Getting started with SF44

[Bruce Jones]

I have a TOM with a mk6+ and I've been doing some searching and
reading on SF44 and the Dimension plugin. I'd like to try it out but I
still have a few questions.

How to measure steps per mm? I've read that I have to measure the
filament going in and compare that to how much the bot was instructed
to pull in, but how do I go about that? How do those lengths relate to
steps per mm?

When I choose SF44 as my gcode generator and hit generate gcode, a
window pops up with print-o-matic settings, do I enable this as well
as dimension?

Whats a good base profile to use for SF44? I see a TOM SF40 profile
but not 44.

Regards,
Bruce

[Len Trigg]

I do it using the control panel, making measurements of the amount of
filament actually consumed in comparison with what was requested.

First get your extruder up to temp.

Take a ruler and a sharpie, make a mark on the filament say 30cm up
from where it enters the extruder.

From the control panel, tell the extruder to extrude 50mm of filament,
and once it's done, use your ruler to measure how much was actually
taken in (just by subtracting from the original distance from top of
extruder to the mark you made).

If for example it only consumed 40mm of filament when asked to extrude
50mm, you need to tell repg to send a factor of 50/40 more steps.

So, edit the extruder axis scale parameter in your machine xml file to
be oldscale * requested_extrusion / actual_extrusion.

Restart replicatorg and repeat the process until the amount requested
matches the amount consumed.

(if you want more precision, do it with a larger length of extrusion,
say 100mm).

Cheers,
Len.

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[ddurant]

>  (if you want more precision, do it with a larger length of extrusion, say 100mm).

 

It'd be nice if MBI supplied this data..

[Rob Giseburt]

The steps per mm is, afaik, the same for Mk6, Mk6+, and Mk7 extruders. It's already in the TOM and 3G 5D Shield machines files for these extruders.

This is readily available information. You should only need to measure if you are using a non-standard extruder setup or are not on a Makerbot. 

  -Rob

On Dec 11, 2011, at 6:08 PM, ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  (if you want more precision, do it with a larger length of extrusion, say 100mm).

 

It'd be nice if MBI supplied this data..

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[David Wilson]

I've been testing 44 today.

Some forward progress.

I've manually edited the start and end gcode files. At one stage the print head crashed into the build platform (unedited start file). So I grabbed some stuff from my SF35 start file and used that. So that's fixed. Also the end position of the platform was at the rear of the Makerbot, so I took the appropriate commands from the SF35 end and fixed that.

Until I find the next issue the one that remains is that too much product is being extruded when the print is in progress. So much in fact that the extruder gear slips of the plastic it's trying to push out. The extruded plastic is zoo much that it comes out about 3-4 times wider than it should.

I'm printing with PLA.

I've been trying to find the right settings to change… and have not succeeded. When I stop the print and go to the control panel to lift the print head, the stepper speed is 5.00 (always). Under SF35 this usually was 1.98 (I think).

- David

[Bruce Jones]

Thanks for your responses, is there anything I have to change with the
driver for the 5D stuff?

Also, I needed to print yesterday so after updating the firmware and
moving to replicatorg 29 i moved back to SF35. Firstly, even though I
selected one of my previous profiles, all of the settings had gone
back to default. But much much worse, I did a print that was supposed
to be 40mm tall, and it came out at only 18mm tall! everything looked
fine in x/y and the extruder head was at 18mm when it finished, it
just looked like it had been squished, print quality was questionable.
Any ideas?

[Robert Hunt]

It could be that your Z-Axis is not being held during the print and
only being turned on for the movements. With the recent firmware
updates there was some reports of the "Hold Z" settings getting
corrupted in the onboard settings. The solution is to toggle the
setting off, save and then turn it back on then save again.

[Robert Hunt]

Can anyone explain how the "stepspermm" value is calculated. There is
a comment in the XML file but it doesn't really explain the
calculation is done.

