I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five years for those with accessibility needs.
They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer because of other questions.
So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
The best place to start is by listening to the podcasts done by Mike Arrigo on the BlindCoolTech.com site. When I decided to get a Mac a couple of years ago, I started there and they really helped me out.
Good luck, Kevin M. On Mar 28, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post > to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing > an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm > thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan > on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an > Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least > entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the > assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five > years for those with accessibility needs.
> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up > this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask > on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. > They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. > On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would > probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer > because of other questions.
> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for > such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all > the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning > about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
> -Marc
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Hey, I also have some YouTube Videos posted about the Mac and some of the features. All the videos are described but if you have trouble understanding let me know. Search HTV2, which stands for FHow to be Blind, or Mike Malarsie and it should start bringing them up. Take care!
Mike Malarsie On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post > to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing > an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm > thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan > on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an > Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least > entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the > assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five > years for those with accessibility needs.
> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up > this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask > on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. > They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. > On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would > probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer > because of other questions.
> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for > such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all > the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning > about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
> -Marc
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Give me a call. I'm a full service ADP consultant and trainer specializing in mac systems and accessories. Happy to answer any questions you may have by phone or email, or set you up a product demonstration.
> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post > to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing > an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm > thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan > on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an > Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least > entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the > assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five > years for those with accessibility needs.
> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up > this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask > on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. > They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. > On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would > probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer > because of other questions.
> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for > such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all > the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning > about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
> -Marc
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Hi Mark I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't had much trouble with that. Regards Gigi
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post > to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing > an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm > thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan > on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an > Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least > entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the > assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five > years for those with accessibility needs.
> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up > this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask > on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. > They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. > On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would > probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer > because of other questions.
> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for > such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all > the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning > about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
> -Marc
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is there any program for the Mac that is similar?
I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
> Hi Mark > I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem > for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I > have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not > an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice > of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I > absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. > Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't > had much trouble with that. > Regards Gigi
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >> years for those with accessibility needs.
>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >> because of other questions.
>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>> -Marc
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is > browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a > regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use > with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through > with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, > safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is > there any program for the Mac that is similar?
> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
> -Marc
> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> Hi Mark >> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >> had much trouble with that. >> Regards Gigi
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >> wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>> because of other questions.
>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>> -Marc
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
THe greatest challenge in my opinion for someone who has used WIndows and a WIndows-based screen reader such as WIndow-EYes or JAWS is the effort in unlearning everything you previously learned. Like it or not and I'm not interested in creating a flamewar here, but reality is how you interact with windows and using a windows screen reader is simply different on so many levels as compared to a Mac. Everyone will have a learning curve that is unique to their individual level of experience, learning abilities, and so forth. If you truly are interested in making the switch you will have to dedicate yourself to the effort and understand that you do have to put aside the windows machine and submerse yourself in the Mac experience. Lots of people are sliders and I had to learn to be a slider since I use a Mac at work, but also have to use WIndows. So, it is quite possible, but you do have to make the decision and ask yourself why you want to switch to a Mac and accept that there will be challenges along the way. Most folks I know who have switched from windows (even sighted) do not regret the switch. I did not give my wife a choice, I had all I could stand trying to keep a windows machine up for her and my kid. I eventually forced them over to TIger and neither suffered as a result and actually took to the Mac OS just fine. :)
On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur wrote:
> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable > I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. > But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>> Hello there,
>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>> -Marc
>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> Hi Mark >>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>> had much trouble with that. >>> Regards Gigi
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>> because of other questions.
