Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
Karen L~
--
ZOOM ZOOM!
__o
. _`\<,_
. (*)/ (*)
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WCus...@aol.com
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
Garner Woodall
Karen L~
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/926089,teacher050108.article
Chris G
"Following the crash, Shakespeare District police urged city cyclists to follow all traffic signals and wear proper safety gear while riding."
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:35:39 -0400
From: kml...@gmail.com
To: WCus...@aol.com
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
CC: mabra...@googlegroups.com
Sommers, Mark
From: mabra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mabra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen L~
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:36 PM
To: WCus...@aol.com
Cc: mabra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
Ken Young
There is no telling what happened in this case however, I have been on a number of group rides lately where stop signs and red lights were blown and Hanes Point where we as a group swerve in and out of cars moving at the posted speed limit. I don’t think anyone deserves to get hit by a car however, if we expect the same rights as a motor vehicle then maybe we should follow the same rules. I am not trying to start a debate, I am just as guilty as most of you reading this, I am however suggesting maybe we should start to follow the rules a little closer and I would guess the number of incidents would go down.
</html
pei...@gmail.com
I could write a short thesis on social responsibility and group riding
in our area, but that has been beaten to death too many times. It is
silly that there is every any question about what the right thing to
do at certain times is...
Safety is a two-way street. If drivers start noticing that cyclists
are courteous, cautious, and friendly, they are more likely to show
the same respect back for us (and might not grudgingly wish us banned
to the sidewalks). Unfortunately, I feel that we have a reputation
for being dorky, arrogant jerks wearing spandex with silly designs and
bug-eye sunglasses. Oh yeah, the guys usually shave their legs, too.
If you think about it, how many people at Haines are there as often as
we are? With so many tourists (especially RIGHT NOW), we should be
extra careful to ride as PREDICTABLY as possible. Most of these
drivers probably assume that, due to the signs posted (about cyclists
must stop...) we are probably going to stop at all of those said stop
signs. Not only do we blow through them, but we sometimes swarm
around both sides of cars which are about to enter an intersection.
I'm getting off topic here...I'm not trying to make a list of screw
ups (I'd name names if I did! =p ) , I'm just trying to say that, for
our own safety, we probably stand to benefit by riding in a more
predictable manner than we currently do.
Thanks for that link, Mark!
On May 5, 3:58 pm, "Ken Young" <bflcham...@comcast.net> wrote:
> There is no telling what happened in this case however, I have been on a
> number of group rides lately where stop signs and red lights were blown and
> Hanes Point where we as a group swerve in and out of cars moving at the
> posted speed limit. I don't think anyone deserves to get hit by a car
> however, if we expect the same rights as a motor vehicle then maybe we
> should follow the same rules. I am not trying to start a debate, I am just
> as guilty as most of you reading this, I am however suggesting maybe we
> should start to follow the rules a little closer and I would guess the
> number of incidents would go down.
>
> _____
>
> Behalf Of Chris G
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:37 PM
> To: kml...@gmail.com; wcusm...@aol.com
> Cc: mabra...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red
> light...
>
> Gawd, here's the quote from the article that just burns me up:
>
> "Following the crash, Shakespeare District police urged city cyclists to
> follow all traffic signals and wear proper safety gear while riding."
>
> _____
>
> light...
> CC: mabra...@googlegroups.com
>
> She was wearing a helmet. Until motorists realize that a car is not only a
> mode of transportation from point A to point B but potentially a murder
> weapon, will we see an end to fatalities. Whether you are a pedestrian, a
> cyclist or a motorist, the least we can do is drive, ride and walk
> responsibly.
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/926089,teacher050108.article
>
>
> man, that bites.
>
> There was a helmet recovered at the scene, but police couldn't say whether
> she was wearing it.
>
> Yeah, I'm sure she was carrying it. And I'm sure it helped a lot in the
> path of a car blowing through a red light.
>
> It's the cyclist's fault, don't you know? It's always the cyclist's fault.
>
> Although this time, because the driver wasn't insured, maybe the police
> won't be so worried about HAVING to blame the cyclist.
>
> _____
>
James Wagner
This (...same rights...same rules) is such a mis-characterization of what a safety standard actually entails. An average automobile has twice the momentum at 2mph that a cyclist has at 25mph, takes 10 times the space which doubles for about every 10mph increase, has no natural inhibitor to being used aggressively (i.e. little effort required, no fatigue), and isolates driver's senses from their surroundings. In order to simply allow automobile use on public roads, the innate notion of what is safe had to be seriously depressed.
