Kickstarter Listing Drafting

[John]

I've taken the liberty to start the initial process of setting up a
kickstarter listing. I took some bits from other hackerspace listings
that were successful and put in some reward levels.

I need feedback if the rewards are enough to cover the gifts. T
Shirts, lab coats, stickers, thank you cards, and Founder Status.

I highly suggest we make a video, people just don't want to read text.
I think Richard's Lab would be a good place to do it. We can just do a
mash up video of random members stating things about the space and the
goals we want to reach. It would be short and sweet. Any video editors
out there?

Here is the link. Please comment and help us get funded!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnecker/231359038?token=2133c27e


-John Ecker

[u]

I'm happy to kick in at the coffee level.

I also think we should offer 3D things. 
Making 3D things is one of the big attractions of all this.

Rob 

How is that beer mug design coming?

[Richard Rouse]

Sure thing ... I am curious to see if revenue gets raised. If not
maybe we can take about starting reprap coffee shop or restaurant. ...
here's one of my sources of inspiration (growing burgers):

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/02/meat-grown-in-lab-may-yield-first-test-tube-burger-by-fall/1#.T0PJAuPkybV

So we could print it ... like other types of food. This would be
crazy. You can do it with the frostruder.

I guess Germany just trademarked reprap .. sure those german dudes are
really tripping out with this stuff.

Richard

--
Richard Rouse
HTS Resources, LLC.
325 W. Washington St. #2-150
San Diego, CA 92103 USA
619-846-8291
rjdr...@htsresources.com
www.htsresources.com

[Holden Robbins]

Someone was probably already thinking along these lines but,

Is there a reason we don't add "$600 +shipping - We'll build you a Rep-Rap, test it in our lab and ship it to you" ?  Perhaps it deserves it's own kickstarter project?

I don't know about everyone else, but I for one would love to learn how to build them and would be happy to build them for other people to help raise money for the space.  I would also imagine we could negotiate some deals on parts and get some economy of scale by building them in batches which would net the group more money.

Perhaps any work people do towards building Rep-Raps to raise funds can be put towards their dues and/or something like build 10 and you can take one home.

The chance to learn how to build Rep-Raps might even be a way to attract additional members.

ps.  Pardon the pun, but my gut tells me if we can make Rep-Raps that print frosting/food, there'd probably be some places in Hillcrest that would be interested in sponsoring the maker space.

Sound like a good idea or am I missing something?

[Richard Rouse]

You are talking about a bot farm.

I am supportive but the problem is that everyone is doing this. So I
am trying to find a cohesive solution that diversifies functionality.
Along with support so that its not totally DIY

For bioscience apps ... I have piezo dispensing products that can be
integrated as an OEM. And I developed this fluorescent imaging
technique -- http://www.htsresources.com/scancomp/microarray-imaging.php
which can be configured to do things like DNA sequencing. There are
big bucks for getting biochip fab contracts and no one is doing this
yet on Reprap.

Since we live in San Diego (one of the hot beds to biotech innovation)
and I have worked with so many different biochip manufacturers ...
there is potential to realize this. But I am not there yet and am
wondering how to get there.

For basic manufacturing ... I am configuring various repstrap designs
for doing missing and laser cutting. Also we have tools here to
develop a 3D scanner. And I have make frostruder variants plus there
is a compressor here.

Anyway if you (and the others) want to build a bot farm and sell
systems. I am totally supportive of this but given you do not have
experience with hands on 3d printing and that there are so many people
doing it now..... well I hope the meetings no Saturday to move closer
this.

Richard

--

[Jeremie Santos]

I can help with the Video. I've done some video editing work in the past.

And still ahve the sw to do so

-Santos

[Richard Rouse]

Not sure if this is up the kickstarter alley but I put it out there ...

