What is the best extruder?

[noobcake]

Hi,

Is there anybody here that has tried both the Paxtruder and Printruder
extruders? Can you tell me which is better please? And if one is worse
why it is worse? ^__^

Well, after a lot of problems with my Makerbot for months I was just
about to give up when somebody helped me with my Skeinforge settings
(thnx Spacexula!!) and I saw it print amazingly for a day! And then is
broke.... o.o

Had I not seen it work almost perfectly for that couple hours I may
have foolishly given up on my additive CNC but well since then I have
found out a lot! It turns out that my problems were mainly with the
MK4 extruder. I took it a part a half a dozen times or so trying to
figure out what was wrong. Taking it apart of course I ended up
cracking my acrylic pieces including the idler wheel and the 6
extruder body pieces. But... I've taken it apart and put it together
along with soaking the jammed brass rod and nozzle in acetone for
days...three times now...rewrapping the nichrome wire 4 times...etc. I
now know all the parts of the extruder really well ;-) And I could put
it together half asleep... I ordered the new MK5 motor tooth pulley
and a PEEK tube from makergear. And of course I read and watched
everything online about any extruder I could find...part of this post
is in case maybe there are extruders I haven't read about and maybe
one of you can tell me :)

So a few days ago, I had no extruder... I didn't have a working
additive CNC so I couldn't print out a Printruder...I also do not have
a Laser CNC so could not make a Paxtruder. I also don't have $120.00
for another MK4....

But! I do have a subtractive CNC and so I created my own extruder out
of the only material that I have right now... I'm calling it
Woodstruder xD I made it yesterday and then I had to wait to test it
until today because of course the power went out last night >:/ right
after I finished it... (and by finished it I mean the 4th version of
it...).

I tested it and it does extrude but I found 2 major flaws and 2 minor
ones...that I have ideas on how to fix and am about to fix it right
now in Rhino...and then I'll cut it tomorrow. But I was just trying to
see how the Paxtruder gets around the negative aspect of pushing on
the filament..creating not only perpendicular force but also unwanted
parallel force...is the Delrin piece really that good?? I don't have
any Delrin or a Laser cutter so I can't try it myself yet...I could
cut it on my router CNC if I had the acrylic though and some Delrin.
But I'm just wondering from somebody who has a Paxtruder does it
really work reliably?

It is late here and I don't want to wake people up but I am
considering trying again to just print out a Printruder with my
Woodstruder ... I did make a knob with the woodstruder but it just
isnt reliable yet and I don't want to constantly have to turn the
screw :/ (I did try at first to make a printruder but woodtruder
started to fail half way through... ).

Well woodstruder is basically a mix of printruder and paxtruder but
made out of one block of wood and 1 plate of Lexan
(polycarbonate...much stronger than acrylic...and I happened to have a
little left). I also looked at the reprap mendel extuders Wade's and
Adrian's... but from what I read I would have to change settings in
skeinforge at best and at worst have to change the firmware and use
their software and well I want a drop in replacement right now for my
Makerbot. I do have an extra NEMA 23 motor with tons of torque (its
actually supposed to be a 4th axis for my other CNC...or a replacement
at worst case... XD ) but I want to just try and get the DC motor that
came with the Makerbot to work.

In a bit I'm going to keep working on my new extruder design for
tomorrow so I can actually make it but I was just trying to find what
other people use as extruders (the other people that have had a failed
MKx and didn't just buy another one) and if you like the Paxtruder or
Printruder better or....is there another one I am missing that is good
and reliable? :D

In the very unlikely case... that somebody else out there with a
subtractive CNC (or amazing wood working skills) that doesn't have a
working extruder right now and doesn't have access to a Laser CNC or a
Repstrap/Makerbot...BUT has a lot of wood and a piece of Polycarbonate
xD.... and wants to make a woodstruder I'll try and get it (5th
prototype) fixed tonight and can send the CAD file if anybody wants
just email me! :D

Thanks!

p.s. Sorry for such a long post... I am really just asking if somebody
out there can tell me which is better a Paxtruder 0.4 or a Printruder
II or is there a better one! (don't say MK4...) ^__^

[MakerBot Space2]

FYI - check out the Wiki @ makerbot.com they are going with the
Plaxtruder for the next generation. I will be making one soon on my
laser cutter.

Thanks

Brandon

[JohnA.]

I've had a new paxtruder in-hand for about 8 weeks now, ready to
install ( http://www.thingiverse.com/derivative:2423 )

I had figured 'the next time I have to pull my extruder apart, i'll
install it'. Eighty hours of prints later, I haven't had to pull my
extruder apart or even floss it.