While cyclists suffer from the same human flaws as drivers, the results of our actions are just not comparable and most laws exist to constrain the very effects of motor vehicles that are outside the realm of any cyclist.
(as is evident by the nearly non-existent traffic laws in areas where there's no motorized traffic)
James W. Wagner
From: Ken Young <bflch...@comcast.net>
To: cgou...@hotmail.com; kml...@gmail.com; wcus...@aol.com
Cc: mabra...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2008 3:58:39 PM
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
There is no telling what happened in this case however, I have been on a number of group rides lately where stop signs and red lights were blown and Hanes Point where we as a group swerve in and out of cars moving at the posted speed limit. I don’t think anyone deserves to get hit by a car however, if we expect the same rights as a motor vehicle then maybe we should follow the same rules. I am not trying to start a debate, I am just as guilty as most of you reading this, I am however suggesting maybe we should start to follow the rules a little closer and I would guess the number of incidents would go down.
From: mabra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mabra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris G
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:37 PM
To: kml...@gmail.com; wcus...@aol.com
Cc: mabra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
Gawd, here's the quote from the article that just burns me up:
"Following the crash, Shakespeare District police urged city cyclists to follow all traffic signals and wear proper safety gear while riding."
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:35:39 -0400
From: kml...@gmail.com
To: WCus...@aol.com
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
CC: mabra...@googlegroups.com
She was wearing a helmet. Until motorists realize that a car is not only a mode of transportation from point A to point B but potentially a murder weapon, will we see an end to fatalities. Whether you are a pedestrian, a cyclist or a motorist, the least we can do is drive, ride and walk responsibly.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/926089,teacher050108.article
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:21 PM, <WCus...@aol.com> wrote:
man, that bites.
There was a helmet recovered at the scene, but police couldn't say whether she was wearing it.
Yeah, I'm sure she was carrying it. And I'm sure it helped a lot in the path of a car blowing through a red light.
It's the cyclist's fault, don't you know? It's always the cyclist's fault.
Although this time, because the driver wasn't insured, maybe the police won't be so worried about HAVING to blame the cyclist.
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
WCus...@aol.com
This (...same rights...same rules) is such a mis-characterization of what a safety standard actually entails. An average automobile has twice the momentum at 2mph that a cyclist has at 25mph, takes 10 times the space which doubles for about every 10mph increase, has no natural inhibitor to being used aggressively (i.e. little effort required, no fatigue), and isolates driver's senses from their surroundings. In order to simply allow automobile use on public roads, the innate notion of what is safe had to be seriously depressed.
While cyclists suffer from the same human flaws as drivers, the results of our actions are just not comparable and most laws exist to constrain the very effects of motor vehicles that are outside the realm of any cyclist.
(as is evident by the nearly non-existent traffic laws in areas where there's no motorized traffic)
James Wagner
From: WCus...@aol.com [mailto:WCus...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:29 PM
To: james....@yahoo.com; bflch...@comcast.net; cgou...@hotmail.com; kml...@gmail.com
Cc: mabra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who ran a red light...
russ_a...@comcast.net
Fellow MABRAns,
I've read the thread thus far and James W. is on to something.
If you just want to rage about the violation of cyclists' road rights, the seemingly illogical perspective of police and the media when a cyclist gets hit or killed, or you agree with the term "murder" being applied to the unfortunate situation in Chicago, then read no further. The reality is that with millions of daily motorists in this country and tens of thousands of daily cyclists, a handful of accidental deaths each year is astoundingly low. If you want to know a few tips about riding more safely in traffic, then seek to understand the motorist's mindset, manage their negative emotions, and read on.
Let's understand the American motorist mindset - why are cars revered, and why do people seemingly get angry at the slightest hint of a cyclist on the road with them? The real reason they get angry is not what you or they think it is.
From the mid-1920s to the present, motorized vehicles in this country were considered an indispensable appliance of modern life. Owning and operating a vehicle within the law is an American right and privilege. I believe most of us would confess to being very dependent on our cars to earn a living now. Even those with the lowest paying jobs require a motorized vehicle to get to work, whether or not they own a vehicle.
