The clock is ticking
nib
that has kept me from doing it thus far. Another slew of deaths yesterday
has me doubting whether I have what it takes to play a mage. I'm level 11
and struggling. List of things that killed me yesterday (in the span of
about 1.5 hours):
Great Mattie
Pack of drudge prowlers
Pack of Carrion Shreths
Ice Golem (with a random spell from a limestone)
Ice Golem (by himself)
Ash Gromnie (1 hit as I was running by)
This sucks.
--
nib, non-spell casting swordsman
n...@Springmail.com
Unofficial (and out-dated) FAQ: http://www.mindspring.com/~zachw/ac/faq
John Fix
I stuck pretty close to Eastham until I was level 14, then headed to Mayoi
and hunted near there until level 20. After that, I moved to Waijhou and
leveled quickly in Disaster Maze draining Tuskers. You can head to Waijhou
sooner (even now) and drain drudges from the house, but be careful of the
occasional Skeletons who will drain you quickly.
I'm 4 school mage, nothing spec'ed, and I'm now at level 35.
Belkin in Thistledown
"nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:eLUg6VgtAHA.1344@tkmsftngp04...
Fist de Yuma
kills. You heal him. A lot fewer deaths and much more xp.
"nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:eLUg6VgtAHA.1344@tkmsftngp04...
disconnected
> A mage is not easy to start. Try teaming with a fighter. You de-buff, he
> kills. You heal him. A lot fewer deaths and much more xp.
I tried this. It was incredibally frustrating. I said, are you using
low power or high power on that sword? Slashing or piercing? Slashing.
Ok, slashing vuln, and watch as they poke away. I thought you said..
Sorry, had to use a faster setting to catch up to them. Ok, so piercing
vuln, and watch as they swing wide, ignoring me.
Why is imperil 4 so much harder to cast than armor 4, btw? I have a hell
of a time getting an imperil off, and any vuln less than 4 doesn't seem
worth casting.
Anyhow, I felt like I just burned a lot of components being totally
unnecessary. I'm sure the armor 4 was nice, but at level 11, just
overkill, really.
We weren't really sure where to hunt. Being a newbie mage is really
tough. Makes me just want to learn where to wall drain, and just do that
to get out of the newbie levels.
.
Senjin
nib wrote in message ...
>Each day I get closer to deleting my mage. Its only some sick sense of
pride
>that has kept me from doing it thus far. Another slew of deaths yesterday
>has me doubting whether I have what it takes to play a mage. I'm level 11
>and struggling.
Perhaps if you considered playing a mage a version of the "Iron Man" mode of
playing... :)
Ghoti
"disconnected" <chaosc...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.152942ba1...@news.nycap.rr.com...
> In article <OFwwIYhtAHA.2176@tkmsftngp03>, c...@primenet.com says...
> > A mage is not easy to start. Try teaming with a fighter. You de-buff,
he
> > kills. You heal him. A lot fewer deaths and much more xp.
>
> I tried this. It was incredibally frustrating. I said, are you using
> low power or high power on that sword? Slashing or piercing? Slashing.
> Ok, slashing vuln, and watch as they poke away. I thought you said..
> Sorry, had to use a faster setting to catch up to them. Ok, so piercing
> vuln, and watch as they swing wide, ignoring me.
>
Been there.. Hook up w/ and uber staffer, they always use bludgeon... or
elementals)
> Why is imperil 4 so much harder to cast than armor 4, btw? I have a hell
> of a time getting an imperil off, and any vuln less than 4 doesn't seem
> worth casting.
Because it is a de-buff. Kinda like casting a Level 4.5 spell.
>
> Anyhow, I felt like I just burned a lot of components being totally
> unnecessary. I'm sure the armor 4 was nice, but at level 11, just
> overkill, really.
>
> We weren't really sure where to hunt. Being a newbie mage is really
> tough. Makes me just want to learn where to wall drain, and just do that
> to get out of the newbie levels.
>
At level 11 (4school no spec) I was hunting around Lin, near the Cit. Those
outdoor luggies LOVE to throw rocks. Vuln - Dodge - War -dodge - lather -
rinse - repeat
If you are tossing level 3 vuln followed by level 3 or 4 war, you should
drop em pretty quick. There was one mountain out there you can run around
the base for hours, kill a spawn, move to the next, around the mountain
about 10 times, then the spawns would change for a while. You can work that
alone, or w/ a fighter..