<axis id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="1600"
stepspermm="50.235478806907409" endstops="none"/><!-- stepspermm is
incoming filament length, 127 is ca. 4 RPM, 1600 ca. 50 RPM -->

On Dec 12, 12:35 am, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The steps per mm is, afaik, the same for Mk6, Mk6+, and Mk7 extruders. It's
> already in the TOM and 3G 5D Shield machines files for these extruders.
>
> This is readily available information. You should only need to measure if
> you are using a non-standard extruder setup or are not on a Makerbot.
>
>   -Rob
>

> On Dec 11, 2011, at 6:08 PM, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  (if you want more precision, do it with a larger length of extrusion,
>
> say 100mm).
>
> It'd be nice if MBI supplied this data..
>
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[Gian Pablo]

I'm getting this too. Way way too much filament is being extruded, and as far as I can tell my steps per mm value is correct.

[The Ruttmeister]

On Dec 12, 9:25 am, Gian Pablo <gian.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm getting this too. Way way too much filament is being extruded, and as
> far as I can tell my steps per mm value is correct.

Are you using Dimension? If so check that in the speed tab your feed
and flow rates match. Took me an age to find that tidbit of vital
information. If they don't match it means E values get scaled by the
effective ratio of the 2.
For some reason it doesn't tell you about that in the dimension help
page...

[Aaron Double]

The other thing to check is to make sure that your XML file step amount is correct for your A axis. If you are using an 1/8th step driver (makerbot) but have 1/16th step info, you will end up extruding twice as fast as you should.

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[Joheinz]

In order to empirically calculate the correct steps per mm google for
Josef prusa calculator. I am currently on my phone and can't do the search for you. Markus

Am 12.12.2011 20:25 schrieb "Aaron Double" <aad...@gmail.com>:

The other thing to check is to make sure that your XML file step amount is correct for your A axis. If you are using an 1/8th step driver (makerbot) but have 1/16th step info, you will end up extruding twice as fast as you should.

On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:20 PM, The Ruttmeister <type...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
>

> On Dec 12, 9...

[David Sharp]

Make sure the filament diameter in Dimension matches reality.  If you tell it that you have a 1.75mm filament but are using 3mm filament, you'll get too much plastic.

[Gian Pablo]

Yep, both values are set the same (32).  Weirdly it works great for 0.4mm but not for 0.25mm layer spacing. I am thinking the steps/mm value might be messed up.

[David Wilson]

Where is the XML file?

Apologies for the dumb question.

- David

[David Wilson]

OK, still not sure where the file is on my Mac… but have installed RepG 0029 and looked at machine information to get the information below:

/Applications/ReplicatorG/machines/thingomatic.xml

I've just completely replaced the contents of my ReplicatorG folder when I upgraded to 0029.
If this is the file… that's cool… I never modified it before.

How does the stepspermm calculation work?
Now looking for calculations for this across the inter webs…

- David

<geometry type="cartesian">
<!-- different pulleys on X and Y axii -->
<axis endstops="min" homingfeedrate="500" id="x" length="106" maxfeedrate="4000" stepspermm="47.069852"/> <!-- Pulley dia: 10.82mm / 1/8 step = 1/(10.82 * pi / 1600) -->
<axis endstops="min" homingfeedrate="500" id="y" length="120" maxfeedrate="4000" stepspermm="47.069852"/> <!-- Pulley dia: 10.82mm / 1/8 step = 1/(10.82 * pi / 1600) -->
<axis endstops="max" homingfeedrate="500" id="z" length="106" maxfeedrate="1000" stepspermm="200"/> <!-- TR-8x8 Z axis = 1/(8/1600) -->
<axis endstops="none" id="a" length="100000" maxfeedrate="1600" stepspermm="50.235478806907409"/> <!-- stepspermm is incoming filament length, 127 is ca. 4 RPM, 1600 ca. 50 RPM -->
</geometry>
<tools>
<tool automatedplatform="true" default_rpm="1.98" fan="true" heatedplatform="true" heater="true" material="abs" motor="true" motor_steps="1600" name="Stepstruder MK6" stepper_axis="a" type="extruder"/>
</tools>

On 13/12/2011, at 8:25 AM, Aaron Double wrote:

[David Wilson]

I set the A axis in thingomatic.xml to 1.98 (why - because that's the speed (RPM) that I want the stepper to run at…. and it didn't matter anyway for a test… I needed a change from 50.<10 decimal places!>)

I regenerated the geode file (don't know if I needed to or not)… and sett he build in progress.

