Passed 72-290
Parddiscussio...@discussions.microsoft.com
and N+, i heard there are exemptions i can get on MCSA/MCSE what's the best
way forward
Paul Jones
<Parddiscussio...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>what's the best way forward
Straight ahead.
Parddiscussio...@discussions.microsoft.com
what i mean is what exemptions can i get and how do i apply for them.
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
<Parddiscussio...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B158AAEE-9446-4E83...@microsoft.com...
>
> what i mean is what exemptions can i get and how do i apply for them.
There are no exemptions.
Certain CompTIA certifications can be used to fulfill the requirements of
the Elective Exam for the MCSA/MCSE certifications.
To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you need to
ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:
https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/tools/trans.aspx
--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)
My Blog: http://onsitechsolutions.spaces.live.com
Microsoft WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you need to
>ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:
>https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/tools/trans.aspx
No, he can only use them for an MCSA.
He has not got Security+, just A+ and N+ which can only be used towards
and MCSA. The Security+ is needed for MCSE (or MCSA:Security).
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
news:6qjic55kup190ocf0...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 19:14:26 -0500, "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]"
> <lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>
>>To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you need
>>to
>>ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:
>>https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/tools/trans.aspx
>
> No, he can only use them for an MCSA.
> He has not got Security+, just A+ and N+ which can only be used towards
> and MCSA.
Hmm.. then somebody probably needs to tell Microsoft Learning to remove the
entry from the MSCE requirements page:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab2
Since the requirements page does not explicitly list the certifications
which are currently accepted, I presume you have an alternate published
location for which you can provide a reference link.
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>"Paul Jones" <ne...@news-only.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
>news:6qjic55kup190ocf0...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 19:14:26 -0500, "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]"
>> <lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>>
>>>To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you need
>>>to
>>>ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:
>>>https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/tools/trans.aspx
>>
>> No, he can only use them for an MCSA.
>> He has not got Security+, just A+ and N+ which can only be used towards
>> and MCSA.
>
>Hmm.. then somebody probably needs to tell Microsoft Learning to remove the
>entry from the MSCE requirements page:
>http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab2
>
>Since the requirements page does not explicitly list the certifications
>which are currently accepted, I presume you have an alternate published
>location for which you can provide a reference link.
Well when I search Microsoft.com for:
comptia mcse mcsa partners
I do find one link in Australia that has the original requirement pages.
I know they (Ozzies) are a bit backward (or is that upside down) but I
am sure MS is the same there as anywhere:
Here is one result (second on page):
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/learning/mcp/partners.mspx
Now this information did use to be able to find on the MS site but since
MS decided they don't like the MCSA and MCSE anymore it is now near
impossible to find.
Matrixx333
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:56:30 -0500, "Lawrence Garvin [MVP]"
>
>
>
> >"Paul Jones" <n...@news-only.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
Just to throw my two cents in, I was also provided the same
information that Paul Jones is providing in my New Horizons class. The
instructor stated that A+ and Net+ can be used to fill the elective
requirements of the MCSA portion, but they could not be "reused" to
apply to the MCSE. He stated that I would be required to take the Sec+
for the MCSE if I wanted to use it as an alternate elective.
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
news:12ca3996-5beb-45fb...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> Just to throw my two cents in, I was also provided the same
> information that Paul Jones is providing in my New Horizons class. The
> instructor stated that A+ and Net+ can be used to fill the elective
> requirements of the MCSA portion, but they could not be "reused" to
> apply to the MCSE. He stated that I would be required to take the Sec+
> for the MCSE if I wanted to use it as an alternate elective.
That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed as
electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused". In
fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
(Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-298).
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>"Matrixx333" <matri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:12ca3996-5beb-45fb...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Just to throw my two cents in, I was also provided the same
>> information that Paul Jones is providing in my New Horizons class. The
>> instructor stated that A+ and Net+ can be used to fill the elective
>> requirements of the MCSA portion, but they could not be "reused" to
>> apply to the MCSE. He stated that I would be required to take the Sec+
>> for the MCSE if I wanted to use it as an alternate elective.