>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>> -Marc
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> THe greatest challenge in my opinion for someone who has used WIndows and a WIndows-based screen reader such as WIndow-EYes or JAWS is the effort in unlearning everything you previously learned. > Like it or not and I'm not interested in creating a flamewar here, but reality is how you interact with windows and using a windows screen reader is simply different on so many levels as compared to a Mac. > Everyone will have a learning curve that is unique to their individual level of experience, learning abilities, and so forth. If you truly are interested in making the switch you will have to dedicate yourself to the effort and understand that you do have to put aside the windows machine and submerse yourself in the Mac experience. Lots of people are sliders and I had to learn to be a slider since I use a Mac at work, but also have to use WIndows. So, it is quite possible, but you do have to make the decision and ask yourself why you want to switch to a Mac and accept that there will be challenges along the way. > Most folks I know who have switched from windows (even sighted) do not regret the switch. I did not give my wife a choice, I had all I could stand trying to keep a windows machine up for her and my kid. I eventually forced them over to TIger and neither suffered as a result and actually took to the Mac OS just fine. :)
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur wrote:
>> HI there,
>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>> Hello there,
>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>> -Marc
>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> Hi Mark >>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>> had much trouble with that. >>>> Regards Gigi
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
In addition, what I find interesting when I read Windows users write about their Mac experiences is they often seem to forget that learning Windows was not easy. Obviously, years of experience and use does tend to make one forget that all of the little things that one does with Windows that is second nature did not happen overnight. Thus, when I read someone say they can do this or that with Windows more easily than they can do it on the Mac, my question that immediately comes to mind is is this a factor because they simply have not used the Mac long enough to gain the same proficiency? I can say the same things about numerous tasks I now do on the Mac as being much easier than Windows because I have now done them so many times on the Mac that they are second nature and I do have the comparison because I still use Windows to keep my skill sets sharp. In other words, comparing a few month's worth of Mac experience to ones several years of Windows experience is not exactly a sound comparison, and also you have to consider the basic reality that Windows users still find themselves thinking and expecting the Mac to act and behave like Windows. Thank God it doesn't as far as I am concerned.
> THe greatest challenge in my opinion for someone who has used WIndows and a WIndows-based screen reader such as WIndow-EYes or JAWS is the effort in unlearning everything you previously learned. > Like it or not and I'm not interested in creating a flamewar here, but reality is how you interact with windows and using a windows screen reader is simply different on so many levels as compared to a Mac. > Everyone will have a learning curve that is unique to their individual level of experience, learning abilities, and so forth. If you truly are interested in making the switch you will have to dedicate yourself to the effort and understand that you do have to put aside the windows machine and submerse yourself in the Mac experience. Lots of people are sliders and I had to learn to be a slider since I use a Mac at work, but also have to use WIndows. So, it is quite possible, but you do have to make the decision and ask yourself why you want to switch to a Mac and accept that there will be challenges along the way. > Most folks I know who have switched from windows (even sighted) do not regret the switch. I did not give my wife a choice, I had all I could stand trying to keep a windows machine up for her and my kid. I eventually forced them over to TIger and neither suffered as a result and actually took to the Mac OS just fine. :)
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur wrote:
>> HI there,
>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>> Hello there,
>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>> -Marc
>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> Hi Mark >>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>> had much trouble with that. >>>> Regards Gigi
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable > I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. > But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>> Hello there,
>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>> -Marc
>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> Hi Mark >>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>> had much trouble with that. >>> Regards Gigi
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>> wrote:
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>> because of other questions.
>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>> -Marc
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> HI there,
>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>> Hello there,
>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>> -Marc
>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> Hi Mark >>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>> had much trouble with that. >>>> Regards Gigi
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> HI there,
>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>> Hello there,
>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>> -Marc
>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark >>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
not a bad idea. I would make 1 small correction. Instead of the person stating their disability, or, the fact that they are even disabled, I would just ask if they use any accessibility features, and have them check off which ones. they use. Voiceover, zoom, etc.
> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> just a thought on this.
> lew
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>> Ricardo,
>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> just a thought on this.
> lew
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>> Ricardo,
>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To
I do not know for sure, but, since Apple send anonymous user data back to themselves from the OSx, assuming you've not said no to this, they probably have the diagnostics and reporting side of things let them know if your Mac or iOS device has Voice Over enabled or not... This would just make sense and is an obvious step for them to take.
That way they have a definitive count... I have diagnostic and usage stats turned on for all three Mac's I own plus the two iPhones and 2 iPads that are here, all of these have Voice Over enabled, although 1 of the iPads and 1 iPhone have it toggled often on /off, I bet quite considerably that Apple know about this usage.
D
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> HI there,
>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>> Hello there,
>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>> -Marc
>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark >>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group,
Hi: My dad received a Mac for Christmas. He to finds it challenging, and he is sighted. It is a learning curve. On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Jennifer Perdue wrote:
> I agree with you totally. It was a challenge when I switched too, but lists like Mac visionaries helped a lot.
