Dimension FDM quality

[PropellerScience]

I uploaded a few pictures of the sample the guys selling the Dimension
FDM printer made for us. I wanted to show everyone the quality of the
print surface so you can compare it with what you're making on your
Makerbot machines.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesannio/sets/72157631639531959/

[Bill Culverhouse]

I'm a little surprised that the Dimension shows the "echo" effect from going around
the corner in the pic with the circle cutout. But I guess I shouldn't be.
I just thought that a) the dimension doesn't go all that fast in mm/s feedrate and
b) the extruder was moving along very tightly controlled axes.

But it is apparent that DIY has caught up to commercial in the hardware area.
Their slicing software is still better/smarter but that gap is closing quickly.

b

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[Dan Newman]

On 27 Sep 2012 , at 6:15 PM, Bill Culverhouse wrote:

> I'm a little surprised that the Dimension shows the "echo" effect from
> going around
> the corner in the pic with the circle cutout. But I guess I shouldn't be.
> I just thought that a) the dimension doesn't go all that fast in mm/s
> feedrate and
> b) the extruder was moving along very tightly controlled axes.

The kinetic energy has to go somewhere when you don't slow down enough
and suddenly stop and reverse direction. Some/much of it goes into
vibration.

> But it is apparent that DIY has caught up to commercial in the hardware
> area.
> Their slicing software is still better/smarter but that gap is closing
> quickly.

They have very nice slicing software. And very nice niche-oriented
software (e.g., packages tailored to dental, etc.).

Dan

[Joseph Chiu]

I suppose it would be mean to upload a similar design to Thingiverse to allow for more direct comparison...  It seems like a really useful test object.

[Andrew Russell]

I was randomly browsing your flickr photos, and just assumed this
print was from a replicator.
The fill pattern on the top looks nicer than I've been able to pull
off, but I'm still in the middle of dialing in my machine xml
settings.
Which dimension printer is this from again, and how much does it cost?
This is the same printer that has the $6 throwaway acrylic platform?

Also, I find that natural ABS always makes the prints look better
because of the translucency. I'd love to see the same print in an
opaque filament.

-Andy

[Dan Newman]

On 27 Sep 2012 , at 7:25 PM, Andrew Russell wrote:

> I was randomly browsing your flickr photos, and just assumed this
> print was from a replicator.
> The fill pattern on the top looks nicer than I've been able to pull
> off, but I'm still in the middle of dialing in my machine xml
> settings.
> Which dimension printer is this from again, and how much does it cost?
> This is the same printer that has the $6 throwaway acrylic platform?
>
> Also, I find that natural ABS always makes the prints look better
> because of the translucency. I'd love to see the same print in an
> opaque filament.

Black ABS is not very forgiving, for instance. All the blemishes jump
out for me.

Dan

[ddurant]

Also surprised at the waves.. Could their machines not have acceleration?

[Dan Newman]

On 27 Sep 2012 , at 7:42 PM, ddurant wrote:

> Also surprised at the waves.. Could their machines not have acceleration?

You can get those with acceleration but with poor tuning of the jerk control
such that you don't slow down enough as you change direction. Or if your max
decelerations are too high: if you set them too high, you're telling
the bot (or slicer or whatever) that you can stop on a dime when in fact you
cannot. So the bot thinks it can slow down faster than it really can and Newton's
laws of motion trump wishful thinking. Net, net, while its now overshooting, the
stepper motor is trying to yank it in some other direction and vibration/shaking
is induced.

Dan

[PropellerScience]

I wish I could remember which model they printed with. I know it was
with soluble support, so it's not the $22K model that only has
breakaway supports. It's in the $30-$44K range.
I wish I could upload a similar design to Thingiverse, but they're
proprietary designs owned by the company I work for. That's why you're
not seeing the whole thing either. Here's a link to their comparison
chart:
http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-main.aspx
The ringing might be caused by their belt driven extruders, I'm not
sure about acceleration.
This is the same printer with throwaway Acrylic platforms. All three
have them.

[Andy]

Jeeze. With the price difference between these, their material costs, and service contracts, you could just pay a guy to babysit a farm of replicators.

-Andy

[ddurant]

> Newton

 

Sure! He's why Replicators will never, ever be as fast as Ultimakers.. :P

 

I was wondering more if they didn't have acceleration because commercial machines are far less likely to be tinkered with. They seem like they have a limited, preset list of slicing profiles, no 3rd-party firmware, and I imagine they've got some serious long-beards that have been working on the software/firmware for years and years.

 

All the sort of things that we have to dial in should be set in their factory or when their concierge comes and sets the machine up for you..