>
>
>
>That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed as
>electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused". In
>fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
>(Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
>70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-298).
Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
as an elective for an MCSE.
This has always been the case.
The page that is on the Australian site is exactly the same one as used
to be on the main US site.
Do you think it is different just for an Australian MCSE? Of course not!
John R
"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <lawr...@news.postalias> wrote in message
news:7CB60145-F41E-4675...@microsoft.com...
>
> That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed
> as electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused".
> In fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
> (Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
> 70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-298).
>
The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not for
others like MCDST and CompTIA.
I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still was
not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement before I
got it.
John R
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
>>That doesn't seem to make sense. There are several exams that are listed
>>as
>>electives for both the MCSA and the MCSE, and they all can be "reused". In
>>fact, I believe that the only thing you have to do to "upgrade" an MCSA
>>(Win2003) to an MCSE (Win2003) is take the two extra core exams (70-293,
>>70-294), and one of the two design exams (70-297 or 70-298).
>
> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
> as an elective for an MCSE.
Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
that explicitly states this as fact.
> The page that is on the Australian site is exactly the same one as used
> to be on the main US site.
Australian sites don't mean squat in the U.S.
> Do you think it is different just for an Australian MCSE?
It could be!
Also, in case you hadn't noticed, there's a *LOT* of information that's
still posted on the "Australian" site that's long since been removed from
the U.S. site, including links for eval copies of Win2003; so, to be honest,
I'm a bit skeptical about anything currently posted on a Microsoft-Australia
site.
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
news:ecwXUk0R...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not
> for others like MCDST and CompTIA.
>
> I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still was
> not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement before
> I got it.
This is not a valid comparison, John. The MCDST is not eligible for use as
an MCSE elective under any circumstances, it can only be used for the MCSA;
and *that* is why you had to still satisfy the MCSE elective.
MCDST Listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcsa.aspx#tab2
MCDST Not Listed:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx#tab2
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>"Paul Jones" <ne...@news-only.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
>news:k5nnc55oi5mcv5kni...@4ax.com...
>> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
>> as an elective for an MCSE.
>
>Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
>that explicitly states this as fact.
You are the one giving out bad and completely wrong information so YOU
point the OP to a link that states he CAN use them. Not just one that
states CompTIA exams like you have done.
How is he going to feel if he thinks he has completed his MCSE only to
be knocked back. Think before giving out advice without doing any
research into it!
As already mentioned, MS decided to take down the information that they
had posted. Which was *identical* to the Australian site.
I am sure the Australians will be really please that you hold them in
such high regard!
It is discussed here:
http://www.proprofs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22226
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsa&tid=617f9f16-74f3-4df4-8b85-b0792b9cfeba&cat=en_US_49d2b4a6-6973-457d-87a7-0e67a7b4f2e6&lang=en&cr=US&sloc=&p=1
http://www.focusprojects.co.uk/itsm/training-courses/certificate-family/5/
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/57fcee97-cd94-49e1-be13-26dd21ee9f2e
CompTIA state "Microsoft includes CompTIA Network+ in their Microsoft
Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA) program".
http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/network.aspx
No mention of MCSE. You would think they would shout about that,
wouldn't you (well any intelligent person would).
How you got MVP status is beyond me!
MV...@microsoft.com
Complaint email sent.
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
>>> Makes sense or not. You CANNOT use any CompTIA credential but Security+
>>> as an elective for an MCSE.
>>
>>Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
>>that explicitly states this as fact.
>
> You are the one giving out bad and completely wrong information so YOU
> point the OP to a link that states he CAN use them. Not just one that
> states CompTIA exams like you have done.
Oh... I see... That's what this is evolving into.