Two pictures below show the output. The picture shows it almost completing one layer … it's shells are set to 1 (so goes around the object twice…) and you you can see how thick the output is.
So changing the A Axis made no difference… I know I've changed it because I created a new machine in the file and selected that machine before connecting to the printer. Also machine information (from the menu) confirms I've selected the right printer.

The second picture shows a photograph of the screen where Motor Speed is 5 RPM. After the various changes I've made and reversed etc… the Motor speed is 5 (not 1.98 - or there about).

- David

[The Ruttmeister]

Hmmmm... Methinks that something odd is going on. If everything was
correct then Dimension makes layer resolution changes trivial. If you
are getting issues related to that I think there might be something
more fundamental wrong.

[Greg Thorstad]

Have you done a check to see that what you are setting the motor speed to is
how fast it is turning?

We had an extruder controller that messed up and was doing twice the steps
even though the dip switch was set properly.

If you have not tested the an easy way to test is to pull the filament out
and put a mark on the pulley. In control panel set it to 1 RPM and run it
for 60 seconds. It should have made 1 turn.

Greg Thorstad, B. Comm.
Thorstad Computer/Thor3d.ca/Canadian Makerbot Distributor
Box 268
Outlook, SK
S0L 2N0
306 867-9596

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wilson" <dgwil...@gmail.com>
To: <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] Getting started with SF44

I set the A axis in thingomatic.xml to 1.98 (why - because that's the speed

(RPM) that I want the stepper to run at�. and it didn't matter anyway for a
test� I needed a change from 50.<10 decimal places!>)

I regenerated the geode file (don't know if I needed to or not)� and sett he
build in progress.

Two pictures below show the output. The picture shows it almost completing

one layer � it's shells are set to 1 (so goes around the object twice�) and

you you can see how thick the output is.

So changing the A Axis made no difference� I know I've changed it because I

created a new machine in the file and selected that machine before
connecting to the printer. Also machine information (from the menu) confirms
I've selected the right printer.

The second picture shows a photograph of the screen where Motor Speed is 5

RPM. After the various changes I've made and reversed etc� the Motor speed

is 5 (not 1.98 - or there about).

- David

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 13/12/2011, at 8:25 AM, Aaron Double wrote:

> The other thing to check is to make sure that your XML file step amount is
> correct for your A axis. If you are using an 1/8th step driver (makerbot)
> but have 1/16th step info, you will end up extruding twice as fast as you
> should.
>
> On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:20 PM, The Ruttmeister <type...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 12, 9:25 am, Gian Pablo <gian.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm getting this too. Way way too much filament is being extruded, and
>>> as
>>> far as I can tell my steps per mm value is correct.
>>
>> Are you using Dimension? If so check that in the speed tab your feed
>> and flow rates match. Took me an age to find that tidbit of vital
>> information. If they don't match it means E values get scaled by the
>> effective ratio of the 2.
>> For some reason it doesn't tell you about that in the dimension help
>> page...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ddurant]

> The steps per mm is, afaik, the same for Mk6, Mk6+, and Mk7 extruders. It's already in the TOM and 3G 5D Shield machines files for these extruders.

 
Excellent.

 

Having only read this thread sorta in passing, not in detail, I'm curious about the talk of needing to update the machines.xml (sic) and talk of extruder rpms.. Is that stuff actually needed if you're using dimension?

 

Is the extruder stepspermm attribute in the xml is now used by repg? I know it used to ignore the actual number and just take the presense of the attribute to mean that you had a stepper extruder instead of a DC extruder.

