Re: Multidimensional Forms/Tables
PC Datasheet
this. My fees are very reasonable.
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
reso...@pcdatasheet.com
www.pcdatasheet.com
"sharan" <kaursh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23YOzQP2...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Please see the attachment. How can I create a form like this to store
> information.
>
> Here is what I have done.
>
> Created table BUSINESS , which has all the business names.
> Created table CATEGORY , that has the Business name and Category Name.
> Created table SUB CATEGORY , that has the Category Name and Sub Category
> Name.
>
> Created table APPLICATION , Which has all the Application Names
> Created table COMPONET, Which has the Application Name and Component Name.
>
> I have linked all the tables and have primary keys.
>
> Create a query which would pull out all the Business, Category ,
> Subcategory
> , Application and Component infomation.
>
> PROBLEM: If you look at the attachment I need to store values X. How doI
> store this information and it which Table. Also how can I design a form
> like
> the Excel sheet that helps me to store Information in a user friendly way.
>
> Thanks,
> Sharan.
>
>
>
>
>
Douglas J. Steele
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:Nkz1f.10936$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:eqJzG43y...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Douglas J. Steele
You know that: you've been told MANY times by MANY different people, yet you
still persist.
Are you really that egocentric that you figure you can ignore everyone?
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:hGD1f.11598$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
I have always respected your approach and continue to feel that way. My
intent here is not meant to put you down in any way. I just am asking you on
a professional level where specifically does it say that offers of help on
an Access related problem for a fee are prohibited?
Steve
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:%23UcCGWA...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Douglas J. Steele
posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
However, as you're well aware, the vast majority of people here interpret
"the intended use ... of the newsgroup" to mean that this is a free help
service.
I'm sorry that your business is so poor that you feel it necessary to
emulate ambulance-chasing lawyers, using tactics that draw the scorn and
comtempt of your peers.
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:NgX1f.10980$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Duane Hookom
"NewsGroup" etiquette advertise
First Hit
=========================
http://www.netscape.co.uk/help/faqs/newsgroups/newsgroupmanners.htm
Don't Spam
Spamming is e-mailing or posting unsolicited advertising. Never post
advertising on a Newsgroup unless it is specifically created to accept
adverts.
Second Hit
=========================
http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/posting_style.html
Please do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.
Advertisements on Usenet are rarely appreciated. In general, the louder or
more inappropriate the ad is, the more antagonism it stirs up. Just think
how annoying it is to you to have your evening meal interrupted by a
telemarketer. The feeling is the same when someone posts inappropriate
commercial messages in a newsgroup. If in doubt, don't do it.
Third Hit
==========================
http://www.gotfusion.com/tutsTD/groupetiquette.cfm
DO NOT Advertise: It doesn't work, it gets people really really mad, it
gets me really really mad, and no matter what you say it will not be taken
well. Everyone HATES SPAM. This is one of the things that will guarantee
that I bring out my "big hammer" and remove your thread. Do not answer posts
of this nature as it just adds to the number of posts I have to remove. If
you continue to advertise after being warned you may find yourself
blacklisted from posting anything on these newsgroups.
Fourth Hit
==========================
http://www.mommyshelperonline.com/email-etiquette.html
6.) Use 4-6 lines for your signature line, this is an opportunity to
highlight your business or company information, but don't be ostentatious..
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:NgX1f.10980$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
I will preface what I have to say with, I have been reading the newsgroups
for many years and all that time you have stood out as a prominent figure. I
can say as a fact that everything that you have always had to say was said
in a very professional way. From that I have developed great respect for you
and continue to feel that respect. What I have to say is meant to be in the
spirit of that respect and is no way intended to put you down.
None of what you quoted here comes from the Rulse Of Conduct and therefore
does not apply. The Rules Of Conduct are found at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
and the pertinent part states:
"We ask that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that
do not pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or
chat."
Nonetheless, here is my response ---
As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at
my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are
very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains
to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help
with Access related problems. Duane Hookom, MS Access is the same type of
advertising. So is the following:
o "MVPDoug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP"
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
The above are a very small example of what you see daily on the newsgroups.
In terms of Contact me if you would like help, I am not the only one to post
this type of post. Every once in a while you will see offers from others
besides myself. Consider the following:
genenky -
You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can discuss what you're
seeking to do.-
Ken Snell
<MS ACCESS MVP>
No one posts derogatory responses to these others. Is it because Ken is an
MVP?
In terms of advertising, consider the following in the sig line of an
infrequent responder:
"A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response"
Check out the web address. It has absolutely nothing to do with Access. You
see other adverts like this and adverts that are directly in the body of the
post. None of the above are ever taken to task for advertising that
obviously does not pertain to providing Access users a resource for help
with Access problems.
In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of
Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their
malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you
keep silent rather than trying to support them.
Thanks, Duane,
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O0LiZgFz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
newsgroup" to mean that this is a free help service.>>
responders to the newsgroups. The vast majority of these posters and
responders have never expressed an opinion one way or another. The fact of
the matter is that there are only a handful of people that have made
condescending responses to my posts offering help for a fee (Arno R, Keith
Wilby, Randy Harris, rkc to name a few.) The fact of the matter is that
there are ten times this number that accept fee-based offers of help. On
numerous occasions I have been paid a fee for my help from a poster I made
an offer to. From most other posters I have made an offer to, I receive a
genuine thank you with an explanation of why they are unable to pay a fee
(boss says No, limited budget, personnal application to name a few.) It is
rare that I get a response back mentioning any expectation of "free help".
Do you agree that the purpose of the newsgroup is to provide Access users a
resource for getting help with Access problems? Look at my Sig:
"Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel and Word Applications"
My mission is to provide customers a resource for help with Access, Excel
and Word applications. And I am very successful at this. I charge customers
a very reasonable fee and I do the best I can to ensure customers are well
satisfied. A good portion of my business is from the newsgroups helping
customers with typical problems you read in the newsgroups daily. I am not a
major consulting firm ripping customers off for a $100 or more an hour. My
typical projects are $500 to $1500 and I am busy 85-90% of the time. I do
not do mission-critical projects.
You accurately quote the Rules Of Conduct, "We ask that you refrain from
posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the
intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." My offers of fee-based
help are always Access related and pertain to the purpose of the newsgroup
to provide Access users a resource for getting help with Access problems. On
at least a ten-to-one ratio I also provide free support on the newsgroups. I
judiciously only offer fee-based help to posters who seem to need extra help
beyond a newsgroup. Some time ago an MVP responded to one of my posts,
"True, but that (that I provide a lot of free support in the Access
newsgroups) is not the issue you are being taken to task on. It is your
offering to help without disclosing the cost. When you post any of your
"call me" messages, you need to indicate that unlike other offers of help,
your help comes at a price." I have taken that suggestion and sincerely make
an effort to always indicate that I am offering fee-based help. For example,
my post in this thread reads, "Contact me at my email address below if you
would like outside help with this. My fees are very reasonable."
As far as advertising, please explain in concrete terms how "Contact me at
my email address below if you would like outside help with this. My fees are
very reasonable" is advertising. My sig is advertising but again it pertains
to the purpose of the newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help
with Access related problems. Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP is the same
type of advertising. So is the following:
I want to address another Rule Of Conduct that reads:
"Appropriate Language: The purpose of our communities is to exchange
technical information and expertise about Microsoft products. Please avoid
personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in your interactions."