I've still got it on hand and will probably try it if I ever have to
pull mine apart, but for the moment I'm going with 'if it ain't
broke....'. The MK4 can be made to run very well.


JohnA.

[MakerBot Space2]

John,

I was just building a second Bot for my Plaxtruder - Makergear Head
and Experimental Electronics. I should have thought of changing my
parts out first - LOL

Brandon

[MakerBot Space2]

NoobCake,

FYI - I currently run a Mark 4 head and do not have the same issues as
other users, for the most part my Extruder has been pain free. If I
have an issue I back my filament out cut it and re-feed it. I have
never "cleaned it out" _ i did bulge a PTFE insulator and replaced it
and covered it with a 1/2 copper plumbing coupler. No problems
since. I never floss either.

Thanks

Brandon

On Jul 19, 11:24 pm, noobcake <noobc...@noobcake.com> wrote:

[ddurant]

> Is there anybody here that has tried both the Paxtruder and Printruder
> extruders? Can you tell me which is better please?

I thought the designs were pretty similar except the Printruder is
printed and the Paxtruder is laser cut..

If the WoodStruder doesn't get happy, you might be able to get a
Printruder via shapeways.com or a Paxtruder via ponoko.com. No idea
what that'd cost, though.

Any idea why your plastruder is so unhappy?

On Jul 20, 2:24 am, noobcake <noobc...@noobcake.com> wrote:

[ddurant]

> ...for the most part my Extruder has been pain free. If I

> have an issue I back my filament out cut it and re-feed it. I have
> never "cleaned it out" _ i did bulge a PTFE insulator and replaced it
> and covered it with a 1/2 copper plumbing coupler. No problems
> since. I never floss either.

Except for the copper, this sounds exactly like my experience.

> > II  or is there a better one! (don't say MK4...) ^__^- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Michael Rule]

I don't want to derail this discussion, but 

do we have any idea of the approximate distribution of how long it takes people to get their MakerBot working ?

what fraction of buyers can get the MakerBot, as it has been shipping, working semi-reliably ?

what fraction of buys never get the default kit, as it ships, to work reliably ( counting all people who have not yet got their kit to work, or have been compelled to upgrade before getting reliable operation ) ?

I'm trying to get a handle on the statistics here. Is it something like the 20% most experienced people say "MakerBot is awesome, extruder MK4 is great !" 60% say "Makerbot is unreliable, I've spent a couple hundred in upgrades and now I'm happy(ish)" and 20% say "MakerBot is a disaster, I've spent weeks or months and have blown through my disposable income and still haven't gotten it to print"

and, are most of the differences in experience due to operator skill ? luck ? variance in the parts ? demons ?

It just seems like there is more than one person on this list that hasn't had much, if any success, with MakerBot as it is presently designed. 

I know with time, etc, most people get it to work, 

I just wonder how many people end up wondering at some point "maybe MakerBot Industries was a bit optimistic in their advertised product, this isn't quite the experience I expected". I mean, I want to stop short of calling MakerBot false advertising, because I think now in retrospect most "kit" products are a bit finicky, and in the future I'll factor in repair and upgrade time and budget in the purchasing decision, and I like the 3D printer idea so I don't want to kill this, but... yeah... 

sorry, go about your business

--mrule

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[MakerBot Space2]

my experience is as follows:

I received my Bot on April 19th - finished on April 20th. My extruder
worked fine first time. I then I struggled on my own to try to get my
prints to work, for 2 months. I then attended a user group meeting in
my area. I went home and was able to get my first real object to
print - a bottle opener. At the meeting I helped get known working
bot back to running. Seeing it and the process we took to get the bot
there to work, raising the temp. Changing my temp to 240 c was the
big hurdle for me. I call it flow point - you need to find the
correct temperature to get not only an extrusion but to account for
ambient temperature and motion. Just because ABS comes out of the
extruder doesn't mean you are going to get a flow of ABS. I could
extrude @ 220 c but it didn't flow until 240 c. I learned much of
what I know by becoming active here in the group. I helped other
resolve issues while working on my own. I now feel I am a very
advanced level user, when I don't cause my own problems, I broke a
wire recently and had a heck of a time, am able to get good prints.
The wire broke because I take my machine on the road for demos. I am
an active participant at the local user group and help others. My
point is this is like building a hand made engine - it might not start
the first time. It might not fire the 20th time. It is a complex
machine and it takes time to get it to work. Once it does it seems
very predictable to me. It took being there to see once what it should
look like to be able to get my own to run well. I had seen videos but
they were not interactive. I am an accomplished builder since I was
5, so I should be able to do this. It was new and took new skills and
understanding. Depending on your time and experiences it could take
more or less. I'm in Los Angeles, if you want to travel this way I
will do my best to help you. If I'm not local enough, check for
local groups, keep at it be detailed in your observations, it will
work if you are determined.

