Swiss Vote to Ban New Minarets
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Rick S
Nov 29, 2009, 12:51:14 PM11/29/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
sudo
Nov 29, 2009, 5:59:44 PM11/29/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Rick,
Here's another link to it:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/
ap_on_re_eu/eu_switzerland_minaret_ban What I found interesting was
this line:
"Sunday's results stood in stark contrast to opinion polls, last
taken 10 days ago, that showed 37 percent supporting the proposal.
Experts said before the vote that they feared Swiss had pretended
during the polling that they opposed the ban because they didn't want
to appear intolerant."
The Europeans are freaking out by the Muslims moving in but don't
want to appear biased or bigoted. I'm a tolerant kind of guy myself
but I think I might would be voting right wing reactionary myself if I
lived over there.
sudo
Here's another link to it:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/
ap_on_re_eu/eu_switzerland_minaret_ban What I found interesting was
this line:
"Sunday's results stood in stark contrast to opinion polls, last
taken 10 days ago, that showed 37 percent supporting the proposal.
Experts said before the vote that they feared Swiss had pretended
during the polling that they opposed the ban because they didn't want
to appear intolerant."
The Europeans are freaking out by the Muslims moving in but don't
want to appear biased or bigoted. I'm a tolerant kind of guy myself
but I think I might would be voting right wing reactionary myself if I
lived over there.
sudo
Clogtowner
Nov 30, 2009, 2:59:31 PM11/30/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Hi y'all - link doesn't work for me. Minarets in Switzerland is like
mud huts in New York.
On Nov 29, 11:51 am, Rick S <ris...@att.net> wrote:
> Interesting:http://www.salon.com/news/religion/index.html?story=/news/2009/11/29/...
>
> Rick S
Liz P.
Nov 30, 2009, 3:35:10 PM11/30/09
to memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
I'm responding from my phone! ! I am now officially cool. This has nothing to do withyour post
Clogtowner <clogt...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Clogtowner
Nov 30, 2009, 3:45:34 PM11/30/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Hi y'all - thanks for your important input Hyacinth!
On Nov 30, 2:35 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm responding from my phone! ! I am now officially cool. This has nothing to do withyour post
>
On Nov 30, 2:35 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm responding from my phone! ! I am now officially cool. This has nothing to do withyour post
>
Liz P.
Nov 30, 2009, 5:08:00 PM11/30/09
to memphisfreeth...@googlegroups.com
LOL
Clogtowner
Dec 5, 2009, 11:26:51 AM12/5/09
to Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum
Hi y'all - here's an interesting article on the Swiss Minaret problem:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/dec/05/minarets
I think he hits on a number of points that make sense. He especially
notes that with the decline of religion people lose some of their
identity. Travel has broadened many minds and blurred national
boundaries a little, but he doesn't use the word culture to identify a
nation. It could be argued that loss of individual identity is a good
thing, as we can all then embrace humanity as our common identity, but
I don't think we are ready for that yet.
I'm sure the Swiss feel that the Minarets are a threat to their
ethnic culture. I'm also sure that the immigrant Muslims refuse to
totally submerge themselves in the culture that they have chosen to
adopt and prefer to import their own culture with them. The result is
a clash of cultures which seems glaringly obvious among the mountains
and the minarets. No doubt, the sharp edges of these images will be
worn away with time but they are causing some pain at the moment.
Although referenda indicate mob rule, I think I have to side with the
Swiss on this one for several reasons. The most important reason to me
would be that, if an immigrant voluntarily decides to move to a
country, the onus is on the immigrant to ascertain that the culture is
acceptable, and not to try to override it with an imported one. I
think that I have to use the word culture in connection with the
Muslims as their religion controls their lifestyle totally - which
produces a culture. It is more than a religion and that is what is now
displayed in many European towns and cities.
From my own experience in Europe, I see the Muslims as imposing their
culture on the communities that they select. They push their culture
as far as they can and then take a small step back when they break the
existing laws. They then try to circumvent the laws and this is
sometimes successful. The main problem is that they start a battle
when they import and impose their culture. Sooner or later I fear,
this will lead to bloodshed. We can only hope that new generations
will merge and the differences will diminish.