<< I'm sorry that your business is so poor ...>>
You know nothing about my business. Please explain what makes you think that
you are qualified to make a statement like this? As stated above, the
opposite is true in fact which makes your statement a personal attack, a
slur and slanderous.
<<emulate ambulance-chasing lawyers>>
This statement also is nothing but a personal attack and a slur.
In making these kind of statements, you are therefore violating the Rules Of
Conduct.
Please do not consider the above an affront because I sincerely do respect
you, Doug. The above is to just make a point.
In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes of
Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their
malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you
keep silent rather than makeing statements like are in this post.
Thanks, Doug,
Steve
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:ujRx8WFz...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
an offer to provide contract/paid services. In this case, you did this in a
post not even 90 minutes old.
I have never objected to your (or anyone else's) signature line (at least
not that I recall). I have even defended you in threads where your only
suggestion of selling services was your signature.
I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context. I
could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did
fishing for work on a brand new thread.
I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long and
it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.
I rarely if ever see replies like some of yours that jump on a brand new
thread with an offer to provide consulting services. It may happen more than
I have noticed but you must admit that you blatantly advertise or ask for
business more than any other poster by a large margin. I don't read all the
Access related NGs but if score was kept in the ones I frequent, you
wouldn't have any competition.
Answer one question:
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free
advice/support?
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:vel2f.12303$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Duane Hookom
You are a complete idiot! I just searched for the thread you quoted from Ken
Snell. The thread subject was "i need a pro". How can you even suggest that
what you do compares with Ken's reply? Do you have no common sense? Can't
you tell the difference between a OP who comes looking for free advice and
someone who comes expecting to pay?
The full text of the message Ken replied to:
"hi all, is there a site that has a list of pros that will actually set
up microsoft access for me. i need it set up for my small business
and it is far too complicated for me. i live in the northern kentucky
area about 50 miles south of cincinnati ohio. thanks for any replies
an have a nice holiday weekend"
In another reply in the same thread, the OP stated:
"..and then they could have an idea as to what they should charge me. "
Here's a little test. Rate the following on the appropriateness offering to
provide paid contracting services:
Subject 1: i need a pro
Subject 2: Multidimensional Forms/Tables
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:vel2f.12303$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Duane Hookom
I apologize for the "idiot" remark. It wasn't appropriate in any public
forum. I should have limited myself to criticizing your posts and not your
person.
Your posts in this thread incensed me like none others ever have in the
past.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ovga5nVz...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Douglas J. Steele
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
> My sig is advertising but again it pertains to the purpose of the
> newsgroups to provide Access users a resource for help with Access related
> problems. Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP is the same type of
> advertising.
I fail to see how listing my name is advertising. I am employed full-time,
and do not accept external contracts.
> In conclusion, I want to ask that you drop out of the crowd of the likes
> of Arno R, Keith Wilby, Randy Harris and others and defend me from their
> malicious attacks. If you are not willing to do this then I ask that you
> keep silent rather than makeing statements like are in this post.
Duly noted (and ignored)
Steve: You know very well that a large number of participants in this
newsgroup are opposed to your crass commercial activities. If you feel
they're justified, we can't stop you. However, we can continue to express
our displeasure. Hopefully potential clients will realize that your methods
aren't very professional (as one poster in
microsoft.public.access.tablesdbdesign recently did)
PC Datasheet
commercial activities>>
What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:uzLQcPYz...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Do you not think that people come to these News Groups looking for free
advice/support?>>
People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access related
problem. Some times they get no response; therefore no solution. Sometimes
they get a long winded response that provides no solution. Some times they
get a response that is beyond their ability and therefore are unable to
implement the solution. Some times the response is so poorly written that it
is incomprehensible. Some times the response is written so illogically that
it is too hard for the average user to understand. Some times the solution
being sought is beyond what can reasonably be expected to be given for free.
Some times they get a response offering fee-based help. The poster has the
option to contact me if he so chooses. Many do because the need for the
solution justifies paying for a solution! My fees are very reasonable and
these posters are happy to receive my fee-based help. So where else do you
think these posters could go to receive a quick solution for a reasonable
fee?
<<> I would not have criticized you if this thread was about 10 replies long
and it was clear that the OP needed to find a contractor.>>
So, you are agreeing that it is OK to offer fee-based services under certain
conditions. Well that is just what I am doing! To paraphrase your words a
little, when I think that it is clear that the poster is not going to be
able to solve his problem from the newsgroup, then I consider offering him
the option of fee-based help. And not every response I make is one offering
fee-based help. On at least a ten to one ratio, I provide free
advice/support over offering fee-based help. In a vast majority of me free
responses, I also take the time to provide a very good quality response. I
try to provide all the details the poster needs. Since some time ago when an
MVP suggested that I clearly say that my offer for help is fee-based, I have
tried to follow that suggestion.
Answer three questions ---
1. You are an Access expert and could answer any question posted. Why don't
you answer the posts that receive no response?
2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?
3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uNVvChVz...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
you answer the posts that receive no response?
- I can't answer (lack of knowledge on my part)
- I feel someone can answer better than I can
for instance skipping labels in a report or PDF related
or ADO code or use of lookup fields
- I don't want to answer
- I don't have time to answer since there are lots of threads
2. Why don't you respond to the posts that you know the poster is not going
to solve his problem from the responses he received?
A:
- I sometimes go off-line for free or if asked, suggest they make a
donation to a charity such as Special Olympics
- I am never sure how to determine if the NG is going to satisfy a need
- I have suggested an OP find a consultant
3. What if any problems do you see being caused by my offering fee-based
help to limited posters in the newsgroups?
A:
- I objected to this post since you were the first to reply
and offered to help for a fee
- think for a minute (I assume you can think) what these NGs would
become if even 10 or 12 other persons posted similar replies of
offers to help for a fee. Maybe every MVP and other significant
replier should feel free to offer to help for a fee.
I would hate for these NGs to become a marketing tool for consultants. Why
is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he should be able to use these NGs to
fish for work when others don't?
Again, I think you either just don't "get it" or refuse to "accept it".
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:dkw2f.12599$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
David Mueller
My dad, who clicks twice when he only needs to click once, already knows
that newsgroups are not the place for commercial activity. If Sharan wanted
for-hire services she wouldn't have posted here. You know that!!!
> <<a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass
> commercial activities>>
I am one of the large number of participants in this newsgroup that is
opposed to your commercial activites. And just because its Columbus Day, and
I don't have much to do, I'll waste my time to tell you.
Normally, the large number of us don't bother to post, but from now on, I
think I will. Most of us roll our eyes and grunt over at the 15-20 seconds it
took for your post to load, and for us to read it. That is 20 seconds of our
lives that we'll never get back.
You write well enough that I know you're not as thick as you act. For
someone who admits to reading news groups for many years, you know darn well
that solicitation/commercial activity is not welcome.
>
> What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?
>
Stop hiding behind a lack of concrete evidence. Social groups have what are
called mores (mo * res) that are not documented, but are accepted and
expected of the group.
Please move on to something else.
PC Datasheet
You have not posted or responded in the Access newsgroups in the past three
years and you hide behind discussions.microsoft.com trying to avoid being
traced.
Steve
"David Mueller" <DavidM...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DB0BC22B-B1A2-458E...@microsoft.com...
PC Datasheet
So answer this ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as
to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem
solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:utg172bz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
behavior is a 0.
Contact me at my email address below if you would like assistance with
explaining this further. My fees are very reasonable.