NASCAR is the largest spectator sport in the USA by a very, very wide margin -- not baseball, not football, not basketball, and certainly not all forms of cycling combined. Compare the name recognition of Greg LeMond or Lance Armstrong to that of Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt across the USA and you'll understand. It's the difference between who and Elvis. Even this author has a direct blood-line to idolized NASCAR racers of the 60s, 70s and 80s. But don't try to figure out why curling is the most popular spectator sport in Canada - not hockey, not figure skating and not ice fishing. The irony is that at the turn of the 20th century, indoor track cycling was the most popular sport in America by far. When Ford introduced the Model T, that was that.
A Federal tax on gasoline was established to pay for highways, bridges and the interstate system. The Federal Highway Administration was born by this tax, and is the only Federal agency that has operated in the black ever since. What a novel idea, to operate within one's own tax budget. This is what the Secretary of Transportation meant when she unfortunately stated that cyclists have no right to our roads. What she meant to say was that cyclists are not paying for roads when they are cycling on them, and she would have been correct had she so stated.
Every commodity for day to day living was and still is brought to us by a motorized vehicle using public paved surfaces. Bicycles are still considered toys for kids and basic transportation for the absolute poorest, most destitute of adults by the majority of our population, including recent immigrants trying to live the dream. In public, our very status in society is judged by what we drive.
With this history, it's not hard to understand why Americans have this phenomenal psycho-socio-economic burden of owning, fueling and maintaining motor vehicles, not just for subsistence, but as a public proclamation of who we are and where our place is in society. Most of us have no sentience of this burden, or how to shed it. Go watch "American Graffiti" if you're still having problems with the place of the automobile in American society. Our love of and dependence on the automobile is so strong that we completely ignore the fact that there are more than 10 times the number of vehicle-related deaths in the US each year than all the deaths of Americans caused by the Iraq war to date, but the media reminds us of the cost of Iraq on almost a daily basis.
Given this deeply ingrained cultural mentality, the average American driver, who is already stressed out beyond belief, sees adult cyclists as overgrown kids endangering themselves and challenging a 100-year-old way of life. We are viewed as not having a right to the road because we're not paying the gas tax that pays for the roads and bridges. On top of it all, they are paying the state and local taxes for bike trails to GET US OFF THE ROADS. We're impeding the progress of road-going cars and trucks that made this country the economic Titan that it is today, that get us to work on time, and that deliver all the commodities of life and happiness that our forefathers paid for with their very lives. Most of all, motorists view cyclists as threats, similar to drunk drivers, because our behavior is UNPREDICTABLE; and herein lies the secret to riding safely in traffic.
Hit a cyclist and there is no telling what the consequences will be to your insurance, to points on your license, legal defense fees, etc. God forbid if you kill one or cripple one for life there will be no end to the remorse, guilt, depression and embarrassment that will hound you for the rest of your days and possibly into the next life. Kill a cyclist, and you will be psychologically stripped of your right to enjoy life for one minute more.
All negative emotions have their roots in fear. When a car driver becomes irrational, angry or aggressive at a cyclist, the subliminal root cause is that they are scared to death of hurting us or killing us because they do not know how to drive with us. Women tend to be more conscious of this anxiety produced by fear of hurting someone, while men usually channel most negative emotions into an anger response, but don't understand the root cause. The bottom line is motorists are scared and fearful of hurting us. I know I get this way when I'm driving and see kids on bikes weaving on and off the road every time they run out of sidewalk, or popping out from between parked cars. I'm not angry because they are impeding me. I'm angry because they are endangering themselves at my potential expense. I have kids of my own. And hey, isn't this how you feel when a Cat 5 rider gets squirrelly in a club training event?
The most common perspective of a uniformed, Lycra-clad cyclist by the average heartland NASCAR fan commuter is of an elitist snob who is placing their safety in the hands of the underclass plebes and serfs, who are stuck in their cars in traffic. At the same time, motorists feel they are being inconvenienced and put out by having to wait until this line-butting superior jerk takes another road. Oh the arrogance and the impudence, especially at $4.00 a gallon!
So, if we deal with and manage their fear, we will be safer, and the car, truck and bus drivers will feel better about us being in mixed traffic (see there, you thought they were just mean people, and mean people really do suck).
