Vocations with Math
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Algot Runeman
Apr 27, 2013, 6:24:41 PM4/27/13
to mathf...@googlegroups.com
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/heres-how-little-math-americans-actually-use-at-work/275260/
I still want to thank Danny Kaye. "Two and two are four. Four and four
are..."
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Algot Runeman
47 Walnut Street, Natick MA 01760
508-655-8399
algot....@verizon.net
Web Site: http://www.runeman.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/algotruneman/
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I still want to thank Danny Kaye. "Two and two are four. Four and four
are..."
--
-------------------------
Algot Runeman
47 Walnut Street, Natick MA 01760
508-655-8399
algot....@verizon.net
Web Site: http://www.runeman.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/algotruneman/
sip:algot....@ekiga.net
Open Source Blog: http://mosssig.wordpress.com
MOSS SIG Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/mosssig2
kirby urner
Apr 27, 2013, 7:27:21 PM4/27/13
to mathf...@googlegroups.com
There's an implicit assumption here that if one does any mathematics
at all, it'll be "on the job".
I'm not disputing that that's true, and yet do we think people
exercising reading skills always bring those same skills to the job
place?
A lot of receptionist / desk monitor types while away the hours on the
Internet, now that their flatscreens have been hooked up, and who's to
say they're not exercising higher level reading skills than the work
place demands?
What little math this article contains has to do with "ranking" jobs
according to a four level scheme, upper and lower "white collar"
versus upper and lower "blue collar".
How does the military cast of players (thespians in and out of
theater) sort itself into this scheme, and is a math teacher in a poor
high school, barely making ends meet, a white or blue collar worker?
High school math teachers use math a lot to do their jobs, but, having
been one, I'm really unsure of their "white collar" status.
In not defining its terms, I find this article guilty of sloppy logic
and rhetoric. It's not befitting of high level whites (white collars)
to publish such material unless they're willing to back it up. Did
upper white collars include government workers of some civil service
level and above? What level? If military ranks were mapped, what
ranks?
Is a child playing a simulation game like Sims considered "white
collar"? Probably not because they're not old enough to be working.
However many computations are internalized by the player of SimCity:
tax revenues versus police and fire service costs, crime and fire
rates, real estate development rates, back to the tax base again...
What would SimCity look like if modified to simulate Henry George
economics, I ask myself. That's something for blue collar workers to
ponder, if finding "property taxes" too high. There might be another
way to go with the land value computations. This is a public policy
issue. What if citizens take an interest yet their day job does not
count?
Adults who play SimCity, or chess, or cook for large groups, within
budget. Are they using maths? Is paying taxes math? How about
steering a large truck in heavy traffic, judging arcs and curves
within inches? Kicking balls in planned parabolas, making goals.
Math can't be physical can it? The cultural gurus have rendered their
decision and anything athletic can't be "math", not geocaching, not
race car driving.
And do they count the fact that people have mortgages and credit card
expenses, if blue collar or white? Are the skills needed to pay bills
and interest, against small paychecks minus taxes, considered
"mathematical" in nature?
What about the tradeoffs involved in spending for food (healthy
organic) versus saving for heat (oil furnace) or possible medical
contingencies? Is this math, or is it too "blue collar" to count as
math? Is it only "math" when you add the gym memberships and diabetes
meds for the dog. Is "counting calories" considered math?
I'm concerned this article is pushing a tautology, which is that math
is only something one only does "for money" (wrong assumption), and
that jobs are being ranked imprecisely such that the conclusion is
foregone. One can't help but agree, once we all "do the numbers" just
the way the writer does in his head.
But why should we go along with such thinking so easily? Lots of
"white collar" jobs are just servile paper pushy things with little
responsibility attached. Sometimes the higher pay is just because
you're corrupt and are supposed to keep secrets (even some really big
money jobs are that way).
Lets not be overly impressed about pay scales. Remember those math
teachers working for a pittance. Remember military mom on her base in
Okinawa, just scraping buy in a working class ghetto, yet forced to
keep track of several hundred jet parts while juggling a family.
Optimizing her day involves computations no computer is yet capable of
tackling. Most white collar SUV drivers in DC have less than half her
capabilities, yet count themselves math-savvy because they know a
little JavaScript.
Kirby
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at all, it'll be "on the job".
I'm not disputing that that's true, and yet do we think people
exercising reading skills always bring those same skills to the job
place?
A lot of receptionist / desk monitor types while away the hours on the
Internet, now that their flatscreens have been hooked up, and who's to
say they're not exercising higher level reading skills than the work
place demands?
