I have seen examples of batch files for getting Internet mail when using a
dialup connection.  A lot off them look like this:

Net Start MSEXCHIMC
Ping <outside host> [used to initiate the router]
Ping <outside host> [verify that the router connected]
dequeue
sleep  60 [Not all batch files have this]
Net Stop MSEXCHIMC

Why would one want to shut down the Internet Mail Services?  Is there an
advantage to do this?  Does it hurt to do this once every 15 minutes when I
check for mail?

The sleep statement, what is it?  A file that came with Win NT , a separate
utility? Where does one get it?

Steve Pester.
Please send all replies to: peste...@esvax.es.dupont.com

Quote of the Day:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If corn oil comes from corn, where does baby oil come from?

    Because if the dial-up connection isn't established through NT RAS,
Exchange assumes that it has a permanent connection to the Internet, and
will attempt to deliver any messages that it receives for the Internet as
soon as they hit the server.  Of course, since the connection isn't up, the
delivery attempt will fail, and the message will be bounced back to the
Exchange user.  By not having the IMS running, message delivery won't be
attempted until the service is started.

    SLEEP.EXE is a program available with the NT Server Resource Kit.  It's
purpose is to cause a batch file to pause for a given period of time before
continuing.  This is especially useful when a batch file calls a program
that starts its own thread, because the batch file will continue to execute
after the other thread is started, and the results of the program execution
may be needed later on in the batch file.  SLEEP.EXE gives the program a
chance to execute before continuing the batch file.

And it should probably be a lot longer than 60 seconds -- unless you
don't receive much mail or mail with any attachements.

This looks liike what you'd use if you had a dialup router instead of
a dial-up connection in Exchange. Exchange sees the router as a
permanent connection and will send mail whenever there's some to be
sent. Sometimes that's too often for you telephone budget.

I know that a newsgroup is a convenient place to ask silly questions,
but let me ask you one in return: did you even bother to LOOK? Or do
you expect everybody else to do things for you?

And you expect personalized service too? Sorry. Post it here, read it
here.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

Rich,

I am really sorry that I have offended you in anyway, that was never my
intent.  Since you brought it up I will explain the situation that I am in
and I hope that I could continue to get the help.

My church has been trying to get email services for the pastor and office
staff.  The sever and software was donated to the church.  They just needed
somebody to set it up.  I am quite computer savvy but as you and the others
in the newsgroups are quite aware, setting up a Win NT 4.0 server with
Exchange 5.0  connected to a dial-up router is quite a complicated task for
someone who has never done it before.  I have volunteered my time to the
church.  I am also sure that you are aware the to hire an MCSE support
engineer to do what I am doing could be quite expensive.  That money could
be used to further the endeavors of the church.

Yes, I do try to look at other resources before I come to the newsgroups for
help.  I check the Microsoft KB, scan the newsgroups with dejanews and use a
program called WebFerret to do a search on web pages before I ask a
question.  I routinely browse the newsgroups just to see what I can learn.
The amount of time that I spend in the newsgroups is nothing compared to the
time I spend on the web.  With the all these resources there are a lot of
pages of information to go through.  With me not even knowing what I should
be looking for.  This could take quite sometime and can be very frustrating.

So as long as somebody is willing to help me in the newsgroups and I am
having trouble finding the info any place else I will continue to ask.  I
had thought that the newsgroups were there for this purpose.  This is of
course why you are answering these messages isn't it?  You just want to
help?  You have been a great help and I have tried to thank you and the
other people in this group when they have helped.

I also try to give back were I can.  I try to post answers for the stuff I
have already learned.  I do not want to post to somebody that I am not sure
of the answer, because I do not want to lead them down the wrong path.

I can see how the above line would lead one to think I want all replies sent
to me directly and not to the newsgroups.  So I will change it.  I believe
that all messages should be posted to the groups so that others can learn
from the threads in the groups.

Thank You, Steve Pester.
Email Address: peste...@esvax.es.dupont.com

Quote of the Day:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When we try to separate anything out by itself, we find it hitched to
everything else in the universe.

Rich:

What is your problem?

You can pick on me anytime you want but why do you have to blast
everyone on this and other newsgroups.