[ddurant]

>> It's already in the TOM and 3G 5D Shield machines files for these extruders.

> is the extruder stepspermm attribute in the xml is now used by repg?

 

Reading comprehension skillz == fail!

 

I'm still curious about the rest of it.. Sounds like people don't need to mess with that setting unless they've gone off the path or have flakey controllers. And the talk of RPM seems out of context, if SF44/dimension is the topic.

[The Ruttmeister]

I think the problem might be related to the fact that Makerbots
(unlike everything else) don't actually speak G-code. The xml file is
for converting your G-code down into s3g. I'm running RAMPS/Sprinter
and the XML driver is mostly wrong, but because RepG is actually
sending G-code (unlike when its talking to a Makerbot) it makes no
difference. Although its kind of annoying that every time I try to fab
an object RepG 29 stamps its little feet because the drivers max speed
is way below my actual travel speed (yes, I know, I just need to edit
the XML).

[Gian Pablo]

Yes, my guess is that at least two parameters are messed up, but in such a way that solving for a 0.4mm layer height happens to produce something reasonable. Moving away from it leads to increasing errors.

My other suspicion is that somehow ReplicatorG's interface to Skeinforge is messed up, and the code that manages raft/support/Printomatic is somehow overwriting some of the settings generated by Dimension. I get the sense that what is happening is that ONLY the layer height change got reflected, and that the extruder is actually running at the same speed as when it is at 0.4mm layer height.

I will try running skeinforge in standalone mode and see what that does.

[The Ruttmeister]

Are you actually using PoM? Because I'm running SF44 from inside RepG
and not having those issues.

If you do have PoM turned on then yes, it will cr*p all over the
dimension settings and such. PoM is just trying to crudely do the same
job as Dimension, the 2 should not be compatible in any way.

[Rob Giseburt]

If you see RPM controls in RepG, you have the wrong driver selected, and Dimension (or Skeinforge 44) won’t work properly. For Dimension, you need to change:

<driver name="makerbot4ga">

to
<driver name="makerbot4g”>

(The “a” needs to be removed.)

Also, if you are using an unmodified makerbot extruder and makerbot stepper controllers on a ToM, you will not need to modify the stepspermm.

-Rob

[Rob Giseburt]

When I added Skeinforge 44 to RepG, I rewrote the Print-O-Matic to work with it.

So, if you have Skeinforge 44 selected in RepG, the Print-O-Matic you see uses Dimension.

Skeinforge 44, without modification from the way it is in ReplicatorG, can not print using RPM.

I mentioned it already in this thread, but I’ll mention it again to consolidate the information:

To use Skeinforge 44 in ReplicatorG on Makerbot firmware, you need to change the driver in you XML settings file. The xml files for the 3G 5D Shield include 5D machine settings. For a Thing-O-Matic, you need to:

Open the {ReplicatorG Folder}/machines/thingomatic.xml file with a text editor and change:

<driver name="makerbot4ga”>

to

<driver name="makerbot4g">

(the “a” was removed)

Or, if you choose, you can put this (attached) file in the {ReplicatorG Folder}/machines/ folder instead:

[ddurant]

> <driver name="makerbot4g">

 

Not makerbotrg?? Soooo dispapointed..

 

:P

[Gian Pablo]

THANK YOU!

I created a new <machine> entry in thingomatic.xml called Thing-O-Matic 5D, so I can switch between the two.

[Gian Pablo]

Do you mind if I write this up for the Makerbot blog?

As far as I can see, getting SF44 working properly on a Thing-O-Matic involves:

1) Copying the start.gcode file (and possibly end.gcode) from a working SF35 profile (to get the homing code)

2) Modifying thingomatic.xml to use the makerbot4g driver

3) Measuring your filament

4) Enabling Dimension and entering your filament diameter

5) Update the packing density (0.85 for ABS)

In Print-O-Matic, do you enter a percentage eg. 85 or a fraction eg. 0.85 for the packing density?

