Re: [MakerBot] Other printers

[Mark Cohen]

The Type A is a very nice machine. I do not think you could go wrong with that.

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Danny <dan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on the updated 3D printer from Type A.
>
> I'd like to get a printer for ABS -- I can't afford the Replicator 2x and
> I'm not too impressed with the original Replicator. The $1400, fully
> assembled Series 1 printer seems like a good deal, although I'm only running
> on a few things I've read. I would be all over the Lulzbot if it had a
> bigger printing volume.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
> D
>
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[Mark Cohen]

You would also be very happy with an Ultimaker.

[Jetguy]

Or you could build or buy my version of the Type A http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:35372
Advantages over the stock type A

Sailfish firmware supported (This alone should make you want to
switch)
3mm filament capable- stock type A is only 1.75mm
Heated bed and thus ABS or other plastic capable (type A is PLA only
with no heated bed)

You can buy a used T-O-M and build one for less money than a Type A.
I sell frame kits for $150 which includes shipping in the lower 48
You can pick up a T-O-M for ~$700-800 on Fleebay
BOM is less than $200 if you have a T-O-M handy, Less if you have a
Cupcake with a MK6 upgrade.

I can build a custom one with options if that's what you are looking
for. Email me off thread (in accordance with group rules).

[funmakerBart]

I wonder why you are not impressed by the replicator 1? Comparing it to the Rep2x few progress is made IMO. About the same vibrating platform design  / same thin rods - timing belts and belonging maintenance / same resolution specs / probably the same steppermotors / extruder design probably by Emett / dual extrusion but no good software to use it / no print cooling / no wipe or oozing prevention for real dual printing. I assume it has a better HPB and circuit board. Also the enclosure already on it is handy (for ABS). No touch screen or WIFI though ;-)

I'm impressed now even more by the Replicator 1: $800 less! And by spending $100 enclosed, another $120 even with aluminum arms! 

I expect it's like Windows, the uneven releases are the best. So I wait until 3.0......

Their support is unbeatable though!

Bart

[Mark Cohen]

The replicator 1 is simply shit
Period. It is a very big disappointment.

--

[funmakerBart]

Ah, now you are talking! Squawk!

[Mark Cohen]

Any machine that is hyped as:

The MakerBot Replicator (Single Extruder) is the ultimate personal 3D
printer, with single extrusion and a bigger printing footprint, giving
you the superpower to print things BIG. Assembled in Brooklyn by
skilled technicians, the MakerBot Replicator™ is ready within minutes
to start printing right out of the box. With the MakerBot Replicator™,
you can invent the future and also be a hero around the house. Make
shower curtain rings, bath plugs, door knobs, or create custom gifts
for special occasions. Design it, MakerBot it and give it away. With a
MakerBot Replicator™, you’ve got an inexhaustible supply of awesome.

And then requires community support to actually make it work right,
and then the motherboards blow out, is simply garbage. Anyone who has
been using 3D printers such as myself for 3+ years knows that this is
the truth.

[funmakerBart]

Ok! I now see the specs of the Rep2X! I'm sorry you're absolutely right!

Thanks for the in depth review!

SUPER FLAT HEATED BUILD PLATE OPTIMIZED FOR ABS

• Get prints that stick: high-tolerance aluminum build plate is machined for crucial flatness to prevent warping or sagging that can affect print quality.
• Build plate is anodized for longevity and durability.
• Surface tape comes cut-to-size for smooth, hassle-free application.
• Better temperature control keeps build plate heated precisely and evenly throughout.
• Now in sleek MakerBot black.

COMPLETELY RE-ENGINEERED EASY-LOAD EXTRUDER

• New easy-load filament lever makes loading filament as easy as flipping a light switch.
• Re-designed filament feeding system dramatically reduces stripping, skipping, and jamming.
• Constant force filament feeding system has no parts to wear out or need adjustment.
• New thermal core design stablizes internal temperature for more reliable prints.
• Less maintenance and more uptime.

DARE TO "DUAL": DUAL EXTRUSION 3D PRINTING

• Be ready for cutting-edge developments in filament and multi-material printing.
• Add a new level of creativity to your 3D design with interlaced colors.
• Precisely aligned dual nozzles give perfect prints in one or two colors.
• Updates in MakerWare make it easier to generate dual extrusion prints.
• Firmware improvements reduce filament reversal, retraction, and over-run, meaning more definition between colors.

