ReplicatorG 0019 + MK5 + HBP2.0 + Raftless?
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Stan Seibert
Sep 19, 2010, 9:13:38 AM9/19/10
to MakerBot Operators
This past week I relocated from Los Alamos, NM to Philadelphia
(increasing air pressure and humidity around my MakerBot quite a bit),
assembled/installed the Plastruder MK5 and switched to ReplicatorG
0019. I have been using the Heated Build Platform 2.0 both before and
after the major changes.
(BTW, for anyone on the fence: The MK5 is fantastic! My modified MK4
was becoming very unreliable and jamming frequently. This new design
is really something the MakerBot crew should be proud of!)
Figuring that everything would be different, I took the opportunity to
streamline my workflow. Now I use the Skeinforge profiles built into
ReplicatorG rather than using my hand-tuned more recent Skeinforge. I
was pleasantly surprised to see that ReplicatorG worked great for the
entire STL->GCode->Print sequence (RepG built-in SkeinForge never
printed right with my MK4 in Los Alamos) right out of the box and
provided better progress information than the standard SkeinForge.
The convenience factor is significant, so I'd like to keep using
ReplicatorG to center my STL and generate GCode, but I'm having a few
issues:
* Does anyone know of good extruder reversal parameters for an MK5
using RepG 19? In the past I zeroed them out and tried to configure
Oozebane in SkeinForge, but that also never worked well. I find that
the MK5 still has significant lag between DC motor on and extrusion,
and it is definitely affecting the accuracy of small detail. (And
possibly relates to next problem.)
* Has anyone had success printing with GCode produced by ReplicatorG
with the "raft" box unchecked? When I first setup my HBP, I had to do
a lot of tinkering to get things to work with an external SkeinForge
install, and the built-in profile in RepG without a raft doesn't seem
to work very well on my machine. The lag in extrusion seems to mess
up the start of prints without a raft, resulting in a tangle of ABS
thread stuck to the nozzle.
Also a tangential question:
I recognize that raftless printing still seems a bit fiddly, which is
too bad because when it works, it is really fantastic. Has anyone
with an Automated Build Platform gotten reliable raftless printing?
All the ABP demo photos and videos I've found use rafts.
(increasing air pressure and humidity around my MakerBot quite a bit),
assembled/installed the Plastruder MK5 and switched to ReplicatorG
0019. I have been using the Heated Build Platform 2.0 both before and
after the major changes.
(BTW, for anyone on the fence: The MK5 is fantastic! My modified MK4
was becoming very unreliable and jamming frequently. This new design
is really something the MakerBot crew should be proud of!)
Figuring that everything would be different, I took the opportunity to
streamline my workflow. Now I use the Skeinforge profiles built into
ReplicatorG rather than using my hand-tuned more recent Skeinforge. I
was pleasantly surprised to see that ReplicatorG worked great for the
entire STL->GCode->Print sequence (RepG built-in SkeinForge never
printed right with my MK4 in Los Alamos) right out of the box and
provided better progress information than the standard SkeinForge.
The convenience factor is significant, so I'd like to keep using
ReplicatorG to center my STL and generate GCode, but I'm having a few
issues:
* Does anyone know of good extruder reversal parameters for an MK5
using RepG 19? In the past I zeroed them out and tried to configure
Oozebane in SkeinForge, but that also never worked well. I find that
the MK5 still has significant lag between DC motor on and extrusion,
and it is definitely affecting the accuracy of small detail. (And
possibly relates to next problem.)
* Has anyone had success printing with GCode produced by ReplicatorG
with the "raft" box unchecked? When I first setup my HBP, I had to do
a lot of tinkering to get things to work with an external SkeinForge
install, and the built-in profile in RepG without a raft doesn't seem
to work very well on my machine. The lag in extrusion seems to mess
up the start of prints without a raft, resulting in a tangle of ABS
thread stuck to the nozzle.
Also a tangential question:
I recognize that raftless printing still seems a bit fiddly, which is
too bad because when it works, it is really fantastic. Has anyone
with an Automated Build Platform gotten reliable raftless printing?
All the ABP demo photos and videos I've found use rafts.
Koen Kooi
Sep 19, 2010, 9:36:27 AM9/19/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
Op 19 sep 2010, om 15:13 heeft Stan Seibert het volgende geschreven:
> * Has anyone had success printing with GCode produced by ReplicatorG
> with the "raft" box unchecked? When I first setup my HBP, I had to do
> a lot of tinkering to get things to work with an external SkeinForge
> install, and the built-in profile in RepG without a raft doesn't seem
> to work very well on my machine. The lag in extrusion seems to mess
> up the start of prints without a raft, resulting in a tangle of ABS
> thread stuck to the nozzle.