[Rob Giseburt]

No, I don’t mind if you use any of this for the Makerbot blog. :)

There’s a little more to it that that, though.

1) Copy the start/end.gcode files, and change the RPM timings to 5D moves.

Specifically, the Pre-Wipe commands in start become:

(**** begin pre-wipe commands ****)

G1 X50 Y-60 Z10 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

M6 T0           (wait for toolhead parts, nozzle, HBP, etc., to reach temperature)

G0 X45 Y-57     (Position Nozzle)

G0 Z0.6         (Position Height)

G92 E-3         (set extruder to -3mm)

G1 E0 F130.0    (Create Anchor, at ~4RPM)

(**** end pre-wipe commands ****)

And the retraction (filament reversal) part of end becomes:

(**** begin filament reversal ****)

G92 E3                (set E at 3mm)

G1 E0 F4800.0         (backup filament 3mm, fast)

(**** end filament reversal ****)

You no longer are dealing with RPM and timings. If you want it to move the filament 3mm, you tell the E axis to a position 3mm higher than where it is.

So, in the start code, we use G92 E-3 to set the E axis to −3 (without moving), and then we use G1 E0 F130.0 to move the extruder to 0, or forward 3mm, at a speed of 130mm/minute, or 2mm/second.

2) Change you profile settings so that the feedrate is always equal to the flow rate. Feedrate and flow rate multipliers should always be the same as well, unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. Enable Dimension. Measure your filament diameter carefully and enter that value in Dimension. For a Mk6 printing ABS set your packing density to .85, and for a Mk7 printing ABS set it to .96. For PLA it should almost always be 1.

In Print-O-Matic the Packing Density is  called “Final Volume (%)”, and it’s entered as a full percentage. So a Mk6/Mk6+ printing ABS would be 85 and a Mk7 printing ABS would be 96. For PLA it would be 100.

3) Modifying thingomatic.xml to use the makerbot4g (no “a” on the end) driver. Make sure you select this new Machine Type.

Once you are printing, if you have the filament measured correctly, then you can modify the packing density to get the right amount of plastic. If you get too much plastic, raise the packing density. A valid range is between 85% and 100%.

  -Rob

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MakerBot Operator

Member of CCCKC Hackerspace

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[Gian Pablo]

Thanks again! Very very useful info.

Some observations:

The control panel looks very different now. It seems like the extrusion controls on the right side no longer do anything - you have to use the A axis rotation controls on the left side, correct? 

It seems like you really want to reduce the maximum A axis rate, to something like 60, otherwise it is trying to push a lot of plastic...

Packing density using a modified Mk6+ is closer to 0.9 for me (using jag's bearing based filament drive)

Finally, I had to invert the A axis in the Motherboard Onboard Prefs. Something to keep in mind when switching between SF35 and SF44.

[Rob Giseburt]

The control panel looks very different now. It seems like the extrusion controls on the right side no longer do anything - you have to use the A axis rotation controls on the left side, correct? 

Correct.

It seems like you really want to reduce the maximum A axis rate, to something like 60, otherwise it is trying to push a lot of plastic…

maxfeedrate=“1600” means 26.666 MM/s. That seems like a reasonable limit.

Packing density using a modified Mk6+ is closer to 0.9 for me (using jag's bearing based filament drive)

It all based on how the teeth dig into the filament. The Mk7 should be fairly consistent, but the Mk6 would be dependent on how tight you crank down on it.

Finally, I had to invert the A axis in the Motherboard Onboard Prefs. Something to keep in mind when switching between SF35 and SF44.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the RPM driver runs backwards for some reason.

-Rob

PS: I’ve never printed with the RPM driver.

[Gian Pablo]

Great! I'm printing the best-looking calibration cubes I've ever seen...

Since jag's filament drive uses a bearing to press against the filament, I think you need less pressure, so the packing density is higher. Might even go to 0.95.

Can you say something about the reversal settings in Dimension? In particular, the settings around reversal within islands? I notice that there is no reversal when the extruder is crossing over within a solid area.