Thanks

Brandon

> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.c om>
> > .

[Mark Cohen]

Hi,

 

Well It is a DIY kit and I think the expectation is that people should know a little something before ordering one. In my case I waited two months for delivery and in that time I built a CNC kit. So by the time it arrived I knew all about stepper motors, drivers  and x/y/z axis etc. I also read a couple of CNC books. I subsequently sold the CNC kit on ebay and recovered almost all my expense. So that worked out well. I was able to build the machine and get it printing in about 2 days, 10 hours per day. The software/firmware and MK4 pulley were problems for me. I bulged the ptfe and ruined a barrel during the first week. I ordered the makergear peek and a .5 big head nozzle and barrel and aluminum idler on ebay. Total cost about $50 to get everything going again. At the time I started the firmware was being upgraded. It took about 4 months for the firmware and software to progress to a point where I would upgrade permanently. Some people like myself had issues until the last release of the firmware. Many people claimed it was noise in mine and others machines but I didn’t buy this explanation. Put on the old firmware it worked. Put on the new it failed. Simple for me to determine that something changed in the software and it was not my machine. I probably do have a noisy machine but the original software ignored the problem and the latest works well also. The firmware in between had issues with it and prevented me from upgrading.  The MK4 pulley worked but I had to increase the heat to make the filament not strip. The new MK5 pulley works great and I am now printing at the correct temperature. The heated build platform helped a lot but it lacked some things. That being a relay or a heatsink and something to reduce the tension on the wires. People came along and helped solve the issues. Now the board works well. I did switch to a larger hbp from Echertech on ebay. Works well and I can build larger pieces. The original board should have had a slightly larger footprint IMO as I kept bumping into the bolts. I never print on kapton tape. Right now I do not even believe it is possible as I never got it to stick except once after sanding and then that was it. I did buy the roll off ebay but still the same. So I used it to fix a stove and use it in place of the narrow kapton. I discovered I can use 3 inch white plain painters tape overlapped on the HBP and it sticks well at 120-130c and I replace it every other build unless it is damaged. It is not as smooth as Kapton but close.

 

My prints have steadily improved since the end of February to the point where I can make really good pulleys  among other things. I very rarely get a failure now.

 

So the point of this long story is that I thought it would be easier than it was but I came into this during a time of change in the firmware/software and MK5 pulley and if I had waited till July I would have had it much easier but I would not have learned as much.

 

I also have a tendency to buy spare parts and really get into my hobbies. I think between Makerbot, Ebay and Makergear I have spent an additional $2000 both in upgrades, spare parts and building my Mendel. You want dissatisfaction then take a look at building a Mendel. You will appreciate the Makerbot so much more. I just sold the Mendel on ebay and with the money and all my spares I am building a second Makerbot. Hardly any loss there except from my own mistakes burning out some electronics  and I learned a lot. I burned an HBP also. Took weeks to get the smell out of the house.

 

So in my opinion:

 

Is it unreliable:

Back in Feb 2010, Yes. In July 2010, No

 

Is it luck or skill?

It is skill/knowledge and asking a lot of questions and lurking in the forums. Do not assume that everyone knows all the answers. Most people can give you a clue and you have to try it yourself. Several times I was told my issues have to do with variation of where I place the thermistor, how much tape I used etc. and that I just had to try different settings as all the machines are made differently. So true, but really if you follow the wiki directions (improving all the time) you will come close. I even went down to Makerbot and took a look at their cupcakes. They were assembled just like mine.  So why did I have trouble? I was running too cool. People said don’t run past 230c it burns the ABS. But then I saw skeinforge 7 default settings and they were real high. So I copied them and it worked. I printed for months at 230-235c. Well I probably had something off. Reading the forums I was able to understand the symptoms and knew that I had an issue somewhere but now that it works, who cares. Then I got a Makergear hot end and I am printing at 220c. So I guess people are correct even though I can’t see the issue.

