new Loan Payment and
when I clicked on Enter into Register and added the missing account,
the transaction was entered, but the scheduled payment remained on the
Bill Summary page for July. I entered it several times and it still
remained in July. I gave up and deleted it.

I have been reading the threads where some of you have been Removing
all Bill Data to see if that improves your performance. I was going to
wait to do this until I read more reports However, I may end up having
to do that to fix this Loan Payment problem. (I have around 60 various
payments, deposts, transfers scheduled & EVERYTIME I click on Bill
Summary page, it takes a FULL 10 seconds of blank white screen before
the page actually appears.)

Anyway...Is anyone else seeing this glitch with Loan Payments?

Anna

[Anna]

UPDATE: As I continue to toy with this problem (while I wait on MS
Support chat to start...now 1 hours 45 minutes), I have discoverd that
for my CAR LOAN account, the BILLS DETAILS at the bottom of the CHANGE
ACCOUNT SETTINGS page was incorrect. There are three lines of Data. I
could NOT change the next DUE DATE OR the ACCOUNT from which the loan
was to be paid. I tried changing it in the CHANGE LOAN TERMS area & by
editing & then by deleting and recreating the bill in the BILLS
SUMMARYarea. No effect on the BILL DETAILS.

Next I deleted the scheduled loan payment and recreated it from a
previous bill in June by right clicking on the loan payment and
selecting MAKE RECURRING. I was asked if I wanted to change the Loan
and the Bill data for future transactions (something like that) and I
clicked yes (top choice of 3). This fixed the BILL DETAILS
problem...all three lines were now correct. BUT now I am back to the
orginal problem which is: When I select the next Car Loan Payment due
in the BILL SUMMARY area, the ADD TRANSACTION box comes up with a blank
account box. I have to change the date to the scheduled date from
today's date AND click the drop down box to choose the account. What a
pain!

Ok.. now I'm obsessed with finding out what's causing this problem.
Anyone have any ideas?

Anna

[Anna]

UPDATE: As I continue to toy with this problem (while I wait on MS
Support chat to start...now 1 hours 45 minutes), I have discoverd that
for my CAR LOAN account, the BILLS DETAILS at the bottom of the CHANGE
ACCOUNT SETTINGS page was incorrect. There are three lines of Data. I
could NOT change the next DUE DATE OR the ACCOUNT from which the loan
was to be paid. I tried changing it in the CHANGE LOAN TERMS area & by
editing & then by deleting and recreating the bill in the BILLS
SUMMARYarea. No effect on the BILL DETAILS.

Next I deleted the scheduled loan payment and recreated it from a
previous bill in June by right clicking on the loan payment and
selecting MAKE RECURRING. I was asked if I wanted to change the Loan
and the Bill data for future transactions (something like that) and I
clicked yes (top choice of 3). This fixed the BILL DETAILS
problem...all three lines were now correct. BUT now I am back to the
orginal problem which is: When I select the next Car Loan Payment due
in the BILL SUMMARY area, the ADD TRANSACTION box comes up with a blank
account box. I have to change the date to the scheduled date from
today's date AND click the drop down box to choose the account. What a
pain!

Ok.. now I'm obsessed with finding out what's causing this problem.
Anyone have any ideas?

Anna

[Anna]

Sorry for the multiple posts. My son just called when I was in the
middle of posting the message. He is 19 and had just had a fender
bender. I went out and when I came back I refreshed the page & somehow
it added my message 3 times.

[john...@hotmail.com]

Anna,

Must be a bug. If you go to the Bill Calendar and double click on the
date of your loan payment, a window opens with a list of all the bills
scheduled for that day. If you select the loan payment and click
"Enter in Register", the payment account IS displayed.

Wonder why it works in the Bill Calendar but not from the Bills
Summary? You may want to include this in your questions to MS. Best
of Luck and keep us posted.