What little math this article contains has to do with "ranking" jobs
according to a four level scheme, upper and lower "white collar"
versus upper and lower "blue collar".
How does the military cast of players (thespians in and out of
theater) sort itself into this scheme, and is a math teacher in a poor
high school, barely making ends meet, a white or blue collar worker?
High school math teachers use math a lot to do their jobs, but, having
been one, I'm really unsure of their "white collar" status.
In not defining its terms, I find this article guilty of sloppy logic
and rhetoric. It's not befitting of high level whites (white collars)
to publish such material unless they're willing to back it up. Did
upper white collars include government workers of some civil service
level and above? What level? If military ranks were mapped, what
ranks?
Is a child playing a simulation game like Sims considered "white
collar"? Probably not because they're not old enough to be working.
However many computations are internalized by the player of SimCity:
tax revenues versus police and fire service costs, crime and fire
rates, real estate development rates, back to the tax base again...
What would SimCity look like if modified to simulate Henry George
economics, I ask myself. That's something for blue collar workers to
ponder, if finding "property taxes" too high. There might be another
way to go with the land value computations. This is a public policy
issue. What if citizens take an interest yet their day job does not
count?
Adults who play SimCity, or chess, or cook for large groups, within
budget. Are they using maths? Is paying taxes math? How about
steering a large truck in heavy traffic, judging arcs and curves
within inches? Kicking balls in planned parabolas, making goals.
Math can't be physical can it? The cultural gurus have rendered their
decision and anything athletic can't be "math", not geocaching, not
race car driving.
And do they count the fact that people have mortgages and credit card
expenses, if blue collar or white? Are the skills needed to pay bills
and interest, against small paychecks minus taxes, considered
"mathematical" in nature?
What about the tradeoffs involved in spending for food (healthy
organic) versus saving for heat (oil furnace) or possible medical
contingencies? Is this math, or is it too "blue collar" to count as
math? Is it only "math" when you add the gym memberships and diabetes
meds for the dog. Is "counting calories" considered math?
I'm concerned this article is pushing a tautology, which is that math
is only something one only does "for money" (wrong assumption), and
that jobs are being ranked imprecisely such that the conclusion is
foregone. One can't help but agree, once we all "do the numbers" just
the way the writer does in his head.
But why should we go along with such thinking so easily? Lots of
"white collar" jobs are just servile paper pushy things with little
responsibility attached. Sometimes the higher pay is just because
you're corrupt and are supposed to keep secrets (even some really big
money jobs are that way).
Lets not be overly impressed about pay scales. Remember those math
teachers working for a pittance. Remember military mom on her base in
Okinawa, just scraping buy in a working class ghetto, yet forced to
keep track of several hundred jet parts while juggling a family.
Optimizing her day involves computations no computer is yet capable of
tackling. Most white collar SUV drivers in DC have less than half her
capabilities, yet count themselves math-savvy because they know a
little JavaScript.
Kirby
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Christian Baune
Apr 27, 2013, 10:29:36 PM4/27/13
to mathf...@googlegroups.com
Hi Kirby,
Mathematics have NOTHING TO DO WITH CALCULUS, ALGEBRA OR GEOMETRY.
They go far beyond that. Arithmetic are simply a tool like Algebra and geometry.
Mathematics embrace the thinking and the comprehension.
A lot of math teachers aren't mathematicians. They are "teachers", point.
Mathematics were part of philosophy at their beginning. They grew and become "maths". There is a reason for it: Mathematics is the art of thinking.
How many "math teachers" are able to make a sustainable mathematical model?
How many of them make use of isomorphisms?
How many of them do even teach through Socratic methodology?
When you pay your bill, there is no mathematics involved.
Playing strategy games involves plenty of mathematics : one has to build a model, extrapolate, plan a response and reevaluate. (Reentrant system)
Mathematics are the art of thinking.
Computing (programming computer) is highly "math loaded". A good programmer is before anything a first class mathematician!
Actually, lot of people thinking doing Maths simply don't while others thinking they do not do it heavily!
Kind regards,
XT
Bradford Hansen-Smith
Apr 27, 2013, 10:44:37 PM4/27/13
to mathf...@googlegroups.com
Thank you Kirby for giving a description about humanity, and math. Sometimes you really get it right. When you don't get a pay check is when you figure something out about math not taught in class. Are graphs sloppy thinking or are we suppose to just look and not think, were we to think at all about the context of what they are showing us. Another case of math manipulation?
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