0.4mm nozzle
33 views
Skip to first unread message
Rick
Sep 29, 2009, 11:09:02 AM9/29/09
to MakerBot Operators
...burned through a lot of PTFE to get this nozzle working ;)
Objects photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3965512925/
Nozzle photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3951520841/
These are the best results I've had so far.
Temp used when printing is 215C. Flow rate is between 230 - 240. Feed
rate varies depending on object 20 - 45.
No ceramic tape is used. It would not work when the tube/nozzle were
wrapped. It is used exactly as you see in the photo. Also, for this
nozzle, I generally remove the filament when I shut the machine down
and I frequently back the filament up for a few seconds before
starting a print job. It works at 255 but 230-240 seem to be more
reliable.
The nozzle works reliably and consistently now but the nozzle tip
needs to be a little longer. When the base of the nozzle rubs across
the build it results in the little brown spots you can see in the
photo. Have now printed nearly continuously for several hours.
The key in the photo is the infamous http://ke.y.nu/. Still not
perfect but the best one I've managed so far. Anyone having any luck
printing this? The other objects are assorted items from Thingiverse.
Next step is to figure out how to improve overall MB print quality. It
still has a very tough time printing small loops like the teapot spout/
handle and the ring portion of the key. Any suggestions?
Objects photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3965512925/
Nozzle photo here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3951520841/
These are the best results I've had so far.
Temp used when printing is 215C. Flow rate is between 230 - 240. Feed
rate varies depending on object 20 - 45.
No ceramic tape is used. It would not work when the tube/nozzle were
wrapped. It is used exactly as you see in the photo. Also, for this
nozzle, I generally remove the filament when I shut the machine down
and I frequently back the filament up for a few seconds before
starting a print job. It works at 255 but 230-240 seem to be more
reliable.
The nozzle works reliably and consistently now but the nozzle tip
needs to be a little longer. When the base of the nozzle rubs across
the build it results in the little brown spots you can see in the
photo. Have now printed nearly continuously for several hours.
The key in the photo is the infamous http://ke.y.nu/. Still not
perfect but the best one I've managed so far. Anyone having any luck
printing this? The other objects are assorted items from Thingiverse.
Next step is to figure out how to improve overall MB print quality. It
still has a very tough time printing small loops like the teapot spout/
handle and the ring portion of the key. Any suggestions?
TeamTeamUSA
Sep 29, 2009, 3:38:48 PM9/29/09
to MakerBot Operators
Looks good. I'm adding a nut to mine as well, but am keeping the
ceramic tape.
What do you mean by "It would not work..."? It wouldn't heat up? It
wouldn't extrude?
Go!
=ml=
On Sep 29, 8:09 am, Rick <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...burned through a lot of PTFE to get this nozzle working ;)
>
> Objects photo here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3965512925/
>
> Nozzle photo here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3951520841/
>
> These are the best results I've had so far.
>
> Temp used when printing is 215C. Flow rate is between 230 - 240. Feed
> rate varies depending on object 20 - 45.
> No ceramic tape is used. It would not work when the tube/nozzle were
> wrapped. It is used exactly as you see in the photo. Also, for this
> nozzle, I generally remove the filament when I shut the machine down
> and I frequently back the filament up for a few seconds before
> starting a print job. It works at 255 but 230-240 seem to be more
> reliable.
>
> The nozzle works reliably and consistently now but the nozzle tip
> needs to be a little longer. When the base of the nozzle rubs across
> the build it results in the little brown spots you can see in the
> photo. Have now printed nearly continuously for several hours.
>
> The key in the photo is the infamoushttp://ke.y.nu/. Still not
ceramic tape.
What do you mean by "It would not work..."? It wouldn't heat up? It
wouldn't extrude?
Go!
=ml=
On Sep 29, 8:09 am, Rick <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...burned through a lot of PTFE to get this nozzle working ;)
>
> Objects photo here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3965512925/
>
> Nozzle photo here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3951520841/
>
> These are the best results I've had so far.
>
> Temp used when printing is 215C. Flow rate is between 230 - 240. Feed
> rate varies depending on object 20 - 45.
> No ceramic tape is used. It would not work when the tube/nozzle were
> wrapped. It is used exactly as you see in the photo. Also, for this
> nozzle, I generally remove the filament when I shut the machine down
> and I frequently back the filament up for a few seconds before
> starting a print job. It works at 255 but 230-240 seem to be more
> reliable.