Regards,
JB

[Spadowski]

I looked at my scheduled mortgage payment and its doing the same thing
that you describe. When I open it to enter it into the registry, the
account field is empty. Yet, it knows the account because when I
select "Edit bill series" it shows the correct account.
-Spad

[Anna]

You are right. It works from the Bill Calendar for me too. I had not
tried that. I'll let MS support know that when/if they reply. I may
have to wait on the 24 hour e-mail support, since no one has responded
in the chat window.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Dick Watson]

To this annoyance, let me add another.

If you are entering the transaction in advance, it dates it today and
computes interest accordingly.

Once again, I am forced to ask: What were they
thinking??!?!?!?!?!???!!!!!!!!

"Anna" <rhod...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1153634274.1...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[john...@hotmail.com]

Dick,

But if you enter it from the Bill Calendar it dates it for the
scheduled date. I assume if you change the date from Bills Summary it
will compute interest correctly.

As for "[w]hat were they thinking?", don't you agree this appears to be
a bug and not a feature?

Regards,
JB

[Dick Watson]

Perhaps I'll have to enter loan payments from Bill Calendar than. Since I
have a weekly payment on a 401k loan, I'll see this issue a lot.

I'd suspect that whacking the from account is a bug. Changing the date?
Maybe not so much.

I guess what were they thinking also applies to why were they even messing
with the code. If they weren't going to improve it, why didn't they just
leave it alone? They certainly left everything else alone.

<john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153708552.6...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[Cal Learner-- MVP]

In microsoft.public.money, Dick Watson wrote:

>Perhaps I'll have to enter loan payments from Bill Calendar than. Since I
>have a weekly payment on a 401k loan, I'll see this issue a lot.

Suppose you edit the bill series to "automatically enter transaction
into my register..." __ days in advance. This will pre-fill the date
and account from the bills.

Perhaps you could have it enter a Memo of "pre-entered" that you
could modify after the is in the register.

[Dick Watson]

I've wondered about that. Do you suppose/have you confirmed that when it
goes to automagically enter, it will get the from account correct?

Either way I have to touch each of them for classification since we still,
fifteen versions later, can't classify a scheduled loan payment.

If I set this up in real data--as opposed to a testcase--I won't know for a
month as I entered all of August's in one sitting yesterday.

Just to share, here's that drill (note that 11 of the following 14 steps per
weekly transaction are required because Money is Broken or Stupid, as the
case may be):

Select the next scheduled Loan Payment

Click Enter in Register

Enter the from account that WAS already setup in the scheduled item (since
they broke this in M07)

Fix the date back to what the scheduled item said before I clicked Enter in
Register (since they also broke this in M07)

Click Split (since you can't classify a scheduled loan payment)

Click on the principal transfer subclass (since you can't classify a
scheduled loan payment)

Type the start of the name (since you can't classify a scheduled loan
payment)

Click on the interest subclass (since you can't classify a scheduled loan
payment)

Type the start of the name (since you can't classify a scheduled loan
payment)

Click Done (since you can't classify a scheduled loan payment)

Click Enter

Repeat three more times

Go to the loan account (since Money can't seem to number payments for a
non-monthly loan)

Edit the first payment without a number to have the next number (since Money
can't seem to number payments for a non-monthly loan)

Repeat three more times (since Money can't seem to number payments for a
non-monthly loan)

(That's just to get the loan payment side done. The Investment MMF side on
entering interest transactions and sell transactions is next...)

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_ne...@please.tnx> wrote in message
news:egt9c21hev33tdeac...@4ax.com...

[Cal Learner-- MVP]

In microsoft.public.money, Dick Watson wrote:

>I've wondered about that. Do you suppose/have you confirmed that when it
>goes to automagically enter, it will get the from account correct?

I would certainly expect it would, but I can't be sure there is a
problem that I don't know about.

>
>Either way I have to touch each of them for classification since we still,
>fifteen versions later, can't classify a scheduled loan payment.
>
>If I set this up in real data--as opposed to a testcase--I won't know for a
>month as I entered all of August's in one sitting yesterday.
>
>Just to share, here's that drill (note that 11 of the following 14 steps per
>weekly transaction are required because Money is Broken or Stupid, as the
>case may be):
>
>Select the next scheduled Loan Payment
>
>Click Enter in Register
>
>Enter the from account that WAS already setup in the scheduled item (since
>they broke this in M07)

I set up a test loan, and the account was already correct when I
click Bills, right-clicked the next payment, and chose
Edit->EditSeries. I did not account for classification.