Introducing the: San Diego Reprap Cooperative

Focused on solution building, community activism:

1. Establishing local manufacturing networks
2. Building efficient solutions for managing public health
3. Improving sustainable agricultural solutions
4. Integrating clean technology (solar powered robotics, bio-energy)

[Derek]

John,
Here's my 2 cents on the Kickstarter.
1. I like Holden's idea to include a level for buying a 3-D printer
kit. (I think we need the "kit" qualifier to provide product
liability deniability for the group.)
2. I like the $3 coffee level and the other names at the various
contribution levels.
3. The $5 and $10 look nearly the same to me. The organization/cash
required to group Photo, then sign then snail mail out thank notes is
not cost effective.
3. A receipt/thank you note and logo stickers is good enough for $10.
4. Logo stickers are good and will be useful to put onto devices and
shipping from the group.
5. For $25, custom T-shirts and cost/organization for processing
contribution $25 will not cost effective. Also, $25 and $35 look
nearly the same to me.
6. An inexpensive reward for the vain contributors is that they can be
listed (or not listed) on a the history web page for MakerSpace SD as
a contributor.
7. Do you have an outline or budget of how you came up with $6,000?

> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnecker/231359038?token=2133c27e

Derek

[John]

@Rob I did sell a lot of 3d printed items on my last kickstarter but I
don't want to get stuck holding the bag alone to print all these
things. If we do that we need to budget for the space to build its own
printer and take turns making those parts.

@Holden at $600 for a fully built 3d printer and you would barely
break even. We could probably have that going as a continuous
fundraising tool. Built them sell them on eBay or to locals for about
$1400. That's what they are going for usually on eBay. (At least for
working ones with hundreds of hours of printing under its belt.)
On the credit hours for dues thing. That is common use in established
hackerspaces but we aren't there yet. We need lots of members to cover
the costs at a low dues level until we gain members. At about 30
members the scale tips and we bring in more money than we need to pay
rent.

@Derek On 1. As I mentioned above, Holden's Idea is good but I think
it’s more of a long term fundraising tool. Kickstarters like rewards
that are fulfilled quickly.
On 3 and 3. Seems like a good place for that level. What does everyone
think about the levels and rewards? (Please hold your comments until I
edit them today.)
On 4. We REALLY NEED a real logo designed. I have the pic of my gears
I've been using and Jeremie has his on the FB page but both lack that
professional touch that we need. I am considering hiring a designer
from my own pocket to make us one. I just would like feedback on what
we would like to express in the logo.
On 5. I think we can bump up the shirts to $40. I did a quick online
quote for shirts and at most, they would cost $5 each with our logo.
They get cheaper as we order more. I intended the #35 level to be a
shirt PLUS stickers. But I guess everyone can get stickers. Speaking
of stickers at the online site I checked come out to about 70 cents
each for a large (3in) circle type. Again we need a logo to put in
there. I think the stickers should be valued at $3 each which is a
nice profit margin.
On 6. I will add that reward.
On 7. I hadn't when I wrote this draft, but after you asked my math
tells me we may need more. Allow me to break it down.

-For $6000 kickstarter and Amazon take 10%= $600
-To incorporate and become a nonprofit= $800
(We need to do this to protect members from being solely
responsible for any contracts or debts the space collects.)
-For space deposit and 2 months’ rent on the books= $3000
I've based this on $1000 rent (somewhere). That only gives us 60
days to gain enough members that are willing to pay dues to cover the
rent at a self sustaining rate.
-Insurance= $600
I haven't priced this out myself but 600 seems like enough to cover
some insurance.
-Backer rewards
Stickers- $200
T Shirts- $625
Lab coats- $2065

The return on each of those levels is x4.2, x8, and x2.9 respectively.

That is only if we sell the stickers for 3, shirts for 40 and lab
coats for 125 (they cost 42 at the site I checked)

Ok I hope I got to address everyone's comments and questions. I'm off
to make changes to the listing.

The Take Away- We need a LOGO!, Are we going to raise the fundraising
goal from 6k to about 10k? I'd don't want to list reward like Repraps
or Reprap parts. Making them fast enough at high enough quality is a
major burden. Shirts and stickers we can easily order.

Ok Makers, later.