--
Duane Hookom
DuaneHookom AT nospam Hotmail dot nospam com
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:WYE2f.12126$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
The question put to you is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate
answer not an Arno R response.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eBK9XChz...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
My question that you ignored is "Why is Steve/PC Datasheet special that he
should be able to use these NGs to fish for work when others don't?"
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:_4G2f.13139$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
WSF
"People come to the newsgroups looking for a solution to an Access
Fat chance Steve when you respond with your plug so quickly. Or do you
really believe those who volunteer their expertise here are, like you,
waiting to pounce on a post?
I'll say one thing Steve. You provide plenty of entertainment. Given the
repetitious diatribes you put out you are obviously not too busy. Get a
life mate. You have no chance of scoring any points here.
Your begging for work here rings like an encyclopaedia door-to-door
salesman.
Oh, and as you will have gathered from my previous post, why do you not
sign your questions to the newsgroups the same way you sign your
questions? Questions, I figure, you already know the answers to?
WSF
You must be wondering what the hell you have started here.
I wish I could address you problem, but I cannot.
I hope somebody answers you question soon.
BTW its not a good idea to send attachments with your posts. Generally
no one will open them fearing a payload!
Cheers,
WSF
John Marshall, MVP
raises a legitimate point, but you respond by personally attacking him. The
newsgroups are full of lurkers who find answers to their questions or
enhance their knowledge by reading the newsgroups without having to post a
question or an answer, .
Are you such a novice to newsgroups that you do not understand that David
uses disucussions.microsoft.com as part of his user name to prevent his
email address being harvested? I'm willing to bet his name really is David
Mueller and that your parents names are not the Datasheets.
You enjoy twisting comments about your behaviour to fit your behaviour. Are
you sure you are not a lawyer? You have the ambulance chasing part down pat.
In a previous thread I mentioned that at least someone did mention that
there was cost to their help. You twisted that to be that I considered that
form of advertising was ok. I consider that case to be similar to someone
tossing a hand grenade in a room versus someone tossing a hand grenade in a
room and yelling DUCK! The second version is slightly better because it did
warn the occupants about what could happen, but that does not mean I agree
with throwing hand grenades into occupied rooms.
John... Visio MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:wJE2f.13097$q1.1...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
David Mueller
this group!
If anyone lacks credibility it is you since I have three contributory posts
on this forum: two dated 7/29/05; one dated 7/15/05; in addition to a
question for help.
Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand - David Mueller is my
real name.
Marshall Barton
yourself from such an obviously spurious attack. Your
credibility is every bit as good as anyone's and better than
that of someone with an established pattern of irritating
behavior.
--
Marsh
David Mueller
"PC Datasheet" wrote:
> So answer this ----
> On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as
> to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem
> solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.
> The question put to you (Duane) is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate
> answer not an Arno R response.
>
This question is another logical fallacy similar to your ad hominem attack
on me earlier. This latest "begs the question", therefore it is not a
legitimate question in this context.
In other words, ... of course everyone wants everyone to get all the help
they need. But that says nothing regarding the intention, culture, or rules
of the newsgroup. If you want the intention changed, lobby Microsoft, or
start your own discussion forum on your own dime. If you need help setting
up your own newsgroup/blog/discussion forum, there are plenty of
newsgroup/discussion forum sites that offer free help and advice!
If you have other questions, please refer to my previous post. I have work
to do...
PC Datasheet
previous thread. Your last line explicitly suggests that I indictate my
offer of help is fee-based in my "call me" messages. I took your suggestion
since then and have tried to do that in each "call me" message. Take a look
at my response in this thread. I said "My fees are very reasonable"; just as
you suggested.
I know that and provide a lot of free support in the Access newsgroups!
True, but that is not the issue you are being taken to task on. It is your
offering to help without disclosing the cost.
..... When you post any of your "call me" messages, you need to indicate
that
unlike other offers of help, your help comes at a price.
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:e3rYnXlz...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
either date by you. A google search does not turn up any posts by you for
the past three years.
"David Mueller" <DavidM...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1AEFC708-D6E7-42D5...@microsoft.com...
Douglas J Steele
Doesn't speak well for your Googling skills...
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:DiR2f.13303$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
John Marshall, MVP
The full phrase was...
"As a member of this community, I was just reminding you that these
newsgroups were provided
so that users can obtain free help not a means for you to solicit business.
When you post any of your "call me" messages, you need to indicate that
unlike other offers of help, your help comes at a price."
I was not condoning your activity, I was reminding you that if you are going
to continue soliciting, you should at least give the users fair warning.
John... Visio MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:X2R2f.13073$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
reasonable" in this thread.
Now that I am not offering to help without disclosing the cost; what's the
problem?
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:eRSQmGo...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Explain what is "irritating" by fee-based offers of help to posters.
Steve
"Marshall Barton" <marsh...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:i4jnk1l64ra7u70iu...@4ax.com...
PC Datasheet
Note he said "...on this forum..." This is microsoft.public.access.forms.
And BTW, you still haven't answered my question ---
<<a large number of participants in this newsgroup are opposed to your crass
commercial activities>>
What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?
Steve
"Douglas J Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:u5iaeFoz...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
John Marshall, MVP
commercial activities>>
What concrete evidence do you have to support this statement?
John...
Douglas J Steele
does not make it so.
And to answer your question (even though I suspect it's going to make any
difference to you), I base my comment on the fact that no one is supporting
you, but a non-insignificant number of people are taking you to task.
The fact that your marketing posts violate the standard rules of newsgroups
(as evidenced by the various references posted by Duane) is also a factor.
Microsoft may have chosen to tone down the rules they published, but that
doesn't negate the fact that these are NNTP newsgroups, which have a body of
rules that predates Microsoft's foray into newsgroups.
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:IsS2f.12391$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
I don't make any claims to being "special". I am not even a MVP. I am just
sincerely trying to help selected posters get a solution to their problem at
a very reasonable fee. And again I provide free support/advise tenfold to my
posts offering fee-based help. I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time
ago and try to always make it clear in my offers that it is fee-based. I
only advertise in my sig like numerous MVPs and other consultants and I
don't globally solicit.
This morning there were two emails in my inbox asking for fee-based help.
The posters were from the newsgroups. This makes 11 requests since I posted
my offer for fee-based help to Sharan in this thread four days ago. I have
completed 8 of the previous 9 requests and my total fees was $900. One
requestor commented he had proposals from other MVPs who frequently respond
in the newsgroups and all had fees at least four times my fees. He said one
had fees over the $900 total fees I have received from the eight requests
for help I completed. The 11 requests are a little above the average I
receive each week. This morning's two requests put me over 1000 requests for
the past four years.
People go to the newsgroups seeking solutions to legitimate problems and for
whatever reason do not always find the solution. The problem does not go
away and these people then need an alternative resource for solving their
problem. The core purpose of the newsgroups is to provide Access users with
an Access related problem a means to finding a solution to their problem.
This is why the Rules of Conduct read the way they do, "We ask that you
refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain
directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." I
provided that alternative resource for help to the 1000 posters.
So here is my question to you again ----
On a scale of 0 to 10, rate your feeling for what you would like to see as
to what percentage of posters with a legitimate problem gets his problem
solved from the newsgroups where 0 is None and 10 is All.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eju4WXhz...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
John Marshall, MVP
> I followed the suggestion of a MVP some time ago and try to always make it
> clear in my offers that it is fee-based.
The suggestion was not an endorsement of your activities, just that if you
were going to ignore the spirit of these newsgroups, that the users deserved
a warning.