O.K., you've been patient, here it comes. The single-most principal of riding safely in traffic is to ACT LIKE A CAR! This is perhaps the least intuitive aspect to safe riding because we are all programmed to avoid the 2.5 tons of killing machine in the hands of someone who hasn't the foggiest idea how lethal is the object they are controlling. But at the expense of irritating motorists even more, you just might save your own life and those of your riding partners.
Some aspects of ACT LIKE A CAR include:
1) Ride five to six feet from the curb, well into the lane, and far enough out so that motorists behind you must slow down and figure out a safe way to pass. At first, this may give you the heebee jeebees, and drivers will inevitably honk or yell at you to get off the road, but this is EXACTLY what you want them to do. Only now are you being recognized as a road-going vehicle that commands the same attention (if not respect) as another car or truck. Accidents occur most often when cyclists are in a perceptual limbo between another car and a pedestrian. Hold your place in the lane and they'll eventually find a way to pass you safely. Yes, pissing them off is actually safer because they know how to deal with you as a vehicle in the same lane of traffic as other vehicles.
2) Obey the traffic laws the same as a motorized vehicle. If you want to lose respect and become a target for aggression, then skirt by cars stopped at red lights and run those lights and stop signs as if you are exempt from the law. When you see a light turn red ahead, pull into your lane and wait your turn to proceed the same as you would in your car. Every time you scoff the laws and enter that limbo between vehicle and pedestrian, you endanger yourself and you reinforce the anti-cyclist mentality of the very people who's perceptions we are trying to change.
3) Use copious hand signals and facilitate passing when safe. If motorists are being patient while driving behind you, reward them by signaling when it's safe to pass and give them a bit more room, especially if they have to cross a double yellow to get by you.
4) Take your place in a left-turn lane and while executing a left turn in an intersection the same as if you were a car.
5) Avoid riding abreast while in a group on a busy road. It's illegal.
6) Light yourself up like Parliament and the Funkadelics at a 70s disco concert when riding at night. At the very least, a bright headlight and red taillight are required by law after dark. I find the ET alien spacecraft landing look most effective if you commute regularly.
7) Know the law and know your rights. Most police are horribly ignorant of traffic laws concerning cyclists. This author has had more than a few lively discussions with local constables and state troopers that avoided a trip to the pokey, when the motorist was actually at fault, if not chargeable with vehicle assault, and taken away instead of me. Nothing gains more immediate and lasting respect by police than knowledge of the law. DC, Virginia and Maryland have similar laws governing cycling on public roads. For a long time, I kept a paper in a baggie with the top 10 points in a rear pocket as part of my kit. I stopped when I had them memorized. If you recite code by paragraph number, most police will believe you immediately. All police have the ability to look up the code in their cruisers. WABA and LAB have easy access summaries f or all 50 states and territories.
As a long-time roadie, long-distance commuter, bike safety instructor, and student of cycling law, I've learned that the safest way to ride in traffic is the least intuitive and the least practiced by racing club members - Act Like A Car!
Wishing safe riding for all,
Russ Allison
NCVC/Inova Health System
Steve Owens
bridges and the interstate system. The Federal Highway Administration
was born by this tax, and is the only Federal agency that has operated
in the black ever since. What a novel idea, to operate within one's
own tax budget. This is what the Secretary of Transportation meant
when she unfortunately stated that cyclists have no right to our
roads. What she meant to say was that cyclists are not paying for
roads when they are cycling on them, and she would have been correct
had she so stated"
interstates in most situations?
Don't buy the argument that the gas tax pays for the roads, therefore,
cyclists have no right to them. Road funding varies greatly from
state to state, and I know of no state where either state or local
roads are completely self-funding from the gasoline tax. In Maryland
for example the gas tax makes up only 1/3 of the road budget. Where
does the rest come from? You guessed it the general fund. Everytime
you make a purchse, pay income taxes, etc. you are contributing to
Maryland's road system.
I remember seeing study done several years ago that found if all
public road projects were to be self funding the gas tax would have to
be increased nine-fold! Think about that next time someone hands you
this BS argument!
On May 6, 6:47 pm, russ_alli...@comcast.net wrote:
> Fellow MABRAns,
>
> I've read the thread thus far and James W. is on to something.
>
> If you just want to rage about the violation of cyclists' road rights, the seemingly illogical perspective of police and the media when a cyclist gets hit or killed, or you agree with the term "murder" being applied to the unfortunate situation in Chicago, then read no further. The reality is that with millions of daily motorists in this country and tens of thousands of daily cyclists, a handful of accidental deaths each year is astoundingly low. If you want to know a few tips about riding more safely in traffic, then seek to understand the motorist's mindset, manage their negative emotions, and read on.