[ddurant]

> Great! I'm printing the best-looking calibration cubes I've ever seen...

 

Once you get it setup, it's silly-easy to make great prints.

 

I've been saying for well over a year now that people don't push these machines anywhere near their limits. Try cutting your layer height in half and dropping your thread width to your nozzle size and seeing what happens..

[Chris Chiang]

Where Can I find this driver name specification?

Thanks,
(printing horrific blobs with sf44 at the moment)
-Chris

[Aaron Double]

Using pla, I can get my layer height to .15mm easy.

Takes forever though.

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[Whosawhatsis]

That works well for PLA, but it will increase any warping/lifting/deamination problems with ABS.

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[Whosawhatsis]

*delamination.

[ddurant]

> Using pla, I can get my layer height to .15mm easy.

 

With your tweaked out bot, I'd bet you can get layers 1/2 that size without too much trouble.. ABS is the evil one - it always tortured me at layers under 0.15mm.

 

> Takes forever though.

 

The good thing about things that take forever is that 2 * forever is still 'forever'. Right?

[Aaron Double]

Groan!

I actually have not tweaked my cupcake in a while.

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[Chris Chiang]

Just Kidding. I finally found it.

For those of you using Rep0028,
it's located in replicatorg0028/machines/thingomatic.xml

I think it's printing something sensible now.
Thanks!

On Dec 13, 1:55 pm, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Whosawhatsis]

Actually, those are the distribution versions. On a Mac (or, presumably, Linux), you should edit the ones in ~/.replicatorg/machines/. On Windows, I think it's somewhere in the documents folder.

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[Gian Pablo]

Yeah, could really use some info on reversal. Getting lots of strings. Other than that the prints look really good.

[Rob Giseburt]

Gian,

Yeah, retraction is very much based on the extruder. Basically you want to reverse as fast as you can without stripping, just far enough to release the spring of the filament in the extruder barrel between the nozzle and the motor.

Here are my settings:

Extruder Retraction Speed (mm/s): 20.0

Filament Diameter (mm): 1.741

Filament Packing Density (ratio): 0.96

Retract Within Island False

Retraction Distance (millimeters): 2.5

The Retract Within Island setting is mainly a matter of time savings. The theory is that if you are in the infill, you don’t need retraction for non-extruding movements, since oozing would be ok. Retraction takes up some time, since the print has to be still while it’s happening. (Experiments with retraction-while-moving shows that it will deform/ooze, since the spring isn’t released while moving.)

Hopefully that helps, but don’t hesitate to ask more. (Anyone.)

  -Rob

—

MakerBot Operator

Member of CCCKC Hackerspace

Member of KC Fabricators Google Group

On Dec 13, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Gian Pablo wrote:

Yeah, could really use some info on reversal. Getting lots of strings. Other than that the prints look really good.

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[Gian Pablo]

Got it, very helpful. Retraction distance is set to 0.0 by default, which I think disables retraction. Will give it a try.

[David Wilson]

Well… a big thank you.

Combined with the information in this e-mail and others directly related to 5D and SF44… I'm printing again. 

First print is in progress and appears to be looking good. I shouldn't comment too early…. :-)

I did have to reverse the A Axis (and remember…  COMMIT the changes!!! … a bit frustrating when you don't).

I'm printing with PLA… white at the moment as it happens… 

I need to now print some known objects and test accuracy / precision.

Glan… I see you have offered to write up for Makerbot blog - a great idea!

I'm happy to help if I can… it seems as though all the info comes from this mailing list.

Also… I'd be very keen to see a tweaks article… Something about precision printing? Do you need more or less plastic and what settings do you change? - Just an idea.

- David

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Actually, that second way is better, but you know what I did. (I renamed the machines “Thingomatic 5D” as well.)

Quit and re-open ReplicatorG if you had it open. Make sure ReplicatorG is disconnected from the ‘bot, or you won’t be able to change the Machine Type (Driver).