Mage Ghoti
Peter Duniho
> low power or high power on that sword? Slashing or piercing? Slashing.
> Ok, slashing vuln, and watch as they poke away. I thought you said..
> Sorry, had to use a faster setting to catch up to them. Ok, so piercing
> vuln, and watch as they swing wide, ignoring me.
>
>
> We weren't really sure where to hunt. Being a newbie mage is really
> tough. Makes me just want to learn where to wall drain, and just do that
> to get out of the newbie levels.
IMHO...
Being a newbie mage is tough for the same reasons that being a newbie melee
is tough. The newbie is still learning how to play.
My sword fighter still had LOTS to learn when he got to Level 20, but he at
least had an education. He's still getting the occasional schooling today,
even at L41. :)
A mage is, of course, even more complicated to play, but the basic theme is
still there. The whole point of having the newbie levels (well, okay, not
the *whole* point :) ) is so you can practice.
Furthermore...
A melee and a mage trying to team up do need to learn how to act as a team.
They cannot behave as though each one's actions doesn't affect the other.
The team needs to set some ground rules before engaging monsters. For
example:
* Choosing piercing/slashing vuln should depend on the general
vulnerability of the monster. If the meleer needs to switch to piercing
against a slashing-vulnerable monster just to hit it, so be it. The mage
should still not feel guilty about having picked the proper Vuln spell
(though, obviously, if there is mana and time to spare, adding the alternate
vuln is always a fine thing to do).
* A mage being chased by a monster (which is, I assume, the reason the
meleer is having trouble keeping up with the monster) should not run in a
straight line. He should instead run circles around the melee. Even with a
slashing attack (albeit the fastest slashing attack), the meleer should be
able to easily hit the monster. Even better if the mage would just stand
still and trust his tank.
And so on...
Teamwork DOES require a fair amount of forethought, planning, and
experience. But it can be MUCH more rewarding, both in terms of pure
enjoyment and in terms of what a team can accomplish.
Pete
Leska
Mages need to fight a big stuff, because they have a lot of downtime.
Meleers (and archers to some extent) can kill virtually non-stop and level
quickly.
Mages cant. So, select the appropriate (BIG) target (Hunter Shreths, Golems,
Luggies), fight them 1-on-1, use drain/harm or vuln/drain/blast.
Be prepared to fight. Cast Armor, Impenetrability, appropriate Protections
and Banes (Like Piercing for Matties or Bludg. for Shreths)
Make sure you have full mana/stamina/health when you go.
Use DrainStamina/Stam2mana to fill mana tank, Stam2health when in trouble.
Don't hesitate to cast Armor and Impenetrability while traveling.
Especially, if you are wearing a Robe :-)
You will be ok. :-)
/tell me in game if you need help or something :-)
Good luck,
--
Leska, Life/Creature Archmage (36)
Kozlik, Bow/Creature Archer (27)
of Solclaim
"nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:eLUg6VgtAHA.1344@tkmsftngp04...
Mr. "S"
"disconnected" <chaosc...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.152942ba1...@news.nycap.rr.com...
nib
<klbu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2g7vbtkddmtfnfs4t...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:57:41 -0500, "nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Each day I get closer to deleting my mage. Its only some sick sense of
pride
> >that has kept me from doing it thus far. Another slew of deaths yesterday
> >has me doubting whether I have what it takes to play a mage. I'm level 11
> >and struggling. List of things that killed me yesterday (in the span of
> >about 1.5 hours):
> >
> >Great Mattie
> >Pack of drudge prowlers
> >Pack of Carrion Shreths
> >Ice Golem (with a random spell from a limestone)
> >Ice Golem (by himself)
> >Ash Gromnie (1 hit as I was running by)
> >
> >This sucks.
>
> playing a mage, you gotta remember that you're not going to evade
> anything that it's worth your bother (XP wise) to fight.
I think this might be my problem. Since I'm used to melee I have trouble
remembering not to get hit. When I see something running towards me I always
think I can absorbe one or two hits and kill it before I die. Problem is a)
there are usually more than 1 critter and b) I'm wearing a robe, usually
without any spells to speak of so I take massive amounts of damage and die
often.
> Don't even
> move without having your highest Armor spell running. Before every
> combat, fire up the appropriate bane and Imp (on your armor, until you
> can cast V's) and the Life Protection spell.