I tried to tell it to enter the transaction into the register 99
days in advance, but it limited me to 31. I tried 31. Closed Money
2007. Opened Money 2007. I checked the expected account, and there
below the line was the payment dated 24 Aug. The category was
LoanPayment:TestAccountName.

>
>Fix the date back to what the scheduled item said before I clicked Enter in
>Register (since they also broke this in M07)
>
>Click Split (since you can't classify a scheduled loan payment)

Most people don't classify their loan payments, so that should be
simpler for them.

[Dick Watson]

When I edit the series, it is correct. Only when I go to Enter in Register
does it blank out. At that point, classification is not even yet a factor.

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_ne...@please.tnx> wrote in message

news:581ac2t1a7rljg5i4...@4ax.com...

[Cal Learner-- MVP]

In microsoft.public.money, Dick Watson wrote:

>When I edit the series, it is correct. Only when I go to Enter in Register
>does it blank out. At that point, classification is not even yet a factor.

To work around the bug, I would not use the "Enter into Register"
button for a loan payment. Just let the transactions get entered
automatically.

In a test copy, I would try setting the "days in advance" for the
transaction to get it entered the maximum number of days that it
will allow. Close Money. Open Money. See if that loan payment is
entered into the proper register with the proper with the proper
date, category, and maybe memo. The classification, if used, you
would still need to do manually.

[JohnA]

I do not see this problem... "Enter in Register" has the correct account in
all the bills I tried including loans/mortgage. I wonder what the
difference is...

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_ne...@please.tnx> wrote in message

news:2f3ac2h14rqff0sq1...@4ax.com...

[Dick Watson]

Good question. I see this on Loan Payment transactions. All others work
fine. I just duped this in a test file with a new loan account and its
scheduled loan payment. I also duped it dating the transaction to today, not
the date that was scheduled.

"JohnA" <Jo...@TheAtas.org-spamguard> wrote in message
news:OFCncY5r...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

[john...@hotmail.com]

JA,

Can you provide more detail? Which version of M07 are you using?
Which category are you using for the loan/mortgage transaction(s)? Do
you use Essential or Advanced Bills?

Thanks,
JB

[john...@hotmail.com]

Anna,

It also works correctly from Cash Flow. Right click the Loan Payment
when viewing the payment account in Cash Flow and then select Enter in
Register.

(...just something about that Bills Summary)

Regards,
JB

[JohnA]

I'm using M07 Premium with an upgraded Money file. The categories are Loan
Payment: Home Mortgage and Loan: Mortgage Interest. I use Advanced Bills.

<john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153818220....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Dick Watson]

Loan:Mortgage Interest is just an expense category. Loan Payment: Home
Mortgage would sound like a "special" Loan Payment, but my question is this:
do you have an account named Home Mortgage defined in Money as a Loan
Account?

"JohnA" <Jo...@TheAtas.org-spamguard> wrote in message

news:%23AzgQ9%23rGH...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

[Anna]

JB,
You're right about working in Cash Flow. It seems to work everywhere
except in Bill Summary. There is also ANOTHER problem with Loan
Payment in Bill Summary that I found.

I deleted the originally scheduled Loan Payment. I created a NEW Loan
Payment to replace the deleted one. It LOOKS the same as the original.
It has the same problem when you click to Enter in Reigster... no
account listed, today's date instead of the scheduled one....BUT A NEW
PROBLEM IS ADDED. When you click on OK to Enter in Register (after you
add the account/date), the payment is entered... BUT the scheduled
payment remains in Bill Summary for the SAME DATE you just entered. In
other words, the August 1 Loan Payment is entered into the register,
but when I return to Bills Summary, I still have the Loan Payment
scheduled for August 1. I can enter it AGAIN, and it is STILL scheduled
for August 1. AGAIN, if you enter if from Bill Calendar or Cash Flow,
the scheduled payment will move to the next month.

If you go to the Loan Account and make an exisiting one Recurring, then
you are back to the original problem, but at least it will move to the
next month. However, I'm not sure how one is suppose to create a NEW
LOAN PAYMENT with these restrictions.

[john...@hotmail.com]

Anna,

I suspect it has something to do with the date being set to "today".
If so, I'm wondering if the transaction gets entered as an additional
payment, regardless of date change/correction, instead of entering the
next scheduled one (the latter being left in queue).

As for new loan payments, I suppose you can setup the recurring payment
and then just enter from Bill Calendar/Cash Flow as a workaround
(haven't tried to find out though).

I would think a fix for this should be included in an M07 update but
considering the list of past items never addressed and/or carried
along, nothing would suprise me!

Regards,
JB

[Anna]

Here is the reply I just received from a MS Tech support person on this
problem:
"At this time I am going to send the case up to our research team so
that they can look into the information and see if this is a glitch in
the software or what is causing the issue."

[JohnA]

Never mind...can't read! Confirmed that this is indeed a problem... changed
mortgage bill to Direct Debit or Write Check. Sorry about that.

"Dick Watson" <littlegr...@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:u$xj5J$rGHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

[Anna]

Well..I had a MS technician call me on this "glitch" yesterday, who
confirmed what we were seeing with the Loan Payment. He then checked
with the MS programmers and called me back today. According to the
programmers, the Loan Payment glitch is designed this way for the
following reason...

You can now click on "Enter into register" and pay an additional amount
on your loan at any time. The account was left blank so you could
choose another account (such as savings) and pay the extra amount on
your loan. That's why the date defaulted to today's date. That would
also explain why the dialog box is an "Add Transaction" box. However,
if you go to the Bill Calendar and actually click on the scheduled
date, it would enter the regularly scheduled payment.

So it doesn't look like a "fix" will be forthcoming. In all fairness to
the technician, he spent a lot of time walking through the program
with me on the line, creating an account and recreating the problem AND
he called me back today. So I guess I'll learn to live with the M07
way.

Anna

[Dick Watson]

What a crock of ***t.

The same could be said for virtually ANY scheduled item. Why don't credit
card payments, to pick just one, work the exact same way? I scheduled it
this way, I want to enter it this way. Why else would I have scheduled it?

Makes me wanna puke.

"Anna" <rhod...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:1154564096.7...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Dick Watson]

And if I want to change it I surely can--have been able to for, what, 12 or
13 versions now? Nothing about Enter in Register prevents me from changing
it on the fly. Blanking it out just increases the error and annoyance rate
for no good purpose.

"Dick Watson" <littlegr...@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in

message news:uNZb3irt...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

[Anna]

Yes, I find it annoying as well. It seems like a convenient excuse to
cover up their mistake. I DID make sure he understood that this had NOT
been a problem in M06 and others in this forum had also found it to be
a problem.

If they were going to fix something, I wish they had fixed the problem
my Loan Payments download as credit card accounts. So I have two
accounts for each of my Loan Payments (Car, Home, Equity). The first
account downloads bank transactions. The second account keeps up with
Principal/Interest when it is entered from the register as Loan
Payment. I only keep both accounts so that I can compare the bank's
principal/interest each month to my account's principal/interest. Now
THAT is what they should have tried to fix instead of changing
something that worked.

[JohnA]

Absolutely, I agree... the default value for the account field should be
what was scheduled. That's the whole reason for defining scheduled payments
so that the default values are presented as defined in the scheduled bill
with the option of changing them.

-- John

"Dick Watson" <littlegr...@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in

message news:eSLABqrt...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

[Cristof Falk]

Speaking of default values as defined, I could swear in previous versions
that, if a transaction came in when the bill was paid in MSN Bill Pay, that
it would use the category of the last usage of that payee. But in M2007, it
has it blanked out. That wouldn't be so bad except for those credit card and
liability account payments, where there is a payment, but no corresponding
credit to the other account. So now I have to browse through all the
transactions coming up (or remember what I did) and see if any categories
are blank.

"JohnA" <Jo...@TheAtas.org-spamguard> wrote in message

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