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From: Joel Chia <j...@revivalstudios.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 23:30:44 +1000
Message-ID: <CALL_naUy0rufbeEzXyXPatcdtbc1L8_ODF__SubLWRfLYMO...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 5D (Was Re: [MakerGear] Re: Mosaic Questions...)
To: makergear@googlegroups.com
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--90e6ba212407ebc16304ab4052ec
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It probably means that it's trickier to get your profile exactly right. And
changing to change a value means that you have to change 3 or 4 more values
elsewhere to accommodate the first change.
I'm not sure what electronics you're using...
As for firmware, I asked this question in the MB google groups re Gen4 and
found out that the MB firmware has volumetric support... just need to change
your machine settings.
http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/thread/f8c6c9f9328469f8#
If you're using Gen3, Teacup supposedly works on Gen3
https://github.com/triffid/Teacup_Firmware
Cheers,
-Joel
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Owen M Collins <ccstudio.o...@gmail.com>wrote:
> So as someone setting up their Makergear Stepper Plastruder on a MB
> Cupcake, are you saying that I won't get the full potential using the MB
> firmwares, or those Firmwares that support volumetric Extrusion in
> conjunction with the newest releases of SF make the best print quality?
>
> I have found this discussion really interesting by the way, thanks.
>
> O.
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2011, at 3:22 AM, Mike Payson wrote:
>
> Ok, so 5D is not really 5D, but you call it that for historical reasons,
> and volumetric 5D is, in effect, using E steps to calculate the volume of
> plastic extruded... Ok, fair enough.
>
> But why call it volumetric 5d? Why not just call it volumetric and be done
> with it, and put the antiquated, inaccurate and confusing term to rest? I
> suppose that other volume measurement systems are possible, but to the best
> of my knowledge, no other volumetric systems exist at present, so you are
> not really introducing any ambiguity by dropping the term, and in fact you
> are clearing up a consistent source of confusion since the RepRap 5D
> firmware was very different in every possible way except that it also used
> e-steps to calculate volume.
>
> FWIW, I also disagree that the term "5d" stuck. It is basically never used
> in the IRC community. There are modern FW's that support acceleration and
> volumetric extrusion (basically all the recent ones, but mainly Sprinter,
> Teacup and SJFW), older ones that are largely obsolete but that are still
> volumetric (Mainly Tonokip, but almost no one is using these anymore), and
> all the other obsolete stuff that no one cares about (5d, Makerbot FW's,
> etc). Since virtually everyone is using a volumetric FW at this point, there
> is little point in the distinction. Virtually the only time the term even
> comes up is when we explain to people why they need to upgrade to SF40+.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "5D" is one of those things where the nomenclature stuck, even after the
>> thing being referred to changed enough to make it inaccurate.
>>
>> Generally, when people refer to 5D anymore, they really do just mean X, Y,
>> Z, and E. Yes, the original 5 Ds included acceleration, but that is rarely
>> used any more. At least, not in that simplistic form.
>>
>> "Volumetric 5D" refers to using E as an axis instead of RPM values, and
>> calculating the E based on volume of filament needed. I know because I
>> coined the term.
>>
>> Some firmwares don't support E values, or "5D." Others don't support RPM
>> values. We are currently divided.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Mike Payson <m...@dawgdayz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nothing supports 5D anymore. 5D was not a real thing, it was a badly
>> implemented hack where "acceleration" was treated as an axis. It was only
>> ever supported by RepRapHost and the RepRap 5D firmware. All other firmwares
>> are 4D (XYZ and E-- though some support more than one E, so
>> technically could be viewed as nD). Some 4D firmwares support acceleration
>> and others don't, but they are still all 4D.
>>
>> Volumetric has little to do with the Firmware. It is related to how the
>> model is skeined, not how the firmware works. Because you need to be able to
>> precisely control the extrude speed it does require a stepper extruder, but
>> Gen3 with a stepper extruder was perfectly capable of doing Volumetric.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:17 AM, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > Except when he is a butt.
>>>
>>> :P
>>>
>>> I'd be pretty surprised if Mosaic didn't support volumetric 5D, which
>>> takes away a lot of the mystery of skeinforge. Measure you right filament
>>> diameter, pick whatever feed/WoT/layer-height values you want and it just
>>> does the right thing..
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div>It probably means that it's trickier to get your profile exactly r=
ight. And changing to change a value means that you have to change 3 or 4 m=
ore values elsewhere to accommodate the first change.</div><div>I'm not=
sure what electronics you're using...</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for firmware, I asked this question in the MB google=
groups re Gen4 and found out that the MB firmware has volumetric support..=
. just need to change your machine settings.<br clear=3D"all"></div><div>
<a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/thread/f8c=
6c9f9328469f8#">http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/threa=
d/f8c6c9f9328469f8#</a></div><div><br></div><div>If you're using Gen3, =
Teacup supposedly works on Gen3</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://github.com/triffid/Teacup_Firmware">https://github.=
com/triffid/Teacup_Firmware</a></div><div><br></div>Cheers,<br>-Joel<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Owen M=
Collins <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ccstudio.o...@gmail.com">c=
cstudio.o...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">So as someone setting up their Makergea=
r Stepper Plastruder on a MB Cupcake, are you saying that I won't get t=
he full potential using the MB firmwares, or those Firmwares that support v=
olumetric Extrusion in conjunction with the newest releases of SF make=A0th=
e best print quality?<div>
<br></div><div>I have=A0found this discussion really interesting by the way=
, thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>O.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><di=
v>On Aug 24, 2011, at 3:22 AM, Mike Payson wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=
=3D"cite">
Ok, so 5D is not really 5D, but you call it that for historical reasons, an=
d volumetric 5D is, in effect, using E steps to calculate the volume of pla=
stic extruded...=A0Ok, fair enough.=A0<div><br></div><div>But why call it v=
olumetric 5d? Why not just call it volumetric and be done with it, and put =
the=A0antiquated,=A0inaccurate=A0and confusing term to rest? I suppose that=
other volume measurement systems are possible, but to the best of my knowl=
edge, no other volumetric systems exist at present, so you are not really=
=A0introducing=A0any ambiguity by dropping the term, and in fact you are cl=
earing up a consistent source of confusion since the RepRap 5D firmware was=
very different in every possible way except that it also used e-steps to c=
alculate volume.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>FWIW, I also disagree that the term "5d" stuc=
k. It is basically never used in the IRC community. There are modern FW'=
;s that support acceleration and volumetric extrusion (basically all the re=
cent ones, but mainly Sprinter, Teacup and SJFW), older ones that are large=
ly obsolete but that are still volumetric (Mainly Tonokip, but almost no on=
e is using these anymore), and all the other obsolete stuff that no one car=
es about (5d, Makerbot FW's, etc). Since virtually everyone is using a =
volumetric FW at this point, there is little point in the distinction. Virt=
ually the only time the term even comes up is when we explain to people why=
they need to upgrade to SF40+.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rob Giseburt <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:giseb...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">giseb...@gmail.com</a>>=
</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>"5D" is one of those things where t=
he nomenclature stuck, even after the thing being referred to changed enoug=
h to make it inaccurate.</div><div><br></div><div>Generally, when people re=
fer to 5D anymore, they really do just mean X, Y, Z, and E. Yes, the origin=
al 5 Ds included acceleration, but that is rarely used any more. At least, =
not in that simplistic form.</div>
<div><br></div><div>"Volumetric 5D" refers to using E as an axis =
instead of RPM values, and calculating the E based on volume of filament ne=
eded. I know because I coined the term.</div><div><br></div><div>Some firmw=
ares don't support E values, or "5D." Others don't suppor=
t RPM values. We are currently divided.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>=A0 -Rob</div></font></div><div><div><div><br>On Aug 23=
, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Mike Payson <<a href=3D"mailto:m...@dawgdayz.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">m...@dawgdayz.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>Nothing supports 5D anymore. 5D was not a real thing, it was a badly i=
mplemented hack where "acceleration" was treated as an axis. It w=
as only ever supported by RepRapHost and the RepRap 5D firmware. All other =
firmwares are 4D (XYZ and E-- though some=A0support=A0more than one E, so t=
echnically=A0could=A0be viewed as nD). Some 4D firmwares support accelerati=
on and others don't, but they are still all 4D.<div>
<br></div><div>Volumetric has little to do with the Firmware. It is related=
to how the model is skeined, not how the firmware works. Because you need =
to be able to precisely control the extrude speed it does require a stepper=
extruder, but Gen3 with a stepper extruder was perfectly capable of doing =
Volumetric.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:17 AM, ddurant <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dduran...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>dduran...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>>=A0 Except when he is a butt.=A0=A0=A0=A0 </div><div>=A0</div=
></div><div>:P</div><div>=A0</div><div>I'd be pretty surprised if Mosai=
c didn't support volumetric 5D, which takes away a=A0lot of the mystery=
of skeinforge. Measure you right filament diameter, pick whatever feed/WoT=
/layer-height values you want and it just does the right thing.. </div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
--90e6ba212407ebc16304ab4052ec--
Message from discussion 5D (Was Re: [MakerGear] Re: Mosaic Questions...)
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