So, how's Myki Going?
Marts
Anyone here a regular PT user?
There's an article in the paper today comparing what they paid for this
ticketing system to what they could buy. For example, 2 state of the art combat
ships, or a probe that NASA launched into outer space or a brand new, fully
functioning children's hospital.
I'd love to know where all the money went and why it cost so much. What does it
actually get for us? How much does the hardware cost? The cost of stamping the
swipe cards, labor costs for the programmers, and so on.
These warships have some pretty hi-tech gizmos on board and most of it would be
classified, and therefore, expensive. But, it's still cheaper than a system
designed to record the balance on a psuedo credit card.
I'll bet that this info is subjected to FoI and there's probably the usual
escape arse covering clause, "commercial in confidence" that prevents any public
official, politician or contractor from being hauled into court.
Pity.
--
A Meltdown? One of those annoying buzzwords. We prefer to think of it as an unrequested fission surplus!
Daniel Bowen
> So, how's Myki going?
Mixed. Sometimes working fine, sometimes not. Pretty good on trains;
more patchy on buses and trams.
> I'd love to know where all the money went and why it cost so much. What does it
> actually get for us? How much does the hardware cost? The cost of stamping the
> swipe cards, labor costs for the programmers, and so on.
It's said that $500m of it is ten years of running costs (eg
maintenance, cards, support staff, web site etc).
We also know from today's Age article <http://www.theage.com.au/
victoria/still-not-perfect-but-myki-makes-full-debut--at-
last-20100725-10qkw.html> that they've spent $472m so far (which I
guess includes software development, hardware costs, running costs so
far).
Not clear where the remaining $378m comes in, but there is more
hardware to come (eg vending machines on trams, and more on stations).
The question will always be: why did they build their own rather than
just buying one that already works from somewhere else?
Daniel
DavidW
> On Jul 25, 8:00 pm, Marts <ma...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> So, how's Myki going?
>
> Mixed. Sometimes working fine, sometimes not. Pretty good on trains;
> more patchy on buses and trams.
I observed my first bad myki exprience this morning. A girl on a 57 tram crowded
from the train chaos was having trouble squeezing past people to get off and
switch to a 59 because it gets to the city faster (a nice tip I learned), so she
was already a bit frazzled when she got to the door. Then her myki wouldn't
touch off. She kept trying, getting more and more frustrated but refusing to
give up and pay the higher fare. Then she handed it to someone to try another
reader, but that didn't work either. Through all this people were waiting to get
on through that door. It would have taken 30 seconds or more with the tram
sitting there until this was cleared up. Eventually she decided to stay on the
tram and get to the city late (obviously really determined not to pay for myki's
incompetence). I thought she might be able to touch off on another tram and
suggested it, but she said that would be another touch-on (is this true?).
At the city I think it might have worked because she got straight off after
touching. This suggests that there might be a bad spot where she wanted to get
off, in which case everyone who gets off there might have the same problem.
woods
"DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
That's what I don't like about the system. If you can't touch off due to
faulty machinery, you get slugged the extra cost.
Daniel Bowen
> I observed my first bad myki exprience this morning. A girl on a 57 tram crowded
> from the train chaos was having trouble squeezing past people to get off and
> switch to a 59 because it gets to the city faster (a nice tip I learned), so she
> was already a bit frazzled when she got to the door. Then her myki wouldn't
> touch off. She kept trying, getting more and more frustrated but refusing to
> give up and pay the higher fare.
You don't need to touch-off trams.
The default fare on a tram is a zone 1 fare. She would have paid no
extra for not touching-off. This was the change made just recently; no
requirement to touch-off trams, unless you are travelling in the zone
1/2 overlap (which only exists on four routes, and 57 isn't one of
them) and you want the cheaper fare.
> I thought she might be able to touch off on another tram and
> suggested it, but she said that would be another touch-on (is this true?).
Yes.
This is the danger of people switching from Metcard to Myki without
really understanding it. The education needs to be better - indeed my
understanding is that line-by-line they'll get the Myki Mates out to
explain this kind of thing. But certainly right now there is
confusion.