Make sure you choose the correct Machine Types from the Machine menu again, or, if you used my file, then choose one of the "Thingomatic 5D” machines.

  -Rob

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<thingomatic5D.xml>

[David Wilson]

SF35 ??? was printing a square around the outside of my object to be printed… I found this great for getting the plastic flowing…

Under SF44 for me at the moment, it doesn't do this.

Which parameter is used to enable this functionality?

- David

On 14/12/2011, at 8:09 AM, Rob Giseburt wrote:

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Actually, that second way is better, but you know what I did. (I renamed the machines “Thingomatic 5D” as well.)

Quit and re-open ReplicatorG if you had it open. Make sure ReplicatorG is disconnected from the ‘bot, or you won’t be able to change the Machine Type (Driver).

Make sure you choose the correct Machine Types from the Machine menu again, or, if you used my file, then choose one of the "Thingomatic 5D” machines.

  -Rob

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On Dec 13, 2011, at 12:06 PM, The Ruttmeister wrote:

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<thingomatic5D.xml>

[Len Trigg]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:59 PM, David Wilson <dgwil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> SF35 ??? was printing a square around the outside of my object to be
> printed… I found this great for getting the plastic flowing…
> Under SF44 for me at the moment, it doesn't do this.
>
> Which parameter is used to enable this functionality?

That was the old "outline" plugin. Newer versions of SF include the
"skirt" plugin that can do this (and it also lets you continue to
build the skirt up higher to apparently provide some reduction of
heat-loss-induced corner warping).

Cheers,
Len.

[Robert Hunt]

All great information, I'm still a little unsure on what changes I
need to make for my geared stepper extruder.

I understand I need to modify the "stepspermm" setting on my "A" axis
when using the 5D driver, however I'm not sure how this is calculated,
it needs to take into consideration the following:

* 1/16th stepping (Pololu) rather than 1/8th (MakerBot)
* A 8:51 gear ratio (rather than 1:1 on the MakerBot)

How is this calculation made? I understand it uses the filament drive
gear diameter amongst other things.

Thanks

On Dec 13, 8:33 pm, Rob Giseburt <giseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, I don't mind if you use any of this for the Makerbot blog. :)
>
> There's a little more to it that that, though.
>
> 1) Copy the start/end.gcode files, and change the RPM timings to 5D moves.
>
> Specifically, the Pre-Wipe commands in start become:
>
> (**** begin pre-wipe commands ****)
> G1 X50 Y-60 Z10 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)
> M6 T0 (wait for toolhead parts, nozzle, HBP, etc., to reach temperature)
> G0 X45 Y-57 (Position Nozzle)
> G0 Z0.6 (Position Height)
> G92 E-3 (set extruder to -3mm)
> G1 E0 F130.0 (Create Anchor, at ~4RPM)
> (**** end pre-wipe commands ****)
>
> And the retraction (filament reversal) part of end becomes:
>
> (**** begin filament reversal ****)
> G92 E3 (set E at 3mm)
> G1 E0 F4800.0 (backup filament 3mm, fast)
> (**** end filament reversal ****)
>
> You no longer are dealing with RPM and timings. If you want it to move the filament 3mm, you tell the E axis to a position 3mm higher than where it is.
>

> So, in the start code, we use G92 E-3 to set the E axis to -3 (without moving), and then we use G1 E0 F130.0 to move the extruder to 0, or forward 3mm, at a speed of 130mm/minute, or 2mm/second.