Look, Paul. I pointed the O.P. (who has been absent from this conversation
for the past 5 days) to the official source for information published by
Microsoft. If there's more detail required by the O.P. beyond what's on that
website, then I guess he's going to have to pick up the telephone and ask
somebody directly.
I don't have, and never claimed to have, any authoritative information as to
exactly which CompTIA exams are eligible, or are not. I have challenged you,
twice, to offer links to support your statements that only certain exams are
eligible, and more recently, that they cannot be "reused" for the MCSE
(which is contrary to every other exam on the electives list), and the best
you've been able to come up with is a three-year old page which only exists
on the Microsoft-Australia site (which I've already noted has a LOT of
outdated information), and exists nowhere on the Microsoft Corporate site.
And now you attack me for "giving out bad and completely wrong information".
I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as concerns
the use of CompTIA+ exams.
I'll also note that you were the person who originally responded to the O.P.
with the smart-aleck and totally useless answer of "Straight ahead". I,
ultimately, answered the O.P.s question by informing him he needed to get
his CompTIA credentials recorded on his transcript in order to get credit
for those exams against his MCSA/MCSE. The O.P. was never interested in a
conversation about *which* exams were, or were not, required. You jumped
into the thread, with the statement about which exams could be used for
which cert -- which was NOT the O.P.s question. And now, having started the
unnecessary argument, you get ugly and personal.
> How is he going to feel if he thinks he has completed his MCSE only to
> be knocked back.
This is not *my* responsiblity, and, in fact, I'm the person making the
point here that one should NOT rely on unsubstantiated or out-of-date
information coming from a Third Party (including former classroom
instructors). I DO NOT KNOW what the specific requirements are, but I think
it's highly unusual that the exams cannot be "reused", or that there are ANY
MCSA electives that cannot be used as an MCSE elective.
> Think before giving out advice without doing any research into it!
I'm not giving advice; I'm providing facts based on published information
from authoritative sources.
The only information I've provided was to instruct the O.P. that he needed
to get his exams recorded on his transcript.
Beyond that, in this thread, it is you who are providing
advice/information -- and I'm merely challenging you to provide an
authoritative source for your information -- which you have not yet been
able to do.
But if you want advice! Here's mine:
Frankly, I'd recommend *against* using CompTIA exams as electives for the
MCSA/MCSE anyway! Consider the scenario where a candidate has taken all
required exams for the MCSA/MCSE except the elective. Why, pray tell (based
on your information) would a person then want to take TWO more exams to get
the MCSA and yet another THIRD exam to get the MCSE, when both
certifications (the MCSA being a de facto earned cert of all MCSEs
otherwise) can be achived with *ONE* Microsoft exam.
Furthermore, what's Not Good about this scenario, is that, strictly
speaking, based on the information being provided here (which I've already
stated seems illogical), it's possible for a person to earn an MCSE (using
the CompTIA Security+ exam) and NOT be an MCSA because they haven't met the
elective requirement of that certification -- and *that* is messed up!
Now, if you want to suggest that the MCSE requires the A+ =and= Security+
=and= one of the Network+/Server+, then I'll be a perfectly happy camper.
> As already mentioned, MS decided to take down the information that they
> had posted.
That ought to be the *FIRST* clue!!!
> I am sure the Australians will be really please that you hold them in
> such high regard!
Maybe if the Australians would update their site, I would.
> It is discussed here:
> http://www.proprofs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22226
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsa&tid=617f9f16-74f3-4df4-8b85-b0792b9cfeba&cat=en_US_49d2b4a6-6973-457d-87a7-0e67a7b4f2e6&lang=en&cr=US&sloc=&p=1
> http://www.focusprojects.co.uk/itsm/training-courses/certificate-family/5/
> http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/CertGeneral/thread/57fcee97-cd94-49e1-be13-26dd21ee9f2e
None of those are Microsoft authoritative references, and neither of the
forum threads posted have an answer from a Microsoft resource. They all rely
on the CompTIA website's interpretation -- which I think is flawed because
it appears to PRESUME that an MCSE candidate has already completed the MCSA
*and* used the CompTIA A+ and N+/S+ as the elective requirements.
