I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without Kapton, & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, HBP alone, and not happy with any.
Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". Some have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had trouble finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. Also, inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. So I gambled $13.00 on a piece of *Matte Shower Glass*.
I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, & all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point to describe it as "Matte" glass.
My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted at the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew "ABS Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the bed is hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, twisting, turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade ... can't budge it.
After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS paint on the surface.
An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse 23791). These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing process tries its best to break it loose.
> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without Kapton,
> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, HBP
> alone, and not happy with any.
> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". Some
> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had trouble
> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. Also,
> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. So
> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of *Matte Shower Glass*.
> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, &
> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point to
> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted at
> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew "ABS
> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the bed is
> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, twisting,
> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade ...
> can't budge it.
> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS paint
> on the surface.
> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse 23791).
> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
> process tries its best to break it loose.
I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
can get.
>> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without Kapton,
>> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, HBP
>> alone, and not happy with any.
>> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
>> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
>> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". Some
>> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had trouble
>> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. Also,
>> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. So
>> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, &
>> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point to
>> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted at
>> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew "ABS
>> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the bed is
>> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, twisting,
>> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade ...
>> can't budge it.
>> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS paint
>> on the surface.
>> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse 23791).
>> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing process
>> tries its best to break it loose.
Yes, I've tried Blue Painters Tape on glass, but not on aluminum plate. Not happy with it on glass. If matte glass fails me, I'll give aluminum a try. I can see where its thermal properties would be a plus. If you want even better heat transfer, use fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the lettering on the PCB. This essentially eliminates the air between the PCB & the Al plate.
On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote: > I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th > inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about > 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to > the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop > it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it > slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put > a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about > cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread > and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even > with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you > can get.
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com<javascript:>> > wrote: > > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without > Kapton, > >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, > HBP > >> alone, and not happy with any.
> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a > >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by > >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". > Some > >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had > trouble > >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. > Also, > >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. > So > >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, & > >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point > to > >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted > at > >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew > "ABS > >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the > bed is > >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, > twisting, > >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade > ... > >> can't budge it.
> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS > paint > >> on the surface.
> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse > 23791). > >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing > process > >> tries its best to break it loose.
On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th > inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about > 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to > the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop > it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it > slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put > a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about > cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread > and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even > with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you > can get.
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com<javascript:>> > wrote: > > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without > Kapton, > >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, > HBP > >> alone, and not happy with any.
> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a > >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by > >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". > Some > >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had > trouble > >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. > Also, > >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. > So > >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, & > >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point > to > >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted > at > >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew > "ABS > >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the > bed is > >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, > twisting, > >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade > ... > >> can't budge it.
> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS > paint > >> on the surface.
> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse > 23791). > >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing > process > >> tries its best to break it loose.
One thing that I have found is it really matters what acetone and or rubbing alcohol you are using. Best to get it at a painting supply store and not a pharmacy. CVS 91% rubbing alcohol was a complete fail.
> Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> On Sep 4, 2012 11:42 AM, "Gary Schwartz" <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without Kapton, & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint, HBP alone, and not happy with any.
> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". Some have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had trouble finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. Also, inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results. So I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, & all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point to describe it as "Matte" glass.
> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted at the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew "ABS Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the bed is hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, twisting, turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade ... can't budge it.
> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS paint on the surface.
> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse 23791). These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing process tries its best to break it loose.
I have my hbp oriented so that the traces are up and next to the
aluminium plate. I've also applied heat transfer paste between the
plate and the hbp to make heat transfer better. I used the sliver
heat paste used for cpu heat sink attachment. In the orientation that
I have mine built, I would not take sandpaper to remove the
soldermask. Even when the traces are down, I think removing the
soldermask and/or silkscreen might be a bad idea since I'm not sure if
the large copper pour on the back side of the hbp is connected to
ground or not. The traces right next to the alu plate with the heat
transfer paste inbetween make for fast heating.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've tried Blue Painters Tape on glass, but not on aluminum plate. Not
> happy with it on glass. If matte glass fails me, I'll give aluminum a try.
> I can see where its thermal properties would be a plus. If you want even
> better heat transfer, use fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the lettering on
> the PCB. This essentially eliminates the air between the PCB & the Al
> plate.