SIX-SIDED ENCLOSURE FOR STABILIZED ABS COOLING

• Enclosed sides block drafts and stabilize the ABS cooling period for less cracking and peeling.
• Magnetic lid snaps on and off for easy access.
• Clear-view top and sides let you monitor your progress.
• Friction hinge door stays where you put it for easy print retrieval.
• Magnetic latches keep small hands safe from hot components, at home and at school.

[Andy]

I recently visited the guys at Type A machines.  Very nice printer.  A few points about the machine:

- extruder is an all metal component (not sure if aluminum or steel)

- uses a spring loaded mechanism, similar to whosawhatsits design for extruder filament tension

- build platform is extremely sturdy. I tried pushing it up/down while a print was in progress.  There was very little deflection, unlike my Rep1's build platform.

- uses RAMPS controller card

- no HBP, didn't see any ABS prints

- example prints looked pretty good, although it was all PLA and I print with ABS, so I am not a good judge.

- uses *two* motors for y axis 

I am waiting for a revised model with an HBP and dual extrusion.  They had some dual extrusion models, but I think they were a limited run/experimental design and are working on a revised version.

-Andy

[Mark Cohen]

It was a 4 letter review.

[Danny]

Thanks Andrew (and everyone) for the help!

I hadn't realized that the Type A stocked by Maker Shed is actually a dual extruder unit.  They mention that ABS will be possible with an upgrade kit, but I can't find that (I emailed them about this last week, but haven't heard back.)

My heart and wallet are starting to move towards this...

[DronE Pump]

Fully agree with you, the 2X is not just too expensive....it is overpriced.  I did buy an original Replicator and it did turn out to be a disappointment.  Which is why I did this with it in an effort to redeem my original decision.  I am now very happy with the output of the machine, but there is no doubt that other players out there are going to trounce the home end of the market in the near future. 

I am also looking at these guys with more than passing interest.  I backed their extruder project and the extruder I received proved to work really well so I think they are worth keeping an eye on.

Cheers

[Danny]

Does anyone have feedback on the Leapfrog Creatr?  It looks super-solid and appears to be a well-run company.  My only concern would be their new-ness to 3D printing.  They do seem to have considerable fabrication chops, though.

And, DronE, nice work on that formerly-a-Replicator of yours.  That both gives me hope about getting a MakerBot, but also makes me skeptical since I continually hear about the fairly radical tweaks people are seemingly required to do on them (even on the Rep 2's extruders.)

[Dan Newman]

On 29 Jan 2013 , at 9:05 PM, Danny wrote:

> Does anyone have feedback on the Leapfrog Creatr <http://www.lpfrg.com/>?

> It looks super-solid and appears to be a well-run company. My only concern
> would be their new-ness to 3D printing. They do seem to have considerable
> fabrication chops, though.

Did you see this thread from last week,

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/makerbot/bXN2uZ3tS_Q/discussion

And there's been prior threads as well.

Dan

[Jetguy]

Caution, yes, the type is upgradeable to a heated bed. My design was
based on that fact. However, the inlcuded power supply in the stock
type A is not up to the task (IMO). They are using a smaller power
supply, both physically and power wise. I had to modify the design to
put in a 30A 12 volt 360 watt supply. If you go with a QU-DB bed
heater, the 8x8 is 2Ohms or less and the 12x12 is 1 Ohm. At 12V, that
is 6-7 Amps or 12Amps alone at a cold startup. Let's say they use a 15
or 20 Amp rated supply (everything I know says this is true about the
design details they have released). I personally have had 2 of the
common 20A power supplies pop on me while powering a standard Reprap
heated bed PCB and a MK6 head. It was well rated, properly cooled and
everything. I've learned the hard way that over capacity and these
360watt supplies are a must.

Now to be fair, they have not published the specs on the hardware they
are putting in these machines at Makershed. I am only relaying my
experience and information I honestly believe so that you can make a
fair decision. The fact it's already a dual head, has 6 motors instead
of 5, extruder heaters and a physically smaller power supply worries
me that the required ~100W bed heater is going to push the power power
supply over the edge.

It is a great design and Andrew builds a great machine with great
support, I'm just cautioning that there is a reason thebot didn't come
with a heated bed and it may not be a straighforward upgrade as you
implied.