> Thanks for letting me voice my opinion.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>> THe greatest challenge in my opinion for someone who has used WIndows and a WIndows-based screen reader such as WIndow-EYes or JAWS is the effort in unlearning everything you previously learned. >> Like it or not and I'm not interested in creating a flamewar here, but reality is how you interact with windows and using a windows screen reader is simply different on so many levels as compared to a Mac. >> Everyone will have a learning curve that is unique to their individual level of experience, learning abilities, and so forth. If you truly are interested in making the switch you will have to dedicate yourself to the effort and understand that you do have to put aside the windows machine and submerse yourself in the Mac experience. Lots of people are sliders and I had to learn to be a slider since I use a Mac at work, but also have to use WIndows. So, it is quite possible, but you do have to make the decision and ask yourself why you want to switch to a Mac and accept that there will be challenges along the way. >> Most folks I know who have switched from windows (even sighted) do not regret the switch. I did not give my wife a choice, I had all I could stand trying to keep a windows machine up for her and my kid. I eventually forced them over to TIger and neither suffered as a result and actually took to the Mac OS just fine. :)
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur wrote:
>>> HI there,
>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>> Hello there,
>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>> -Marc
>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark >>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
You know that is a good point and perhaps what would be interesting is when such data is shared and if that is included. I had forgotten about the diagnostic data which I also turned on for all devices.
On Mar 31, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> I do not know for sure, but, since Apple send anonymous user data back to themselves from the OSx, assuming you've not said no to this, they probably have the diagnostics and reporting side of things let them know if your Mac or iOS device has Voice Over enabled or not... This would just make sense and is an obvious step for them to take.
> That way they have a definitive count... I have diagnostic and usage stats turned on for all three Mac's I own plus the two iPhones and 2 iPads that are here, all of these have Voice Over enabled, although 1 of the iPads and 1 iPhone have it toggled often on /off, I bet quite considerably that Apple know about this usage.
> D
> Regards,
> Neil Barnfather
> Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 13:42, Lewis Alexander wrote:
> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> just a thought on this.
> lew
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>> Ricardo,
>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post
Ah, well that makes sense and one expects some sort of learning curve when switching from one OS to another. WOUld be no different then if you were switching from one version of a software program to another when a number of new features are added.
On Mar 31, 2012, at 12:34 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:
> Hi: > My dad received a Mac for Christmas. He to finds it challenging, and he is sighted. It is a learning curve. > On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Jennifer Perdue wrote:
>> I agree with you totally. It was a challenge when I switched too, but lists like Mac visionaries helped a lot.
>> Thanks for letting me voice my opinion.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>>> THe greatest challenge in my opinion for someone who has used WIndows and a WIndows-based screen reader such as WIndow-EYes or JAWS is the effort in unlearning everything you previously learned. >>> Like it or not and I'm not interested in creating a flamewar here, but reality is how you interact with windows and using a windows screen reader is simply different on so many levels as compared to a Mac. >>> Everyone will have a learning curve that is unique to their individual level of experience, learning abilities, and so forth. If you truly are interested in making the switch you will have to dedicate yourself to the effort and understand that you do have to put aside the windows machine and submerse yourself in the Mac experience. Lots of people are sliders and I had to learn to be a slider since I use a Mac at work, but also have to use WIndows. So, it is quite possible, but you do have to make the decision and ask yourself why you want to switch to a Mac and accept that there will be challenges along the way. >>> Most folks I know who have switched from windows (even sighted) do not regret the switch. I did not give my wife a choice, I had all I could stand trying to keep a windows machine up for her and my kid. I eventually forced them over to TIger and neither suffered as a result and actually took to the Mac OS just fine. :)
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
If you go on your iPhone into Settings/Location Services/System Services, or whatever it is called at the very bottom, you'll note in their the diagnostic location thingie... this of course just relates to diagnostic tests requesting your location... but, its my belief that Apple send daily reports of usage and other such data from your various hardware items to themselves all but every day.
Now of course there's nothing to worry about, its all anonymous, but, still, I have to thus believe that they know just how long my device has been on for each day, and indeed, how much of that time used Voice Over etc.
I think it is rather nyeave to assume that they do not know how many folk use Voice Over on a regular bases.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
You know that is a good point and perhaps what would be interesting is when such data is shared and if that is included. I had forgotten about the diagnostic data which I also turned on for all devices.
On Mar 31, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> I do not know for sure, but, since Apple send anonymous user data back to themselves from the OSx, assuming you've not said no to this, they probably have the diagnostics and reporting side of things let them know if your Mac or iOS device has Voice Over enabled or not... This would just make sense and is an obvious step for them to take.
> That way they have a definitive count... I have diagnostic and usage stats turned on for all three Mac's I own plus the two iPhones and 2 iPads that are here, all of these have Voice Over enabled, although 1 of the iPads and 1 iPhone have it toggled often on /off, I bet quite considerably that Apple know about this usage.
> D
> Regards,
> Neil Barnfather
> Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 13:42, Lewis Alexander wrote:
> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> just a thought on this.