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
>> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
>> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
>> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
>> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
>> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
>> can get.
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
>> >> Kapton,
>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint,
>> >> HBP
>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
>> >> Some
>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
>> >> trouble
>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
>> >> Also,
>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results.
>> >> So
>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, &
>> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
>> >> to
>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted
>> >> at
>> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew
>> >> "ABS
>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
>> >> bed is
>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
>> >> twisting,
>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade
>> >> ...
>> >> can't budge it.
>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
>> >> paint
>> >> on the surface.
>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
>> >> 23791).
>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
>> >> process
>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
Hmmmm. Now on my list of experiments is: Aluminum plate scuffed up a bit
with fine grit paper on random orbital sander, then a thin application of
"ABS paint".
While on the subject of heat transfer (at least peripherally), I think we
lose a significant amount of the heat produced by the PCB to the
surroundings. For example, the bottom of my plywood build platform is hot
when my HBP is at 105. This means that I'm losing heat there. If the
edges of our build surface are warm/hot, we're losing heat there as well.
Reducing these heat losses means faster warm-up, and more uniform
temperature across the surface. And, as mentioned in earlier post, sanding
off the lettering on the HBP will speed up surface warming.
When my build surface is REPORTED as 105 C, that's what the thermister
reads. My IR temp gage says 100C at center of build surface, and it falls
off to ~ 90C at edges.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
> can get.
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
> Kapton,
> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint,
> HBP
> >> alone, and not happy with any.
> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
> Some
> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had trouble
> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
> Also,
> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results.
> So
> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, &
> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point to
> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted
> at
> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew
> "ABS
> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
> bed is
> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
> twisting,
> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade
> ...
> >> can't budge it.
> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS paint
> >> on the surface.
> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse 23791).
> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
> process
> >> tries its best to break it loose.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Rayne Lang <raynel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, do you guys use BPT right on top of your heated build platform ever?
> I dont wanna do this and have my tape stick and never come off
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
>> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
>> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
>> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
>> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
>> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
>> can get.
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
>> Kapton,
>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS
>> paint, HBP
>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
>> Some
>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
>> trouble
>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
>> Also,
>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent
>> results. So
>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass,
>> &
>> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
>> to
>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print
>> lifted at
>> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew
>> "ABS
>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
>> bed is
>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
>> twisting,
>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto
>> blade ...
>> >> can't budge it.
>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
>> paint
>> >> on the surface.
>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
>> 23791).
>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
>> process
>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
I insulated the bottom of the hbp with some cardboard covered in metal
vent foil tape. The shiny metal should help rediate back a little
heat, and the air pockets of the carboard give a decent insulation vs
direct physical contact to the plywood. you could use any insulation
below and help the heat go only where you want it. I've got some
foamcore set aside that I was going to try the next time I have to
tear down the bed for maintenance.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm. Now on my list of experiments is: Aluminum plate scuffed up a bit
> with fine grit paper on random orbital sander, then a thin application of
> "ABS paint".
> While on the subject of heat transfer (at least peripherally), I think we
> lose a significant amount of the heat produced by the PCB to the
> surroundings. For example, the bottom of my plywood build platform is hot
> when my HBP is at 105. This means that I'm losing heat there. If the edges
> of our build surface are warm/hot, we're losing heat there as well.
> Reducing these heat losses means faster warm-up, and more uniform
> temperature across the surface. And, as mentioned in earlier post, sanding
> off the lettering on the HBP will speed up surface warming.
> When my build surface is REPORTED as 105 C, that's what the thermister
> reads. My IR temp gage says 100C at center of build surface, and it falls
> off to ~ 90C at edges.
> Gary
> Make Better Things
> Make Things Better
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
>> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
>> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
>> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
>> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
>> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
>> can get.
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
>> >> Kapton,
>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS paint,
>> >> HBP
>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
>> >> Some
>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
>> >> trouble
>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
>> >> Also,
>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent results.
>> >> So
>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, &
>> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
>> >> to
>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print lifted
>> >> at
>> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew
>> >> "ABS
>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
>> >> bed is
>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
>> >> twisting,
>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto blade
>> >> ...
>> >> can't budge it.
>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
>> >> paint
>> >> on the surface.
>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
>> >> 23791).
>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
>> >> process
>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
I agree that no sanding should be done with plate oriented as your's is.