>
> Let's understand the American motorist mindset - why are cars revered, and why do people seemingly get angry at the slightest hint of a cyclist on the road with them? The real reason they get angry is not what you or they think it is.
>
> From the mid-1920s to the present, motorized vehicles in this country were considered an indispensable appliance of modern life. Owning and operating a vehicle within the law is an American right and privilege. I believe most of us would confess to being very dependent on our cars to earn a living now. Even those with the lowest paying jobs require a motorized vehicle to get to work, whether or not they own a vehicle.
>
> NASCAR is the largest spectator sport in the USA by a very, very wide margin -- not baseball, not football, not basketball, and certainly not all forms of cycling combined. Compare the name recognition of Greg LeMond or Lance Armstrong to that of Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt across the USA and you'll understand. It's the difference between who and Elvis. Even this author has a direct blood-line to idolized NASCAR racers of the 60s, 70s and 80s. But don't try to figure out why curling is the most popular spectator sport in Canada - not hockey, not figure skating and not ice fishing. The irony is that at the turn of the 20th century, indoor track cycling was the most popular sport in America by far. When Ford introduced the Model T, that was that.
>
> A Federal tax on gasoline was established to pay for highways, bridges and the interstate system. The Federal Highway Administration was born by this tax, and is the only Federal agency that has operated in the black ever since. What a novel idea, to operate within one's own tax budget. This is what the Secretary of Transportation meant when she unfortunately stated that cyclists have no right to our roads. What she meant to say was that cyclists are not paying for roads when they are cycling on them, and she would have been correct had she so stated.
>
> Every commodity for day to day living was and still is brought to us by a motorized vehicle using public paved surfaces. Bicycles are still considered toys for kids and basic transportation for the absolute poorest, most destitute of adults by the majority of our population, including recent immigrants trying to live the dream. In public, our very status in society is judged by what we drive.
>
> With this history, it's not hard to understand why Americans have this phenomenal psycho-socio-economic burden of owning, fueling and maintaining motor vehicles, not just for subsistence, but as a public proclamation of who we are and where our place is in society. Most of us have no sentience of this burden, or how to shed it. Go watch "American Graffiti" if you're still having problems with the place of the automobile in American society. Our love of and dependence on the automobile is so strong that we completely ignore the fact that there are more than 10 times the number of vehicle-related deaths in the US each year than all the deaths of Americans caused by the Iraq war to date, but the media reminds us of the cost of Iraq on almost a daily basis.
>
> Given this deeply ingrained cultural mentality, the average American driver, who is already stressed out beyond belief, sees adult cyclists as overgrown kids endangering themselves and challenging a 100-year-old way of life. We are viewed as not having a right to the road because we're not paying the gas tax that pays for the roads and bridges. On top of it all, they are paying the state and local taxes for bike trails to GET US OFF THE ROADS. We're impeding the progress of road-going cars and trucks that made this country the economic Titan that it is today, that get us to work on time, and that deliver all the commodities of life and happiness that our forefathers paid for with their very lives. Most of all, motorists view cyclists as threats, similar to drunk drivers, because our behavior is UNPREDICTABLE; and herein lies the secret to riding safely in traffic.
>
> Hit a cyclist and there is no telling what the consequences will be to your insurance, to points on your license, legal defense fees, etc. God forbid if you kill one or cripple one for life there will be no end to the remorse, guilt, depression and embarrassment that will hound you for the rest of your days and possibly into the next life. Kill a cyclist, and you will be psychologically stripped of your right to enjoy life for one minute more.
>
> All negative emotions have their roots in fear. When a car driver becomes irrational, angry or aggressive at a cyclist, the subliminal root cause is that they are scared to death of hurting us or killing us because they do not know how to drive with us. Women tend to be more conscious of this anxiety produced by fear of hurting someone, while men usually channel most negative emotions into an anger response, but don't understand the root cause. The bottom line is motorists are scared and fearful of hurting us. I know I get this way when I'm driving and see kids on bikes weaving on and off the road every time they run out of sidewalk, or popping out from between parked cars. I'm not angry because they are impeding me. I'm angry because they are endangering themselves at my potential expense. I have kids of my own. And hey, isn't this how you feel when a Cat 5 rider gets squirrelly in a club training event?