>
> The nozzle works reliably and consistently now but the nozzle tip
> needs to be a little longer. When the base of the nozzle rubs across
> the build it results in the little brown spots you can see in the
> photo. Have now printed nearly continuously for several hours.
>
Rick Pollack
Sep 29, 2009, 3:57:52 PM9/29/09
to make...@googlegroups.com
You fabricated a 0.4mm nozzle or are you referring to the standard 0.5mm nozzle?
TeamTeamUSA
Sep 30, 2009, 3:21:51 PM9/30/09
to MakerBot Operators
My bad. I thought the new MB nozzles were 0.4 mm.
How'd you fab a 0.4 mm nozzle? Do you have a mill or lathe? Or did you
have it made?
Go!
=ml=
On Sep 29, 12:57 pm, Rick Pollack <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You fabricated a 0.4mm nozzle or are you referring to the standard 0.5mm
> nozzle?
>
How'd you fab a 0.4 mm nozzle? Do you have a mill or lathe? Or did you
have it made?
Go!
=ml=
On Sep 29, 12:57 pm, Rick Pollack <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You fabricated a 0.4mm nozzle or are you referring to the standard 0.5mm
> nozzle?
>
Rick
Oct 1, 2009, 10:13:56 AM10/1/09
to MakerBot Operators
No problem. I made it on a Taig micro lathe. Just sharing the results
as it has made a big improvement on smaller objects. I'm going to do a
0.3 or 0.35 next.
as it has made a big improvement on smaller objects. I'm going to do a
0.3 or 0.35 next.
Rick Pollack
Oct 9, 2009, 1:37:55 AM10/9/09
to MakerBot Operators
Nozzle and Extruder Update:
The 0.4 nozzle is working great now. I typically run it at a 255 flow rate without issue (was listed at a slower flow rate in earlier post). It may be of interest that even with the smaller nozzle diameter this extruder runs without a 625 bearing on the motor and the filament is only tightened to about ~2.5mm (see photos). I am also not using a 625 bearing on my 0.5mm (standard MB diameter) extruder and it is also only tightened to about 2.5mm. The 0.4 extruder runs in the 215C to 220C range and the 0.5 extruder runs in the 205C to 220C range.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994126765/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994888832/sizes/l/in/photostream/
There has been a lot of discussion here about heat issues with extruders - filament hardening at the tube opening, filament getting into the PTFE, etc. There has not been much (if any) discussion about how the typical use of ceramic tape impacts this. The 0.4 was barely working until I removed the ceramic tape. Without ceramic tape it runs great. Simply reducing the amount of ceramic tape you are using to just enough to protect you and the bot from the red-hot nichrome is probably enough. If you build an extruder and it does not work just try removing the ceramic tape and see what a difference that makes. Mashing the filament (to the point it damages the motor without a bearing) is a brute force solution to a problem that can probably be solved by better ceramic tape management.
I also have a working 0.35mm nozzle that has a slightly different design from the other diameters. This is the first nozzle where I've needed the 625 motor bearing (see photo). You can see the ABS being squeezed out of the threads between the nozzle and the brass tube - with teflon tape wrapped around the threads - that is some pretty serious pressure! With this nozzle brute force is the only way I've been able to get it working consistently so far but I will continue to tweak the variables to see if there is a sweet spot. It runs at 230C at a 200 - 210 flow rate (the extruder motor seems to stall for me at a flow rate of ~190). This nozzle printed the pinch wheel pulleys posted on Thingiverse at 0.15 mm layer thickness. [A MakerBot record!!]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994887710/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Here are the standard mods for all the extruders I'm making:
- remove outer flange on pinch wheel pulley (if you are not using a 625 bearing you can see exactly what is happening when the pulley meets the filament and you can also clean [or floss as Clothbot would phrase it] the pulley teeth without disassembling the extruder)
- 4.5 to 5mm idler wheel (either two glued together or one 3/16" wheel, not glued to the bearing)
- metal washers around the PTFE (not using the acrylic insulator mount)
- M6 nut above the lower washer to take pressure off PTFE insulator
Priority extruder issue:
- acrylic connection between nozzle segment and extruder body (the two nuts embedded in the 3/16" acrylic) broke once while running the 0.35 nozzle. This is a weak link at higher pressures.
