[discuss] OO.o - Ubuntu Remix - well, maybe Google Docs is out also - Abiword and Gnumeric?
Drew Jensen
is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of the day
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-that.html
Drew
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NoOp
> just passing this along - I'd say from everything I'm reading that this
> is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of the day
>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-that.html
>
> Drew
Don't rely on scuttle-but, instead just follow along and/or comment at:
<https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications>
Mark C. Miller
> On 02/08/2010 04:09 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:
>> just passing this along - I'd say from everything I'm reading that this
>> is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of
>> the day
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-
that.html
>>
>> Drew
>
> Don't rely on scuttle-but, instead just follow along and/or comment at:
> <https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-
applications>
no scuttle-butt; nothing to follow. It's a done deal. Ubuntu UNR will
drop OOo with version 10.04. It's been posted for awhile; I posed the
article as it appeared on /. late last week here and
comp.openoffice.questions. Don't have the actual article in front of
me. Power users will just get OOo from Synaptic. I worry about first-
time Ubuntu users (which is one of the target audiences for Netbooks it
seems); will they even know OOo exists? I fear out userbase will take a
hit based on this decision. How big will be interesting to try and
gauge. Check out the article at <http://digitizor.com/2010/02/05/
openoffice-dropped-from-ubuntu-netbook-edition-10-04/>
Alexandro Colorado
is an internet appliance, but further from this. Basically Ubuntu is
replacing free and open source software for non-free web applications.
Telling people to just use Google Docs, is basically replacing
applications from free to closed that might not work at all. Have you
ever tried to open a complex document on google docs, with headers,
index and cross reference. Or even images... it end up becoming a big
mess.
Ipad push the idea of using a netbook as an internet appliance but in
reality, a netbook is more like a second computer for on-the road. You
still need the full functionality of a desktop system.
Personally I use OOo for presentations, I will definetly not use
Google Docs for that, presentations in cloud systems are a real mess.
I would probably recomend users to skip Ubuntu from now on, I never
really liked this distro to start with.
--
Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
IM: j...@jabber.org
Lars Nooden
> just passing this along - I'd say from everything I'm reading that this
> is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of the
> day
>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-that.html
Here is what it is about It is about going backwards:
"application compatible with most common Microsoft formats ..."
AbiWord does not support OpenDocument Format:
http://www.abisource.com/wiki/OpenDocument_support
Gnumeric has partial support, but probably not enough to be useful or
interoperable with other applications:
http://projects.gnome.org/gnumeric/announcements/1.8/gnumeric-1.8.shtml
The nearly non-existent support for the OpenDocument Format in both
AbiWord and Gnumeric has been intentional. Some of that is due to waste
of resources on the still undefined, dead end MOOX. Prior to that MOOX
trip, both were rather good applications.
In other packages for the UNR, there are similar agendas manifesting.
The use of Tomboy in place of Knotes, Gettingthingsgnome, Basket, Gnote
or Zim is more of the same.
Some of the agendas appear to be about a race to the bottom or at least
cutting off at the knees a good distro. Other agendas appear to be
nothing more than pushing out non-Microsoft formats and ways whenever
and wherever possible.
So, in hindsight how did Mark lose control of Ubuntu, can it be fixed,
could better judgment from Jono in choosing volunteers have helped?
Regards,
/Lars
Lars Nooden
> Don't rely on scuttle-but, instead just follow along and/or comment at:
> <https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications>
That is the feedback and discussion for UNR. Where is the actual list
of applications? Or is that it?
Regards
Lars Nooden
> What I feel like is that there is the mistake to think that a netbook
> is an internet appliance, but further from this.
I strongly agree. In part it is isolated from the net because wireless
and 3G are less than ubiquitous even in many towns, hotels, etc.
Connectivity certainly cannot be relied upon when traveling. Even
regular land-lines are not able to deliver the advertised rates.
However, there is convergence in the phones and netbooks.
Essential background information for any netbook debate would be to know
the availability of wireless / 3G connections and the percentage of the
population it is available to. By available, I mean actually there and
able to use it, not a theoretical or vendor-specific or
subscriber-specific lockin. Also relevant are bandwidth caps.
> Basically Ubuntu is replacing free and open source software for
> non-free applications.
There. Fixed that for you. ;) However, open or closed, Google Docs is
not up for any real work with ODF documents.
> ... in reality, a netbook is more like a second computer for on-the
> road. You still need the full functionality of a desktop system.
Or a notebook. I'd bring up Ian's comment about phones. I also see
convergence. The specs from my 2008 phone are in some ways better than
my 2007 netbook. Where they differ is battery life, screen size and one
has a keyboard plus ethernet and sd sockets. Now how much of that
becomes useful in the future depends on the competency and intentions of
the manufacturers...
NoOp
> NoOp wrote:
>
>> Don't rely on scuttle-but, instead just follow along and/or comment at:
>> <https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications>
>
> That is the feedback and discussion for UNR. Where is the actual list
> of applications? Or is that it?
No... it's a "whiteboard" for discussion:
<quote>
It is felt that Ubuntu Netbook Edition provides too many applications by
default, so this specification is about discussing the use cases we want
to support, and which applications are needed to provide that.
</quote>
the result of which will most likely affect the April 2010 release of
Lucid UNE. The current apps available (as I understand it - I do not
have a netbook) are drawn from the standard repositories at build time:
/dists/karmic/restricted/binary-i386/Release
/dists/karmic/main/binary-i386/Release
but "optimized" for the small screen:
http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr
NoOp
> Drew Jensen wrote:
>> just passing this along - I'd say from everything I'm reading that this
>> is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of the
>> day
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-that.html
>
> Here is what it is about It is about going backwards:
>
> "application compatible with most common Microsoft formats ..."