> lew
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>> Ricardo,
>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
Wow, wouldn't it be fairly easy for apple to track voiceover users when you first do the setup. I would think it would be fairly easy for them to detect that voiceover was running. if not, I can only imagine it would be easy for them to simply ask that as part of the setup. I do realize that such a question may not be legal or politically correct, but, it could be 1 with a choice not to answer etc.
> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> HI there,
>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>> Hello there,
>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>> -Marc
>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark >>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
I'm sure you are correct that they do track this, but again it would be nice to know how and how that data is being aggregated. In other words, do they look only at the instances of VO being used or how often etc. All good data points. I am sure they do track this and I never thought they may not, but of course I have no idea of the extent. Of course this information helps Apple plan development. I certainly would find the info most interesting because I like stats such as these.
On Mar 31, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> If you go on your iPhone into Settings/Location Services/System Services, or whatever it is called at the very bottom, you'll note in their the diagnostic location thingie... this of course just relates to diagnostic tests requesting your location... but, its my belief that Apple send daily reports of usage and other such data from your various hardware items to themselves all but every day.
> Now of course there's nothing to worry about, its all anonymous, but, still, I have to thus believe that they know just how long my device has been on for each day, and indeed, how much of that time used Voice Over etc.
> I think it is rather nyeave to assume that they do not know how many folk use Voice Over on a regular bases.
> Regards,
> Neil Barnfather
> Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
> You know that is a good point and perhaps what would be interesting is when such data is shared and if that is included. I had forgotten about the diagnostic data which I also turned on for all devices.
> On Mar 31, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
>> I do not know for sure, but, since Apple send anonymous user data back to themselves from the OSx, assuming you've not said no to this, they probably have the diagnostics and reporting side of things let them know if your Mac or iOS device has Voice Over enabled or not... This would just make sense and is an obvious step for them to take.
>> That way they have a definitive count... I have diagnostic and usage stats turned on for all three Mac's I own plus the two iPhones and 2 iPads that are here, all of these have Voice Over enabled, although 1 of the iPads and 1 iPhone have it toggled often on /off, I bet quite considerably that Apple know about this usage.
>> D
>> Regards,
>> Neil Barnfather
>> Talks List Administrator >> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>> On 31 Mar 2012, at 13:42, Lewis Alexander wrote:
>> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
>> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
>> just a thought on this.
>> lew
>> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>>> Ricardo,
>>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> HI there,
>>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>>> Hope this helps a bit.
>>>>> Ioana
>>>>> Please check out my cd on www.ioanagandrabur.com on iTunes and most online stores.
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could
> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post > to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing > an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm > thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan > on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an > Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least > entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the > assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five > years for those with accessibility needs.
> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up > this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask > on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. > They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. > On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would > probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer > because of other questions.
> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for > such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all > the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning > about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
> -Marc
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> this has just triggered an idea and if there's anyone on list working for apple, an apple developer or beta tester, here's the idea.
> so that apple is more aware of who has purchased a mac, whenever you purchase a new mac, start up and register your mac, you should be able to fill in a questionnaire stating it's use, etc and if so include the option for disabled users including blind users. this way, each purchased system, or operating system or application supplied by apple logs details of blind users, so it gives apple a greater area of support to push for changes in voiceover and app support.
> just a thought on this.
> lew
> On 31 Mar 2012, at 10:53, Scott Howell wrote:
>> Ricardo,
>> True and we also must remember that Apple is not able to track each time a blind/visually impaired user purchases a Mac because they aren't ordering it from a company that sells products to that community. YOu are buying your Mac from the Apple store etc. So, although APple has a pretty good idea of the number of VoiceOver users, they probably do not know the exact to the last person number. So, Apple does listen even if you think at times they are not.
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> I really can't argue with that. selecting text on the web is quite a chore on the Mac. I think Safari, and lack of accessibility or efficiency of a office suite for power users of such applications is the Macs greatest weakness at this point in comparison to jaws with windows. But progress is being made. If anyone has used safari with tiger or leopard, and compared that to snow leopard or Lion, they would see what I mean. lol. Or, even iWorks 2008 which was completely inaccessible, to iWorks 2009 which has some accessibility. That's why I urge everyone to write Apple sharing some of your thoughts in regards to topics like this. How else can we honestly expect Voiceover to improve without feedback. It doesn't matter how small, or insignificant the idea or complaint might be. Its been my experience that its the little things like adding a keystroke to check the time that really can enhance the user experience of a product.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Ioana Gandrabur <igandra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> HI there,
>>>> I am going to create some controversy probably with my post.