>
> The most common perspective of a uniformed, Lycra-clad cyclist by the average heartland NASCAR fan commuter is of an elitist snob who is placing their safety in the hands of the underclass plebes and serfs, who are stuck in their cars in traffic. At the same time, motorists feel they are being inconvenienced and put out by having to wait until this line-butting superior jerk takes another road. Oh the arrogance and the impudence, especially at $4.00 a gallon!
>
> So, if we deal with and manage their fear, we will be safer, and the car, truck and bus drivers will feel better about us being in mixed traffic (see there, you thought they were just mean people, and mean people really do suck).
>
> O.K., you've been patient, here it comes. The single-most principal of riding safely in traffic is to ACT LIKE A CAR! This is perhaps the least intuitive aspect to safe riding because we are all programmed to avoid the 2.5 tons of killing machine in the hands of someone who hasn't the foggiest idea how lethal is the object they are controlling. But at the expense of irritating motorists even more, you just might save your own life and those of your riding partners.
>
> Some aspects of ACT LIKE A CAR include:
>
> 1) Ride five to six feet from the curb, well into the lane, and far enough out so that motorists behind you must slow down and figure out a safe way to pass. At first, this may give you the heebee jeebees, and drivers will inevitably honk or yell at you to get off the road, but this is EXACTLY what you want them to do. Only now are you being recognized as a road-going vehicle that commands the same attention (if not respect) as another car or truck. Accidents occur most often when cyclists are in a perceptual limbo between another car and a pedestrian. Hold your place in the lane and they'll eventually find a way to pass you safely. Yes, pissing them off is actually safer because they know how to deal with you as a vehicle in the same lane of traffic as other vehicles.
>
> 2) Obey the traffic laws the same as a motorized vehicle. If you want to lose respect and become a target for aggression, then skirt by cars stopped at red lights and run those lights and stop signs as if you are exempt from the law. When you see a light turn red ahead, pull into your lane and wait your turn to proceed the same as you would in your car. Every time you scoff the laws and enter that limbo between vehicle and pedestrian, you endanger yourself and you reinforce the anti-cyclist mentality of the very people who's perceptions we are trying to change.
>
> 3) Use copious hand signals and facilitate passing when safe. If motorists are being patient while driving behind you, reward them by signaling when it's safe to pass and give them a bit more room, especially if they have to cross a double yellow to get by you.
>
> 4) Take your place in a left-turn lane and while executing a left turn in an intersection the same as if you were a car.
>
> 5) Avoid riding abreast while in a group on a busy road. It's illegal.
>
> 6) Light yourself up like Parliament and the Funkadelics at a 70s disco concert when riding at night. At the very least, a bright headlight and red taillight are required by law after dark. I find the ET alien spacecraft landing look most effective if you commute regularly.
>
>
> read more »
Scott Haverstick
accept that the primary problem for drivers is their fear of doing
harm to cyclists. I've seen absolutely no reason to accept that premise.
sent from mobile
nathan goates
>> the area where cyclists need to make improvements is really in the matter of predictability, being consistent and uniform (group cohesiveness), in their divergence from the motorist's pattern of behavior, as opposed to pretending to be a motor vehicle.
>> The single-most principal of riding safely in traffic is to ACT LIKE A CAR!
A bicycle is not a car. In fact, a bicycle resembles a car in no meaningful way. Therefore it makes no sense to constrain the "proper" behavior of a cyclist on the roadway to what a car can and cannot do. Because traffic laws were written largely without consideration of non-motorized traffic, I consider myself only vaguely subject to traffic law when riding a bicycle.
...
What is or should be "proper" bicycling behavior is perhaps an open question...but one that it seems to me has been reasonably negotiated culturally. In other words, while there is always some deviance--as there is with motorist behavior as well--I find most (experienced) cyclist behavior, riding alone or riding in groups, reasonably appropriate and predictable...including *gasp* the generally accepted practice of not coming to complete stops at stop signs or signals or *double gasp* riding along side or between rows of cars stopped in heavy traffic. And what's more, I do not think motorists, so long as cyclist behavior does not impede the general flow of traffic, find these behaviors (for the most part--there are clearly exceptions) especially disconcerting.
Peace, it seems to me, is accommodating differences, not imposing conformity.
Nathan Goates
Shippensburg, PA
CW
photos of offending drivers and their vehicle tags (whenever possible)
and post them to this website:
http://www.communitywalk.com/washington/dc/close_calls_dc/map/129291
I follow up, when possible, of forwarding the photo and report to the
police. ...to be honest, neither authority I've reported to
(Arlington PD nor the NPS) has actually DONE anything with it that I
know of. ...but I'll keep trying as long as motorists keep doing
idiotic things.
My intention is provide a resource for other cyclists and pedestrians
to know where trouble spots are in the area. ...and maybe if a cyclist
or pedestrian gets hit by one of these drivers, some lawyer can use
this information to utterly destroy the life of the driver....the way
they probably destroyed the life of the cyclist/pedestrian they hit.
When enough drivers have had *their* lives destroyed by careless or
aggressive driving, maybe motorists will approach driving with a level
of fear commensurable with the lethal force they wield when they get
behind the wheel. Wouldn't it be nice if motorists were more afraid
of hitting cyclists, than cyclists were of getting hit?
And as far as this business about cyclists "acting like cars" goes, I
agree that there is some level of shared responsibility for everyones'
safety and security. However, most states attempt to treat cyclists
and motorists equally; which is a flawed approach, since cyclists do
not wield the same lethal force that motorists wield and are
incomparably more vulnerable. Nearly all of my close calls have been
while obeying the law, while at intersections, while motorists made
mistakes or were being outright aggressive. I refuse to spend any
more time at an intersection or traffic signal than I can physically
avoid. Any law that attempts to force me to endanger myself by
prolonging my presence there directly conflicts with my rights to
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
CW
Jim Wilson
I was chased down and beeped and cursed while I was down-hilling at 35 MPH
on a neighborhood street (Military Road, Arlington) by a fellow driving his
parents' car. He had one of those vanity plates that was easily remembered.
I stopped, called the Arlington cops. Made a report. I was straightforward
and low-key with the officers. They looked up the license plate -- it was in
the neighborhood. They called the (elderly) parents who, apparently,
admonished their middle-age son. The cops asked me if I wanted to file a
charge; I did not.
So, at least sometimes, the system works.
Jim
Karen L~
and Lead by Example.
And yes, I do roll through a stop sign or light if there are no cars or pedestrians or other objects in my path, I try to be safe about it though (I make this statement using the C.Y.A. method since someone may see my riding and not stopping for every single light or stop sign!).
BE SAFE, because you make a difference to someone out there somewhere!
wha?does this mean that I should, or should not, stop at the sign?you are complicating this beyond recognition. I think I know what you're saying, which is that predictability, even without parity in obeisance to rules, will bring enlightenment.I think you're giving way too much credit to drivers. drivers don't have respect for cyclists because they think that cyclists don't have respect for them. screw them begets screw them. and the lack of respect for drivers is true enough, even as we cyclists, or most of us anyway, spend a fair amount of time behind the wheel.
In a message dated 5/5/2008 8:40:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, james....@yahoo.com writes:The notion of respect relies just as much on the question of what two things are comparable as does the question of safety. Since The Golden Rule is about treatment of other people it should always beg the questions of what behaviors are similar. It certainly doesn't mean a bicycle can treat a car as the car treats the bicycle.When I am driving, I certainly don't feel I am being respectful to cyclists when I (accidentally) add to the effort they're already making by causing them to act as if they're the threat my vehicle is. Far from it, I am always struck by how disrespectful driving is, to subject cyclists (and others) on the roadway to the danger, pollution, and congested roads it creates. All of which cyclists have no part in producing.Maybe, as someone alluded to, the area where cyclists need to make improvements is really in the matter of predictability, being consistent and uniform (group cohesiveness), in their divergence from the motorist's pattern of behavior, as opposed to pretending to be a motor vehicle. (since even safe, defensive riding can be achieved without dropping to that level).Additionally, I am always struck by the big difference in impact between riders just single-mindedly blowing around/through traffic versus actually making indications to drivers of their intentions. Maneuvering in a forthright and thoughtful way seems to help underscore that it is not meant to be subversive or unfair, even if the drivers might disapprove of it all. And in the general public's eyes, riders having a better chance at avoiding the hooligan label.