I don't have enough mana to do this. I could easily learn my level 3's but
it'd drain my mana too quick. I'm casting level II's now and run out after a
couple of battles. I cast s2m but it that usually only gets me to 60-70
points of mana.
> I'd consider a level 11
> mage to be "lunch" to a Greater Matty.
While I admit I did start the fight, I did try and run early. Poblem was he
freaking chased me forever and hit me in the back twice and I died. I'm
remembering how bad some ciritters will chase you (banderlings, dillos,
matties)
Get the Explorer wands for
> level II mastery and Mana Conversion II.
I'll do that.
>
> Fight the stuff you're designed for. Smaller Gromnies... small groups
> of anything, really.
I know, but its getting boring. Drudges and carrion/gnawler shreths are
boring as hell, banderlings are always in packs so it takes a fair amount of
time to lure them out, without much XP to show for it.
> Don't fight "mage killers" like Armoredillos,
> sharks, and bigger shreths. Give up on Shadows and Fragments for many
> levels. (I was amazed that my Archer took out a Shadow Child at level
> 9. I was *much* higher before I felt that it was worth the bother
> with my mage.)
I still try and land a spell on a broken fragment here and there. Never have
yet. I think I was level 15 or so for my sword guy before I could take a
fragment so I'm not too worried yet.
>
> Go to Lin or Qalabar, LS, and use "hit and run" tactics. Shoot the
> stuff from full radar range, so you have time to turn tail and flee.
> There's plenty of stuff big enough to help you fly up levels.
That's where I am (Q'alabar), problem is, I always migrate towards the
mountains which is too tough. The xp is hard to resist though. Nib mad over
30K just clearing an area so my mage could recover 2 corpses.
What it boils down to for me is I'm tired of banderlings, I'm tired of
drudges and I'm tired of shreths. But, I can't kill much more than that.
Especially with my current 20% vitae. We'll see. I'll give it another week
or so and see how it goes.
--
nib, non-spell casting swordsman
n...@Springmail.com
>
> -Asha'man
> (Morningthaw)
Legiondel IV
> What it boils down to for me is I'm tired of banderlings, I'm tired of
> drudges and I'm tired of shreths. But, I can't kill much more than that.
>
have extremely low magic defense and are pretty good xp for level 11 -
again, you just can't let them hit you.
I'm probably not the best low-level mage example since I was in the
Direlands by level 14 (was at Eastham until then), but I would advise you
not to try the mountains again until level 15 or so. That was about the time
I was able to have a decent chance of using hit-and-run tactics on
mattekars, and surviving.
Another possibility is undead. The North Glenden Prison is pretty
unpopulated by humans (on Frostfell, at least) these days, and you can make
*mad* experience from the zombies on the lower level. I started my new
characters last week, and took my new UA character there at level 9 last
night. I make about a level an hour there. The advantage you have over my
melee character is that you'll probably resist the zombies a lot more than I
do. Pump your magic defense up a little and try it - I got mine up to around
35 last night and I resist enough of the war spells already to make magic
defense worth spending xp on. Undead and Zombies are also not very big on
melee damage (although you might want to do a small bit of buffing anyway).
--
Legiondel IV, Archer of Frostfell
Epsilon the Believer/Believer
If anything don't delete him for he'd make a great ID mule. But besides
that, I think your tactics are either flawed or you are fighting too
hard/above your level. The life of a mage is a hard one. I get burned out
from it. My "main" has always been a melee for this reason. I seem to last
longer at periods with my melee than I can with my mage. I have gone about
a month now without playing Epsilon in a real way. But delete him? Never.
However, I have told you this before but to say it again, you want, the
highest vuln you can cast out, the most dependable war spell, and portal
recall out (when high enough).
ALSO: Stam to health is EXTREMELY important to the life of a mage. If you
are not using a 2, 3 level of this spell you are fooling yourself about your
effectiveness. You would last much longer with this spell. It gives you so
much more health than a low level healself spell AND even when you can cast
the higher level healself spells, stam to health is better because you can
use a lower level, which uses less mana, cast quicker, with more return.
