Tomorrow" Received: by 10.14.176.196 with SMTP id b44mr18834460eem.4.1346783855425; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: makergear@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.209.195 with SMTP id s43ls2575385eeo.5.gmail; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.214.69 with SMTP id b45mr18836358eep.2.1346783854486; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.214.69 with SMTP id b45mr18836356eep.2.1346783854467; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from mail-ey0-f171.google.com (mail-ey0-f171.google.com [209.85.215.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v3si22777347eep.1.2012.09.04.11.37.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gschwar...@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.171; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gschwar...@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gschwar...@gmail.com; dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received: by eaah11 with SMTP id h11so2142147eaa.30 for ; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=1ma/VHfAMHK5Y8H8eQ/SffEvYbHMBNDk68mVu4fv7FA=; b=y4aMc10f1az9VFSpBRfIqlr/DZoOtA9JK8NHRDeki0IWd4F825nP9yiPirNzCWEzhU 1tI8ilIgBjx21jrfS+duRIA+jQGONqG8IMYqF1wVodjZBQiKxKS37B6IMTKGTczPLkXx IqysAa8JH2IfonHOkDMQm2DttkOZVe6Nk1h9/oouVjbvpm40AR22M59j08CfTGW9/3ZV vZ0fp1knt8IXeuTC/t8p2rPfYApRYOG9ZFOpG4zR9mRl3ecFLZ+pmo1ZWwmqEZwPpxRt JYs9NRuzM+7Bv/lxe7/aJkcVOw3kQ6fQzTwc0SuuUfTSEiyyERZTyBAOuEj4uDZv6NL4 uWGw== Received: by 10.14.179.200 with SMTP id h48mr27510343eem.12.1346783854355; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.186.6 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:37:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8ea9f7e1-8511-4168-a797-23714fe5570d@googlegroups.com> From: Gary Schwartz Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:37:14 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [MakerGear] Shower Glass Print Bed To: makergear@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b603f743a666904c8e48dd8 --047d7b603f743a666904c8e48dd8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Foamcore: good thought. Will it withstand 110C? I'm considering 1/2" blue rigid wall insulation. Gary Make Better Things Make Things Better On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John Yang wrote: > I insulated the bottom of the hbp with some cardboard covered in metal > vent foil tape. The shiny metal should help rediate back a little > heat, and the air pockets of the carboard give a decent insulation vs > direct physical contact to the plywood. you could use any insulation > below and help the heat go only where you want it. I've got some > foamcore set aside that I was going to try the next time I have to > tear down the bed for maintenance. > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Gary Schwartz > wrote: > > Hmmmm. Now on my list of experiments is: Aluminum plate scuffed up a bit > > with fine grit paper on random orbital sander, then a thin application of > > "ABS paint". > > > > > > > > While on the subject of heat transfer (at least peripherally), I think we > > lose a significant amount of the heat produced by the PCB to the > > surroundings. For example, the bottom of my plywood build platform is > hot > > when my HBP is at 105. This means that I'm losing heat there. If the > edges > > of our build surface are warm/hot, we're losing heat there as well. > > Reducing these heat losses means faster warm-up, and more uniform > > temperature across the surface. And, as mentioned in earlier post, > sanding > > off the lettering on the HBP will speed up surface warming. > > > > When my build surface is REPORTED as 105 C, that's what the thermister > > reads. My IR temp gage says 100C at center of build surface, and it > falls > > off to ~ 90C at edges. > > > > Gary > > Make Better Things > > Make Things Better > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, John Yang > wrote: > >> > >> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th > >> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about > >> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to > >> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop > >> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it > >> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put > >> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about > >> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread > >> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even > >> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you > >> can get. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart > > >> wrote: > >> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience... > >> > > >> > On Sep 4, 2012 11:42 AM, "Gary Schwartz" > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without > >> >> Kapton, > >> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS > paint, > >> >> HBP > >> >> alone, and not happy with any. > >> >> > >> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs > a > >> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided > by > >> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". > >> >> Some > >> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had > >> >> trouble > >> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. > >> >> Also, > >> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent > results. > >> >> So > >> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass. > >> >> > >> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, > glass, & > >> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point > >> >> to > >> >> describe it as "Matte" glass. > >> >> > >> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print > lifted > >> >> at > >> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of > home-brew > >> >> "ABS > >> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the > >> >> bed is > >> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, > >> >> twisting, > >> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto > blade > >> >> ... > >> >> can't budge it. > >> >> > >> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb. > >> >> > >> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS > >> >> paint > >> >> on the surface. > >> >> > >> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse > >> >> 23791). > >> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing > >> >> process > >> >> tries its best to break it loose. > >> >> > >> >> I highly recommend Matte shower glass. > > > > > --047d7b603f743a666904c8e48dd8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Foamcore: good thought.=C2=A0 = Will it withstand 110C?
I'm considering 1/2" blue rigid wall insulation.
<= p>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Gary
= Make Better Things
Make Things Better