>
> 2) Change you profile settings so that the feedrate is always equal to the flow rate. Feedrate and flow rate multipliers should always be the same as well, unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. Enable Dimension. Measure your filament diameter carefully and enter that value in Dimension. For a Mk6 printing ABS set your packing density to .85, and for a Mk7 printing ABS set it to .96. For PLA it should almost always be 1.
>
> In Print-O-Matic the Packing Density is called "Final Volume (%)", and it's entered as a full percentage. So a Mk6/Mk6+ printing ABS would be 85 and a Mk7 printing ABS would be 96. For PLA it would be 100.
>
> 3) Modifying thingomatic.xml to use the makerbot4g (no "a" on the end) driver. Make sure you select this new Machine Type.
>
> Once you are printing, if you have the filament measured correctly, then you can modify the packing density to get the right amount of plastic. If you get too much plastic, raise the packing density. A valid range is between 85% and 100%.
>
> -Rob

> --

> MakerBot Operator
> Member of CCCKC Hackerspace
> Member of KC Fabricators Google Group
>
> On Dec 13, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Gian Pablo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Do you mind if I write this up for the Makerbot blog?
>
> > As far as I can see, getting SF44 working properly on a Thing-O-Matic involves:
>
> > 1) Copying the start.gcode file (and possibly end.gcode) from a working SF35 profile (to get the homing code)
> > 2) Modifying thingomatic.xml to use the makerbot4g driver
> > 3) Measuring your filament
> > 4) Enabling Dimension and entering your filament diameter
> > 5) Update the packing density (0.85 for ABS)
>
> > In Print-O-Matic, do you enter a percentage eg. 85 or a fraction eg. 0.85 for the packing density?
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.

> > To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot/-/khfyXqUf14sJ.

[Joheinz]

The easiest way is to do it experimentally:

http://calculator.josefprusa.cz/#MotorStuffPrecise

Mark a given length of your filament, say 100mm with a pen, remember the current steps per mm, tell the extruder to extrude 100mm, measure how much was exactly extruded, enter the values and readjust your steps per mm, repeat to verify.

Markus

2011/12/14 Robert Hunt <robert...@gmail.com>

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[Rob Giseburt]

To expand on this a bit, the ReplicatorG stepspermm value is used with the MakerBot firmware. Each axis has one, including X, Y, and Z, A, and B. A and B and the extruder axes, which are also called E for toolhead 0 and E for toolhead 1, respectively.

On the RepRap firmware there is one toolhead simply called E. (I see that there is some hacking-in of multiple toolhead support, so this might soon be old info.) On the RepRap side, this same vale of stepspermm for the A or B axis is called e_steps_per_mm.

So, when using a non-MakerBot extruder with a machine that is running the makerbot firmware, search for the e_steps_per_mm value used with that extruder, and that's your A axis stepspermm.

On the flip side, running a makerbot extruder on a RepRap-firmware machine they can look at the stepspermm used for that extruder in the [ReplicatorG]/machines/ XML files to get the e_steps_per_mm value. 

  -Rob

[David Wilson]

Current status of SF44 printing with PLA…

Nearly there! :-)

Photograph below. The observation is that every time the machine steps up a layer… the extrusion is stopped… and it does not seem to start up fast enough again… as you can see from the photograph of the two objects… the rest of the print is fine.

Any tips on the SF parameters to look at tweaking…???

- David

[Rob Giseburt]

That would most likely be caused by retraction in the Dimension
plugin. Try setting the retraction distance to 1/2 what it is now.

-Rob

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> <IMG_1090.jpeg>

[Whosa whatsis]

Actually, it looks to me like it's not retracting enough, and the
nozzle is oozing during the move upward, then the pressure in the
nozzle is too low when it tries to start extruding again. I would try
increasing retraction. Also, try decreasing temperature to slow the
oozing by making the plastic in the nozzle a bit thicker and see if
your bot can handle a higher Z feed rate so that it doesn't have so
much time to ooze between layers.

[David Wilson]

Thank you for the feedback.

Changes to these settings did get a much better result.

I seem to get varying results depending on either… how long I've been printing and/or ambient temperature (that's just speculation on my part… it's starting to warm up here in NZ… so printing first thing in the morning vs. printing later in the day gets different results???). Also if I remove the plastic feed… cut it and start again… I tend to print well for a while… It could well be the properties of PLA???

Back to the SF44 discussion and getting started etc… My SF44 profile is available if anyone wants it? Or if it can be included in the replicatorG build for others to use… Happy to contribute...

- David