> CompTIA state "Microsoft includes CompTIA Network+ in their Microsoft
> Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA) program".
> http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/network.aspx
> No mention of MCSE.
It's a product website for the Network+ exam, space is limited. I'm not
surprised at all.
> How you got MVP status is beyond me!
Insults are entirely inappropriate and unnecessary.
> MV...@microsoft.com
> Complaint email sent.
<sigh>
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>Oh... I see... That's what this is evolving into.
<major snippage>
I have no time to read all that!
>And now you attack me for "giving out bad and completely wrong information".
There has been no attack. Facts have been presented to you and you
dispute them and provide no source of information to back up your claim.
>I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
>authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as concerns
>the use of CompTIA+ exams.
No you gave the user bad information. Quote:
"To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you
need to ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:"
Note the word 'your'! So you were advising the OP he could use his
CompTIA A+ and N+ certs towards and MCSE.
This was further shown when I pointed out to you that he could not use
them for the MCSE when you replied:
"Hmm.. then somebody probably needs to tell Microsoft Learning to remove
the entry from the MSCE requirements page:"
I do not see any entry on the page using the link *You* provided that
states it could be used for an MCSE.
So you provide bad information and a bad link to back it up.
Then demand I do your research for you to prove to you what I and
probably the rest of the world know is correct.
Here's me thinking an MVP is supposed to be helpful.
Then you slate the Austrian Microsoft site too. So if "Australian sites
don't mean squat in the U.S" and you do not accept the information
provided is genuine and applies to the U.S, does that mean you still
believe you are right?
John R
"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <lawr...@news.postalias> wrote in message
> "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
> news:ecwXUk0R...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>> The "upgrade" statement is true for some electives like 70-228, but not
>> for others like MCDST and CompTIA.
>>
>> I used MCDST for my MCSA. After completing 293, 294, and 297, I still
>> was not awarded MCSE. I had to satisfy the "MCSE Elective" requirement
>> before I got it.
>
> This is not a valid comparison, John. The MCDST is not eligible for use as
> an MCSE elective under any circumstances, it can only be used for the
> MCSA; and *that* is why you had to still satisfy the MCSE elective.
>
I understand that.
I think my point was that CompTIA A+, N+ is the same thing, it is only
allowed to apply to MCSA.
CompTIA is listed on the MCSE page because Security+ is accepted for that.
One would reasonable assume that the requirement pages that you quote would
be more specific.
I'm just being nit-picky witch-ya :)
John R
Paul Jones
<jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote:
>I think my point was that CompTIA A+, N+ is the same thing, it is only
>allowed to apply to MCSA.
>CompTIA is listed on the MCSE page because Security+ is accepted for that.
>
>One would reasonable assume that the requirement pages that you quote would
>be more specific.
Indeed. It was previously shown but got changed when the new 2008 certs
came in.
John R
"Lawrence Garvin [MVP]" <lawr...@news.postalias> wrote in message
news:D51C6565-D25C-43E9...@microsoft.com...
>
> Okay.. so point me to a *Microsoft* published reference at microsoft.com
> that explicitly states this as fact.
>
Just to throw a little more fuel around, I believe the page he cited was...
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/learning/mcp/partners.mspx
What is the domain name on that link? :-)
John R
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
>>I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
>>authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as
>>concerns
>>the use of CompTIA+ exams.
>
> No you gave the user bad information. Quote:
> "To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you
> need to ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:"
>
> Note the word 'your'! So you were advising the OP he could use his
> CompTIA A+ and N+ certs towards and MCSE.
<sigh>.. speaking of no time to deal with penny-ante pedantic arguments . .
.
I'm outta here!
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
> I'm just being nit-picky witch-ya :)
I got no problem with people being nit-picky witch-me... :-)
But I do expect to see an authoritative source for the information.