Another thing. If "packs" of creatures are giving you fits (like you can
take two and the last gets ya) then I suggest you do the 'vun'em, run,
return' method. This is done in order that the "pride protection" is broken
between that spawn. A weakend/vuln'ed creature is no longer defended by
it's pride=other members of its group. That portion of the pride stands
their ground while the weakened one will come for you. At the killing blow
of that creature, the pride may come to attack you, but this is a separate
issue and STILL does not have 3 creatures on top of you.
A mage does die more. However, having many deaths means you are trying
things too big for you or you are not setup for battle correctly. A robe
mage shouldn't be used with level 2(and less) item. About level 3 is when
the time/defensive power of item is acceptable. Until then use low level
hide armor. When older (level six item/life) you may return to mat hide
coat/leather pants for elemental reasons.
Hope this helps and for the love of God keep your mage he can be a change of
pace when you want it, in the very least.
--
Believer
-Spec'ed: UA, Life Magic, Arcane Lore. Trained: Melee D, Healing,
Mana C, Item Magic, and Creature Magic
Epsilon the Believer
-Four School Melee D Kinda-Uber Tank Mage
Alexander the Believer
Not-So-Uber Tank Hybrid Unarmed/Bow with
Item/Creature/Healing/Arcane/Mana C/Lockpick/Fletching/Deception
"Before I became a sniper, I had to take tests to make sure I wasn't the
type of person to get on top of buildings and shoot people."
"nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:eLUg6VgtAHA.1344@tkmsftngp04...
Jeff
and archer guy though.
"nib" <n...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:eLUg6VgtAHA.1344@tkmsftngp04...
nib
"Epsilon the Believer/Believer" <McGyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O2KeTBmtAHA.2072@tkmsftngp03...
> Hail,
>
> If anything don't delete him for he'd make a great ID mule. But besides
> that, I think your tactics are either flawed or you are fighting too
> hard/above your level. The life of a mage is a hard one. I get burned
out
> from it. My "main" has always been a melee for this reason. I seem to
last
> longer at periods with my melee than I can with my mage. I have gone
about
> a month now without playing Epsilon in a real way. But delete him?
Never.
Well, unless it was in a fit of rage I wouldn't actually delete him, just
not play him anymore :)
>
> However, I have told you this before but to say it again, you want, the
> highest vuln you can cast out, the most dependable war spell, and portal
> recall out (when high enough).
Maybe I need to learn the level II vulns, then drop to level II wars. That
way if the vuln fizzles its not that big of a deal. A fizzled war spell can
mean death.
>
> ALSO: Stam to health is EXTREMELY important to the life of a mage. If
you
> are not using a 2, 3 level of this spell you are fooling yourself about
your
> effectiveness. You would last much longer with this spell. It gives you
so
> much more health than a low level healself spell AND even when you can
cast
> the higher level healself spells, stam to health is better because you can
> use a lower level, which uses less mana, cast quicker, with more return.
But I run out of stam so quick. Basically I can only cast it once then I
have to rest because I don't get enough out of the remaining stamina to do
any good. Is this normal? I assume this problem will go away when I get more
stamina?
>
> Another thing. If "packs" of creatures are giving you fits (like you can
> take two and the last gets ya) then I suggest you do the 'vun'em, run,
> return' method. This is done in order that the "pride protection" is
broken
> between that spawn. A weakend/vuln'ed creature is no longer defended by
> it's pride=other members of its group. That portion of the pride stands
> their ground while the weakened one will come for you. At the killing
blow
> of that creature, the pride may come to attack you, but this is a separate
> issue and STILL does not have 3 creatures on top of you.
Normally I do just draw one out. Sometimes I get a little anxious and think
I can kill them all without drawing them out, that's when I usually die :)
Or, sometimes I think I can handle the pack (like a pack of drugdes) just to
find out I can't :(
>
> A mage does die more. However, having many deaths means you are trying
> things too big for you or you are not setup for battle correctly. A robe
> mage shouldn't be used with level 2(and less) item. About level 3 is when
> the time/defensive power of item is acceptable. Until then use low level
> hide armor. When older (level six item/life) you may return to mat hide
> coat/leather pants for elemental reasons.
I just wouldn't feel like a mage without a robe :)
Ghoti
> But I run out of stam so quick. Basically I can only cast it once then I
> have to rest because I don't get enough out of the remaining stamina to do
> any good. Is this normal? I assume this problem will go away when I get
more
> stamina?