On Jan 29, 11:25 pm, Danny <danh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Andrew (and everyone) for the help!
>

> I hadn't realized that the Type A stocked by Maker Shed<http://www.makershed.com/Type_A_Machines_Series_1_3D_Printer_Dual_Ext...>is actually a dual extruder unit.  They mention that ABS will be possible

> with an upgrade kit, but I can't find that (I emailed them about this last
> week, but haven't heard back.)
>
> My heart and wallet are starting to move towards this...
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 28, 2013 4:38:39 PM UTC-6, Andrew wrote:
>
> > I recently visited the guys at Type A machines.  Very nice printer.  A few
> > points about the machine:
>
> > - extruder is an all metal component (not sure if aluminum or steel)
>
> > - uses a spring loaded mechanism, similar to whosawhatsits design for
> > extruder filament tension
>
> > - build platform is extremely sturdy. I tried pushing it up/down while a
> > print was in progress.  There was very little deflection, unlike my Rep1's
> > build platform.
>
> > - uses RAMPS controller card
>
> > - no HBP, didn't see any ABS prints
>
> > - example prints looked pretty good, although it was all PLA and I print
> > with ABS, so I am not a good judge.
>
> > - uses *two* motors for y axis
>
> > I am waiting for a revised model with an HBP and dual extrusion.  They had
> > some dual extrusion models, but I think they were a limited
> > run/experimental design and are working on a revised version.
>
> > -Andy
>

> > On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:17 PM, Danny <dan...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on the updated 3D printer from Type A.
>
> > I'd like to get a printer for ABS -- I can't afford the Replicator 2x and
> > I'm not too impressed with the original Replicator.  The $1400, fully
> > assembled Series 1 printer seems like a good deal, although I'm only
> > running on a few things I've read.  I would be all over the Lulzbot if it
> > had a bigger printing volume.
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> > Thanks!
> > D
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "MakerBot Operators" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[funmakerBart]

Danny,

There are some users of the Creatr on the Kisslicer forum: http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=117.msg2681#msg2681

The Creatr looks ok and is not expensive. The company that owns it has a lot of experience with complex machines: http://www.flexologic.nl/products/flexible/mom-dd-series/

I was thinking buying one (after the replicator, and they are Dutch, as I am...) but after some reading on the forum I saw they claim to have sold more than 1000 printers. The forum activity doesn't fit with that claim IMO. Or it is the best machine ever. Or Makerbotters like to spent more time on the forum.

There are some complains about the service of Leapfrog on the forum, but it can be that they work like Makerbot with direct support, so you don't see problems on the forum.

Maybe you can get in touch with the Creatr users on the Kisslicer forum. The prints I saw are looking ok.

Bart

[Darrell jan]

I'm bumping this topic up because I saw that John A was willing to say more about the Cube. And, since he was part of the printer shoot out, maybe he'll comment on some other printers.

I gave a hard look at the Cube, and appreciate that they're very upfront about not being open source or hackable. In fact, the real reason I got the Replicator was that it had, at the time I was buying, the shortest delivery time (for me, about 4 days). But like the title says, this is a topic to discuss other printers.

John?

[Danny]

I can withstand some closed-sourceness, but I will never buy a printer that locks me into proprietary filament cartridges.  This is the inkjet-printer scheme and I have used Stratasys for long enough to know this pain.

Has anyone hacked Cubes to take bulk filament?  I think I heard that their filament cartridges are chipped, but I have no idea how substantial their protection is

[Ken Hoven]

I looked at the Cube 2 weeks ago and I emailed them about the carts. I asked them how much filament was in those expensive carts... the reply was they do not disclose the weight. That was enough for me to decide against them. I think they were $105 each and they said that was enough to make 12 small parts and that scared me.

Ken

[Darrell jan]

The Make review says there is about a pound of ABS for $50. So, more than twice as much as the going rate. On their website, you can buy 7 for $308, or $44 each. 

Darrell

[Cymon]

I found another post where someone weighed the full and "empty" cartridges, "empty" when the chip decides you're done, and the result was about 320 grams! In was in the comments of this post: http://cubifyfans.blogspot.com/2012/07/some-donts-with-cube.html

Every cubify fan that says they're happy with the number of prints they're getting out of each cartridge clearly have no idea.