Legal fight over God's secular title: Newsweek

[Jason]

Jesus vs. Allah: The fight over God's secular title
by Dahlia Lithwick (Newsweek, November 19, 2009)

http://www.newsweek.com/id/223519

[Clogtowner]

Hi y'all - nice article - yes, it is a minefield. Sooner or later it
may dawn upon them that "non sectarian prayers or services" are still
religious in nature and have no place in Government. As long a
supernatural beings or spiritual references are involved, I'm
offended.

[ornamentalmind]

Having spent the first 20 years of my life there in Indy, I am aware
how easy it to see such issues in a provincial way. It took reading B.
Russell, Sarte, leaving the state and moving to a small university
town at the other end of the country etc. for me to finally become
deprogrammed. Many are not as lucky to have some of the opportunities
I had to wake up out of the trance.

On Nov 27, 5:20 pm, sudo <sud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Clogtowner has expressed my sentiments here. The crux of the article
> is:
>
> "The real problem here isn't Hamilton but the fiction, built into the
> Supreme Court's religion jurisprudence, that there can be such a thing
> as a neutral, nonsectarian religious invocation that will make
> everyone present feel both included and respected."
>
>   Christians just barely tolerate a sectarian prayer. It makes perfect
> sense just to ban all religious activity... prayer included. I could
> go for a universal "moment of silence". During which I could think
> about what's on TV that night or play pocket pool. Whatever.
>
> sudo

[sudo]

Clogtowner has expressed my sentiments here. The crux of the article
is:

"The real problem here isn't Hamilton but the fiction, built into the
Supreme Court's religion jurisprudence, that there can be such a thing
as a neutral, nonsectarian religious invocation that will make
everyone present feel both included and respected."

Christians just barely tolerate a non-sectarian prayer. It makes

[Clogtowner]

Hi y'all - Although never having been a Christian, I think I
understand what you are saying. I like the use of the word "trance."
Do you equate that term to some kind of mass hypnosis? My amateur
encroachment on self hypnosis has led me to believe that willing minds
can be manipulated, and that it is only a small step in the right
environment to make that a mass event.

[ornamentalmind]

“Hi y'all - Although never having been a Christian, I think I

understand what you are saying. I like the use of the word "trance."
Do you equate that term to some kind of mass hypnosis? My amateur
encroachment on self hypnosis has led me to believe that willing
minds
can be manipulated, and that it is only a small step in the right

environment to make that a mass event.” – clog

For clarity’s sake clog, I have never been a Christian either unless
one assigns that attribute to me based on my baptism when only a few
months old. Otherwise, I was talking about living among the ‘salt of
the earth’…those who hold many fundamental(ist) beliefs. And, we all
have unexamined beliefs. So, it is a universal quality.

In fact, it is an integral aspect of the human psyche. A child, as
they begin to interact with any culture/community will without
question take on the memes as they are fed to them. And, as such,
these unexamined beliefs are the seeds for the wisdom which can be
acquired as one examines said beliefs.

Back to trance. I find that most in a culture at any given time are
indeed hypnotized. They have blindly taken on suggestions, whether
from media, theology, books, other thinkers, non-theists, erudite and
idiots alike. So, in that sense, we all live with some sort of trance
or another at any given moment. I often use the term as a sort of
hyperbole that in fact mirrors a lot of truth in an effort at getting
the listener to wake up for a moment and just be…without all of the
beliefs and noise in their head.

So, my guess clog that my view of trance/hypnosis is much more
prevalent and pervasive than how you see it in society and/or
yourself. I find it is an everyday aspect of living and interacting
and for any topic at all one can find emperors without clothes. In
other words, it does not need to get to a Jamestown level to exist…it
can be as easy as the drive to purchase extra soft toilet paper!

> > > sudo- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Clogtowner]

Hi y'all - you have widened my concept of the word "trance" in your
original post and I can see that it could well be used in the way you
describe, but I was pinning it to religion. Over the last few weeks my
feelings on the "trance" aspect have intensified. I have noticed that
Christians (fundamental mainly) seem to have an emotional attachment
to many of the decisions they make. I feel that that their emotive
responses are far more highly tuned than those of - say atheists. I
suppose we have to try to understand differences in the psyche caused
by "religion." I am struggling with this issue. I do know it can be
extremely difficult to deprogram those infected.
I am thinking of a particular person whom I've had great respect for
over the last couple of years and who I believe made an emotional
response, as opposed to a logical assessment, when confronted by a
major decision. This has diminished my respect for him, not as a
human, but as the person that I previously thought him to be. Of
course, he is a Christian. I have to think that his response was
programmed by his emotions and that he lacked the ability (which I
have seen in him before in differing circumstances) to analyze the
problem and come up with a logical answer. This is the mass hypnosis
relating to religion that I refer to.
What is really worrying is that this hypnosis affects not only
Sundays, but every aspect of life. I"m thinking here of the many who
hold a supernatural being as more important than the President.

[ornamentalmind]

“…I have to think that his response was

programmed by his emotions and that he lacked the ability (which I
have seen in him before in differing circumstances) to analyze the
problem and come up with a logical answer. This is the mass hypnosis

relating to religion that I refer to…” – clog

When read with care, here one will find an example of a type of
hypnosis apparently not seen by the one typing.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Clogtowner]

Hi y'all - one can only assume that you are referring to critical
thinking hypnosis which I've just invented.