John... Visio MVP
Duane Hookom
groups and other public forums where users go for free support. Imagine one
reply after another with nothing more than:
============================================
Contact me at my email address below if you would like outside help with
this. My fees are very reasonable.
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
============================================
Can you understand what these NGs might become? There are a lot of contract
programmers out in the world that would be more than happy to get free
advertising by just fishing in the NGs. I know some very knowledgeable
developers that provide free support in these groups who would like free
advertising.
The important thing to note is that 99.9% or more of the contract
programmers don't do this. Why? Because they understand. They don't feel
that they are "special" or "exceptions" to the generally accepted standards.
You, Steve, apparently assume you are one of the 0.1% or less who will not
abide by the generally accepted standards.
Someone already posted a comment on the fact that as people search for
public, free answers, they must at least glance through your ads. You are
wasting lots of peoples' time.
Regarding your question about the % of people who get sufficient solutions
from NG responses, I don't have a clue. Maybe MS has some study information
but I am not aware of it. Not all OPs respond back with "this has solved my
problem". I know that 100% aren't resolved but also know that those posters
looking for additional assistance have lots of other options. They aren't
dumb and don't need to be hit with blatant ads (see above). They can read
through quality responses and decide if they need further assistance. I (and
many others) have been emailed directly and haven't hinted at consulting
services in our posts or signatures.
Please just let the quality of your answers along with your signature (this
doesn't offend me much) be your advertisement.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:uum2Hiyz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Here's the direct quote from your previous response ---
"When you post any of your "call me" messages, you need to indicate that
unlike other offers of help, your help comes at a price."
I have been doing just as you suggested. I said "My fees are very
reasonable" in this thread.
Now that I am not offering to help without disclosing my offer of help is
fee-based, what's the
problem?
And ---
So now you think I am ignoring the spirit of these newsgroups not
"advertising"???
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:uum2Hiyz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Why are you so defensive about what you said in your previos response? This
is at least the third time you are seemingly trying to cover up what you
said.
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:uum2Hiyz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
John Marshall, MVP
activities?
The comment about warning users is the same as the warning label on a pack
of cigarettes. That does not mean that if the warning label is there, that
there are no longer any health hazards to smoking. You take one sentence,
remove it from it''s context and try to use it as though I was giving you
permission to harrass users with "please call me".
John... Visio MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:HJj3f.13032$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
state they were fee-based. Now that I clearly state my offer is fee based.
you say that they are harassing users.
Why don't you explain how a fee-based offer of help "harasses" users.
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:%23YdQ6d%23zFH...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
Why do you focus on a small, out of context statement made by John when you
have yet to justify any of your advertising postings in any public news
group anywhere?
There is a reason why advertising is not deemed acceptable in public news
groups. This reason has been explained to you over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and
over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and
over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and
over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and
over and over and over...
Yet, you continue to think you should be able to ignore this simple piece of
netiquette.
I personally would not mind if a thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee. There are OPs
that would benefit from this. However, I personally don't set the standards
of netiquette. I would not criticize you for offering fee-based services if
free, public resources were futile. Please don't take my statements out of
context or suggest that I said you could advertise. This is my opinion only.
I will sometimes ask an OP to send me a file when public exchanges do not
work. I don't ask for money when doing this (and I don't promise to find a
resolution).
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:2lu3f.14174$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
with this. My fees are very reasonable" IS NOT advertising!
2. 11 requests for fee based help since I posted #1 to Sharan in this
thread on 10/7
3. 1000 completed requests for fee based help in the last four years
4. I judiciously only make an offer of fee-based help where it appears
highly unlikely that a poster will get a solution to his post or where it
appears highly unlikely that the poster will be able to get a solution to
his post on his own.
5. Ten fold responses of free advice/support
6. 2 & 3 are clearly in the spirit of the newsgroups to provide a resource
for Access users to find solutions to their problems
If it will ease your mind, I will put in the subject "Offer of fee-based
help"
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23qIwg%23D0FH...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
You still haven't given me an answer.
Steve
"Marshall Barton" <marsh...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:i4jnk1l64ra7u70iu...@4ax.com...
Duane Hookom
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=advertise
2.-6. Your attempt to redefine netiquette.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Microsoft Access MVP
PC Datasheet
Particularly note 2b!!
1.. To present for acceptance or rejection; proffer: offered me a drink.
2.. a) To put forward for consideration; propose: offer an opinion.
b) To present in order to meet a need or satisfy a requirement
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Help
1.
a) The act or an instance of helping.
b) Aid or assistance.
2. Relief; remedy.
You have completely lost touch with what the newsgroups' core purpose really
is.!!
In the time you have spent dogging me you could have used your
Access/database knowledge to help a multitude of Access users with problems
who came to the newsgroups seeking help solving their problems. This is one
of the reasons 1000 Access users came to me in the past four years willing
to pay me for help with their problems. You don't get it!! You have left
your emotion take over just like in your previous response where you called
me an idiot. In the past you condemned Arno R for his tactics and now you
have become just the same. Respect for you is quickly fading!
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8C5BD59A-ED54-470C...@microsoft.com...
PC Datasheet
I give you credit here for a professionally written debate and the fact that
you were not condescending. Now accept my rebuttal in the spirit of a
rebuttal rather than a personal attack against you.
Your argument doesn't hold water! For four years I have been posting my
offer for help and you have not seen any sign of your doomsday prediction
that the newsgroups would collapse. You criticize me for making offers to
help other Access users but consider the following statistics for the
following newsgroups:
comp.databases.microsoft-access
microsoft.public.access.formscoding
microsoft.public.access.gettingstarted
microsoft.public.access.modulesDAOVBA
microsoft.public.access.queries
microsoft.public.access.reports
microsoft.public.access.tablesDBDesign
In the months of July through September, there were 67 posts to these
newsgroups that were pure spam. Posts to the wrong newsgroup were not
counted; for example, Excel, Word and Outlook questions posted to these
newsgroups were not counted. None of the 67 spam posts were related to
Access in any way. This was three times as many posts I made offering
fee-based help. You follow all these newsgroups and I did not see where once
you responded to any of them about advertising or the Rules Of Conduct for
the newsgroups. You need to stop dogging me and start dogging all these
others who can really harm the newsgroups. Untethered, these spam posts can
take over the newsgroups.
What has actually happened is that the number of Access users who have come
to me for help and are willing to pay me a fee for the help has steadily
increased over the past four years. I have now completed 1000 requests for
help. You stated there are a lot of contract programmers out in the world
that would be more than happy to get free advertising by just fishing in the
NGs. Just to clarify, I offer fee-based help. I do not advertise in the body
of my posts. There is a difference between offering fee-based help and pure
advertising. There are reasons why the contract programmers you mention
don't make offers for fee-based help like I do.
1. Ethically, an offer for fee-based help should not be made to every
poster. It takes time and patience to judiciously determine which posters
most likely have a need to pay a fee for help. I only offer fee-based help
where it appears the poster will most likely not get the help he needs from
the newsgroup or where it appears that most likely the poster will not be
able to solve his problem on his own.
2. Making offers of fee-based help carries the obligation to also give free
advice/support in the newsgroups. This takes significant time. I give
tenfold free advice/support in the newsgroups.
3. Contract programmers bill at a high fee per hour. One recent user who
came to me for fee-based help said several MVPs from the newsgroups
contacted him and their fees were three to five times higher than mine.