=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0



On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John Yan= g <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
I insulated the bottom of the hbp with some cardboard covered in metal
vent foil tape. =C2=A0The shiny metal should help rediate back a little
heat, and the air pockets of the carboard give a decent insulation vs
direct physical contact to the plywood. =C2=A0you could use any insulation<= br> below and help the heat go only where you want it. =C2=A0I've got some<= br> foamcore set aside that I was going to try the next time I have to
tear down the bed for maintenance.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm. =C2=A0Now on my list of experiments is: Aluminum plate scuffed = up a bit
> with fine grit paper on random orbital sander, then a thin application= of
> "ABS paint".
>
>
>
> While on the subject of heat transfer (at least peripherally), I think= we
> lose a significant amount of the heat produced by the PCB to the
> surroundings. =C2=A0For example, the bottom of my plywood build platfo= rm is hot
> when my HBP is at 105. =C2=A0This means that I'm losing heat there= . =C2=A0If the edges
> of our build surface are warm/hot, we're losing heat there as well= .
> Reducing these heat losses means faster warm-up, and more uniform
> temperature across the surface. =C2=A0And, as mentioned in earlier pos= t, sanding
> off the lettering on the HBP will speed up surface warming.
>
> When my build surface is REPORTED as 105 C, that's what the thermi= ster
> reads. =C2=A0My IR temp gage says 100C at center of build surface, and= it falls
> off to ~ 90C at edges.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gary
> Make Better Things
> Make Things Better
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). =C2=A0I use it on top of= a 1/8th
>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. =C2=A0The bed rises = to about
>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid = to
>> the bed for abs. =C2=A0To remove I use a putty knife to slide unde= r and pop
>> it off. =C2=A0I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putt= y knife so it
>> slides in easily. =C2=A0And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip= and put
>> a new one on. =C2=A0And the aluminium plate means I don't worr= y about
>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat sp= read
>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed e= ven
>> with light breezes. =C2=A0The cost is very low for the high perfor= mance you
>> can get.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...<= br> >> >
>> > On Sep 4, 2012 11:42 AM, "Gary Schwartz" <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side dow= n) with & without
>> >> Kapton,
>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with &= amp; without Kapton & ABS paint,
>> >> HBP
>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>> >>
>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed o= bject needs a
>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. =C2=A0= Mechanical provided by
>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a &q= uot;finger hold".
>> >> Some
>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror.= =C2=A0I had
>> >> trouble
>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "= grippy" surface.
>> >> Also,
>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsi= stent results.
>> >> So
>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> >>
>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles = tile, glass, &
>> >> all sorts of stuff. =C2=A0The man who cut the piece for m= e made it a point
>> >> to
>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> >>
>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... th= e print lifted
>> >> at
>> >> the ends. =C2=A0At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light ap= plication of home-brew
>> >> "ABS
>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the resu= lts. =C2=A0As long as the
>> >> bed is
>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. =C2=A0I've trie= d using pliers,
>> >> twisting,
>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nose= d X-Acto blade
>> >> ...
>> >> can't budge it.
>> >>
>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> >>
>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a b= it of ABS
>> >> paint
>> >> on the surface.
>> >>
>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thin= giverse
>> >> 23791).
>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and t= he printing
>> >> process
>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
>> >>
>> >> I highly recommend Matte shower glass.
>
>

--047d7b603f743a666904c8e48dd8--