I'm planning to do at least one smaller size nozzle then do what I can to tweak the X/Y accuracy and performance and then maybe work on some alternate extruder designs. You can see some of the results to date: http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994887508/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Rick
The 0.4 nozzle is working great now. I typically run it at a 255 flow rate without issue (was listed at a slower flow rate in earlier post). It may be of interest that even with the smaller nozzle diameter this extruder runs without a 625 bearing on the motor and the filament is only tightened to about ~2.5mm (see photos). I am also not using a 625 bearing on my 0.5mm (standard MB diameter) extruder and it is also only tightened to about 2.5mm. The 0.4 extruder runs in the 215C to 220C range and the 0.5 extruder runs in the 205C to 220C range.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994126765/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994888832/sizes/l/in/photostream/
There has been a lot of discussion here about heat issues with extruders - filament hardening at the tube opening, filament getting into the PTFE, etc. There has not been much (if any) discussion about how the typical use of ceramic tape impacts this. The 0.4 was barely working until I removed the ceramic tape. Without ceramic tape it runs great. Simply reducing the amount of ceramic tape you are using to just enough to protect you and the bot from the red-hot nichrome is probably enough. If you build an extruder and it does not work just try removing the ceramic tape and see what a difference that makes. Mashing the filament (to the point it damages the motor without a bearing) is a brute force solution to a problem that can probably be solved by better ceramic tape management.
I also have a working 0.35mm nozzle that has a slightly different design from the other diameters. This is the first nozzle where I've needed the 625 motor bearing (see photo). You can see the ABS being squeezed out of the threads between the nozzle and the brass tube - with teflon tape wrapped around the threads - that is some pretty serious pressure! With this nozzle brute force is the only way I've been able to get it working consistently so far but I will continue to tweak the variables to see if there is a sweet spot. It runs at 230C at a 200 - 210 flow rate (the extruder motor seems to stall for me at a flow rate of ~190). This nozzle printed the pinch wheel pulleys posted on Thingiverse at 0.15 mm layer thickness. [A MakerBot record!!]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994887710/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Here are the standard mods for all the extruders I'm making:
- remove outer flange on pinch wheel pulley (if you are not using a 625 bearing you can see exactly what is happening when the pulley meets the filament and you can also clean [or floss as Clothbot would phrase it] the pulley teeth without disassembling the extruder)
- 4.5 to 5mm idler wheel (either two glued together or one 3/16" wheel, not glued to the bearing)
- metal washers around the PTFE (not using the acrylic insulator mount)
- M6 nut above the lower washer to take pressure off PTFE insulator
Priority extruder issue:
- acrylic connection between nozzle segment and extruder body (the two nuts embedded in the 3/16" acrylic) broke once while running the 0.35 nozzle. This is a weak link at higher pressures.
I'm planning to do at least one smaller size nozzle then do what I can to tweak the X/Y accuracy and performance and then maybe work on some alternate extruder designs. You can see some of the results to date: http://www.flickr.com/photos/makergear/3994887508/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Rick
Andrew Plumb
Oct 9, 2009, 8:53:22 AM10/9/09
to make...@googlegroups.com
On 9-Oct-09, at 1:37 AM, Rick Pollack wrote:
[deletia]
> Here are the standard mods for all the extruders I'm making:
>
> - remove outer flange on pinch wheel pulley (if you are not using a
> 625 bearing you can see exactly what is happening when the pulley
> meets the filament and you can also clean [or floss as Clothbot
> would phrase it] the pulley teeth without disassembling the extruder)
[rest deletia]
[deletia]
> Here are the standard mods for all the extruders I'm making:
>
> - remove outer flange on pinch wheel pulley (if you are not using a
> 625 bearing you can see exactly what is happening when the pulley
> meets the filament and you can also clean [or floss as Clothbot
> would phrase it] the pulley teeth without disassembling the extruder)
Oooh, that's a good one. I'm fast approaching floss-time yet again
and disassembling the extruder to gain access is a real pain.
Re. removing the ceramic tape for better performance. Maybe trim the
z-platform hole edge with it instead to give the platform some heat
shielding?
Re. the smaller nozzle diameters, is there any advantage to graduated
tapering to manage the pressure requirements? E.g. pass 3mm through
2mm dia. x 2mm long, then 1mm*2mm, then 0.5mm*2mm, then final
extrusion diameter? Or is that what you're already doing?
Andrew.