4. Contract programmers bill at an hourly rate an are very reluctant to
deviate from it. I do all my work for a fixed fee so that the customer knows
from the beginning what his total cost will be.
You made the statement that people reading through the newsgroups glance
through my offers for fee-based help and consequently I waste lots of
peoples' time. The following was taken from a single thread in a newsgroup.
The posts were all made by MVPs.
>Did remember to put the trash out last night.<
>That reminds me, have to put mine out tonight. Dunno if the bin men will
>come though, unless
they have studded tyres on :-)>
> Is that the latest fashion for bin men in your area? I'd think that a
> rather odd article of clothing. Studded collars and armbands, maybe, but
> tyres?>
>Well some of them are a bit portly so they have a spare :-)>
>Damn, I'm glad you did that instead of me.>
> Cleaned baby fish shoeboxes this morning.>
>????
>I was puzzled too. Apparently these are for baby fish to live in your
>aquarium until
they are large enough that the adult fish won't eat them. Well much. They
are a
clear plexiglass contaner with a lid and small enough holes that the water
can
circulate but the baby fish can't get out.>
>I was thinking: baby fish don't wear shoes, why would they need shoeboxes?>
> baby fish don't wear shoes>
>How do you know? They might just slip into a pair when you're not looking
>;-)>
>I was thinking: baby fish don't wear shoes, why would they need shoeboxes?>
>I've often seen an old boot at the bottom of a fish tank.>
>It was entertaining to watch all the sponsored links change to Aquarium
>products.>
>Yes, that is correct. My shoes use Google. So do my boots, my sneakers, my
>insoles, my dress shoes, my socks and all fashion accessories related to my
>feet.>
That's 15 posts a reader would have had to read through!!! One of the
previous posters said it takes 15-20 seconds for a post to load, and to read
it. That is 20 seconds of our lives that we'll never get back. Well all the
readers of the above 15 posts wasted 5 minutes of their lives that they'll
never get back.
I am not against levity! But there are points to be made here:
1. What is in line with the intent of the newsgroups; an offer of help with
an Access related problem or the meaningless drivel above?
2. The above type of drivel occurs regularly in the newsgroups. Why have
you never responded to any of these occurences if you are so concerned about
users wasting time?
3. Consider for a moment what would happen if the occurences of this type
of drivel escalated to every other post. Can you understand what these NGs
might become?
4. Is it your contention that an offer of help with an Access related
problem is not within generally accepted standards but the above type of
drivel is?
The Rules Of Conduct say "Please make sure that your postings in discussion
groups and chats are relevant to the subject at hand."
The general population of newsgroup readers don't start or participate in
this type of drivel. Why? Because they understand. They don't feel that they
are "special" or "exceptions" to the generally accepted standards.
The above MVPs apparently assume they are in the 0.1% or less who do not
have to abide by the generally accepted standards.
This is the end of my rebuttal!
And now I want to digress.
The Rules Of Conduct state, "Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and
profanity in your interactions." Your crusade of dogging all my posts to the
newsgroups have become akin to the conduct of Arno R. Your counterposts to
my posts are personal attacks against me and have become filled with slurs
against me. Your conduct is clearly in violation of the Rules Of Conduct. My
respect for you has been severly eroded but because there is still some, I
am asking here that you cease. Duane, don't force me to have to post a
general formal complaint against you like I had to do with Arno R. Whatever
you may think, in the end, Arno R was the loser. You have a longstanding
fine reputation; let's both keep it that way.
Respectfully,
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uqMNaSzz...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
advertise? That was the object of our discussion pertaining to #1.
How could I have lost touch with newsgroups' core purpose? My emotion took
over once when you took a comment from Ken Snell way out of context. I
called you an idiot or something for which I apologized. Your "actions"
deserved to be called stupid and/or idiotic but not necessarily your person
as a whole.
Just because your advertising works doesn't mean it isn't advertising.
I believe there is no hope for you. You continually offer tangential
statements that aren't relative to the current point (that you use public
newsgroups to advertise). You are too proud or poor or stubborn to admit
that:
1) what you are doing is advertising in public newsgroups
2) netiquette suggests that advertising in public newsgroups is not
acceptable
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:QCH3f.13610$vw6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Ken Snell [MVP]
Interesting that you decided to take one of my posts out of context ... you
know as well as I that I responded to a poster who specifically asked for a
developer on a fee basis.
Guess I will stop being neutral on this entire issue....
--
Ken Snell
<MS ACCESS MVP>
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:Mel2f.12304$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
Ken Snell [MVP]
>
> I don't recall Ken's reply but I expect you are taking it out of context.
> I could be wrong but I doubt it. Ken certainly did not reply as you did
> fishing for work on a brand new thread.
Yep, took it out of context. I had replied to a poster who specifically was
seeking a developer to do paid work (a fee basis) on a project.
As I've noted elsethread to Steve, I now will cease being neutral on this
issue regarding his posts.
PC Datasheet
My reference to your post was in no way meant to criticize you. If you are
feeling insulted in any way, I apologize. I only meant your post to be an
example. Prior to the suggestion that I specify in my posts that my offer of
help is fee-based, I used to post something like:
"Contact me at my email address below if you would like some help."
Your post read, "You can contact me via www.cadellsoftware.org and we can
discuss what you're
seeking to do."
Do you see any difference between how you worded your post and how I worded
my post? I was constantly admonished that my post is "advertising".
No harm was intended against you. Neutral is good!
Steve
"Ken Snell [MVP]" <kthsne...@ncoomcastt.renaetl> wrote in message
news:eTrOAGO...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Ken Snell [MVP]
> Ken,
>
> My reference to your post was in no way meant to criticize you.
What you may have intended is so far from the reality of what you did that
there is no way to meaningfully compare the two issues.
> If you are feeling insulted in any way, I apologize.
Feeling insulted? Hardly...
Feeling displeased at someone misrepresenting my comments in an apparently
frantic effort to defend one's actions... Yes. You had no right to use me in
your arguments unless you'd gotten my permission to do so .. especially in
this particular context.
> I only meant your post to be an example.
Of what..... your debating skills? It surely wasn't an example of your
practices being done by me.
>
> No harm was intended against you.
Intent is a nice thing, but often is not reality.... you didn't succeed in
your intent.
> Neutral is good!
You need to read my reply again... neutral is the past.... this is the
present. I am no longer neutral.
PC Datasheet
Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access related problem.
Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a daily basis.
So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23d3GQzL...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access
related problem.
Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a
daily basis.
So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23d3GQzL...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Your first sentence speaks volumes about your letting your emotion rule your
thinking! That's exactly what I mean about you losing touch with newsgroups'
core purpose. The two words are OFFER and HELP. These two words go to the
heart of what the newsgroups are about and you are rejecting the concept.
OFFER is defined (from your own dictionary) as "To present in order to meet
a need or satisfy a requirement" and HELP is defined as "Relief; remedy (sic
solution to Access related problem)". When you say you don't care what these
words mean you are syaing you don't care whether the Access users who come
to the newsgroups to find solutions to their problems get a solution or not.
I present the Access users an alternative to getting a solution to their
Access related problem that they can accept or reject. It takes up a mere
line and a half. 1000 Access users have chosen this alternative and have
gotten a solution to their Access
related problem.
Your emotion has taken over to such a degree that you have lost all
consistency in what you are saying. Here's a quote of what you said at the
beginning of this thread, "I would not have criticized you if this thread
was about 10 replies long and it was clear that the OP needed to find a
contractor." And in your current response you have turned one hundred and
eighty degrees and are carte blanc criticizing everything I do.