Otherwise, the only valid point in this whole thread is that the O.P. needs
to register his existing certs on his MCP Transcript . . . [ and see what
shows up in the Certification Planner afterwards ].
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>"Paul Jones" <ne...@news-only.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
>news:e3juc5915hb80f1sj...@4ax.com...
>
>>>I never claimed anything to be fact; I directed the O.P. to the
>>>authoritative source for information, which sadly is incomplete as
>>>concerns
>>>the use of CompTIA+ exams.
>>
>> No you gave the user bad information. Quote:
>> "To use your CompTIA certs as elective credit for the MCSA/MCSE, you
>> need to ensure that they're recorded on your MCP transcript:"
>>
>> Note the word 'your'! So you were advising the OP he could use his
>> CompTIA A+ and N+ certs towards and MCSE.
>
><sigh>.. speaking of no time to deal with penny-ante pedantic arguments . .
>.
>
>I'm outta here!
Apology accepted. It is always good to see a man admit he was wrong.
Lawrence Garvin [MVP]
Yeah.. it's a property of a Regional Service Center (Australia), not the
Corporate Microsoft Learning group, and my point is that I've found several
other 'out-of-date' content items at that URL
(http://www.microsoft.com/australia) (like downloads for Win2003 Evaluation
Editions, which were pulled from the U.S. site eons ago and do not exist on
any other *regional* site in the world)... my point is that *I* believe that
URL (http://www.microsoft.com/australia) has no credibility (with me, at
least) because of the poor maintenance of archaic content at that site... my
point is that for =U.S.= candidates, trusting or using information from a
*regional* site is a bad idea, under any circumstances.
The certification program is managed by the Regional Service Centers (Who do
you call if you have a certification problem???) -- and *maybe* that
information is still valid for Australia; or *maybe* that URL should have
been removed from the site; or *maybe* the ability to use CompTIA exams has
actually been deprecated and the website(s) have been poorly updated to
reflect that; or *maybe* the specific exam(s) that are acceptable is
changing, or has changed. When the only references that can be cited are
dated over three years ago, and from non-corporate sources, I'm going to be
a bit skeptical about the authority and accuracy of that information.
Ironically, despite what appears to be an effort on the part of Microsoft
Learning to centralize and localize their web pages . . .
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcse.aspx
There aren't any other "localized" English-language sites with this content:
All of these links result in an HTTP 404 redirect to Microsoft's search
engine
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/uk/certification/mcse.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/ca/certification/mcse.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/au/certification/mcse.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/nz/certification/mcse.aspx
-- and to my total amusement, the redirected page for the /en/au/ link,
doesn't even include a single search reference to
http://www.microsoft.com/australia.
*AND*... if you go to http://www.microsoft.com/australia and click on the
link for "IT Pro Training & Certification", that link redirects you to . . .
Guess Where!?! -- the EN-US content on the corporate site:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/default.aspx
To me, that says that any of the certification pages still available from
http://www.microsoft.com/australia are abandoned, and the problem is simply
that they've not been removed from the site.
But the bottom line here, and it applies to *everybody* participating in
this thread...
==WE== do not know the facts, as applicable to the MCSA/MCSE certifications
in ==2009==, except based on what is posted on the Microsoft Learning
Official Certification Requirements pages
Paul Jones
<lawr...@news.postalias> wrote:
>==WE== do not know the facts, as applicable to the MCSA/MCSE certifications
>in ==2009==, except based on what is posted on the Microsoft Learning
>Official Certification Requirements pages
Bullshit. Stop clutching at straws. You are just digging a deeper hole.
Parddiscussio...@discussions.microsoft.com
A+/N+ certs, they do appear on my transcript now, I also contacted the
regional support coordinator and she confirmed that to acquire MCSA Windows
Server 2003, i would only need to do 290, 291,270/620 and A+&N+ would qualify
to satisfy one of the electives, it's also stated in the cert. planner.