I also stand by my recommendation to sand it if lettering is on top side.
I've had no problem with my sanded HBP, and I was pretty aggressive. I see
some copper at the edges.
I've done a lot of digging on heat transfer, and become convinced that
heat-conducting paste is effective because it displaces the air between the
surfaces. The best heat transfer occurs when the two surfaces are in
intimate contact. When I tilt my glass up ~ 30 degrees, he HBP follows
as though it were glued, then will drop off.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have my hbp oriented so that the traces are up and next to the
> aluminium plate. I've also applied heat transfer paste between the
> plate and the hbp to make heat transfer better. I used the sliver
> heat paste used for cpu heat sink attachment. In the orientation that
> I have mine built, I would not take sandpaper to remove the
> soldermask. Even when the traces are down, I think removing the
> soldermask and/or silkscreen might be a bad idea since I'm not sure if
> the large copper pour on the back side of the hbp is connected to
> ground or not. The traces right next to the alu plate with the heat
> transfer paste inbetween make for fast heating.
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Yes, I've tried Blue Painters Tape on glass, but not on aluminum plate.
> Not
> > happy with it on glass. If matte glass fails me, I'll give aluminum a
> try.
> > I can see where its thermal properties would be a plus. If you want even
> > better heat transfer, use fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the lettering
> on
> > the PCB. This essentially eliminates the air between the PCB & the Al
> > plate.
> > On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
> >> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
> >> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
> >> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
> >> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
> >> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
> >> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
> >> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
> >> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
> >> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
> >> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
> >> can get.
> >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> >> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
> >> >> Kapton,
> >> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS
> paint,
> >> >> HBP
> >> >> alone, and not happy with any.
> >> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs
> a
> >> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided
> by
> >> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
> >> >> Some
> >> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
> >> >> trouble
> >> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
> >> >> Also,
> >> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent
> results.
> >> >> So
> >> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> >> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile,
> glass, &
> >> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
> >> >> to
> >> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> >> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print
> lifted
> >> >> at
> >> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of
> home-brew
> >> >> "ABS
> >> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
> >> >> bed is
> >> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
> >> >> twisting,
> >> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto
> blade
> >> >> ...
> >> >> can't budge it.
> >> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> >> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
> >> >> paint
> >> >> on the surface.
> >> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
> >> >> 23791).
> >> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
> >> >> process
> >> >> tries its best to break it loose.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I insulated the bottom of the hbp with some cardboard covered in metal
> vent foil tape. The shiny metal should help rediate back a little
> heat, and the air pockets of the carboard give a decent insulation vs
> direct physical contact to the plywood. you could use any insulation
> below and help the heat go only where you want it. I've got some
> foamcore set aside that I was going to try the next time I have to
> tear down the bed for maintenance.
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hmmmm. Now on my list of experiments is: Aluminum plate scuffed up a bit
> > with fine grit paper on random orbital sander, then a thin application of
> > "ABS paint".
> > While on the subject of heat transfer (at least peripherally), I think we
> > lose a significant amount of the heat produced by the PCB to the
> > surroundings. For example, the bottom of my plywood build platform is
> hot
> > when my HBP is at 105. This means that I'm losing heat there. If the
> edges
> > of our build surface are warm/hot, we're losing heat there as well.
> > Reducing these heat losses means faster warm-up, and more uniform
> > temperature across the surface. And, as mentioned in earlier post,
> sanding
> > off the lettering on the HBP will speed up surface warming.
> > When my build surface is REPORTED as 105 C, that's what the thermister
> > reads. My IR temp gage says 100C at center of build surface, and it
> falls
> > off to ~ 90C at edges.
> > Gary
> > Make Better Things
> > Make Things Better
> > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, John Yang <lj.johny...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
> >> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
> >> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
> >> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
> >> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
> >> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
> >> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
> >> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
> >> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
> >> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
> >> can get.
> >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
> >> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
> >> >> Kapton,
> >> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS
> paint,
> >> >> HBP
> >> >> alone, and not happy with any.
> >> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs
> a
> >> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided
> by
> >> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
> >> >> Some
> >> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
> >> >> trouble
> >> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
> >> >> Also,
> >> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent
> results.