>>>> I think the mac has some amazing features like being able to use the trackpad, having easy access to many different languages, using any mac you encounter on equal footing, having a stable system, etc.
>>>> I will say that there are enough areas where I find windows (in my case with jaws) easier to use or more smooth, consistent to use
>>>> I have not used other browsers than safari and I find that when pages contain frames it is harder to find relevant information on a page, especially when you do not know the page yet. When you do, it gets faster. I also find selecting text on webpages much more intricate and less reliable >>>> I do not need my computer for much other than browsing and emails and from time to time creating some more official letters so these differences do not affect me and I can fully enjoy the cool fun sides of the mac like the variety in voices. But I find sometimes I am more efficient on the pc. It might be that I am still new to the mac (about 5 months) but I guess maybe this side of things is worth putting out for discussion. >>>> But, after all, you can still install windows on your mac and get the best of both worlds. I do not have a pc and do not have a windows version to install on my mac so it was swim or sink with the mac for me. I think I have not drowned yet and am enjoying the swim despite the hurdles.
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>>>> Hello there,
>>>>> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is >>>>> browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a >>>>> regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use >>>>> with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through >>>>> with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, >>>>> safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is >>>>> there any program for the Mac that is similar?
>>>>> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
>>>>> -Marc
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark >>>>>> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >>>>>> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >>>>>> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >>>>>> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >>>>>> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >>>>>> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >>>>>> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >>>>>> had much trouble with that. >>>>>> Regards Gigi
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>>>>>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>>>>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>>>>>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>>>>>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>>>>>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>>>>>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>>>>>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>>>>>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>>>>>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>>>>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>>>>>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>>>>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>>>>>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>>>>>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>>>>>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>>>>>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>>>>>> because of other questions.
>>>>>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>>>>>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>>>>>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>>>>>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>>>>>> -Marc
>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
As no one seems to have actually answered any of your questions...
I can tell you that I occasionally use facebook and gmail. The facebook site currently works fine but I'm still on the old one. I haven't tried the new timeline yet, and who can say what the thing will look like in 6 months. Gmail is fine although I prefer to switch to basic html.
YoruFukurou seems to be the client of choice for twitter on the mac. In my limited experience it does just about anything you might want to do with twitter.
> It's funny you mention flash because one of my big questions is > browsing the web. I use sites like facebook, gmail, etc... on a > regular basis and was wondering how easy/difficult they are to use > with a Mac and VO -- I know facebook is a pain to navigate through > with jaws on my PC sometimes. What web browser do people mostly use, > safari? Also, I use twitter but have the qwitter client on my PC... is > there any program for the Mac that is similar?
> I'd be very grateful for any info on these topics. Thanks in advance!
> -Marc
> On 3/29/12, Gigi <gigifi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> Hi Mark >> I would like to say that the two biggest problems, and it's not a problem >> for everybody, our tables and PDF files if you need to fill out forms. I >> have gotten around this by telling one of my customers that tables were not >> an option right now. That is a choice I had. Not everybody has that choice >> of course. Ask for PDF files, I'll just have to use my vista computer when I >> absolutely have to. Actually, I gave it to my husband. >> Some people have said that there is a problem with flash also, but I haven't >> had much trouble with that. >> Regards Gigi
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Marc Rocheleau <marcrochel...@gmail.com> >> wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> I'm a transplant from the viphone list here and this is my first post >>> to MacVisionaries... be gentle.
>>> In the same way I used that list to educate myself before purchasing >>> an iPhone, I'm hoping to learn some stuff about the Mac here since I'm >>> thinking of making the jump. Seeing as how I have the iPhone 4, plan >>> on getting the next iPhone that's released in the fall and own an >>> Apple TV, I figured it made sense to migrate to the Mac... or at least >>> entertain the possibility. I live in Ontario and, thanks to the >>> assistive devices program, 75% of a new computer is covered every five >>> years for those with accessibility needs.
>>> They recently started covering Apple products and my five years is up >>> this fall so I was thinking of taking full advantage of this.
>>> With that being said, I have a variety of different questions to ask >>> on here. I just wanted to know what the best way to go about it was. >>> They cover a wide range of topics and I don't want to spam the list. >>> On the other side however, putting them all in one e-mail would >>> probably deter people from viewing certain questions they could answer >>> because of other questions.
>>> So erm... I guess I'm asking what standard practice is around here for >>> such things. I bet you guys get the same questions from new comers all >>> the time so I don't want to be repetitive either.
>>> Thanks for any advice you can lend and I look forward to learning >>> about the wonderful world of Mac! :)
>>> -Marc
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