[John Ecker]

I've made some changes to the listing and added a "sponsor a maker" level. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnecker/231359038?token=2133c27e

[john redman]

For premium items; how about that 3D printed bottle opener with group logo.

 

Examples:

http://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=bottle+opener&sa=Search

 

-TheKackler

[u]

I like the printed bottle opener. 
I am still negotiating for a beer enabled space.

Lots of good ideas here.

I seem to have a vision of a common RapRap
that we could use as a standard for group learning
and printing.    John and Richard like the Max I think. 
After firming up that common base we can go off
in all directions.   Vern and I have a cute TZ Huxley.

1.  After say 50 hours or less of printing on these common
machines,    they would be
salable as  proven printers for a premium price.  
We are talking above $1000.

2.  John and Richard use the same console and firmware.
I can imagine selling USB sticks   with all the toolchain
tools on it.   Integrated and proven to work together.  
We could include a quick and videoed manual.
Again these  would go as proven tool chain sets  and
could be sold at a premium price. 

3.  There are other pieces that experience make more
valuable we could look into. 
We need to be smart and creative.

I have another bee in my bonnet.    More pie in the sky.
I have joined the KickSat kickstart and seen it become
a success.    Zac   doubled or trippled his finance goal.
So this provides an example of success.

I paid and I now have 1 and 1/2  pico-pico satellites  going up
in a year or two.     Long time frame but exciting project.
I want partners to help defray my cash outlay.
KickSat Now ask me how.

I suspect I will try to get the name of SDMakers 
as well as   IDEAS Unlimited   and all
the individuals  as part of the communication beamed
back to earth.   ie your name in Space.    
We can also
sell   names in Space as part of our promotions at some point.
Works for the Goodyear blimp.    and Qualcom Stadium.
The 1/2 Sat that we share with the LZ group in Menlo
should be programmable  able to send our long list of
names  as welll as   data from our  sensors  in space.

Core to this is that we have Richard's RepRap lab
as a resource to help us get going printing and
keep printing.    This is very valuable.

Both Richard and John are printing excellent product.
They know how.   We need to build on that.

Rob

[Richard Rouse]

Anyway if you want to mass produce Repraps then casting is the way to
go ... see Clonedel:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6788. You can make alot a batches at a time.

The silicon is a little pricey but once you have your cast you can
make alot of parts fast and no more reprap tinkering (especially
tricky for newbies).

Richard

--

[u]

John,

Very good meeting on Sat. 
Sorry we did not catch up with Richard
but  I had simply assumed there would
be others who would go there directly
and serve as a kind of place holder
until we got there.
Wrong.     My bad.

I will be working to see him during the week
to continue on his powersupply  and
some other stuff.     I predict we will get some
stuff done and Sat will come around again.

I think 3D printed objects are one of our star
attractions. 
Early on I bought some parts simply to have something
in my hands when I was talking about RepRap. 
The concept stretches some peoples imagination
and  real physical objects  help. 
So we should  expect to use your proven
3D bait and chum, but figger  out a way to get them
printed w/o keeping you up at night.  
I think this is do-able.

I copy here a note  I am drafting to Gavin
about a SDMaker RepRap Toolchain loaded USB memory stick. 
I want this for myself.
I want this for the SDMaker group.  And
I want this to use as a SDMaker money raiser. 
A little like your printed 3D objects. 

See what you think,

Rob

.............................................................................

RepRap Toolchain  USB  for SDMaker

 

Gavin,

So just trying to outline what our  SDMaker/USBboot  RepRap tools and Toolchain  USBstick

might look like.

 

We (you and me for the moment) would just gather the open source or free tools onto a stick.

Nubees who are getting started  should like to have  this source of

checked out and commented tools.   

Others might like to have the USB stick so they could

experiment without upsetting  their own  running and tuned  configuration. 

We would emphasize our  most common and successful  tool chain.  

John and Richard seem to agree on this. 

Basically  OpenSCAD, SketchUP;;  

Skeinforge  ;;

Printerrun-Pronterface;;  

Sprinter - Marlin firmware;; 

But we would include everything that we think will work.