Daniel
Daniel Bowen
> That's what I don't like about the system. If you can't touch off due to
> faulty machinery, you get slugged the extra cost.
It assumes you went to the end of the line. For trams, this is always
zone 1, so no extra cost (in almost all cases). For many buses, it's
the same zone you boarded in, so no extra cost.
For trains it assumes a zone 1+2 fare, so if that's what you would
have paid anyway, no extra cost.
Additionally, for all Myki Passes (eg Weekly/Monthly/Yearly etc) if
the trip commenced in your usual zone, it assumes that's where you
travelled, so no extra cost.
Daniel
Daniel Bowen
> touch off. She kept trying, getting more and more frustrated but refusing to
> give up and pay the higher fare.
By the way, if you ever see anybody waving their card around in front
of a reader, that's a good path to frustration city. The best way is
to hold it absolutely still, in front of the reader, until it
responds.
(That's why they changed the terminology from "swipe" to "touch".)
Daniel
werdan
> So, how's Myki going?
>
I catch the bus to work.
This is how the bus was equipped the first day after the 'official'
commencement of Myki.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/footrotdog/4832781347/
--
Reality continues to ruin my life.
DavidW
> On Jul 27, 9:50 am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>> I observed my first bad myki exprience this morning. A girl on a 57
>> tram crowded from the train chaos was having trouble squeezing past
>> people to get off and switch to a 59 because it gets to the city
>> faster (a nice tip I learned), so she was already a bit frazzled
>> when she got to the door. Then her myki wouldn't touch off. She kept
>> trying, getting more and more frustrated but refusing to give up and
>> pay the higher fare.
>
> You don't need to touch-off trams.
>
> The default fare on a tram is a zone 1 fare. She would have paid no
> extra for not touching-off. This was the change made just recently; no
> requirement to touch-off trams, unless you are travelling in the zone
> 1/2 overlap (which only exists on four routes, and 57 isn't one of
> them) and you want the cheaper fare.
Good. I guess she'll find that out soon enough.
So there can never be a difference in her case between touch-off and no
touch-off? Maybe not with zones but what about whether to charge 2-hour or
daily?
> This is the danger of people switching from Metcard to Myki without
> really understanding it. The education needs to be better - indeed my
> understanding is that line-by-line they'll get the Myki Mates out to
> explain this kind of thing. But certainly right now there is
> confusion.
Yes. There were plenty of people watching this, but none of them knew to tell
her she could just get off with no penalty.
Daniel Bowen
> Daniel Bowen wrote:
>
> > The default fare on a tram is a zone 1 fare. She would have paid no
> > extra for not touching-off. This was the change made just recently; no
> > requirement to touch-off trams, unless you are travelling in the zone
> > 1/2 overlap (which only exists on four routes, and 57 isn't one of
> > them) and you want the cheaper fare.
>
> Good. I guess she'll find that out soon enough.
>
> So there can never be a difference in her case between touch-off and no
> touch-off?
Correct.
> Maybe not with zones but what about whether to charge 2-hour or
> daily?
No, despite some in the media getting thoroughly mixed-up about it,
the default fares apply for each trip. If you do it twice and the
second time is outside the first 2-hour period, then sure, it'll
charge you a daily.
So for a stereotypical tram commuter, one trip in the morning, one in
the evening, both times touching-on but not off, you get charged 2 x
$2.94, which is exactly the same cost as when using a 10x2 hour
Metcard (or a 5 x Daily Metcard).
And just as with a 10x2 hour Metcard, you get charged for a maximum of
two 2 hour periods per day.
(On weekends the $3 cap applies.)
Daniel
Peter
news:981938c8-9524-4d2e...@m17g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
Seems a lot of changes have been made to accommodate a ticket system custom
made to work with our transport system.
:-P
Peter
> On Jul 27, 9:50 am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
>> I observed my first bad myki exprience this morning. A girl on a 57
>> tram
> crowded
>> from the train chaos was having trouble squeezing past people to get
>> off
> and
>> switch to a 59 because it gets to the city faster (a nice tip I
>> learned),
> so she
>> was already a bit frazzled when she got to the door. Then her myki
>> wouldn
> 't
>> touch off. She kept trying, getting more and more frustrated but
>> refusing
> to
>> give up and pay the higher fare.
