[MakerBot] Feedback on Makerbot Output (how to fix it)

[Nathan Hilderman]

Hi,
My print looks OK except what was suppose to be square pads with holes
in the middle for M2 Bolts. When printing these square pads, way too
much plastic is coming out. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Any
other feedback on how to improve the print?

Thanks,
Nathan

[M.Rule]

can I see a snapshot of the .stl to see what exactly its supposed to look like ?

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[Nathan Hilderman]

See Attached.

Thanks!

[M.Rule]

those holes are very small, much smaller than anything I have ever been able to print ( but I'm not really up to full performance on my bot yet ). If you can easily edit that file, try changing the circles to hexagons or something, if it doesn't ruin the design, and maybe even widening it in the model. Increasing the parameter "perimeter inside stretch over perimeter width (ratio)" within the stretch plugin will also help with the holes. I am using a value of 2 which may be a bit much. The one problem I've noticed with the stretch plugin is that, while it moves circles and corners to print more faithfully, it doesn't actually reduce the amount of infill ( I think ) so in tight areas you can still get things goopy if the stretched perimeter piles up over the infill. Additionally, I've found that if the Comb plugin is used without calibrating oozbane, plastic that might be strings when traveling between pieces turns into goop if the toolpath passes over the print. So, that might help a little bit ? Also make sure everything is well calibrated ?

I'm one to talk; I just finished calibration (or so I thought) and went to try to print a gear, and it turned into a goopy mess. This is with a profile that looks slightly too sparse on the 20mm cube infill. Still need to check that this wasn't caused by missed steps in Z causing some layers to be close together, but ..

[Nathan Hilderman]

It looks like the makerbot slows down when printing those square bolt
pegs, but because the extruder is one speed, I can see how the plastic
builds up. What setting would cause that slowdown?
My 'test' squares also look a little sparse - so much for calibration.
Man does this waste a lot of time....

[M.Rule]

If you are interested in getting this piece finished reasonably soon I would say just remove those holes - they are too small for makerbot to deal with without a lot of tweaking, and add them after the fact with a drill press. 

I might try

-- simplifying the holes to have hexagonal perimeters

-- making them slightly larger

-- turning off comb until you get oozebane working well

-- see if your perimeter feed rate is slowed down relative to your infill feed rate. while this may make the perimeter nicer looking, it will also make areas that have a lot of perimeter pile up

-- similarly, with 'infill - perimeter overlap' - if this is too large, the accumulation of excess plastic where the perimeter meets infill can pile up into goop

For more calibration specifics and trick I must defer to more senior members of this group.

[ddurant]

This is a model you made? With tiny circles like those, you probably
don't want them to have more than a dozen sides. Or even less - I
doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between a 12 and an 8 sided
M2 hole. The less often you *don't* give the machine more resolution
it can print, the happier it will be.

See also: http://github.com/makerbot/ReplicatorG/issues/issue/42 and
http://github.com/makerbot/ReplicatorG/issues#issue/43.


On Aug 13, 11:47 pm, Nathan Hilderman <nathan.hilder...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[ddurant]

> The less often you *don't* give the machine more resolution
> it can print, the happier it will be.

Arg.. Long week.. Let me try that again..

If you give it more resolution it can deal with, it may become cross
with you.

On Aug 14, 12:03 am, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a model you made? With tiny circles like those, you probably
> don't want them to have more than a dozen sides. Or even less - I
> doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between a 12 and an 8 sided
> M2 hole. The less often you *don't* give the machine more resolution
> it can print, the happier it will be.
>

> See also:http://github.com/makerbot/ReplicatorG/issues/issue/42andhttp://github.com/makerbot/ReplicatorG/issues#issue/43.

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[M.Rule]

I would say that I've never gotten a hole smaller than 4mm to print on my bot. Goop seems to be a real problem. Also, I think that with holes smaller than 4mm, the perimeter becomes so short nothing could help skeinforge figure out how to lay down the plastic properly. The extruder is inherently sluggish in its response, and it is difficult to get the 'turn on' 'turn off' timing correct for very short perimeters that would be involved in printing small circles.

@ddurant : you imply that 2,3 diameter holes are printable on makerbot ?

[ddurant]

> @ddurant : you imply that 2,3 diameter holes are printable on makerbot ?

I've never tried printing M2 bolt holes before.

I do know that I (and lots of others!) have printed lots of things
with M3 bolt holes, though - thingiverse.com is full of things with
those in 'em.

