Re: Compacting is successful, but Database Utility crashes before rebuilding is finished

[rain...@officeformac.com]

On 11/11/09 9:11 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0, "Thr...@officeformac.com" <Thr...@officeformac.com> wrote:

Today I rebuilt my database with the Utility in preparation for the update from 12.2.1 to 12.2.3.

Sometimes rebuilding does more harm than good. I prefer to use export all items as Entourage archive (.rge) file rather than rely on the database utility to verify. If your items export without an error then you know your database is good plus you have a backup of your data.

Compacting is also not suggested unless you are running out of disk space.

Rebuilding should be avoided unless there is database corruption. Here's what Jud Spencer [one of Entourage’s developers] said on the issue:

There is a small benefit to compacting regularly. Entourage maintains internal sort tables. Those sort tables are optimized on a compact.

However, you should only choose the rebuild option if your database is damaged. Many people believe that rebuilding your database will protect you from future corruption. That just isn’t the case.

--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page   <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog  <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
Follow us on twitter <https://twitter.com/entouragehelp>  

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

Thanks, but I find this quite alarming. To me, this means there is no way to prevent corruption and data loss, because no matter how carefully I guard against unnecessary accretion, there is always some, and the database always eventually requires rebuilding, because errors eventually begin to appear in the interface even when no problems with the database are reported either automatically or when a deliberate check is run. The latest example of such a glitch for me was that the folder list for my local Outbox started including a listing for a single unread message, although when selected, the folder showed no messages in the list even though the list wasn't filtered. Running a database check (which BTW reported no problems) was all that was needed to make the folder list representation for the unread message (the number 1 in parentheses next to the folder title) disappear. I interpreted that as an indication that something was wrong with the database.

It's not possible to preserve category assignments through exporting to .rge and reimporting. For that reason, I don't consider exporting to .rge files to constitute a robust method for backing up.

Entourage needs to provide users with a nondestructive way to insure that its data is robustly maintained. If rebuilding the database doesn't provide that kind of solution, then I guess none exists.

[rain...@officeformac.com]

On 11/23/09 9:07 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"Thr...@officeformac.com" <Thr...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> It's not possible to preserve category assignments through exporting to .rge
> and reimporting. For that reason, I don't consider exporting to .rge files to
> constitute a robust method for backing up.

Messages and Contacts keeps categories when exporting as .rge. With the
Export-Import Scripts (shareware) you can get categories for notes, tasks
and events.

>
> Entourage needs to provide users with a nondestructive way to insure that its
> data is robustly maintained. If rebuilding the database doesn't provide that
> kind of solution, then I guess none exists.

I understand that the database is going away with Office Next due out
holiday season 2010.

--
Diane

[alc...@officeformac.com]

Hi Throski,

My name is Alex, and I work on the Mac Office team. I'd like to take this issue offline with you. If you can send me an e-mail at alc...@microsoft.com, describing the current state of your problem (I realize you've done a pretty good job at that already), I'd like to see what we can do about your database.

Thanks,
Alex

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

>If you can send me an e-mail at alc...@microsoft.com, describing the current state of your problem...

I sent you a private message. Thanks.

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

I had to give up removing links even after creating a QuicKeys shortcut to handle it recursively. If I deleted an item, it could take a very long time to get the Entourage interface back. There seemed to be no practical way to manage it but to migrate preservable data to a new identity. Doing that is not trivial, and even though much data can be retained, not all can. I'm not happy.

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

> Messages and Contacts keeps categories when exporting as .rge. With the
> Export-Import Scripts (shareware) you can get categories for notes, tasks
> and events.
> >

Thanks for replying. I have mainly used categories in conjunction with notes rather than messages and contacts. I can't imagine using the same categories to organize contacts that I would use to organize other types of information, though. However, if you're referring to the Paul Berkowitz Emport-Import scripts, they haven't yet been updated to work with Office 2008, have they? If there are other scripts that provide that functionality, please tell me where to find them.

> I understand that the database is going away with Office Next due out
> holiday season 2010.

That certainly could be a beneficial change. I hope it will.

[Diane Ross]

On 11/25/09 9:18 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"Thr...@officeformac.com" <Thr...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> I can't imagine using the same categories to organize contacts that I would
> use to organize other types of information, though.

You can have specific categories just for your other info. You could even
start then with n_ to indicate they were notes only, for example.

> However, if you're referring to the Paul Berkowitz Emport-Import scripts, they
> haven't yet been updated to work with Office 2008, have they? If there are
> other scripts that provide that functionality, please tell me where to find
> them.

It�s not Office 2008, but the OS that�s the problem and it�s only with the
unlock script. You have to enter the code into each script rather than the
blanket unlock. Some of the scripts do have problems in Snow Leopard.

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

> You can have specific categories just for your other info. You could even
> start then with n_ to indicate they were notes only, for example.

Well, of course that's true, but I was just trying to explain how it is that I've come to use categories almost exclusively with notes.

>
> It&#65533;s not Office 2008, but the OS that&#65533;s the problem and it&#65533;s only with the

> unlock script. You have to enter the code into each script rather than the
> blanket unlock. Some of the scripts do have problems in Snow Leopard.

OK, but there seem to be a number of details to take into consideration to decide whether they will do me any good. I'm trying to contact the author with specific questions about whether I can do what I want to do with them in Snow Leopard. I'll reply if I get it worked out.