I use this as start.txt:
(Cupcake ABS with heated build platform skeinforge profile)
(beginning of start.txt)
M104 S222 T0 (Extruder Temperature to 222 Celsius)
M109 S110 T0 (Heated Platform Temperature to 110 Celsius)
G21 (Metric FTW)
G90 (Absolute Positioning)
(You have failed me for the last time, MakerBot)
M108 S210 (Extruder speed = max)
M6 T0 (Wait for tool to heat up)
(Spacexula raftless tail)
G1 X-45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F3000
M101
G1 X-45.0 Y-45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X45.0 Y-45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X-45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F945
M103
M104 S208 T0 (Extruder Temperature to 208 Celsius)
(end of start.txt)
that will draw a nice square (or if you wan't countersunk the platform bolts, destroy your bot) which gives you time to adjust the initial height and have some 'fresh' abs in the nozzle before starting the actual print.
regards,
Koen
Anderson
Sep 19, 2010, 9:57:56 AM9/19/10
to MakerBot Operators
I am printing small/medium-ish objects with raft turned off. I am
using blue painters tape instead of kapton though. The trick is to get
good adhesion for the first couple layers. I set my HBP to 120 and
watch/adjust my first couple of layers manually to make sure I can get
it to stick.
I am not sure if its just me, but I can't ge the raftless plug-in to
work in RepG 19. I had it working in RepG 18 and it was def beneficial
to be able to adjust the speed of the first layer.
And I havn't got the ABP yet, hopefully soon though.
using blue painters tape instead of kapton though. The trick is to get
good adhesion for the first couple layers. I set my HBP to 120 and
watch/adjust my first couple of layers manually to make sure I can get
it to stick.
I am not sure if its just me, but I can't ge the raftless plug-in to
work in RepG 19. I had it working in RepG 18 and it was def beneficial
to be able to adjust the speed of the first layer.
And I havn't got the ABP yet, hopefully soon though.
Stan Seibert
Sep 19, 2010, 10:42:39 AM9/19/10
to MakerBot Operators
On Sep 19, 9:57 am, Anderson <ata0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am printing small/medium-ish objects with raft turned off. I am
> using blue painters tape instead of kapton though. The trick is to get
> good adhesion for the first couple layers. I set my HBP to 120 and
> watch/adjust my first couple of layers manually to make sure I can get
> it to stick.
>
> I am not sure if its just me, but I can't ge the raftless plug-in to
> work in RepG 19. I had it working in RepG 18 and it was def beneficial
> to be able to adjust the speed of the first layer.
The sanded Kapton is working OK for me (not 100% reliable adhesion,
> I am printing small/medium-ish objects with raft turned off. I am
> using blue painters tape instead of kapton though. The trick is to get
> good adhesion for the first couple layers. I set my HBP to 120 and
> watch/adjust my first couple of layers manually to make sure I can get
> it to stick.
>
> I am not sure if its just me, but I can't ge the raftless plug-in to
> work in RepG 19. I had it working in RepG 18 and it was def beneficial
> to be able to adjust the speed of the first layer.
but pretty good) with the SkeinForge from SkeinFox if I configure it
to slow down the horizontal speed and draw a lead-in line of plastic
to get the ABS flowing. I had hoped that the raftless config in RepG
would do these things by default, but it seems to jump right into
drawing the first layer in its gcode. Perhaps if my extruder flow was
more responsive and platform more adhesive it would just work...
> And I havn't got the ABP yet, hopefully soon though.
custom caps (design to thingiverse soon) for my wife to cover the
points on her crampons and ice climbing tools. Turns out I need 22
identical caps printed, so this would be the perfect use of the ABP.
As it is, I'm just using the Multiply plugin in SkeinForge to do 4 at
a time, and enjoying the reliability of the MK5 for long print
sessions. (My MK4 was failing frequently enough that it would be
madness to try to print 4 parts at once and probably blow all 4 when
the extruder jammed 70% of the way through the print.)
daniel barrero
Sep 19, 2010, 12:31:40 PM9/19/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
To print raftless with my HBP I'm actually printing with the raft
option turned On, and zero raft and zero interface layers and it works
pretty well with the default temps from the skeinforge in ReplicatorG
18 and 19, this trick even worked well to print raftless objects on
the non heated acrylic platform when I had to take out the HPB as one
time I put the head too low and ripped out a piece of the kapton
surface. It is even working really well with my temporary hack of
covering the HBP with kapton tape barely sanded (I ordered a bunch of
spare kapton surfaces but they haven't arrived yet).
option turned On, and zero raft and zero interface layers and it works
pretty well with the default temps from the skeinforge in ReplicatorG
18 and 19, this trick even worked well to print raftless objects on
the non heated acrylic platform when I had to take out the HPB as one
time I put the head too low and ripped out a piece of the kapton
surface. It is even working really well with my temporary hack of
covering the HBP with kapton tape barely sanded (I ordered a bunch of
spare kapton surfaces but they haven't arrived yet).
The standard kapton surface used to work really well, and after a bit
of sanding incredibly well, actually so much that the ABS stuck so
well to it that I had to wait until the platform cooled down almost
completely to be able to remove the object, and I still needed to
apply lots of force sometimes to be able to remove it. I think that
I'm not going to sand the kapton surface at all when the replacement
arrives.
Daniel
Makerbot # 1810
Vancouver, Canada
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Theron Trowbridge
Sep 19, 2010, 1:03:46 PM9/19/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
I've been printing with the Mk5 on the HBP, with painters tape, using a raft because I have the same problem - the first little bit of anything is screwed up, and I'd rather screw up the raft than the object. If the raft lays down right, the object is going to be fine.
I had the idea that I wouldn't need a raft if the extruder started out somewhere outside the object (I think 20-30 mm would be safe) and moved in a straight line toward it, preferably at the same angle as the first line of the object, and then proceeded to extrude layer 1. I've been too busy tuning the setup and learning what things do in Skeinforge (thanks to all the helpful people posting information here) to figure out gcode enough to do a manual test. Ideally, this would be a part of Skeinforge, a kind of min-raftless plug-in.
The Spacexula raftless tail is very interesting, since it would work with almost any object automatically. I'm glad to see that other people have been thinking along the same lines. It's may be overkill, and I don't have countersunk bolts, yet, but maybe it's time to do that.
I noticed that the assembly instructions for the ABP indicate that the heat spreader is a piece of die cut foil, not an aluminum plate. Is this changing in the HBP, too? It would make the countersinking part a little more difficult (you'd have to countersink into the PCB.
-Theron
^
I had the idea that I wouldn't need a raft if the extruder started out somewhere outside the object (I think 20-30 mm would be safe) and moved in a straight line toward it, preferably at the same angle as the first line of the object, and then proceeded to extrude layer 1. I've been too busy tuning the setup and learning what things do in Skeinforge (thanks to all the helpful people posting information here) to figure out gcode enough to do a manual test. Ideally, this would be a part of Skeinforge, a kind of min-raftless plug-in.
The Spacexula raftless tail is very interesting, since it would work with almost any object automatically. I'm glad to see that other people have been thinking along the same lines. It's may be overkill, and I don't have countersunk bolts, yet, but maybe it's time to do that.
I noticed that the assembly instructions for the ABP indicate that the heat spreader is a piece of die cut foil, not an aluminum plate. Is this changing in the HBP, too? It would make the countersinking part a little more difficult (you'd have to countersink into the PCB.
-Theron
^
Gian Pablo
Sep 19, 2010, 1:28:44 PM9/19/10
to MakerBot Operators
Have you tried using the thin Kapton from Minnesota Vacuum (on eBay)
or from DealExtreme? I used to have issues with raftless printing that
sound just like yours - the ABS would just form a tangle around the
nozzle. With the eBay Kapton, and no other changes, the ABS just
sticks to the platform.
or from DealExtreme? I used to have issues with raftless printing that
sound just like yours - the ABS would just form a tangle around the
nozzle. With the eBay Kapton, and no other changes, the ABS just
sticks to the platform.
Joheinz
Sep 19, 2010, 4:50:54 PM9/19/10
to makerbot
You should also consider using the raftless plugin - see
http://pleasantsoftware.com/developer/3d/2009/12/05/raftless/ for
information and details. It requires some setting up, but it is worth
having a look.
http://pleasantsoftware.com/developer/3d/2009/12/05/raftless/ for
information and details. It requires some setting up, but it is worth
having a look.
Markus
2010/9/19 Gian Pablo <gian....@gmail.com>:
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Theron Trowbridge
Sep 19, 2010, 10:53:39 PM9/19/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
The Extrusion Intro is exactly what I've been thinking about. Didn't know the raftless plug-in did this.
So, I downloaded raftless.py, and start following the install instructions until I came to: "Then edit skeinforge_tool/profile_plugins/extrusion.py "
Unfortunately it's a compiled Python file (extrusion.pyc) and I can't edit it. Is there another place to edit the tool chain?
I'm using RepG 0019 on Ubuntu. (It's the same on RepG 0018 is the same way.) Am I missing something?
-Theron
^
So, I downloaded raftless.py, and start following the install instructions until I came to: "Then edit skeinforge_tool/profile_plugins/extrusion.py "
Unfortunately it's a compiled Python file (extrusion.pyc) and I can't edit it. Is there another place to edit the tool chain?
I'm using RepG 0019 on Ubuntu. (It's the same on RepG 0018 is the same way.) Am I missing something?
-Theron
^
Joheinz
Sep 20, 2010, 1:09:59 AM9/20/10
to makerbot
The way I did it, was that I got skeinforge from source. I do not know
if the skeinforge version included in the source version od RepG
contains the python files as well and if it compatible with
raftless.py. I am also just starting to use it.
if the skeinforge version included in the source version od RepG
contains the python files as well and if it compatible with
raftless.py. I am also just starting to use it.
Markus
2010/9/20 Theron Trowbridge <theron.t...@gmail.com>:
Koen Kooi
Sep 20, 2010, 3:19:25 AM9/20/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
I'm using this patch: http://github.com/koenkooi/ReplicatorG/commit/c0d14c47e9d96981e46fc155ba9f53a2c81e5905 to get it into repG 0019
regards,
Koen
Theron Trowbridge
Sep 20, 2010, 4:49:40 AM9/20/10
to make...@googlegroups.com
Thank you so much. That seems to work here on my Mac. The bot is at CRASH Space, so I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.
-Theron
^
-Theron
^
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