> >> >> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:18 PM, M.Rule <mrule7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > can I see a snapshot of the .stl to see what exactly its supposed to
> >> >> > look
> >> >> > like ?
>
> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Nathan Hilderman
> >> >> > <nathan.hilder...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >> My print looks OK except what was suppose to be square pads with
> >> holes
> >> >> >> in the middle for M2 Bolts. When printing these square pads, way too
> >> >> >> much plastic is coming out. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Any
> >> >> >> other feedback on how to improve the print?
>
> >> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> >> Nathan
>
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[Nathan Hilderman]

OK thanks everyone for the feedback. Yes it is my design. I don't care
too much about the holes, I'll just drill them in afterwards. I'll
remove the holes and see what happens :)

Nathan

[Damon]

I'm interested to hear how it turns out. I had the same problem when
trying to print this z-axis handle:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:975

The tall knob got all goopy when I tried to print it. It doesn't have
a hole there, so I think the problem may have been trying to print via
the TTL cable. When my bot is up and running again, I'll try doing the
print from the SD card.

Damon

--
http://www.damonkohler.com/

[Thomas Mahady]

well there the problem is the same. Tight curves.

On Aug 14, 2010, at 3:43 AM, Damon wrote:

> I'm interested to hear how it turns out. I had the same problem when
> trying to print this z-axis handle:
>
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:975
>
> The tall knob got all goopy when I tried to print it. It doesn't have
> a hole there, so I think the problem may have been trying to print via
> the TTL cable. When my bot is up and running again, I'll try doing the
> print from the SD card.
>
> Damon
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Nathan Hilderman
> <nathan.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK thanks everyone for the feedback. Yes it is my design. I don't care
>> too much about the holes, I'll just drill them in afterwards. I'll
>> remove the holes and see what happens :)
>>
>> Nathan
>>

--------------------------------
Makerbot #441
Thomas Mahady
tma...@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/onikaze
Pittsburgh PA
USA

[Damon]

So, since I'm less interested in getting this out the door quickly,
are there some things I should pay attention to when calibrating to be
able to handle prints like this?

[Cathal Garvey]

Printing from SD card can make a huge difference on the resolution of small holes or circles.
This is for the same reason that it's suggested you reduce the complexity to a hexagon or similar; the bot awaits instructions before printing the next "line" of the circle perimeter. Because it can read faster from an SD card than it can receive instructions over the cable, it can handle finer resolution without issue.

I have had few issues at all, certainly none to speak of, printing 3mm holes. I expect that with a little patience I could get it down to 2 by reducing perimeter complexity and printing from SD.

On 14 August 2010 08:50, Damon <damon...@gmail.com> wrote:

So, since I'm less interested in getting this out the door quickly,
are there some things I should pay attention to when calibrating to be
able to handle prints like this?

--
letters.cunningprojects.com
twitter.com/onetruecathal
twitter.com/labsfromfabs

[Nathan Hilderman]

Hi,
When I removed the holes for the m2 nuts, my problem disappeared.
Thanks for the suggestions.

Nathan

[ddurant]

> When I removed the holes for the m2 nuts, my problem disappeared.

What software did you use to make the model? I'm pretty horrible at 3D
programs but somebody here could probably give you tips on how to make
tiny holes printable... A little work up front could mean an easier
job later - cleaning up a hole rather than drilling it from scratch.

And/or, try printing from an SD card, which doesn't take much effort
at all..


On Aug 14, 12:06 pm, Nathan Hilderman <nathan.hilder...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
> When I removed the holes for the m2 nuts, my problem disappeared.
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> Nathan
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Printing from SD card can make a huge difference on the resolution of small
> > holes or circles.
> > This is for the same reason that it's suggested you reduce the complexity to
> > a hexagon or similar; the bot awaits instructions before printing the next
> > "line" of the circle perimeter. Because it can read faster from an SD card
> > than it can receive instructions over the cable, it can handle finer
> > resolution without issue.
>
> > I have had few issues at all, certainly none to speak of, printing 3mm
> > holes. I expect that with a little patience I could get it down to 2 by
> > reducing perimeter complexity and printing from SD.
>

> > On 14 August 2010 08:50, Damon <damonkoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> So, since I'm less interested in getting this out the door quickly,
> >> are there some things I should pay attention to when calibrating to be
> >> able to handle prints like this?
>
> > --
> > letters.cunningprojects.com
> > twitter.com/onetruecathal
> > twitter.com/labsfromfabs
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > For more options, visit this group at

[Gian Pablo]

Print from SD card, enable Unpause plugin in Skeinforge. Both of these
should help.

On Aug 13, 8:07 pm, Nathan Hilderman <nathan.hilder...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  MakerBot_Nathan.jpg
> 158KViewDownload

[Nathan Hilderman]

I am using Sketchup. I will experiment with hexagon holes next.

[Rob Giseburt]

For that small of a hole, a square will probably get rounded off
enough to do anyway.

I've found that if you can incorporate the inner hole with the outer
shell (or any larger shell) then you will do better. The less the
extruder has to start/stop, the better.

To see what I mean, see the Cupcake Tool that I designed:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2444

I did the holes normally at first, and my bot couldn't print them.
(I've tuned a lot since. I think it'd still be a mess.) I added
channels to the outside shell and most of the problems went away.

Just an idea.

-Rob

On Aug 14, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Nathan Hilderman