Steve:

If I don't call you first, call me and we will help you out with any
problem you have. We have tech guys here that are truely above Rich's
level both as human beings and technical knowledge.
If ProxyMail can help you out I will supply a free 8 user license to
your church.
Don't let these geeks get to you.

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:03:08 -0400, "Steve Pester"

My problem with what? You? You KNOW what _that_ is. It's your constant
spamming of these newsgroups with your advertising.

Blast? Hmmm, lessee, there were several questions in the orignal
posting. The ones that asked for information regarding Exchange were
answered. The one asking a question about a common NT command was not.

Oh, nobody's "picking" on you, Rick. When you use a newsgroup to sell
a product under the guise of offering advice you leave yourself wide
open for others to point out your shortcomings, bad and misleading
advice, and your lack of knowledge.

If you act like an ass you certainly shouldn't be upset when someone
notices.

Rick, if the folks that provide support has as much knowledge about
SMTP you demonstrate then I'd definitely have send, and third,
thoughts about taking you up on that offer.

I suppose that if my objecting to being asked obvious questions that
it makes me a bad human being, well, then I guess I am. But I'm
surprised you didn't offer to give me an eight user license of your
product -- I'm sure that would provide an immediate cure for all my
ills and shortcomings. At least that's the way it seems to me when I
read your answers to questions.

Q: HELP! My IMS won't start!
A: Don't worry, OUR product can solve that!

Q: My NT domain synchronization causes my ISDN router to dial too
often!
A: OUR product can fix that!

If you have information about the questions that were asked then
please offer an answer. I've read this reply of yours a couple of
times and, no matter how carefully I look, I can't find even one trace
of technical information on Exchange. Have I overlooked it? Or is it
completely absent?

It's kind of you to offer that, but it doesn't really answer his
question, does it?

He also posted the question from an address that doesn't indicate he's
affiliated with any religious organization. In fact, he doesn't
mention a church anywhere in the message at all. I suppose, though, I
shouldn't be suprised -- you certainly don't seem to make a habit
reading  before you post a habit.

I'm almost tempted to change my .sig file to read "Never underestimate
the power of human stupidity." But I won't do that, Rick. I wouldn't
want you to think I was picking on you.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

I am sorry that my postings came to this.  It was never my intent to start a
small flame war.  I am just trying to get some help from people who may have
more experience at this than I do.

Newsgroups, in my opinion, are one of the greatest devices that a person can
use to get information.  What would take, a person just starting to learn a
program, hours to research could be answered, by a willing individual, in a
couple of minutes with a few quick keystrokes.  Please notice that I said
willing.  Nobody is ever forced to reply to any postings in the groups.
Some people would call this being lazy, they are entitled to their opinion.
My experience has taught me why repeat other people's mistakes, especially
when there are so many people willing to share what they have learned.

They may be obvious questions to you, but for someone who has never had to
do this before it can be quite overwhelming.  As far as being a bad human
being, I don't think so.  You have shown that you wanted to help.  I guess
to you though I started sounding like a child who keeps asking his mother
why?, why?  It's up to you whether you chose to answer my questions or not.
I'm glad you did.

We all have questions about something and it is nice to know that there are
people out there that are willing to sit down with us, to help find the
answers.

Yes it is true that I have not posted from the church's address.  I go to
the church after work to try to get a few more things up and running.  When
I have problems or questions I would write them down and bring them into
work.  I would post the questions that I have here so that if a further
exchange is needed to clarify anything, this could be done right away.  I
would then go ahead and try the answers that night.

If you are not sure about the validity of my church connections please do a
search on INTERNIC for "proclamation.org".

So far with the help of God, many willing people in the newsgroups and my
ISP, we now have, a registered domain name, internet access for the entire
network, email access for the church staff and along with future plans to
have missionaries be able to contact their families when they are away from
home and hopefully soon a web server.

I refuse to feel guilty for anything I am doing with good intentions.  I
will continue to look to the groups as I need them and hopefully I will be
able to give back as much as I took.

Thank You, Steve Pester.
Email Address: peste...@esvax.es.dupont.com

Quote of the Day:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more
specific."
- Lily Tomlin

Steve,

This really has nothing to do with you or your questions.  The issue
of Rick Thompson's advertising has been going on for at least 6 months
now.  Nothing said is a shot at you, just fallout from a very long
arguement which has been going on here.

Rich Matheisen is one of the most prolific and knowledgeable posters
on the group.  You can't go too far wrong following his advise.
Rick's solution may work for you but be very clear on the
limitations/problems of any POP3 to Exchange solution.  They are not
RFC compliant and can screw up addressing (i.e. BCC headers, group
postings, etc).

See http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_smtp.htm for a detailed
description of the technical issues

Elton Tucker MCSE ASE
tuck...@cadvison.com.nospam

<35d9edf1.47722...@msnews.microsoft.com>...

Very clearly Rich "took a shot" at Steve.  It was not a required
response - he simply did not have to say anything.    How you can say
otherwise is ridiculous.  BUT - we all know that M$ Rich is the
self-appointed moderator of this group

M$ Rich seems to be a knowledgable fellow - but is very opinionated -
and simply and religously - focused on Microsoft Exchange.  I would
advise anyone to take what he says (regarding competitive products)
with a grain of salt.  He is motivated to criticize non M$ products.
He will misquote, ignore responses, and twist things to fit his
arguement.

SetNet Rick answers questions with information about a product which
will solve the poster's problem.  Yes - his goal is to sell, and he
answers posters which could benefit from SetNet products .  And it
works.  Numerous people buy ProxyMail to solve the major problems they
have in finding an ETRN friendly ISP, complicated M$Exchange setups,
and M$ bugs.   He offers a solution to specific problems.  I have
NEVER seen a poster (other than the three musketeers) complain about
his postings.  In fact, many have thanked him for his assistance.

Appx three people on this public newsgroup can't stand the fact that
ProxyMail simply works, solves the problem and is easy to use with ANY
ISP.  They constantly LIE and MISLEAD people into thinking that
messages will be lost when we have proven repeatedly that such is not
the case.  If fact, we warn people of the dangers in using simple
"Group Mailboxes".

Problem is - Rick is only one person, and he does an admirable job of
maintaining his cool, selling ProxyMail where it fits, and helping out
users.  I'm not cool - I get tired of watching these zealots blindly
attack for no reason.  Sometimes I just want to jump in and vent
steam....

OK 3 Musketeers - back to the basics:

VERY FEW ISPs SUPPORT ETRN -  In the small and backward city of Miami
there is only one (to my knowledge), and he charges EXTRA $$$ for
it!!!!!

DEDICATED LINES/STATIC IPs ARE EXPENSIVE - That is the only way
M$Exchange will work simply and reliably

M$EXCHANGE IS NOT THE ONLY PRODUCT IN THE WORLD - ProxyMail is
installed and working in over 1,000 sites around the world, thank you.

CC AND BCC WILL NOT BE LOST IF POP ACCOUNTS ARE MAINTAINED FOR THOSE
USERS. - SetNet provides them along with the software as a free
service when you buy our software.

MOBILE USERS CANNOT CHECK MAIL RESIDING ON A M$EXCHANGE SERVER THAT
CONNECTS TO THE INTERNET THRU A DIAL-UP LINE. - ProxyMail provides for
this very nicely thank you - check it out http://www.setnet.com

Mark

========================================================
SetNet Corporation - Email for Business Networks
http://www.setnet.com  --  sa...@setnet.com
888 9-SETNET  --  305 265-1114
========================================================

This has been responded to over email.

Elton Tucker MCSE ASE
tuck...@cadvison.com.nospam

and has been replied to.....

But where is Rich, Amiri, and the "man without an Identity"??????
Can't wait for those flames!  Alas - I go on vacation tomorrow, so we
will not be able to waste more bandwidth.....

Remember - buy MSExchange, it's a great product with great features.
But when you hit a brickwall trying to download Email from an ISP that
does not support ETRN, or you can't afford a dedicated connection,
look around - you'll find a bunch of neat solutions that simply work -
even though they do not follow the RFCs.  And some of them won't even
lose any mail - regardless of the cc and bcc issues.