> >> >> So
> >> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
> >> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile,
> glass, &
> >> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
> >> >> to
> >> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
> >> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print
> lifted
> >> >> at
> >> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of
> home-brew
> >> >> "ABS
> >> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
> >> >> bed is
> >> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
> >> >> twisting,
> >> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto
> blade
> >> >> ...
> >> >> can't budge it.
> >> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
> >> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
> >> >> paint
> >> >> on the surface.
> >> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
> >> >> 23791).
> >> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
> >> >> process
> >> >> tries its best to break it loose.
Get a tube of thermal paste, the kind used for mating CPUs to fans. That
would eliminate any pockets between the HBT and the AL, it is a mess on
fingers but wipes off cleanly if you change your mind.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've tried Blue Painters Tape on glass, but not on aluminum plate.
> Not happy with it on glass. If matte glass fails me, I'll give aluminum a
> try. I can see where its thermal properties would be a plus. If you want
> even better heat transfer, use fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the
> lettering on the PCB. This essentially eliminates the air between the PCB
> & the Al plate.
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th
>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about
>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to
>> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop
>> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it
>> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put
>> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about
>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread
>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even
>> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you
>> can get.
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without
>> Kapton,
>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS
>> paint, HBP
>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs a
>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided by
>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold".
>> Some
>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had
>> trouble
>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface.
>> Also,
>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent
>> results. So
>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass,
>> &
>> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point
>> to
>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print
>> lifted at
>> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of home-brew
>> "ABS
>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the
>> bed is
>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers,
>> twisting,
>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto
>> blade ...
>> >> can't budge it.
>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS
>> paint
>> >> on the surface.
>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse
>> 23791).
>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing
>> process
>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
So sad you've got the issues. Just about anything works well. Alum., glass, copper. I understand ceramic tile, steel.... I've used OEM HBP, OEM belt, painters (bpt) tape on copper, bpt on glass, kapton on belt and copper. Temp is important. And what is often not correctly done is to level the bed and to adjust the height. I use a sheet of printer paper or a stcking under the print head at the point it lightly drags as I pull it out then set the Zheight. I also use a dial gauge for leveling the bed to roughly .05mm or better across the entire surface. I've not used the ABS slurry....
Sounds really expensive. I would personally try to remove the lettering before messing with thermal paste. That stuff is supposed to help with surface imperfections, not physical gaps.
On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:05:06 PM UTC-7, David Buggs wrote:
> Get a tube of thermal paste, the kind used for mating CPUs to fans. That > would eliminate any pockets between the HBT and the AL, it is a mess on > fingers but wipes off cleanly if you change your mind.
> Buggs
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Gary Schwartz <gschw...@gmail.com<javascript:> > > wrote:
>> Yes, I've tried Blue Painters Tape on glass, but not on aluminum plate. >> Not happy with it on glass. If matte glass fails me, I'll give aluminum a >> try. I can see where its thermal properties would be a plus. If you want >> even better heat transfer, use fine wet/dry sandpaper to remove the >> lettering on the PCB. This essentially eliminates the air between the PCB >> & the Al plate.
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:53:31 PM UTC-4, LJ wrote:
>>> I also swear by blue painters tape (BPT). I use it on top of a 1/8th >>> inch thick aluminium plate on top of the hbp. The bed rises to about >>> 95 and using brim on the latest slic3r helps keep the print solid to >>> the bed for abs. To remove I use a putty knife to slide under and pop >>> it off. I've ground a bevel on only one side of the putty knife so it >>> slides in easily. And if the tape rips, I peel off the strip and put >>> a new one on. And the aluminium plate means I don't worry about >>> cutting the traces when removing a print and I get an even heat spread >>> and added thermal mass once up to temp to keep things on the bed even >>> with light breezes. The cost is very low for the high performance you >>> can get.
>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > Have you tried BPT? I swear it's a magical experience...
>>> >> I've tried mirror (shiny side up & shiny side down) with & without >>> Kapton, >>> >> & Home-brew ABS "paint", plain glass with & without Kapton & ABS >>> paint, HBP >>> >> alone, and not happy with any.
>>> >> Lots of research led to the conclusion that the printed object needs >>> a >>> >> mechanical & chemical bond with the print bed. Mechanical provided >>> by >>> >> non-smooth surface, allowing extruded plastic to get a "finger hold". >>> Some >>> >> have recommended sandblasted glass or sandblasted mirror. I had >>> trouble >>> >> finding a sandblaster that would produce a uniform "grippy" surface. >>> Also, >>> >> inconsistency from one to another could result in inconsistent >>> results. So >>> >> I gambled $13.00 on a piece of Matte Shower Glass.