 

Does it work as shipped:

Yes usually. But since you have to build it, anything can go wrong. Belts need to be just right. Wires need to be fully plugged in etc. People should read the forums before they make a purchase as this is a big time consuming hobby. It used to be that people soldered together their own boards. These are premade now. The packages look sealed for the plastruder and motherboard so I am guessing they are not tested. The steppers look like they are packed by hand so these might be tested. I don’t know. It seems some people had failures and Makerbot is willing to exchange the boards if you talk to them. I’m sure they want to know about manufacturing defects. But many people just resolder the boards. The expectation I think is that people should know how to do this. I learned. I still don’t know much electronics, but now I can solder anything, I can and have made all the boards.

 

Was Makerbot too optimistic about their product and this was not the experience I expected?

Well they really didn’t promise me anything but that I would receive a 3D printer kit that I had to put together. That implies I need to  be able to do that and if I can then it would work. I did not realize how much work it is to gain this skill. Days to build , Months to master actually.  Some people might know more coming into this than myself and so have it easier. I did no research and just read the make magazine article and bought one. I was real surprised how much work it was.

 

I can if I want say that some of the things they put out could have been better. but that is because I have 20/20 hindsight LOL. I can and others did suggest several things. Those have happened either through Makerbot directly such as the new Relay Board even the MK5 pulley and all the software enhancements are based on user input and their own testing. Believe me they want to put out a great reliable product, but they are just a handful of people and are now expanding and adding in all the nice things that bigger companies take for granted. I visited them so I know. They are gradually tackling all the issues. You can see this happening daily.

 

That’s my thoughts on this subject.

 

Regards,

Mark

[ddurant]

Seeing one in person is definitely a bonus. I also saw a lot of videos
but still didn't have a good feel for what to expect.

I think most of the problems is that there's not a good debug tree for
how to diagnose common problems - one that *starts* with the cheap &
easy things first. I wince every time I hear of a extruder jam leading
to disassembly then a week long acetone soak or a blow torch without
at least measuring the filament width between the pinch wheel and the
insulator.

Once you have temperature at least in the right ballpark, I'd bet that
90% of extruder jams are just an incorrectly adjusted idler..

> > > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.c om>

> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[JohnA.]

We've got two. Both were printing great in less than a day. Both
have subsequently been upgraded and tweaked, but we had great results
on day one.

Just as a note -- there are just about 800 people on this list and
probably 1700 MakerBot's out in the wild. Most of the people on this
list don't post much.

With any online forum you'll always see more complaints than tales of
success, since the people who don't need help are generally out
printing / driving / working / shooting / doing whatever it is the
focus of the forum is.

I had a completed / working / well tuned MakerBot on eBay and wrote
the following disclaimer:

"A MakerBot is a complex machine that takes considerable time to
build, and even more time to tune and learn about it’s operation.
While this ‘Bot has been assembled and thoroughly tested, it is by no
means a foolproof device, and at some point it will require
maintenance and / or repairs that involve disassembling various
sections of the device. If you are not comfortable with the idea of
being able to research problems online, tinker with potential fixes,
and generally learning how it works by dis-assembly and repair, this
is probably not an item you should bid on. This is the bleeding edge
of personal manufacturing, and as such it requires that you have basic
tools as well as a sense of adventure and persistence to make it
work."

Maybe when they get bigger and start selling higher volumes MBI will
need to have some sort of notice like that....

JohnA.

[Martin Bogomolni]

John,

As someone who has had great luck getting things to work out of the
box, would you mind taking us through the process you went through to
get both your MakerBots working smoothly, skeinforge configured well,
and making high quality 3D prints?

Probably the best way for others to learn, and succeed, would be by
replicating your examples...

-Martin

[Gian Pablo]

My makerbot worked "out of the box" but the parts were not 100%
satisfactory. After some tinkering with skeinforge, and a heavily
modified profile, I started getting some really nice parts (using a
raft).

I made a few changes, Mk 5 motor gear and double idler wheel, copper
shielding, moving the extruder controller to the side, etc.

Heated build platform did not work at first, so I used the relay fix.
This worked OK, but stuff would not stick. Blue tape was OK, not
great. Got some Kapton tape from Minnesota Vacuum and that worked
perfectly. I don't even use the raftless plugin.

Was still getting occasional stripping and jamming, fortunately a
friend ran off a drop-in Paxtruder on his laser cutter, and I found a
Delrin scrap which I machined to make a plunger. While I was at it, I
ordered a Makergear plastruder.

Total elapsed time, maybe 6 weeks, with considerably less time spent
actively tinkering.

The Paxtruder seems considerably more reliably than the Mk 4, I think
because the pressure is more consistent. The idler wheel could wobble
on its bearing, and was not perfectly rotationally symmetrical. The
Makergear nozzle also works great - I can extrude successfully at
about 205C, which is great for towers.

In summary, I was able to get it working out of the box, but not
totally reliably. Making a number of easy changes got it to the point
where it is rock solid.

My documentation here: http://villamil.org/?tag=makerbot

On Jul 19, 11:24 pm, noobcake <noobc...@noobcake.com> wrote:

[Ethan Dicks]

I spent a lot more than two days building #330, but it was bought by
someone else, so I took my time to be craftsmanly. It also extruded a
sample noodle the first time I fired it up. I've never had a bulge
problem or idler wheel problem with the MK4 printhead. I've only had
one material failure, just this week, of the filament snagging on the
edge of the split layer of the stack of acrylic, breaking off part of
the guide plate. I was watching it intently and it all happened
faster than I could hit "stop" (a Big Red Button might have been fast
enough to save the day). The only real operational problem I've had
has been struggling with an unexpanded bot in a cold house during an
Ohio winter and rafts lifting off the build platform no matter what I
tried. Once Spring came around (and once I built my own 25W HBP),
it's been much, much more reliable.

I'm still learning what in skeinforge affects what else, so I can't
say that I make artistic quality prints, but I can fire up the bot and
expect something useful to come out after a session.

I've been building electronic kits since grade school, so I didn't
find any aspect of the assembly challenging. The wiki docs have been
under continuous improvement, so I did have questions at the start
that now would be answered just by reading along.

For reference, I'm still using the old 1.6/1.8 firmwares, running RepG
0014 w/Skeinforge 0006 on a CentOS (RedHat) laptop - the Bot has an
ordinary MK4 printhead and a self-built aluminum-plate 25W HPB. I'm
mostly using it right now to make misc parts for a Mendel (new
printhead parts, etc), but I still have a couple of things to work out
before I'm printing there.

-ethan

[MakerBot Space2]

Hi All,

I have a 15 year background in Hardware & Software Support. I have a
much longer history building things. You may have read my earlier
post on how my Botting went. It took me 2 + months to get mine to
print well. I'm glad for the challenges that I have encountered as it
makes me more knowledgeable on how to help others. I'm exploring
every facet of using my Bot. I intend to provide phone support in the
future. I am developing a program of steps to get up and running
successfully as well as a list of suggested mods to be as successful
as possible. I forced myself to use the Bot as it comes to see what
to expect. It can print 3D objects as the kit comes. I would suggest
a Heated Build Platform and the new Relay Kit to everyone that is not
going to want warping. I feel comfortable with most issues posed
here. Often someone else responds first. When you don't see me here
I'm working, printing or sleeping. I have many innovations to the
system, I have to find time to properly document them and share. I
work two jobs so my time is very limited. This will change down the
road. I have the base for a support system I posted here when I first
started - Links below - this is a young product and it is improving
all the time. Many good things are on the way. I have a chapter of
a book for the Makerbot almost finished on the Plastruder(mark 4) -
mark 5 will change many things.

Lastly as long as I'm at it - Thank You to everyone that participates
here, we are making a difference.

Thanks

Brandon

[Owen M Collins]

Michael's Questions:

 how long it takes people to get their MakerBot working ?

I could only work on it an hour or two a night, so I took a long time to get mine constructed.

what fraction of buyers can get the MakerBot, as it has been shipping, working semi-reliably ?

I found the hardware to be just fine, but the software was tricky. But that could be because I am very unfamiliar with bootloaders, command lines and such.

what fraction of buys never get the default kit, as it ships, to work reliably ( counting all people who have not yet got their kit to work, or have been compelled to upgrade before getting reliable operation ) ?

I only have the basic kit, with the Plastruder MK4 upgrade since mine shipped the MK3. Once I got past software problems I was fine. And all the software problems I had have been addressed in upgrades and enhancements by MBI and others. Like Skeinfox- that made my life so much easier.

Although I am very cautious when upgrading software. I wait until I see the list has worked out most of the kinks before I jump in. (thank you very much to the adventurous out there that try the bleeding edge, you are a very valuable part of the community) I feel that has helped me keep running smoothly.

I'm trying to get a handle on the statistics here. Is it something like the 20% most experienced people say "MakerBot is awesome, extruder MK4 is great !" 60% say "Makerbot is unreliable, I've spent a couple hundred in upgrades and now I'm happy(ish)" and 20% say "MakerBot is a disaster, I've spent weeks or months and have blown through my disposable income and still haven't gotten it to print"

I feel the MK4 is a great improvement over the MK3. It can be a reliable piece of hardware, but it seems the tolerances are very narrow. What one person interprets as the correct distance, or what one sees as 2mm can be very different. I have set up the Plastruder with the MK4 upgrade and the 2mm rod, and haven't adjusted it since. If I didn't have that rod I would have been screwed and tattooed.  The issue as I see it, is that perspective of the kit owner/builder can be vastly different from the engineers and hackers that made the kit. How to make it more foolproof, that is the next step. I think the MK5 Plastruder is a step towards that goal, since it has such improved hold of the filament, that gets gets the misadjusted idler out of the equation. Which as someone else on the list has said is probably the culprit most of the time.

I have built my plastruder once, and have never had the need to take it apart. the only adjustment was the idler wheel and I haven't adjusted that since November.

The complaints I have are different that yours, the 3mm plywood in my X & Y stages are showing their wear, bending and cracking in places. they have fixed this by using a thicker plywood in batches 5 and later. However, it still prints fine, and my superglue is holding. I am printing replacement bits as I go, so will hopefully be ready when it finally fails. I can be laid back about this because I have 3d printer that works. It is an amazing thing, and was something I had been dreaming about for years. I never seriously looked at making a RepRap because it was so finicky, this was relatively painless. I am sorry you are having a frustrating time with your kit. I would like to help anyway I can, and I am sure everyone else on the list feels your pain too.

It just seems like there is more than one person on this list that hasn't had much, if any success, with MakerBot as it is presently designed. 

This list is built around sharing thoughts and concerns about Makerbots, so it is used a  resource to help users figure out problems. THat is why we hear all the "squeaky wheels" you could say. The people on the list in the beginning are not active now, maybe they are off making things, or maybe they chucked their Makerbots out of frustration. But I Don't have many questions when things are working, and that is why I am not posting all the time. So I guess I am saying that the list may be skewed to the negative, even though there are a lot of positive MakerBot experiences out there in the world.

Just my thoughts, I hope they were helpful.

Owen

[noobcake]

I wish I could go to a usergroup...I'm on the East Coast though. :D

I revised my own extruder (woodstruder v5/v6??) and it now is printing
pretty dam well as I type this :D The first thing I am printing of
course is a printruder (because I'm so confident in woodstruder ....
no... xD) to have as a backup.

I actually learned a lot the past few days by making my own extruder
it helped me totally understand the MK4 and the whole extruder part.

I did look for usergroups in my area and there aren't any I don't
think... it would be fun to see other people use their makerbot in
person though!

Thanks!

On Jul 20, 1:29 pm, MakerBot Space2 <makerbotsp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.c om>

[MakerBot Space2]

Noobcake,

I checked your profile to see if I could see where your located after
my Post. I'm glad to hear you were innovative enough to come up with
your own unique solution and are printing now. I can tell you the
first real part was mind blowing for me. I was at the end of my rope
I was about 2 minutes shy of giving up and thinking about it for
another two months. When the first layer bonded to my build platform
I was not too impressed - it was when the 3rd layer stuck and I saw it
was going to flow. When I have a layer that skips I just lower my
head manually. I'm now down to adjusting my Skienforge settings for
optimal printing.

What OS are you running under?

Thanks

Brandon

> ...
>
> read more »

[noobcake]

>> read more �
>

I just finally stopped printing :D woodstruder successfully printed a
Printruder both parts for the first time the big part. and the hand
model and then I adjusted my LEDs and am calling it a night. Tomorrow I
am going to buy some more Polycarbonate to make v6 look better but so
far v5 is perfect. :D

What OS do I use? You mean for my controlling the print or to make the
gcode? xD I actually have 5 computers in front of me with diff. OSes :p
I actually have been doing the gcode part on my vista because it is my
fastest computer atm... I start up replicatorg in another computer
though using XP. It is also controlling my other CNC computer I only use
repg to preheat the extruder and the heated platform...I run the actual
file off the SD card now.

I don't even know anything about google profile or what mine says...I
only signed up to be able to view and post in this makerbot group... I
don't use google groups other than this.

Soon I can start making my Mendel yay! ^__^

Thanks for the reply!

[Michael Rule]

Thanks everyone for the thorough replies, I read them all, and they were informative. I think you've (mostly) convinced me not to beg for a free Mk5 extruder gear from MakerBot as a fix for intermittent extruder failures (a problem on large prints). I'll be away from the internet for a week, but hopefully when I get back I will have some time to work on MakerBot again. Hopefully it will be printing reliably... some day. It seems like people who've had the most success /have/ had a lot of mechanical experience, or have access to other CNC machines to make upgrades and fixes ( is there a good subtractive CNC kit out there ? laser cutter kit ? ). I can't really machine replacement parts here.

thanks,

mrule.