--
"The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed"
-- William Gibson
Rick Pollack
Oct 9, 2009, 12:41:14 PM10/9/09
to make...@googlegroups.com
I don't t know if the build platform needs to be lined, the concern is your hand coming into contact with the glowing nichrome. I've managed to touch the tip a couple of times while reaching in to make an adjustment...ouch!! Actually touching exposed filament? Yikes! Also, that filament could come into contact with something if there is a malfunction...dbl yikes!!
I try to taper the hole a little but as the diameter gets smaller, the harder it gets. I was rather impressed that the plastic could be squeezed out through the brass threads - I wasn't expecting to see that! (Maybe I need to get a better tap) At this point, though, my focus is getting the print quality that I need to print small objects with fine detail. Once I know a) the bot can do it and b) how to do it, then I will back up and try to streamline things...
Tips/advice/suggestions/comments/etc are welcome and appreciated.
Rick
I try to taper the hole a little but as the diameter gets smaller, the harder it gets. I was rather impressed that the plastic could be squeezed out through the brass threads - I wasn't expecting to see that! (Maybe I need to get a better tap) At this point, though, my focus is getting the print quality that I need to print small objects with fine detail. Once I know a) the bot can do it and b) how to do it, then I will back up and try to streamline things...
Tips/advice/suggestions/comments/etc are welcome and appreciated.
Rick
rbisping
Oct 9, 2009, 11:21:30 PM10/9/09
to MakerBot Operators
I have been working on a extruder design that uses a standard nordson
glue nozzel as the tip. these come in .018in(.457mm) .016(.406mm) .012
(.304mm) and .008 (.203mm) and ive had some minor success but the ptfe
just cant handle the higher pressures required for the smaller tips so
i have been working on making both a stainless steel and a ceramic
insulator. just recieved the ceramic blank from mcmaster today so have
to get it machined as soon as possible.
Note: these tips are threaded 3/8-24 and since they work well on a
high pressure industrial glue system i figure that its a good place to
start for the barrel hole also. admitidly this does add a lot of
thermal mass to the extruder but i believe it will be worth it. Ill
keep everyone posted on my results.
glue nozzel as the tip. these come in .018in(.457mm) .016(.406mm) .012
(.304mm) and .008 (.203mm) and ive had some minor success but the ptfe
just cant handle the higher pressures required for the smaller tips so
i have been working on making both a stainless steel and a ceramic
insulator. just recieved the ceramic blank from mcmaster today so have
to get it machined as soon as possible.
Note: these tips are threaded 3/8-24 and since they work well on a
high pressure industrial glue system i figure that its a good place to
start for the barrel hole also. admitidly this does add a lot of
thermal mass to the extruder but i believe it will be worth it. Ill
keep everyone posted on my results.
Rick Pollack
Oct 10, 2009, 11:52:17 AM10/10/09
to make...@googlegroups.com
Very Cool. Do you have a link to the exact nozzles you are using and/or a photo of your extruder(s)?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by minor successes? And, would you elaborate on specifically how the PTFE is failing? Very interested to see your results...
Rick
Can you elaborate on what you mean by minor successes? And, would you elaborate on specifically how the PTFE is failing? Very interested to see your results...
Rick
Rick
Oct 10, 2009, 3:15:57 PM10/10/09
to MakerBot Operators
The 0.35mm nozzle is working great now - 255 flow at 225C - cracked
acrylic piece just needed to be replaced.
On Oct 10, 11:52 am, Rick Pollack <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very Cool. Do you have a link to the exact nozzles you are using and/or a
> photo of your extruder(s)?
>
> Can you elaborate on what you mean by minor successes? And, would you
> elaborate on specifically how the PTFE is failing? Very interested to see
> your results...
>
> Rick
>
acrylic piece just needed to be replaced.
On Oct 10, 11:52 am, Rick Pollack <rick.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very Cool. Do you have a link to the exact nozzles you are using and/or a
> photo of your extruder(s)?
>
> Can you elaborate on what you mean by minor successes? And, would you
> elaborate on specifically how the PTFE is failing? Very interested to see
> your results...
>
> Rick
>
TeamTeamUSA
Oct 10, 2009, 3:33:48 PM10/10/09
to MakerBot Operators
Looks like the nozzle race in on!
Can't wait to see what the results are...
Go!
=ml=
Can't wait to see what the results are...
Go!
=ml=
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages