The Future of Makerbot?

[makeme]

http://printthat.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/is-makerbot-going-to-make-it/

What do you guys think Makerbot's next flagship product should be? A
plastic recycler? A CNC machine? A sandbox casting machine?

[Linkreincarnate]

SLS printer

[Linkreincarnate]

Or maybe a granule extruder to start and then working a recycler into
the actual makerbot.

[Anderson Ta]

How about a laser cutter?

MakerBot should really create products that tend to the "Maker"
community. Really embody the idea of makerbot's, that being "Robot's
that make things!" Allowing the average DIY enthusiast/hobbyists
access to tools otherwise way beyond their means. That's what makes
the MakerBot CupCake/ToM so appealing. Your getting tech that usually
costs $10's of thousands more for only a fraction of the cost.

Creating [affordable] tools that enable anyone to make almost anything
(def stole that from MIT FabLab).

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Anderson Ta

[Z LeHericy]

Cnc lathe anyone?

[Z LeHericy]

Aditive lathe that visit :-)

On Jan 9, 2011 12:41 PM, "Anderson Ta" <ata...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Stan Seibert]

Actually, I think the Lasersaur folks are already working on that:

http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/

They got 20k on Kickstarter to produce an open source design and start
selling kits. Hopefully we'll see something later this year.

[Owen M Collins]

A stepper controlled laser 3d scanner that uses the Gen3 electronics.

Thing > Scan> STL>Print> Another Thing

O.

[Xtremd]

I second the laser cutter, maybe they can come to some sort of
business agreement with lasersaur to help them fund/develop it in
return for a cut of the profits? A affordable lasercutter would really
fill the gap in personal fabrication that the Makerbot cant fill due
to physical size restraints.

[Z LeHericy]

I would really love to see MBI release a stepper based extruder, with it's own extruder controller, that can me put in a Cupcake CNC as a drop-in replacement...

that, or a Dual(or more :-) )-Head Mk5, preferably stepper driven...

-Z

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM, coasterman-1674 <coast...@live.com> wrote:

A lasercutter is a great idea, and I would definitely buy it when i
hear a few success stories. It would likely cause exponential growth
for MBI. I think they should make one that can cut entire parts for a
Cupcake or Thing-O-Matic.

For extruders, I don't see much farther than the MK5, other than a
dual heater dual thermistor PLA extruder that controls both the temp
at the top of the barrel and at the nozzle.

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[Dave M.]

I don't want to go off-topic here, but I can't get over the lack of
information on the Lasersaur. I really want to contribute to it, but
they don't provide any numbers in their specifications. They are
still taking funds via PayPal, but I can't help but wonder if those
that put in $128 on Kickstarter will be offended by the fact that late-
backers get the same thing for $69 now. In either case, I think it's
a great project and I hope it succeeds. :)

[RyanP]

I'm not super excited about the prospect of DIY laser cutters. These
are really industrial machines which need certain safety machanisms
that average joe might be tempted to leave off in order to finish ...
(Oh great now I'm blind AND my house burnt down! I'm sueing the pants
off everyone and taking their pants!) Plus the laser is the heart of
such a machine. It's expensive and you will need to replace it after
xxx hours.

However if makerbot comes out with lowest priced fully assembled laser
cutter on the planet, I'm all for that.

On Jan 9, 9:37 pm, Xtremd <blackfish...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Michael Casselli]

How about making something that works a little more successfully out of the box so to speak? I am an unhappy consumer with regards to the Makerbot and have shelved it for the time being. I understand a little bit of tinkering but I don't understand after one successful print the power supply failing, then a drive board blowing out  immediately following that, then an extruder repeatedly failing, a general inability to function in any constructive fashion  and all of the emails from all of these people discussing all of the problems. To top it off a series of new release parts, which cost more then the additional 1000.00, and then a totallly new release, making support for the old model a thing of the past really. Stop thinking about what next and fix what's already out there.

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[Luis E. Rodriguez]

I know stepper-based extruders are being worked on and frankly is possible now via Makergear solutions. As for the future, its wide open. I know people think Makerbot Industries has the capacity to produce anything at the drop of a dime but as fast as they are growing they JUST launched a new PRODUCT. Even though its open source, people complain about this or that that isn't right with it. They ARE a company that needs profit to continue. Being just that means they are constantly supporting and developing and marketing their products. It also means they have to wait for PCB's in the mail and are slaves to the inventory of whomever they are ordering from, unfortunately China. The difference from commercial ventures is they have us to help with that work. Frankly we all exist because a patent on FDM technologie expired IIRC. This made it legal to even start a venture like this. So what's the big deal with commercial machines? Repeatable accuracy, support material, ZERO warpage, on and on etc... I believe Makerbot Industries exist to bring that kind of technology to the masses. They HAVE! If bringing to the masses features from $20k machines than we CAN expect stepper extruders, multiple toolheads (laser, subtractive cnc etc...), soluble support material, heated chambers. Makerbot electroncis are already a platform technology but when you look at a machine like the ultimaker which has been mechanically clocked to 300mm/s to hear him talk, he is reaching a software/packet loss bottleneck. When I think about what is takes to Fab something I think 3D printer, CNC for pcb's and hardware and a laser would be awesome, dangerous at the thought of blindness, but that seems to be the holy trinity of Fab. Imagine a 3 head tool that switches between each tool or at least a combo printer/cnc head. Maybe they end up making a case out of another material than wood? Looking at the Thingomatic on my desk, it seems like it doesn't even NEED the whole top front piece at all. What if all the sides were glass/acrylic and the front top flipped up with a handle? Would that help with warpage? Most of my warpage is from fiddling with a level build platform.I'm ramblilng but I think if we keep postulating what Makerbot MIGHT/SHOULD do we have wasted time when we could have just tried it. Join a hackerspace or create one and build something that doesn't look right but works. 

Try and Fail! Then Share and Succeed!

[Sorry for the ramble]

Luis E. Rodriguez

[Joheinz]

Thank you Luis! I think it was about time to put things back into a perspective and stress what makes the whole open hardware movement strong. Markus

Am 11.01.2011 17:28 schrieb "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodrig...@gmail.com>:

I know stepper-based extruders are being worked on and frankly is possible now via Makergear solutions. As for the future, its wide open. I know people think Makerbot Industries has the capacity to produce anything at the drop of a dime but as fast as they are growing they JUST launched a new PRODUCT. Even though its open source, people complain about this or that that isn't right with it. They ARE a company that needs profit to continue. Being just that means they are constantly supporting and developing and marketing their products. It also means they have to wait for PCB's in the mail and are slaves to the inventory of whomever they are ordering from, unfortunately China. The difference from commercial ventures is they have us to help with that work. Frankly we all exist because a patent on FDM technologie expired IIRC. This made it legal to even start a venture like this. So what's the big deal with commercial machines? Repeatable accuracy, support material, ZERO warpage, on and on etc... I believe Makerbot Industries exist to bring that kind of technology to the masses. They HAVE! If bringing to the masses features from $20k machines than we CAN expect stepper extruders, multiple toolheads (laser, subtractive cnc etc...), soluble support material, heated chambers. Makerbot electroncis are already a platform technology but when you look at a machine like the ultimaker which has been mechanically clocked to 300mm/s to hear him talk, he is reaching a software/packet loss bottleneck. When I think about what is takes to Fab something I think 3D printer, CNC for pcb's and hardware and a laser would be awesome, dangerous at the thought of blindness, but that seems to be the holy trinity of Fab. Imagine a 3 head tool that switches between each tool or at least a combo printer/cnc head. Maybe they end up making a case out of another material than wood? Looking at the Thingomatic on my desk, it seems like it doesn't even NEED the whole top front piece at all. What if all the sides were glass/acrylic and the front top flipped up with a handle? Would that help with warpage? Most of my warpage is from fiddling with a level build platform.I'm ramblilng but I think if we keep postulating what Makerbot MIGHT/SHOULD do we have wasted time when we could have just tried it. Join a hackerspace or create one and build something that doesn't look right but works. 

Try and Fail! Then Share and Succeed!

[Sorry for the ramble]

Luis E. Rodriguez

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 8:33 AM, RyanP <rplu...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I'm not super excited about the prospect of DIY laser cutters.  These

> are really industrial ma...

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[tmo]

i gave money to lasersaur and regret it.

there are no updates, no word on what they are doing, what the
timeline is etc.. for all i know they had a huge 20k$ party

you can find working open source laser cutters on buildlog.net, they
are not breaking ground here like they imply. its been done before,
documented on the web and parts kits are available.

[ddurant]

> support material

This gets a lot less interesting once you add a stepper extruder to
the mix. Add 5D (I think.. haven't tried it) and it gets even less
intersting. There's a good reason you don't see the UP! crowd
clamoring for support material. Hopefully, MBI isn't investing lots of
effort into this area - it would be a waste.


On Jan 11, 11:28 am, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

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> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

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>
> - Show quoted text -

[Linkreincarnate]

> There's a good reason you don't see the UP! crowd
> clamoring for support material.

Like the fact that they have it already? I woudn't mind automatic
support material for my makerbot. So long as it was easily
detachable...

[Z LeHericy]

Personally, I'd love a dual(or more :-) )-head (as I've said before) for two reasons, 

1. Multi-color printing

2. ability to print soluble support material

-Z

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[ddurant]

> Like the fact that they have it already?

Right. And they have a single head extruder. There's no separate
support material on UP!s - they use ABS extruded at a lower density.

[Linkreincarnate]

I had wondered about that...

On Jan 11, 10:19 pm, coasterman-1674 <coaster...@live.com> wrote:
> Turning down the flowrate turns the support into a thin web that is
> easily removed. That is how UP!s can get easy remove support material.

> > > detachable...- Hide quoted text -

[ddurant]

> I had wondered about that...

Oh.. Sorry.. Didn't realize you were asking.. :)

That's one of the big advantages of a stepper extruder - you can tell
it to print the support structures at a small fraction of the flow
rate that the object itself is printed at. The object comes out as-
always but the support structure comes off easy.



On Jan 11, 11:45 pm, Linkreincarnate <linkreincarn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

I've yet to setup my stepper extruder because to be quite honest I've never REALLY gotten a profile I was happy with a standard plastruder, MK5 that is. Proportional to the amount of time I spend doing it of course. I'm dying to get to a point where I can print the lowrider out.

Luis E. Rodriguez

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[Ross Mosshart]

I tweak my profile all the time, but since very few people exclusivly print in PLA, its kind of a given. Mk4, MG hot end, ABP.

What I would like to see is a polished 3D laser scanner, and none of this 'Supply your own iProduct and Pico Projector' crap either, I mean something that has everything you need and is enclosed, and exports directly to an stl. Put part in one box, copy comes out of other box. Thats what Im looking for. And its probably wholly unrealistic, seeing as how they are trying to cultivate a new product line.

On Jan 12, 2011 10:11 AM, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodrig...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've yet to setup my stepper extruder because to be quite honest I've never REALLY gotten a profile I was happy with a standard plastruder, MK5 that is. Proportional to the amount of time I spend doing it of course. I'm dying to get to a point where I can print the lowrider out.

Luis E. Rodriguez

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 5:57 PM, ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > support material > > ...

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[ddurant]

> ...to be quite honest I've never

> REALLY gotten a profile I was happy with a standard plastruder

Start a new thread - I'd be happy to help.

On Jan 12, 11:10 am, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

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> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at

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[Z LeHericy]

you mean you were'nt happy with the 1/10 of a mm per layer print??????????

:-)

-Z

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[makeme]

On Jan 12, 9:10 am, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've yet to setup my stepper extruder because to be quite honest I've never
> REALLY gotten a profile I was happy with a standard plastruder, MK5 that is.

I got it to where I was pretty happy with it ... then the extruder
controller promptly died :(

I think the first thing I'm going to do once I get it working again
(new EC board) is print out a stepper adapter plate and some gears,
get a stepper motor, another stepper driver board, and replace the DC
motor FOR EVAR!!!

[Zip Zap]

I've read that not even industrial lasers are not just push button cutters.  There are different settings adjustment that depend on what material your laser cutting.  Also, the level of laser power may vary during cutting.  There may be more power during start up vs hours after startup.  The high end million dollar laser cutters may take all these variables into account and automate to the point of seamless use.  I doubt a cheap home built one can ever come close. 

---

From: RyanP <rplu...@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 6:33:10 AM
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: The Future of Makerbot?

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[tmo]

or ever need to

On Jan 27, 8:23 pm, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've read that not even industrial lasers are not just push button cutters.  
> There are different settings adjustment that depend on what material your laser
> cutting.  Also, the level of laser power may vary during cutting.  There may be
> more power during start up vs hours after startup.  The high end million dollar
> laser cutters may take all these variables into account and automate to the
> point of seamless use.  I doubt a cheap home built one can ever come close.  
>
> ________________________________

> From: RyanP <rplum...@gmail.com>

> To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 6:33:10 AM
> Subject: [MakerBot] Re: The Future of Makerbot?
>
> I'm not super excited about the prospect of DIY laser cutters.  These
> are really industrial machines which need certain safety machanisms
> that average joe might be tempted to leave off in order to finish ...
> (Oh great now I'm blind AND my house burnt down!  I'm sueing the pants
> off everyone and taking their pants!) Plus the laser is the heart of
> such a machine.  It's expensive and you will need to replace it after
> xxx hours.
>
> However if makerbot comes out with lowest priced fully assembled laser
> cutter on the planet, I'm all for that.
>
> On Jan 9, 9:37 pm, Xtremd <blackfish...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I second the laser cutter, maybe they can come to some sort of
> > business agreement with lasersaur to help them fund/develop it in
> > return for a cut of the profits? A affordable lasercutter would really
> > fill the gap in personal fabrication that the Makerbot cant fill due
> > to physical size restraints.
>
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