[Sonny Mounicou]

Michael,

I just put mine together at the beginning of July. I was plagued by
filament stripping issues at first. The mk4 gear and the acrylic
idler worked ok, but I'd say every 4th or 5th print they would strip.

I would not put in an mk5 gear unless you get one of Brian's aluminum
idler wheels from ebay. The mk5 gear for me was worse until I put
that new idler in. With the combination, the extruder has been rock
solid. I've printed about a 1/2 lb of ABS with no stripping or jams
(knock on wood). I'd highly recommend getting the two parts as an
upgrade. The $25 is probably the best bang for the buck upgrade I've
spent on my makerbot.

--Sonny

[ddurant]

> It seems like people
> who've had the most success /have/ had a lot of mechanical experience, or
> have access to other CNC machines to make upgrades and fixes

That's not true in my case. I'm a software person - hardware scares me
and electrons.. Electronics are pure black magic.

As for having access to ubertools, I had to go out and buy a glue gun
to assemble my makerbot.

On Jul 21, 10:37 am, Michael Rule <mrule7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the thorough replies, I read them all, and they were
> informative. I think you've (mostly) convinced me not to beg for a free Mk5
> extruder gear from MakerBot as a fix for intermittent extruder failures (a
> problem on large prints). I'll be away from the internet for a week, but
> hopefully when I get back I will have some time to work on MakerBot again.
> Hopefully it will be printing reliably... some day. It seems like people
> who've had the most success /have/ had a lot of mechanical experience, or
> have access to other CNC machines to make upgrades and fixes ( is there a
> good subtractive CNC kit out there ? laser cutter kit ? ). I can't really
> machine replacement parts here.
>
> thanks,
> mrule.
>

> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Owen M Collins <ccstudio.o...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Michael's Questions:
>
> > * how long it takes people to get their MakerBot working ?
> > *

> > I could only work on it an hour or two a night, so I took a long time to
> > get mine constructed.
>

> > *what fraction of buyers can get the MakerBot, as it has been shipping,
> > working semi-reliably ?*

> > I found the hardware to be just fine, but the software was tricky. But that
> > could be because I am very unfamiliar with bootloaders, command lines and
> > such.
>

> > *what fraction of buys never get the default kit, as it ships, to work

> > reliably ( counting all people who have not yet got their kit to work, or

> > have been compelled to upgrade before getting reliable operation ) ?*

>
> > I only have the basic kit, with the Plastruder MK4 upgrade since mine
> > shipped the MK3. Once I got past software problems I was fine. And all the
> > software problems I had have been addressed in upgrades and enhancements by
> > MBI and others. Like Skeinfox- that made my life so much easier.
>
> > Although I am very cautious when upgrading software. I wait until I see the
> > list has worked out most of the kinks before I jump in. (thank you very much
> > to the adventurous out there that try the bleeding edge, you are a very
> > valuable part of the community) I feel that has helped me keep running
> > smoothly.
>

> > *I'm trying to get a handle on the statistics here. Is it something like

> > the 20% most experienced people say "MakerBot is awesome, extruder MK4 is
> > great !" 60% say "Makerbot is unreliable, I've spent a couple hundred in
> > upgrades and now I'm happy(ish)" and 20% say "MakerBot is a disaster, I've
> > spent weeks or months and have blown through my disposable income and still

> > haven't gotten it to print"*

> > *It just seems like there is more than one person on this list that hasn't
> > had much, if any success, with MakerBot as it is presently designed. *

>
> > This list is built around sharing thoughts and concerns about Makerbots, so
> > it is used a  resource to help users figure out problems. THat is why we
> > hear all the "squeaky wheels" you could say. The people on the list in the
> > beginning are not active now, maybe they are off making things, or maybe
> > they chucked their Makerbots out of frustration. But I Don't have many
> > questions when things are working, and that is why I am not posting all the
> > time. So I guess I am saying that the list may be skewed to the negative,
> > even though there are a lot of positive MakerBot experiences out there in
> > the world.
>
> > Just my thoughts, I hope they were helpful.
> > Owen
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "MakerBot Operators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.c­om>
> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

[MakerBot Space2]

I have tons of experience with hand tools and own a laser system -when
I built the MakerBot I had never held a glue gun, I felt out of
place. I am going to make a Plaxtruder for myself soon. As soon as
I have time to. I'm not currently in the business of making
replacement parts - however for you I'm willing to make a second
Plaxtruder as long as I'm at it. I will not charge you anything for
making the parts. By the way this is the Pusher System used in the
Mark5. I will discuss off line what parts you wish to donate from
your current system to use it or if you will get a separate set. I
will ask you to cover the cost of materials and sending it to you.
How do you feel about that? I understand your on Vacation and can
wait for a reply. I need the time - LOL now the only costly part is
the Delrin for the Idler. Anyone have some left over Delrin?
MCMasters is a bit high on the cost. I was going to try out my local
CNC shop to see if they had any. Thought I'd try here first.