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
Garner Woodall
Similarly, I often find that running a stop light on a busy road (assuming its clear to cross) has the same effect. If I get to the light first and stop, then thirty cars queue up behind me, I have two choices. One, I can wait for the light and significantly hinder the forward motion of the whole line of traffic once the light turns green. Alternatively, I can run the light, get back up to a speed that is close to the posted limit (if not at or above it) and the traffic behind me is not impeded. Option two means more people behind me will actually get through that green light.
Where I get highly annoyed is when riders take this mentality into a group ride, where it is not appropriate. I can't stand when an inconsiderate and narcissistic wannabe pro rider who is a slave to his power meter leads a group ride, comes to a red light or stop sign, sees that he can make it through, and proceeds to lead an entire group through. His actions nearly get some of the riders behind him killed and he could give a damn, because after all, his coach wants him to keep his watts up to a certain level today. Similarly, hotheads that "attack" between stop signs at Hains Point with no purpose other than to get other riders mired in traffic and outside the relative safety of the pack deserve a special place in hell.
G.
nathan goates <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff Via
Do we really think they care about us when they system doesn’t even care about the ones that protect and serve?? And then this happens…………………………………..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354402,00.html
What a joke……………………………………this person is free to keep on going. So people living in Howard Co beware……………………………………..
From: Jeff Via
[mailto:jlv...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:49 PM
To: 'kml...@gmail.com'
Subject: RE: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by driver who
ran a red light...
Do we think that they care about cyclists when they don’t really care about the ones that protect and serve and let this happen……………………………………….
Shawn Downing - CTY / Johns Hopkins University
The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) has a "Justice for All"
campaign aimed at enhancing penalties for right-of-way traffic
violations that effect pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorcyclists. I
know of no bicycling advocacy group attempting such nationwide change in laws.
Get behind the AMA (yourself personally or your club)
http://www.amadirectlink.com/justice/index.asp
or one of the other groups that support increased penalties for
right-of-way violations
http://www.amadirectlink.com/justice/groups.asp
Shawn Downing
Shawn Downing
King Pawn - Chesapeake Wheelmen, vice-president
P.O. Box 9372
Baltimore, MD 21228
Established 1946, one of America's oldest cycling clubs
http://www.chesapeakewheelmen.org
King Pawn
http://www.kingpawn.com
Jay Ulfelder
Without discouraging anyone from supporting these kinds of
national efforts, I would *encourage* all of you to focus
your advocacy in this area on your state and local
authorities. That's where the real legislative action
happens on rights of way, penalties for infractions, bike
lanes, and the like.
For example, just this past session, Maryland's legislature
considered a bill that would have required motorists to give
bicyclists at least 3 ft. of space when passing. That's on
the books now as a recommendation, but this bill would have
given that recommendation the force of law. Now, I know it's
not like the police are going to start throwing tickets at
drivers who brush by riders, but it would be another
leverage point for riders trying to exercise their rights to
the road.
Probably the most important first step in this direction for
all of us is to get informed about what current local and
state law is, and then to think about how it could be
better. WABA does exactly that kind of thing on a regional
level, and they deserve our support for that work, but
individual citizens can make a difference, too.
It probably sounds crass, but I think state and county
officials are especially likely to be moved by calls to
action from riders who've been hit or threatened by
motorists. I get the sense that your advocacy will be most
effective if you can tie the action you'd like them to take
to personal experience and avoid diatrabes and polemics
along the way.
Regards,
Jay U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Downing - CTY / Johns Hopkins University"
<shawn....@jhu.edu>
To: <mabra...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:40 AM
Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Cyclist in Chicago killed by
driver who ran a red light...
>
Hanson, Karen
representative. Face it, squeaky wheels get grease. Who are cyclists?
Generally those of us on these lists are successful professionals. What
is that to your representative? A vote. Why don't they vote your way?
You never go to the meetings and push them to do what YOU want. Get out
there, be heard! Do it locally.
Here in VA VDOT does most of the roads for the counties. Counties pay
1/2 the cost. VDOT will blame the county, County will blame VDOT.
Trick is to get them both in the same room so that they cant hide behind
the other one!
If everyone on the list started bugging their representatives stuff
would get done. Its really funny how minority views become MAJORITY
views just by the amount of noise they generate. (Think I'm wrong on
this? Look at the Moral Majority- who was really a minority, but they
came out in force while the rest of us were out riding...)
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: mabra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mabra...@googlegroups.com]