Questions about switching from PC to Mac - MacVisionaries

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Message from discussion Questions about switching from PC to Mac
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 14:34:11 -0400
From: Chris Blouch <cblo...@aol.com>
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To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Questions about switching from PC to Mac
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Well, I'm not sure it would pass the 'yuck' test for many people if they =

found out Apple was identifying their disability by probing their device =

and not asking permission. Personally identifiable or not. In the states =

the FTC just put out

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2010/12/101201privacyreport.pdf

which seems to imply the mere act of collecting data about a user=20
without permission is verboten. In Europe privacy is considered a human=20
right and so the rules around what you can gather without asking is even =

narrower. But this is straying far from the topic of all things Apple :)

CB

On 4/3/12 12:10 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Its anonymous, Apple are not probing your computer, they are probing a =
computer. There is in law, a difference.
>
> Your example of what you were doing can cause issues legally as cookies=
 and other such internet based tools collect data which is personally ide=
ntifiable
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil Barnfather
>
> Talks List Administrator
> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your
> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>
> URL: - www.talknav.com
> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>
>
>
> On 2 Apr 2012, at 20:05, Chris Blouch wrote:
>
> I think if it came out that Apple was probing your system to figure out=
 if you are using assistive technology (which probably means you have a d=
isability) and did this without asking you first, the press and various a=
dvocate organizations would have a field day around violation of personal=
 privacy. But, I'm not a lawyer and, in this case, it's all conjecture. I=
 do know that I was contacted by some folks from a large web advertising =
company about my coding an MSAA detector on web browsers. It eventually g=
ot shot down by their privacy folks for the aforementioned reason. So my =
opinion is not without some basis.
>
> CB
>
> On 4/2/12 2:57 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> Its anonymously collected, so would breach no privacy laws, none that =
I know of...
>>
>> I honestly and firmly believe that they would collect this data. Why o=
n Earth wouldn't they?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Neil Barnfather
>>
>> Talks List Administrator
>> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>>
>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your
>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>>
>> URL: - www.talknav.com
>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
>> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Apr 2012, at 16:46, Chris Blouch wrote:
>>
>> I suspect doing this in today's heightened awareness of consumer track=
ing and privacy, probing people's machines to discover if they were using=
 voiceover would be full of legal landmines. Many do not want to self-ide=
ntify as having a disability or have that info pried out of their system =
config and a company that did that secretly or otherwise would probably h=
ave a PR mess once it was found out.
>>
>> CB
>>
>> On 3/31/12 8:42 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote:
>>> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working=
 for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
>>>
>>> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you =
purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should  be able t=
o fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the opt=
ion for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased sy=
stem, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details o=
f blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for ch=
anges in voiceover and app support.
>>>
>>> just a thought on this.
>>>
>>> lew
>>>
>>> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ricardo,
>>>>
>>>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each =
time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't o=
rdering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are =
buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty=
 good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know th=
e exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you thin=
k at times they are not.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I really can't argue with that.  selecting text on the web is quite=
 a chore on the Mac.  I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or effici=
ency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs g=
reatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows.  But p=
rogress is being made.  If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, =
and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lo=
l.  Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 200=
9 which has some accessibility.  That's why I urge everyone to write Appl=
e sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this.  How else=
 can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback.  It doesn'=
t matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be.  Its=
 been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to=
 check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.=

>>>>>
>>>>> Ricardo Walker
>>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur<igandra...@gmail.com> =
   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> HI there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use t=
he trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any ma=
c you encounter on equal footing, having a  stable system, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my=
 case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pa=
ges contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, e=
specially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster.=
 I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reli=
able
>>>>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails =
and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differ=
ences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the ma=
c like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on=
 the  pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but=
 I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion.
>>>>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get =
the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows ver=
sion to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I t=
hink I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite  the hurdles=
=2E
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ioana
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please check out my cd on www.ioanagandrabur.com on iTunes and mos=
t online stores.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is
>>>>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a
>>>>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to us=
e
>>>>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate throug=
h
>>>>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly u=
se,
>>>>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC.=
=2E. is
>>>>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in adva=
nce!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi<gigifi...@sbcglobal.net>    wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Mark
>>>>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not =
a problem
>>>>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out =
forms. I
>>>>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tabl=
es were not
>>>>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has t=
hat choice
>>>>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista com=
puter when I
>>>>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband.
>>>>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, b=
ut I haven't
>>>>>>>> had much trouble with that.
>>>>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau<marcrocheleau@gmail=
=2Ecom>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my firs=
t post
>>>>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purch=
asing
>>>>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here si=
nce I'm
>>>>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4,=
 plan
>>>>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own =
an
>>>>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or a=
t least
>>>>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the=

>>>>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered eve=
ry five
>>>>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years=
 is up
>>>>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions t=
o ask
>>>>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it=
 was.
>>>>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the =
list.
>>>>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would=

>>>>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could=
 answer
>>>>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around h=
ere for
>>>>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new com=
ers all
>>>>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learni=
ng
>>>>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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