Additionally, in another place you said, "I personally would not mind if a
thread went on for "many days" and maybe
20+ posts and the OP just couldn't "get it" then to offer your "for charge"
services as long as you made it clear there would be a fee." Is it 10
replies or 20+ posts before you "allow" me to offer fee-based help? You're
certainly not being clear. Further,
your current response is inconsistent with another MVP's opinion. Doug
Steele said, "I will grant you that the words in Rules of Conduct for this
group, as posted at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
can be interpretted, should you choose to, as letting you advertise: "We ask
that you refrain from posting advertisements or solicitations that do not
pertain directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat."
Your statement number 2 is contrary to what Doug says. Finally, you are
literally correct in your statement number 1 but totally in error in its
meaning. The newsgroups are full of advertising! There's all the following:
o MS Access MVP
o "See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs."
o "John Viescas, author
"Building Microsoft Access Applications" (Coming Soon!)
"Microsoft Office Access 2003 Inside Out"
"Running Microsoft Access 2000"
"SQL Queries for Mere Mortals"
o David Lloyd
MCSD .NET
http://LemingtonConsulting.com
and the list goes on and on to where religious retreats are advertised by a
MVP who
frequently responds to the newsgroups. You see all of this advertising in
the newsgroups on a
daily basis.
So you see that your arguments don't hold water and what you are saying does
not make sense.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23d3GQzL...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
I initially criticized you for advertising as the first reply in a thread.
You have done this several times recently. Your posting provided no other
benefit to anyone reading your reply other than an advertisement. I know why
I found the definition of "advertise" since you didn't seem to understand
its meaning. Defining other terms have no bearing on this discussion.
Where do you get "carte blanc criticizing everything I do". I have read many
of your "legitimate" posts recently and might have even learned something
from them.
I have never criticized your signature. Can you find one posting from me
where I criticized your signature? If you search carefully, you will find
one thread where I defended your use of a signature when you were criticized
by Arno or someone else.
Can you find one instance where I criticized you in a thread where fairly
deep in it appeared an OP wouldn't find success without going off-line? I
generally don't like any thread to go off-line whether for free or fee. When
I have done this, it hasn't been for money and I try to post the solution
back in the thread so others can benefit, not just the OP. I don't expect
others to go off-line for free. I do expect them to try provide free, public
support first.
I'm not sure how you can justify "you have turned one hundred and eighty
degrees" when I believe I have been fairly consistent.
PC Datasheet
Did you ever look at Sharan's attachment?
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%232MbCqP...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Ken Snell and WSF looked at it?
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%232MbCqP...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
reply from WSF on 10/11?
Again, I don't know what this diversion has to do with your advertising your
services in a first reply in a thread. I would ask you to enlighten me on
this but you have trouble staying focused.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:FQU3f.14990$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Duane Hookom
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:HVU3f.14995$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Graham R Seach
The issue here is that you blatantly try to drum up business via the
newsgroups, and that is clearly in breach of the guidelines (and thereby,
its ethics). The newsgroups are meant to offer *free* help. The MVPs try to
solve the OPs problem in the newsgroups, for free. If that fails, we may
offer to help them offline, but the inference and intention is always that
that offline help is also free, in the spirit of the newsgroups. Having said
that, we'll sometimes find that the (now offline) problem requires more time
and resources than can be reasonably expected for free, so we either (a)
escalate it to Microsoft, (b) provide references to other resources (free or
fee-based), or (c) advise the OP and offer our professional services.
Our principal objection with you is that you go straight to offering a
*fee-based service*, without first exhausting the many other *free*
resources still available, and without attempting to solve the issue offline
for free. Your statement that you have completed 1000 fee-based requests for
help in the past 4 years may be true (I don't know), but it is irrelevent,
because of itself, that fact is not evidence that what you're doing is
ethical. I suggest also that your use of the word "requests" is a tad
generous, because it's you who is making the request - not the OP.
You emphasised the words "offer" and "help" in your response to Duane. When
you go straight to the fee-based "offer", you are soliciting a "service" -
not offering "help". That's it in a nutshell, and that's what we object to.
We applaud the many free and helpful posts that you make in these
newsgroups, and certainly don't have any issue with listing your business as
part of your signature line. No-one objects to you earning a living; we all
have to do that, but when you start charging the instant the (previously
free) problem needs to go offline - that amounts to using the newsgroups to
generate business leads. I for one have never seen you offer to take an OP's
problem offline for free (you may have - I've just never seen it).
The ethics of this matter are simple; Since you start helping for free -
finish helping for free - except of course when the problem ultimately
proves too much to reasonably expect for free, and after all other free
resources have been exhausted. Don't just go for straight for the fee-based
service.
Regards,
Graham R Seach
Microsoft Access MVP
Sydney, Australia
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:7ES3f.14758$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
I take issue with what you say.
1. a) In the first sentence, what specific published guidelines are you
referring to?
b) Where in the guidelines does it say "Thou shall not drum up
business"?
2. You say, "...we may offer to help them offline..."
a) I can't remember the last time I saw an offer like this. You could
probably count on one hand how many times an offer like this was made in the
newsgroups in the past eight months. Case in point, you are about the
eighth MVP that has responded in this thread. Undoubtedly numerous other
MVPs have read this thread. Do you see one MVP offering to help Sharan
offline? This is the exact point I made to Duane in a previous response to
him when I said that he could have helped numerous posters solve their
problems in the time he has spent dogging me. You have demonstrated keen
expertise with Access in the posts you have made to the newsgroups. In the
time you spent writing this response to me, you could have written detailed
instructions to Sharan on how to at least begin to solve his problem. Sharan
still has his problem as far as anyone can tell.
b) A goodly number of posters post through discussions.microsoft.com and
accessmonster.com. There's no way to email these posters offline. So if
offers by MVPs to help offline rarely appear in the newsgroups and there's
no way to email posters who post through discussions.microsoft.com and
accessmonster.com, your statement, "...we may offer to help them offline..."
has no validity.
Finally,
<When you go straight to the fee-based "offer", you are soliciting a
"service" - not offering "help".>
< (c) advise the OP and offer our professional services.>
So, MVPs "offer" professional services and since I am not an MVP, I
"solicit" a service?
Steve
"Graham R Seach" <gseach@NOSPAM_pacificdb.com.au> wrote in message
news:ejc4JdQ0...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Graham R Seach
<<...what specific published guidelines are you referring to?>>
The code of conduct, of which you are well aware.
<<I can't remember the last time I saw an offer like this>>
I can't help that, but it does happen.
<<...In the time you spent writing this response to me...>>
As I'm using a different machine right now, I don't have all the post
histories, so I have no idea what her original problem was. I posted here
because you are still advertising your wares on a free newsgroup.
<<...your statement, "...we may offer to help them offline..." has no
validity>>
Untrue, and an irrelevence.
OK, I can see there's no reasoning with the likes of you. You know what
you're doing is unethical, but you just don't care. You make money of the
poor souls who come here seeking help, and that's all you care about. I call
you unethical, and you offer no concrete argument to the contrary. Little
wonder you've NEVER even been considered for an MVP award.
plonk!
Regards,
Graham R Seach
Microsoft Access MVP
Sydney, Australia
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:sBX3f.15061$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
John Marshall, MVP
> Previously you criticized my offers of help because I did not explicitly
> state they were fee-based. Now that I clearly state my offer is fee based.
> you say that they are harassing users.