========================================================
SetNet Corporation - Email for Business Networks
http://www.setnet.com  --  sa...@setnet.com
888 9-SETNET  --  305 265-1114
========================================================

Nobody's blaming you for anything. Rick's just trying to regain "face"
and drum up sympathy and business for his niche product.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

Well, glad to see you back -- right on queue, too! Rick gets a pasting
and there YOU are, going to bat for him -- again! One day I expect
that Rick will learn to handle his own spats with out going home to
get his "Daddy" to come to the schoolyard whenever he gets his nose
bloodied.

We've had this dicussion before, Mark. I don't work for Microsoft, so
lose the "M$" crap.

But you're wrong about my not having anything to say. I *did* say what
I had to say. And not only was it *ME* that said it, I *didn't* direct
the remark to either you OR your salesman, Rick.

And if I *was* the moderator (which I most definitely am NOT) I
probably WOULD cancel some of your advertisements. But I don't have
that ability. All I can do is point out where your company is
completely ignoring the question and simply posting an advertisement.

Yes, I am. Thanks for noticing. Just a Rick seems to be focused on
YOUR product.

I'd take Rick's advice with more than that, Mark.

Misquote? I don't think so.

Ignore responses? Sometimes. Especially when it seems the thread is at
an end. I usually hang up the phone when I'm done with a conversation,
too.

When Rick's replies are in line with the question being asked I don't
bother replying to them -- even if they DO simply advertise your
product.

He answers almost ALL question with an advertisement. Only very
occasionally does he bother to offer any techincal advice. And when he
does he is very often wrong.

But, then again, you don't see those people back in the newsgroups
again. And, as I have said, I don't object to every posting made by
your company -- only the ones where the advice is obviously wrong or
misleading. If that means I object to more than you think I should,
well, as you say -- it's a newsgroup, you have the ability (as does
everyone) to ignore me if you think I'm wrong. But it also means you
get to take your lumps when you're wrong. You choose to advertise
here, nobody forces you to.

I don't like the fact that products like yours are necessary at all.
And I don't think it _solves_ a problem, I think it treats the
symptom. The problem is BBS operators posing as ISP's.

I haven't brought that subject up since you guys started clarifying
how your product works. Rick occasionally slips up and says it will
work, but I haven't dumped on him for that since last spring.

But, Mark, you haven't proven it. You AVOID the problem by having the
messages delivered to individual mailbaoxes. The two are not the same.

Au contraire! He sells your product in the most inappropriate places!
And it's for THIS he's earned his reputation.

Too bad it sounds so little like venting and so much like a defense.

Well, if we're going to be using titles then I'd like to propose one
for you and Rick: "The Bell brothers - Ding and Dong". It's civil
enough.

I'm in no position to argue how many ISP's in Miami do anything. There
are at least a dozen in eastern Massachusetts, though.

And, if I'm not mistaken, your product license costs money, too.

It's the only way an ISP using static address resolution can make it
work. Exchange and, for that matter, any SMTP host can use a dynamic
IP address if the name resolution is capable of handling it. So let's
stop THAT lie right here.

And Unix is running in many more. So's Linux. But SMTP isn't the only
e-mail product in the world, either. And your product isn't very
scalable, is it?

Isn't this true of ANY e-mail system? Why shout a well known fact? If
I don't plug the phone into the wall you won't be able to make it ring
-- that's pretty much the same thing. I don't think you'll get much in
the way of argument on this point from any sane person.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

Not me! I figure folks deserve some entertainment.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

I know, I know...
Sometimes I think I'm going soft in my old age... :-)

Elton Tucker MCSE ASE
tuck...@cadvison.com.nospam

<35db435a.5518...@msnews.microsoft.com>...

I'm here. You should have ample time to read my reply before leaving
on vacation.

I guess you have a different definition of "flame" than I do, Mark.
But you PC types usually do.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com

When looking at the mailbox resources for my Internet Mail Service, it
is at about 30 meg and it is growing.  There is no mail in my postmaster
account.  Where do I look to see why it is growing?

It's not really growing. It's a minor bug in the UI and it's fixed in
SP1.

For more information, try this MS KB article:
Q183057 "XADM: Private Information Store Has High Disk Size Item
Numbers"

----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Matheisen                           Wang Laboratories
Microsoft Certified System Engineer         Tewksbury, MA USA
mailto:richard.mathei...@wang.com           http://www.wang.com