>
> You don't need to touch-off trams.
>
> The default fare on a tram is a zone 1 fare. She would have paid no
> extra for not touching-off. This was the change made just recently; no
> requirement to touch-off trams, unless you are travelling in the zone
> 1/2 overlap (which only exists on four routes, and 57 isn't one of
> them) and you want the cheaper fare.
Seems a lot of changes have been made to accommodate a ticket system
custom made to work with our transport system.
>
>> I thought she might be able to touch off on another tram and
>> suggested it, but she said that would be another touch-on (is this
>> true?)
> .
>
> Yes.
>
> This is the danger of people switching from Metcard to Myki without
> really understanding it. The education needs to be better - indeed my
> understanding is that line-by-line they'll get the Myki Mates out to
> explain this kind of thing. But certainly right now there is
> confusion.
>
>
> Daniel
I remember a time when I gave the driver coins and he gave me a bit of
paper..... and change.
:-P
DavidW
>
> This is the danger of people switching from Metcard to Myki without
> really understanding it. The education needs to be better - indeed my
> understanding is that line-by-line they'll get the Myki Mates out to
> explain this kind of thing. But certainly right now there is
> confusion.
Further on this: the myki mantra is the 3 Ts - "Top up, touch on, touch off". We
see and hear that even more than "Moving forward". Yet it's not the case for
trams. On the 57 tram yesterday I heard a recorded announcement telling people
that myki can now be used on trams, but there was no mention that touching off
was unnecessary. I don't recall hearing recorded announcements on trams before,
but if most of them have that capability they could educate tram travellers
pretty quickly.
Daniel Bowen
> Further on this: the myki mantra is the 3 Ts - "Top up, touch on, touch off". We
> see and hear that even more than "Moving forward". Yet it's not the case for
> trams. On the 57 tram yesterday I heard a recorded announcement telling people
> that myki can now be used on trams, but there was no mention that touching off
> was unnecessary.
Part of the problem is that for years they insisted touch-off would
apply on trams (I recall first saying to them that it would be a
problem back in 2004), and then only changed their minds a few months
ago. Hence they had to pulp a whole bunch of literature which was no
longer correct, and it wouldn't surprise me if the recorded messages
they have now were also prepared some time ago and have not yet been
adjusted.
Poor planning, yet again.
Daniel
Marts
> This is how the bus was equipped the first day after the 'official'
> commencement of Myki.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/footrotdog/4832781347/
OK, what I am supposed to be looking at here?
Dingles
"Peter" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9DC2ACDF7FA26s...@69.16.185.247...
>
>
> I remember a time when I gave the driver coins and he gave me a bit of
> paper..... and change.
>
>
> :-P
I remember a time when I gave the conductor coins and (s)he gave me a bit
of paper (or, at times, cardboard) and change - and sometimes helpful
information about timetables, connections and which stop to get off for
chosen landmarks. And the driver just drove.
Daniel Bowen
I think the implication is that bus still didn't have Myki readers,
only the grey mounting points on the poles by the door.
Daniel
werdan
Yep.
Peter
>>
>>
>> I remember a time when I gave the driver coins and he gave me a bit
>> of paper..... and change.
>>
>>
>> :-P
>
> I remember a time when I gave the conductor coins and (s)he gave me a
> bit
> of paper (or, at times, cardboard) and change - and sometimes helpful
> information about timetables, connections and which stop to get off
> for chosen landmarks. And the driver just drove.
>
>
>
Yeah, that was before the experts were called to fix it.
:-P
werdan
I have the feeling that the original idea was to charge on a distance
basis and so the system was sold as such to the people making the
decisions. Once accepted, these people's bosses then turned around and
said no, we still want time-based ticketing. And so the Myki system
ended up becaming so mutated from the original idea, it looks like a
crappier version of the Metcard system it's replacing.
Mick
"Dingles" <din...@dingles.net> wrote in message
news:4c4fc8a9$0$11103$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
Ahh gone are the days of the old cry from the long extinct Conductor of
"Tickets please...."
Now it seems to be "Next Sucker please".