>>> >> I bought it from a bathroom specialty store that handles tile, glass, >>> & >>> >> all sorts of stuff. The man who cut the piece for me made it a point >>> to >>> >> describe it as "Matte" glass.
>>> >> My initial trials with ABS at 205 C hot end failed ... the print >>> lifted at >>> >> the ends. At 230 C, & 110 C bed, and a light application of >>> home-brew "ABS >>> >> Paint", I couldn't be more pleased with the results. As long as the >>> bed is >>> >> hot, I simply cannot remove the part. I've tried using pliers, >>> twisting, >>> >> turning, rotating, tried wedging it off with a blunt-nosed X-Acto >>> blade ... >>> >> can't budge it.
>>> >> After cooling, it comes off with finger & thumb.
>>> >> Preparation for the next print involves only smearing a bit of ABS >>> paint >>> >> on the surface.
>>> >> An example of its performance is printing the cubes (Thingiverse >>> 23791). >>> >> These have a very small contact patch with the bed, and the printing >>> process >>> >> tries its best to break it loose.
I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:08 AM, NCBob <ncbob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest
> experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal
> patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
> I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of
> glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
*shrug* I like that I can try different patterns and see how it effects the adhesion, and I don't want to use any slurry at all. With the matte shower glass you still have to use slurry.
On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:50:41 AM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
> Matte shower glass is already etched ... and available.
> Gary > Make Better Things > Make Things Better
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:08 AM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>> I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest >> experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal >> patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
>> I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of >> glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:05 PM, NCBob <ncbob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *shrug* I like that I can try different patterns and see how it effects
> the adhesion, and I don't want to use any slurry at all. With the matte
> shower glass you still have to use slurry.
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:50:41 AM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
>> Matte shower glass is already etched ... and available.
>> Gary
>> Make Better Things
>> Make Things Better
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:08 AM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest
>>> experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal
>>> patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
>>> I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of
>>> glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
On Thursday, September 6, 2012 12:17:16 PM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
> Why is slurry objectionable?
> Gary > Make Better Things > Make Things Better
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:05 PM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>> *shrug* I like that I can try different patterns and see how it effects >> the adhesion, and I don't want to use any slurry at all. With the matte >> shower glass you still have to use slurry.
>> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:50:41 AM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
>>> Matte shower glass is already etched ... and available.
>>> Gary >>> Make Better Things >>> Make Things Better
>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:08 AM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest >>>> experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal >>>> patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
>>>> I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of >>>> glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
I've found no need to clean it off. Merely a casual wiping of the build
surface that was affected by previous print does the job. About 30 seconds
involved.
Never have to be concerned about damaging or replacing tape. Bottom
surface of prints is mirror-like.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:04 AM, NCBob <ncbob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> messy, pain in the butt to always need it to print. I'd much prefer to
> just start a print without having to clean the slurry off and apply a new
> coat.
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 12:17:16 PM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
>> Why is slurry objectionable?
>> Gary
>> Make Better Things
>> Make Things Better
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:05 PM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> *shrug* I like that I can try different patterns and see how it effects
>>> the adhesion, and I don't want to use any slurry at all. With the matte
>>> shower glass you still have to use slurry.
>>> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:50:41 AM UTC-4, Gary Schwartz wrote:
>>>> Matte shower glass is already etched ... and available.
>>>> Gary
>>>> Make Better Things
>>>> Make Things Better
>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:08 AM, NCBob <ncbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I've tried some of the other things mentioned here, and my latest
>>>>> experiment has been with laser etching a piece of glass. I did octagonal
>>>>> patterns on it, and the first quick test we did worked really well.
>>>>> I just need to spend some more time testing it, and getting a piece of
>>>>> glass for my mendelmax and etching it and seeing how it does.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Gary Schwartz <gschwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've found no need to clean it off. Merely a casual wiping of the build
> surface that was affected by previous print does the job. About 30 seconds
> involved.
> Never have to be concerned about damaging or replacing tape. Bottom
> surface of prints is mirror-like.