You were not criticized because you did not explicitly STATE they were
fee-based, it was because in a newsgroup provided for free help, your help
came at a price.
> Why don't you explain how a fee-based offer of help "harasses" users.
These newsgroups were provided for users to obtain free help, anything else
is harrassment.
John... Visio MVP
John Marshall, MVP
> Marsh,
>
> You still haven't given me an answer.
>
> Steve
and you have not apoligized to Ken Getz, F. Scott Barker's and Alison Balter
for implying that including free code with their books was a particuarly
slimy thing for them to do?
John... Visio MVP
John Marshall, MVP
> Your argument doesn't hold water! For four years I have been posting my
> offer for help and you have not seen any sign of your doomsday prediction
> that the newsgroups would collapse.
It just shows that other users of these newsgroups have respect for the
spirit of providing free support.
>You criticize me for making offers to help other Access users but consider
>the following statistics
...
> In the months of July through September, there were 67 posts to these
> newsgroups that were pure spam. ... This was three times as many posts I
> made offering fee-based help.
Irelevant, proving that others ignored the rules does not justify your
actions.
>You follow all these newsgroups and I did not see where once you responded
>to any of them about advertising or the Rules Of Conduct for the
>newsgroups.
There are other means of dealing with spam and the spam posters never see or
care about any rebuttal messages that are posted.
> What has actually happened is that the number of Access users who have
> come to me for help and are willing to pay me a fee...
Irelevant, the number of your victims still does not justify your actions.
> 2. Making offers of fee-based help carries the obligation to also give
> free advice/support in the newsgroups. This takes significant time. I give
> tenfold free advice/support in the newsgroups.
Nonsense, the only obligation is to line your pockets. You are only
providing free help to justify the money you make by soliciting in
newsgroups that are provided for users to obtain help for free. Do you
actually send a cheque to Microsoft for providing these newsgroups as a
means for you to make money?
> 3. Contract programmers bill at a high fee per hour. One recent user who
> came to me for fee-based help said several MVPs from the newsgroups
> contacted him and their fees were three to five times higher than mine.
Irrelevant, the issue is about soliciting work. As to the rates, you get
what you pay for.
> 4. Contract programmers bill at an hourly rate an are very reluctant to
> deviate from it. I do all my work for a fixed fee so that the customer
> knows from the beginning what his total cost will be.
Irrelevant, we are still talking about soliciting in newsgroups that are
provided so that users can get free help.
> The Rules Of Conduct state, "Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and
> profanity in your interactions." Your crusade of dogging all my posts to
> the newsgroups have become akin to the conduct of Arno R. Your
> counterposts to my posts are personal attacks against me and have become
> filled with slurs against me. Your conduct is clearly in violation of the
> Rules Of Conduct.
Pointing out your attempts at ambulance chasing are not personal attacks or
slurs.
For the umpteenth time, these newsgroups are provided by Microsoft so that
users can provide and recieve free assistance with Microsoft products, not
as a vehicle for individuals to make money. Most users respect this fact.
Those users who add extra information to their signature line do so to add
credence to their answers or give readers an idea of who they are dealing
with.
John... Visio MVP
WSF
WSF
WSF
I have to take exception to your use of the word "Plonk".
I will have you know that I, and probably a great many of your fellow
Ockers, have taken great pleasure from our imbibing of the good Dallie
drop. A least offensive term, and to be politically correct, I reckon
you should've used the term "Whacker".
WSF
NZL
WSF
John Marshall, MVP
user falling into Graham's killfile. The next time Graham downloads message
from the newsgroup, the killfile will remove any messages from PCD so Graham
will never see them. This will include any requests for help from PCD.
Next time I see Graham, I'll offer him something slightly better to drink.
John... Visio MVP
"WSF" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9s34f.549$S24....@news.xtra.co.nz...
PC Datasheet
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:%23WJ02rU...@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
You lose.
"Graham R Seach" <gseach@accessmvp_REMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:eWkcAvT0...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
John Marshall, MVP
> Where does THIS come from?
You'll find some of the same code in Ken Getz's Access Developer's Handbook,
F. Scott Barker's Access Power Programming and Alison Balter's Using
Microsoft Access. Are you saying that this was a particuarly slimy thing for
them to do?
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message
news:d8mqfh$3va$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
> PC Datasheet wrote:
>
> > Who is the ass?
> >
> > You fabricated a statement which you finally admitted was not true. Now
what
> > facts do you base this latest statement on:
> > "including repackaging responses from cdma"?
>
> It's time for you to smarten up and be honest and participate honestly
> in the group Steve. You were repackaging code from many free sources
> and trying to sell it for $125 dollars which was a particularly slimey
> thing to do.
>
> Now, you got your apology. I suggest you start adhering to the
> newsgroup charter. What you're doing now is text book psych - you've
> latched onto something and are doing everything you can to deflect
> attention from your misbehaviour.
>
> I ask again, using your own words: are you "man enough" to apologize to
> the group for your behaviour?
> --
> Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
John Marshall, MVP
> Checkmate!
Wrong game.
> You lose.
So having one less person to answer your questions is a victory?
John... Visio MVP
rkc
Why are you people even talking to this worm?
Unleash Arno.
PC Datasheet
Take a look at the response by rkc today (10/15). The Rules Of Conduct
state, "Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in your
interactions." Please inform him that he is violating the Rules of Conduct
of the Newsgroups with his post.
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duane...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23kp1BNQ...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Graham R Seach
Regards,
Graham R Seach
Microsoft Access MVP
Sydney, Australia
"WSF" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9s34f.549$S24....@news.xtra.co.nz...
WSF
:)
WSF
Graham R Seach
In the Land of Oz, we have a couple of colloquialisms you're probably not
aware of.
The word "plonk" refers to a (usually poor quality) alcoholic beverage. WSF
was employing our typically dry sense of humour. :-)
The word "whacker" is a term used to describe a "snake whacker", or someone
who whacks their snake (if you get my drift). I was less obscure in the term
I used.
By the way, although I hadn't done so before, I have now indeed plonked (=NG
terminology) PC whatsisname.
Regards,
Graham R Seach
Microsoft Access MVP
Sydney, Australia
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:OmTit%23Y0FH...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
so go to www.dictionary.com and look it up)
The poster butted in and made statements that had no validity. He thought
having MVP after his name makes everything he says gospel. When called to
substantiate (look this word up in the dictionary too) his statements, he
was not able to. He lost his credibility.
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:OP1vmyZ0...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Duane Hookom
probably a good assumption. I will respond to him in a moment.
In the mean time, I doubt anyone will ever get you to admit that what you
did was wrong. I see no need to continue replying in this thread.
I believe you know that what you are doing is unethical so trying to
convince you of this is a total waste of time.
However, I will continue to reply in threads where I see you advertise as
you clearly did in this thread.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:mCf4f.15275$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Duane Hookom
PCD doesn't like being called a worm. I can see his point. From now on,
please just suggest that his actions, ethics, replies, etc are "wormlike".
This might be more appropriate since you wouldn't be attacking him, just
what he does ;-).
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:mCf4f.15275$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
rkc
> rkc,
> PCD doesn't like being called a worm. I can see his point. From now on,
> please just suggest that his actions, ethics, replies, etc are "wormlike".
>
> This might be more appropriate since you wouldn't be attacking him, just
> what he does ;-).
What? You mean PCD is a real person?
I thought it was a virus.
Duane Hookom
rkc,
PCD doesn't like being called a worm. I can see his point. From now on,
please just suggest that his actions, ethics, replies, etc are "wormlike".