>
> AbiWord does not support OpenDocument Format:
>
> http://www.abisource.com/wiki/OpenDocument_support
Will AbiWord support the Open Document?
Yes. There's currently decent import support for OpenDocument. We also
recommend Rich Text format as the best way to share documents with other
Word Processing software.
But the last line sentence is... just plain... argh.
http://www.abisource.com/release-notes/2.8.0.phtml
[Improved OpenDocument Format (.odt) support]
Mind you, while I have AbiWord installed, I'm not advocating OOo be
replaced with it; just questioning your statement that AbiWord doesn't
support OpenDocument format. How well? I don't really know as I've only
tried AbiWord a few times to test.
Lars Nooden
> No... it's a "whiteboard" for discussion: ... the result of which
> will most likely affect the April 2010 release of Lucid UNE.
Thanks. It was unclear the scope of the discussion and what affect it
would have.
> ... but "optimized" for the small screen:
> http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr
UNR is, in principle, a good idea. The devil is in the details.
4 GB is on the edge of morbidly obese for a netbook distro.
I haven't looked at Gnumeric in 5 years, it's gotten a stigma lately
and does not support ODF. It used to compare favorably to StarOffice,
before OOo. ODF support is must-have and it may be that OOo is the only
current option. Though there's been a lot of improvement to Koffice.
/Lars
Lars Nooden
> Yes. There's currently decent import support for OpenDocument. We also
> recommend Rich Text format as the best way to share documents with other
> Word Processing software.
>
> But the last line sentence is... just plain... argh.
>
> http://www.abisource.com/release-notes/2.8.0.phtml
To paraphrase the above, 'work on supporting the format has begun, but
no ETA for a workable implementation.'
Not really 'export' support. Nor good 'import' It's a start, but if a
nebulous cluster of undocumented formats known as RTF are recommended,
then there are serious issues with the support.
By support, I mean that you can happily and easily use the application
to create and edit ODF files. Ideally it should do it so well that
swapping odf files with OOo and Koffice can be done with the same level
of concern that one gives audio or graphics.
Alexandro Colorado
> NoOp wrote:
>
>> No... it's a "whiteboard" for discussion: ... the result of which
>> will most likely affect the April 2010 release of Lucid UNE.
>
> Thanks. It was unclear the scope of the discussion and what affect it
> would have.
>
>> ... but "optimized" for the small screen:
>> http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr
>
> UNR is, in principle, a good idea. The devil is in the details.
> 4 GB is on the edge of morbidly obese for a netbook distro.
>
> I haven't looked at Gnumeric in 5 years, it's gotten a stigma lately
> and does not support ODF. It used to compare favorably to StarOffice,
> before OOo. ODF support is must-have and it may be that OOo is the only
> current option. Though there's been a lot of improvement to Koffice.
I dissagree, KOffice is a much better alternative than Gnumerics -
Abiword by far. Most of the ODF roundups KOffice came out really
strong on adjusting to the standard. Much more advanced than Symphony,
RedOffice and other apps.
> /Lars
>
>
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>
--
Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
IM: j...@jabber.org
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Lars Nooden
>> I haven't looked at Gnumeric in 5 years, it's gotten a stigma lately
>> and does not support ODF. It used to compare favorably to StarOffice,
>> before OOo. ODF support is must-have and it may be that OOo is the only
>> current option. Though there's been a lot of improvement to Koffice.
>
> I dissagree, KOffice is a much better alternative than Gnumerics -
That's what I was getting at: KOffice has improved a lot. What was
missing was a statement that it was already rather good.
It's OOo's main complementary suite.
NoOp
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>> I haven't looked at Gnumeric in 5 years, it's gotten a stigma lately
>>> and does not support ODF. It used to compare favorably to StarOffice,
>>> before OOo. ODF support is must-have and it may be that OOo is the only
>>> current option. Though there's been a lot of improvement to Koffice.
>>
>> I dissagree, KOffice is a much better alternative than Gnumerics -
>
> That's what I was getting at: KOffice has improved a lot. What was
> missing was a statement that it was already rather good.
> It's OOo's main complementary suite.
Rolls eyes...
$ sudo apt-get purge koffice
works for me.
NoOp
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:02:04 -0800, NoOp wrote:
>
>>> just passing this along - I'd say from everything I'm reading that this
>>> is all still way high up in the air...but here is the scuttle-but of
>>> the day
>>>
>>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/few-days-ago-we-shared-word-
> that.html
>>>
>>
>> Don't rely on scuttle-but, instead just follow along and/or comment at:
> applications>
>
> no scuttle-butt; nothing to follow. It's a done deal. Ubuntu UNR will
> drop OOo with version 10.04. It's been posted for awhile; I posed the
> article as it appeared on /. late last week here and
> comp.openoffice.questions. Don't have the actual article in front of
> me. Power users will just get OOo from Synaptic. I worry about first-
> time Ubuntu users (which is one of the target audiences for Netbooks it
> seems); will they even know OOo exists? I fear out userbase will take a
> hit based on this decision. How big will be interesting to try and
> gauge. Check out the article at <http://digitizor.com/2010/02/05/
> openoffice-dropped-from-ubuntu-netbook-edition-10-04/>
Actually there is something to follow:
<quote>
Whiteboard changed:
Another Update - rickspencer3 [2010-02-11]
All in all it seems that users and community members would really
prefer that we ship OOo for the editing suite. We discussed a bit in
#ubuntu-desktop this morning and decided that we should probably switch
back to OOo, which we will do on Monday if we don't hear anything that
makes us change our minds again. We'll do a proper app selection session
at next UDS.
</quote>