I have at least one reason for doubting that cultures will merge. I
met a (young?)lady in UK once who was dressed totally in a black
burka. All I could see of her was a pair of eyes. I almost fell over
laughing when she spoke to me in the thickest cockney accent that I've
ever heard. My laughter quickly turned to shock as I realized that she
was obviously born in UK, schooled there, and had only managed to
adopt the accent, while either rejecting, or isolating herself from
the culture. Of course, I've also considered the possibility that she
had no choice in the matter!
I'd better quit now!
On Nov 30, 4:08 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> LOL
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/dec/05/minarets
I think he hits on a number of points that make sense. He especially
notes that with the decline of religion people lose some of their
identity. Travel has broadened many minds and blurred national
boundaries a little, but he doesn't use the word culture to identify a
nation. It could be argued that loss of individual identity is a good
thing, as we can all then embrace humanity as our common identity, but
I don't think we are ready for that yet.
I'm sure the Swiss feel that the Minarets are a threat to their
ethnic culture. I'm also sure that the immigrant Muslims refuse to
totally submerge themselves in the culture that they have chosen to
adopt and prefer to import their own culture with them. The result is
a clash of cultures which seems glaringly obvious among the mountains
and the minarets. No doubt, the sharp edges of these images will be
worn away with time but they are causing some pain at the moment.
Although referenda indicate mob rule, I think I have to side with the
Swiss on this one for several reasons. The most important reason to me
would be that, if an immigrant voluntarily decides to move to a
country, the onus is on the immigrant to ascertain that the culture is
acceptable, and not to try to override it with an imported one. I
think that I have to use the word culture in connection with the
Muslims as their religion controls their lifestyle totally - which
produces a culture. It is more than a religion and that is what is now
displayed in many European towns and cities.
From my own experience in Europe, I see the Muslims as imposing their
culture on the communities that they select. They push their culture
as far as they can and then take a small step back when they break the
existing laws. They then try to circumvent the laws and this is
sometimes successful. The main problem is that they start a battle
when they import and impose their culture. Sooner or later I fear,
this will lead to bloodshed. We can only hope that new generations
will merge and the differences will diminish.
I have at least one reason for doubting that cultures will merge. I
met a (young?)lady in UK once who was dressed totally in a black
burka. All I could see of her was a pair of eyes. I almost fell over
laughing when she spoke to me in the thickest cockney accent that I've
ever heard. My laughter quickly turned to shock as I realized that she
was obviously born in UK, schooled there, and had only managed to
adopt the accent, while either rejecting, or isolating herself from
the culture. Of course, I've also considered the possibility that she
had no choice in the matter!
I'd better quit now!
On Nov 30, 4:08 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> LOL
>
> Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Hi y'all - thanks for your important input Hyacinth!
>
> >On Nov 30, 2:35 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> I'm responding from my phone! ! I am now officially cool. This has nothing to do withyour post
>
> >> Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Hi y'all - link doesn't work for me. Minarets in Switzerland is like
> >> >mud huts in New York.
> >> >On Nov 29, 11:51 am, Rick S <ris...@att.net> wrote:
> >> >> Interesting:http://www.salon.com/news/religion/index.html?story=/news/2009/11/29/...
>
> >> >> Rick S
>
> >> >--
>
> >> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.>> >To post to this group, send email tomemphisfreet...@googlegroups.com.>> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email tomemphisfreethought...@googlegroups.com.
> Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Hi y'all - thanks for your important input Hyacinth!
>
> >On Nov 30, 2:35 pm, "Liz P." <epurkra...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> I'm responding from my phone! ! I am now officially cool. This has nothing to do withyour post
>
> >> Clogtowner <clogtow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Hi y'all - link doesn't work for me. Minarets in Switzerland is like
> >> >mud huts in New York.
> >> >On Nov 29, 11:51 am, Rick S <ris...@att.net> wrote:
> >> >> Interesting:http://www.salon.com/news/religion/index.html?story=/news/2009/11/29/...
>
> >> >> Rick S
>
> >> >--
>
> >> >For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en.
>
> >--
>
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance Public Forum" group.>To post to this group, send email tomemphisfreet...@googlegroups.com.>To unsubscribe from this group, send email tomemphisfreethought...@googlegroups.com.
>
> >--
>
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