It is largely  up to us.  

 

I envision 2 partitions. 

One with a set of tools, archives and notes.

A  second  with a USB bootable Linux  and some linux tools on it.   

Probably a whole  Linux RepRap  environment. 

Much is  TBD .      

 

The 2 partitions would make it a  double chance to work or

work around OS problems.  

 

Actually the Bootable USB idea is very powerful and attractive.

 

Done properly I think this can be a money raiser for the SDMaker group

and  might even get notice from the larger  RepRap community.    

I would think to cover the cost of the USB stick, this should  be worth

$39 or something like that to help fund SDMaker.     

We would see if we could get a nice quantity price on 4 Gb sticks.

I am seeing them  under $10, but maybe we can do even better.  

 

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: John <mrjoh...@gmail.com>

To: Makerspace San Diego <makerspace...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 3:43 am
Subject: Re: Kickstarter Listing Drafting

[James Newton]

Hi John,

Great meeting and a lot of fun chatting with all of you on Saturday.

First, this is your show and I support whatever decisions you make.
You've stepped up and that means the world.

A few ideas to take or leave as you wish:
1. at the Mad-Scientist level throw in a cheap pair of eye protection
goggles.

2. on the sponsor a maker level, keep in mind you may find yourself on
the hook for those monthly messages...

3. maybe reduce founder status to $1000?

4. Add a reward level that gets a 3d printed object, or perhaps 2
levels, one for a generic object and another customized to the backers
name. Be sure to include the cost of printing that object so you are
getting paid for making it. I see a few others have suggested the same
and I agree that a printed object would be cool. So would a cut or
milled object. Wish my little CNC machine was up and running...

5. I'm willing to chip in some stepper motor drivers kits at below
cost. So a set of Linisteppers at about $17 each or SLAms at $20 each.
May be of use to those who are interested in CNC control of a Mill or
Lathe. Assuming a set of 3 (XYZ) then that would be a cost of ~$50 for
the Linisteppers (normally $90 so ~$30 for the group after fees?) Um..
Is there a way to limit the number of rewards offered at a specific
level? 'cause that would kill me if more than a few people took me up
on it.
http://massmind.ecomorder.com

6. Anyone else willing / able to kick in some "made stuff" if your
cost is covered?

P.S. That RepRapToolchain USB might be a cool reward... real value,
and cheap to duplicate and sell... I'd almost be interested... but
it's open source code so you can legally sell it? I think you can sell
the distribution for whatever people will pay, as long as you also
make it available as a free download. (?)

--
James Newton
http://www.massmind.org

[Ron Garrison]

James,

Re: #6 I'd be happy to help out with the "made stuff" if you are willing to accept a non-purist approach and allow it to be printed in ABS on a MakerBot. I can even kick in a couple of Kg of Black ABS without compensation.

Re: the Open Source redistribution, you are correct that you can "sell" it for whatever you want so long as you point people to a location where they can download it for themselves if they want. You don't even need to host it yourself, just provide a link to it somewhere. RedHat has built a very successful business doing just that.

Best Regards,
Ron Garrison

[James Newton]

Hey Ron, sounds great! Who does anything that IS purist? LOL...

A printed cover for a USB FLASH drive loaded with a bootable
environment for makers sounds like a really good reward to me. I'd
consider buying that myself!

--
James.

On Feb 27, 8:10 pm, Ron Garrison <ron.garrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
> James,
>
> Re: #6 I'd be happy to help out with the "made stuff" if you are willing to
> accept a non-purist approach and allow it to be printed in ABS on a
> MakerBot. I can even kick in a couple of Kg of Black ABS without
> compensation.
>
> Re: the Open Source redistribution, you are correct that you can "sell" it
> for whatever you want so long as you point people to a location where they
> can download it for themselves if they want. You don't even need to host it
> yourself, just provide a link to it somewhere. RedHat has built a very
> successful business doing just that.
>
> Best Regards,
> Ron Garrison
>