[Diane Ross]

On 11/30/09 2:20 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0, "Thr...@officeformac.com" <Thr...@officeformac.com> wrote:

OK, but there seem to be a number of details to take into consideration to decide whether they will do me any good. I'm trying to contact the author with specific questions about whether I can do what I want to do with them in Snow Leopard. I'll reply if I get it worked out.

The author is very busy with his personal work and rarely is seen on the newsgroups now.

--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page   <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog  <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>

YouTalk <http://tinyurl.com/bzcrjy> <-- Entourage mailing list
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/entouragehelp>

[iat...@officeformac.com]

> Thanks, but I find this quite alarming.

Hi Throski,

I strongly second your opinion. I just ran into the same problem:

When I tried to recover some "lost links" between messages w/ categories DatabaseUtility tells me:
(i) Your database is working correctly (Size 2.82G)
(ii) Your database has been compacted successfully (Size: a few bytes less than before)

When trying to rebuild the Database it goes through Step 1 - 4 rather fast, but with step 5 it suffers a full hour in silence, being totally unresponsive. However, the RAM file it creates slowly increases in size until it almost reaches 2.82G again. Finally, it tries to write out the new Database to disk but stops at 2.02G. Then thread 4 (out of 6) dies and DatabaseUtility crahes and I'm left with the CrashReportUtility. I filed several crash reports with MS, and wonder what will happen. All this on a MacPro Intel-3GHz-8core running OSX 10.6.2 and MSO 12.2.3. Did Alex offer any help? Please let me know.

@Alex: If you're still listening: I'd be happy to share the DB with you.

@Diane: IMHO, this IS a serious issue. I use Entourage to keep track of my projects w/ students. I suspect that I'm loosing emails w/ attachments now & then for unknown reasons although it's difficult to prove once the emails are gone from the mail server. I understand that the Database will die in MacOffice, but for archive purposes I badly need data consistency NOW.

[Diane Ross]

On 12/23/09 7:27 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"iat...@officeformac.com" <iat...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> @Diane: IMHO, this IS a serious issue. I use Entourage to keep track of my
> projects w/ students. I suspect that I'm loosing emails w/ attachments now &
> then for unknown reasons although it's difficult to prove once the emails are
> gone from the mail server. I understand that the Database will die in
> MacOffice, but for archive purposes I badly need data consistency NOW.

It's confusing when you add your problem onto an similar thread. We have no
info on what version of Entourage you are running, or what OS. In the
future, it's best to start your own thread.

[Diane Ross]

On 11/30/09 2:20 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"Thr...@officeformac.com" <Thr...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> Well, of course that's true, but I was just trying to explain how it is that
> I've come to use categories almost exclusively with notes.

You can export calendar events, notes and tasks with categories, but you
have to export each category separately.

Under File > Export select as Entourage archive (.rge) file then select
"items in a category" select Category popup option. Uncheck messages and
contacts. (I suggest testing in a new Identity by importing to verify you
are getting the info you want.)

You will need to export each category for these items. Remember to delete
the .rge file in the folder list. It's added where there are messages or
not.

Big drawback on this is time. I don't see doing this on a regular basis as
backup. However, it will get you into a new Identity.

Happy Holidays!

[iat...@officeformac.com]

> On 12/23/09 7:27 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,

> "iat...@officeformac.com" wrote:
> It's confusing when you add your problem onto an similar thread. We have no
> info on what version of Entourage you are running, or what OS. In the
> future, it's best to start your own thread.

Sorry, Diane, but all the info is in my reply to Throski (para3): OSX stands for SnowLeopard v10.6.2 and MSO for Microsoft Office Mac 2008, v12.2.3. I have no evidence that Entourage is at a different version number. (i) My impression is that my problem is the same as Throski's, and others should know this. (ii) I asked one question that only Throski can answer. That's why I inserted my problem in this place. I didn't know how to insert an "in response to" tag.
- + -

[Diane Ross]

On 12/24/09 4:35 PM, in article 59bab...@webcrossing.JaKIaxP2ac0,
"iat...@officeformac.com" <iat...@officeformac.com> wrote:

> I asked one question that only Throski can answer. That's why I inserted my
> problem in this place. I didn't know how to insert an "in response to" tag.

As long as it's a reply to the thread it's OK, but when you ask about
something different as you did in the question to me, then it start getting
confusing.

The Mactopia Forums are poorly designed. You can use the Entourage
newsreader for easier access and searching. The Forum and the Entourage are
currently tied together.

See this article for help subscribing using the Entourage newsreader:

<http://tinyurl.com/beds97>

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

I plan to try Diane's suggestion, because sometimes I don't get a notification that a reply has been submitted. I finally got one (notification of reply) but have gone without the requested information for longer than I would have preferred.

[alc...@officeformac.com]

Sorry all for the delayed reply. For subsequent releases of Outlook, we're taking a look at the database, particularly for issues like these.

@iatros: If you still have that DB on hand, we'd be interested in seeing it, with your permission of course.

@Throski: Again, I apologize for the lateness. In any case, I unfortunately can't even be sure that there's a restorative solution at this point. If, like iatros, you'd be willing to offer your DB for our own investigation moving forward, we might be able to pin down root cause. This is completely at your discretion.

Alex

[Thr...@officeformac.com]

I'm willing to try if I can find the database that needs fixing. It's a little difficult to keep up with retired data these days. Where should I send it if I can find it? Thanks.

[alc...@officeformac.com]

Thanks Throski.

If you manage to find the database, please e-mail me at alc...@microsoft.com to continue this offline.