GG posting problem (reported by Ken Johnson)
Joe User
on MSnews server"....
"Ken Johnson" <kencj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Joe User, I might just leave it in the too-hard-basket.
Yes, it is.
Especially since your use of the phrase "no longer see" below suggests that
the deletion in GG is deferred, and since we cannot confirm successful
communication of the message to GG in the first place unless and until we
see it in MSNews, which is delayed. (And we don't know that we will always
see it in MSNews even if it is deleted in GG. That is, we don't know how
consistent that behavior is.)
All of that means: it will take many minutes to determine the success or
failure of each test, with a great deal of unpredictability. Very
time-consuming. Very error-prone; lots of opportunity for
misinterpretation.
> BTW I see your response to my message but I no
> longer see my message.
Well, now this is piquing my interest.
I start with the theory (wild-ass guess, really) that some part of your
original response triggers a filter (or scrubber) on the GG server. For
that reason, I have removed that text from this response.
Ironically, I was going to mention that in my first response to you, but I
forget. So I foolishly retained the offending(?) text in my response as
well.
Although foolhardy of me, it turned out to give us another piece of the
puzzle. The fact that my postings survive in GG, but yours do not, suggests
to me (again, a wild-ass guess) that the filter acts on the front-end, i.e.
messages posted through the GG web interface, but not on the back-end, i.e.
messages received using the NNTP protocol, which is how NG messages
propagate server-to-server.
Perhaps not useful in identifying the cause of the trigger. But it might be
useful to you in the future: if you encounter this problem (lost messages
in the GG server) in the future, you might try an alternative means of
posting the message. The MS Discussion Groups
(http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups) should be just as
accessible to you as GG. But if you can access the MSNews server, that is
usually more reliable. Use Outlook Express, Windows Mail, or perhaps
Outlook, among others.
Finally, you might have inadvertently narrowed down the part of the content
of your original response that is triggering the filter (if indeed that is
what happens; remember: these are all wild-ass guesses for now). There are
parts of the excerpt of the original response included in your message in
the "Why messages fail" thread that are different from your original
responses in the GG thread. So I would start by stripping out the uncommon
lines.
Of course, any experimentation should be done in a test NG, e.g.
m.p.test.here. But if you cannot reproduce the problem there, it might
because the (GG) policies are different for the two NGs. Sigh.
Many variables to work with before I sleep :-). I am losing interest
already ;-).
----- original message -----
"Ken Johnson" <kencj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:98f68f45-eefc-4232...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 2, 10:04 pm, "Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote:
> "Ken Johnson" <kencjohn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I use Google Groups and tried 5 times to post a solution here...
> >http://groups.google.com.au/group/microsoft.public.excel.misc/browse_...
> > The following solution (no "x y z"s w/o spaces) just kept on
> > disappearing after varying times...
>
> I am not sure what you are trying to say. Forgive me if I misunderstand.
> And if I did, please clarify the purpose of your comment.
>
> If you are trying to saying that you do not see your (five) responses in
> Google Groups, I confirm: I don't see them either using the GG web
> interface.
>
> But this thread is about problems with lost messages on the MSNews server,
> not the Google Groups server.
>
> I have no idea why you might not see your messages using GG, given that
> you
> submitted them using GG. That would be fodder for another thread ;-).
>
> It does not surprise me that it is not the same "x y z" problem that is
> plaguing the MSNews server. And even w.r.t the MSNews server, there might
> be other problems that cause lost messages.
>
> FYI, I do see five responses of yours to that thread on the MSNews server.
> They are:
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:43:09 -0800 (PST)
> Message-ID:
> <5eee5cae-d373-42b6-a119-7e99d2823...@w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:28:46 -0800 (PST)
> Message-ID:
> <9fbc7135-84fe-4fc8-8b89-457c67020...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
>
> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 15:03:05 -0800 (PST)
> Message-ID:
> <4d23567f-0f35-43b0-9384-806e13c62...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:03:14 -0800 (PST)
> Message-ID:
> <8b629483-774f-43d6-88e5-b692f914b...@n38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:40:22 -0800 (PST)
> Message-ID:
> <91f61d0e-d1cd-46d6-83d3-34f69e924...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
>
> (MSNews m.p.e.misc article numbers 888882, 888886, 888912, 889048 and
> 889180
> respectively.)
>
> If you want to investigate this further, you might try starting with a GG
> search using the those messages IDs.
>
> And you might try posting the body of those messages in test messages
> posted
> to m.p.test.here, trying isolate the content, if any, that is causing
> problems. If you need a exact copy of the
> GG messages that you posted, I can get them from the MSNews server and
> send
> them to you in email.
>
> BTW, since they do appear on the MSNews server, it does mean that they
> were
> transmitted successfully to the GG server; no external networking problem.
> What happened after that within the GG intranet is anyone's guess at this
> point.
>
> Good luck!
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Ken Johnson" <kencjohn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a42ee13e-1a4c-472e...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I use Google Groups and tried 5 times to post a solution here...
> >http://groups.google.com.au/group/microsoft.public.excel.misc/browse_...
> > The following solution (no "x y z"s w/o spaces) just kept on
> > disappearing after varying times...
>
[[...removed excerpt from original message...]]
>
> > Ken Johnson
>
> > Ken Johnson
Thanks Joe User, I might just leave it in the too-hard-basket.
BTW I see your response to my message but I no longer see my message.
Ken Johnson
Joe User
> if you encounter this problem (lost messages in the GG server) in the
> future, you might try
> an alternative means of posting the message.
Hmm, that might not work after all.
When I tried this, the message that got deleted in GG is the message that I
posted through the MSNews. So far, the GG message has survived.
I wonder if the sequence is the key.
Using GG, I had posted an initial message, a reply with the suspected
offending text, and a benign reply ("marker"). Then using MSNews, I posted
a reply with the suspected offending text.
At some point in time, all 4 the messages were visible in GG. Some time
later (perhaps 10-15 min), the MSNews message was no longer visible in GG
when I refreshed the Topic List web page.
Perhaps GG is simply deleting the last message in the thread(!) -- or more
likely, the last message if it contains the suspected offending text,
regardless of the source (GG, MSNews, etc).
----- original message -----
"Joe User" <joeu2004> wrote in message
news:%23Kq%23HIKjK...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...