>
The cost / returns get better after you get more than 133 stam. (There was
a web site I found once but don't remember that explained the whole thing
and when to use what level S2M.)
I have 205 base Stam and 298 base mana, I use level 4 S2M then drop to a 3
for the second recharge.
But I am @ level 42 now. ;-)
going to power some this week, my patron is 50 and wants me to back him up
on A-Isle. hehe.. I think I am going to stay VERY near the drop point..
unless our monarchy wants to do the entire quest so we can get our recall
scrolls
Mage Ghoti
nib
"Ghoti" <us...@some.com> wrote in message
news:OVjmT5stAHA.2156@tkmsftngp05...
> <snip>
>
> > But I run out of stam so quick. Basically I can only cast it once then I
> > have to rest because I don't get enough out of the remaining stamina to
do
> > any good. Is this normal? I assume this problem will go away when I get
> more
> > stamina?
> >
>
> The cost / returns get better after you get more than 133 stam. (There
was
> a web site I found once but don't remember that explained the whole thing
> and when to use what level S2M.)
Cool. I'm working on getting my stam up but there are so many more skills to
work on with a mage over a melee it seems like I never have enough xp.
--
nib, non-spell casting swordsman
n...@Springmail.com
>
Senjin
Ghoti wrote in message ...
>The cost / returns get better after you get more than 133 stam. (There was
>a web site I found once but don't remember that explained the whole thing
>and when to use what level S2M.)
It follows from the equation: (0.5 * 0.75 * x) -10 = (0.5 * 0.90 * x) -
20
the left side is how much mana you get from Stam to Mana I, the right side
from the Level II spell
x = current stamina
0.5 = spell uses half of current stamina
0.75, 0.90 = percentage of stamina converted to mana
10, 20 = mana cost to cast the spell
the equation solves to x = 133.3, so at 133 current stamina, the mana yield
from Level I and II Stamina to Mana is the same
The above equation does not take into account the increased component burn
of higher level spells, increased fizzle rate, and increased time of
casting, all of which indicating that one should wait a bit longer than 133
stamina before moving to the Level II version (unless these issues don't
matter to you).
More importantly, it does not take into account mana conversion. The effect
of mana conversion is less definable: mana is more likely to be reduced for
a lower level spell, but since a higher level spell costs more mana, it also
has the potential for a higher mana reduction (20 mana reduced to 1 as
opposed to 10 mana reduced to 1).
I have no idea offhand (never thought to check it) what effect spell economy
has, if any, on the Stamina to Mana spell.
Nonetheless, the above equation is a good benchmark when determining when to
move to the next level Stamina to Mana spell. If you don't like fooling
with the numbers as much as I do, plug the following equation into a
spreadsheet (the above equation solved for "x"):
2 * (a - b) / (c -d)
a = mana cost of current level Stamina to Mana spell
b = mana cost of next level Stamina to Mana spell
c = % of drained stamina converted to mana when using current level spell
(from spell description)
d = % of drained stamina converted to mana when using next level spell
Substitute numbers in for a,b,c, and d and you can figure out at what amount
of stamina you should change to the next Stamina to Mana spell for any given
level.
Damn, that's my longest post ever; shows what one will do to avoid studying
C++ *grin*
Vinod al-Ahmad
> Cool. I'm working on getting my stam up but there are so many more skills to
> work on with a mage over a melee it seems like I never have enough xp.
Don't forget the Drain Stam spell. For Bandies (even Young Bandies), it
can just about fill your stam bar up by draining them once. These guys
are a virtual stam ocean. Also, Shreths seem to have a lot of stam to
throw around....
--
Vinod al-Ahmad
Morningthaw
Ghoti
worked for me.. There are finer points to consider also (ManaC for one)
But the website I saw, showed the best returns for the average mage (if
there is such a thing) If you can cast S2M 3, you shouldn't do it until you
have more than 133 Stam. beyind that the S2M1 is better. (Mostly for sped
and reliablilty..
Mage Ghoti
"Senjin" <unde...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:u5y99cttAHA.2232@tkmsftngp03...
nib
is only a 5 point difference between the two (get 5 more points of mana in a
level II). Kind of surprising, you'd expect the returns to be a little
better. Guess its another reason Mana C is so important.
--
nib, non-spell casting swordsman
n...@Springmail.com
"Senjin" <unde...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:u5y99cttAHA.2232@tkmsftngp03...
>