This might be more appropriate since you wouldn't be attacking him, just
what he does ;-).
--
Duane Hookom
--
Microsoft Access MVP
StopThisAdvertising
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> schreef in bericht news:mCf4f.15275$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Duane,
>
> Take a look at the response by rkc today (10/15). The Rules Of Conduct
> state, "Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in your
> interactions." Please inform him that he is violating the Rules of Conduct
> of the Newsgroups with his post.
Hi Steve, you are misbehaving again as I heard?
It is not much 'fun' debating with you, as a lot of us experience.
As always: You just don't give a shit about other's opinions.
It is 'wordtwisting' as usual.
So you are saying others are violating the rules of conduct?
Would you like me to show some examples of your answers to people when they ask you to refrain from advertising?
Actually there is no real need to do this (we know you are not a 'nice' person) but if you insist . . .
Btw: a few days ago in this thread you said that I lost, huh ??? I lost what ??
<Begin quote>
> I am asking here that you cease. Duane, don't force me to have to post a
> general formal complaint against you like I had to do with Arno R. Whatever
> you may think, in the end, Arno R was the loser.
<End quote>
Could you please *exactly* point out the thread or post or whatever that gave you that idea ?
But:
It is *not* about winning or losing. IMO it is about credibility and respect of opinions.
Also it has to do with caring about these groups.
You obviously don't care about the (spirit of the) groups.
Your *only* goal is advertising/jobhunting here.
Arno R
John Marshall, MVP
"Graham R Seach" <gseach@accessmvp_REMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:ejqn5If...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> John,
>
> In the Land of Oz, we have a couple of colloquialisms you're probably not
> aware of.
I am from the mother country, so plonk is a familiar word (in both senses)
> The word "plonk" refers to a (usually poor quality) alcoholic beverage.
> WSF was employing our typically dry sense of humour. :-)
The dry variety of plonk does not taste that bad. ;-)
> Regards, Graham R Seach Microsoft Access MVP
John... Visio MVP
John Marshall, MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:vhi4f.15425$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> It's a metaphor! (You're not smart enough to know the meaning of this word
> so go to www.dictionary.com and look it up)
You obviously do not understand the phrase. It's used when you are in a
winning position and you have backed
your opponent in to a corner. Graham has standards and does not believe it's
proper for him
to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
> The poster butted in and made statements that had no validity.
"butted in"? These are not private chats. Anyone is allowed to participate
in any thread.
> He thought having MVP after his name makes everything he says gospel. When
> called to substantiate (look this word up in the dictionary too)
I think you need a proper dictionary.
John... Visio MVP
StopThisAdvertising
"Graham R Seach" <gseach@accessmvp_REMOVE.com> schreef in bericht news:ejqn5If...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> By the way, although I hadn't done so before, I have now indeed plonked (=NG
> terminology) PC whatsisname.
>
> Regards,
> Graham R Seach
Please *don't* plonk PCDatashit !!
IMO you are doing him a favor with that.
The more people like you plonk him, the less people are going to 'correct' him.
So we need people like you to stop this advertising/jobhunting - maniac.
Arno R
PC Datasheet
Jump over to CDMA and take a look at the response by John Marshall this
evening (10/16) to my post. The Rules Of Conduct state, "Please avoid
personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in your interactions." Please inform
him that he is violating the Rules of Conduct of the Newsgroups with his
post.
Or are you going to implicily tell him it's OK to not follow the Rules of
Conduct too? Be sure to note that he is an MVP!!
Steve
"Duane Hookom" <duanehookom@NO_SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:98EC54B6-21C2-4F69...@microsoft.com...
PC Datasheet
authority!
How many points do you think you got now within the circle of MVPs you are
trying to impress?
Steve
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:uO080Zl...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
John Marshall, MVP
> You got your MVP out of a cracker jacks box and you think you're an
> authority!
Why do I have to be an authority to repeatedly point out to you that these
newsgroups were not provided as your own private hunting ground for money.
You have no legitamate reason for your behaviour, so you sink back to
personal attacks, something you enjoy pointing out is not condone in these
newsgroups.
> How many points do you think you got now within the circle of MVPs you are
> trying to impress?
I don't care, I'm only trying to keep the newsgroups free from ambulance
chasers. I'll let the other MVPs indicate
if they are not impressed with what I have done.
John... Visio MVP
Michel Walsh
You don't need one more MVP on your back, or don't really care any more,
but if I can summarize: why not simply trying to limit your advertising to
your signature (such as "PC Datasheet / Consulting Services")... and only if
you really make a contribution, in the body of your replying message to the
Original Poster? That has been proved acceptable, in the past, and do not
elevate the risk to see these newsgroups degenerating into disguised
publicity. After all, you wont expect Microsoft to make publicity here, and
we will rapidly move out of here if it was done, so neither the regular
posters, neither the first time users, expect to fall on disguises publicity
from posters, without any real tentative help supplied... On the other hand,
we really welcome experts (consultants or otherwise) supplying free genuine
support, and those can even get an MVP award, with time.
Vanderghast, Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:mnR4f.16210$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
PC Datasheet
chasers. I'll let the other MVPs indicate
if they are not impressed with what I have done.>>
Bull$%^#$%!!
If you cared one iota about the newsgroups you would be putting your time
into policing the posts that have nothing to do with Access. And by the way,
how many contributory responses did you make to the Access newsgroups in the
past week?
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
reso...@pcdatasheet.com
www.pcdatasheet.com
If you don't get the help you need in the newsgroup, I can help you for a
very reasonable fee. Over 1000 Access users have come to me for help
in the past four years.
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:OXrvOo0...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
StopThisAdvertising
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> schreef in bericht news:bWT4f.15752$vw6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Bull$%^#$%!!
C'mon Steve, you don't think this would 'fit' within The Rules Of Conduct ??
> If you cared one iota about the newsgroups you would be putting your time
> into policing the posts that have nothing to do with Access. And by the way,
> how many contributory responses did you make to the Access newsgroups in the
> past week?
If you would care about the newsgroups you would have stopped your advertising games long ago.
You are only using these groups as your 'hunting fields'.
IMO your free answers are only meant to disguise that.
Btw: playing chess these days ?
Arno R
John Marshall, MVP
> <<I don't care, I'm only trying to keep the newsgroups free from ambulance
> chasers. I'll let the other MVPs indicate
> if they are not impressed with what I have done.>>
>
> Bull$%^#$%!!
So that is the term you want your activities to be refered as?
> If you cared one iota about the newsgroups you would be putting your time
> into policing the posts that have nothing to do with Access. And by the
> way, how many contributory responses did you make to the Access newsgroups
> in the past week?
The Access MVPS and the other users are doing an excellent job of answering
questions, I help out when I can.
I'm still trying to get over the recent post of you thanking Arno.
John...
PC Datasheet
Have you seen the frequent free advice/support I provide on the newsgroups?
Steve
"Michel Walsh" <vanderghast@VirusAreFunnierThanSpam> wrote in message
news:er$thh10F...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Michel Walsh
Yes. It is great. And "generally" your "publicity" is quite correct too,
someone mentioned it?
You know, that means you DON'T really have MUCH to change, after all, to get
a overall great change from denigration to appreciation from this community
too. At least, as far as "I" see it, the irritation comes from somehow very
few isolated messages. That is not REALLY MUCH to change, is it?
Vanderghast, Access MVP
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:Lub5f.18052$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...