Thanks

Brandon

> > > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.c­om>

> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[Martin Bogomolni]

Don't bother with a delrin idler .. the cost for one of Brian's
aluminum idler wheels (with bearing installed) is more than worth the
price. Never another broken idler wheel again.

-Martin

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[MakerBot Space2]

That might be but the Paxtruder ( my bad had the wrong name ) has no
idler wheel at all just a Mark5 gear and a pusher - no more broken
wheel - no wheel.

B.

> >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hidequoted text -

[Owen M Collins]

I am a designer for theater, so my previous electrical experience was with 1-2Kilowatt lights and 220Volt power tools. This was a real push for me, but I found the instructions combined with reading/asking the list to get me thru it.

Ask away and maybe we can all get you thru this,
O.

[Ethan Dicks]

On 7/21/10, MakerBot Space2 <makerb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> now the only costly part is
> the Delrin for the Idler. Anyone have some left over Delrin?
> MCMasters is a bit high on the cost. I was going to try out my local
> CNC shop to see if they had any. Thought I'd try here first.

I was wondering about the Delrin myself (since I have indirect access
to a laser cutter). Does anyone have any experience to suggest what a
good shape of Delrin would be to cut up? (I'm guessing something like
6mm-thick plate vs rod or something) I have access to a local place
that sells scrap sizes of plastic for cheap, but I don't know exactly
what to shop for.

I'm interested building a Paxtruder myself, and the Delrin is probably
the biggest issue holding me back. In the meantime, I'm humming along
with an MK4.

Thanks,

-ethan

[Len Trigg]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Ethan Dicks <ethan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm interested building a Paxtruder myself, and the Delrin is probably
> the biggest issue holding me back.  In the meantime, I'm humming along
> with an MK4.

What makes Delrin special? Could a piece of PTFE serve as well if cut
to an appropriate shape?

Cheers,
Len.

[JohnA.]

I got a piece of delrin flat bar stock from USPlastics. Like $3 and
enough to make 6 or more pushers I bet....

(you can get the shape to cut from the DXF files - but the thickness
profile of the rounded end will depend on whether you're using a MK4
gear or a MK5 gear)

I can post pics if anyone wants. Say the word.


JohnA.


On Jul 21, 8:17 pm, Len Trigg <len...@gmail.com> wrote:

[MakerBot Space2]

Delrin resists letting other materials become embedded in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene_plastic

enjoy

Brandon

On Jul 21, 5:17 pm, Len Trigg <len...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Charles Edward Pax]

In the Paxtruder-1.0 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:955) I used a
small piece of PTFE on the end of a piece of Acrylic as the pusher.
You can see this in the image on Thingiverse. PTFE is quite soft and
will squish where it meets the filament. This may be a good thing. The
acrylic was used to interface with the thumbscrew; a purely PTFE
pusher would grind away. While PTFE may be a better substance than
Acetal (Delrin) to interface with the filament it means having a two
part pusher or an expensive thumb screw with a swivel tip.

I've found Acetal to be the best solution due to its hardness and low
coefficient of friction with ABS. A one piece pusher makes life a
little happier.

However, I encourage others to test new materials. There may be
something even better out there that we'll never find unless we keep
exploring. You may even run into a material that will be perfect in a
completely different application.

Charles Edward Pax
 blog: http://charlespax.com/
 twitter: http://twitter.com/charlespax

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

[MakerBot Space2]

Charles,

I've cut 2 Paxtruders - I'm ordering screws today. I am going to at
some point try to add a spring in the pusher to have the best of both
worlds pushing with some automatic tension and an adjuster. I can't
find the thumb screws long enough. Where can I get a few? I also
made an simple adapter to the Makergear head. Once I test it and it
doesn't fail I'll post the adapter on Thigiverse.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51037280@N08/4855788823/

Thanks
Brandon

[Charles Edward Pax]

You can purchase the thumb screw caps from mcmaster:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#thumb-screws/=8byhe6. I'd love to know how
the spring works out.

Charles Edward Pax
 blog: http://charlespax.com/
 twitter: http://twitter.com/charlespax