Discussion - Air Compressor

[Tim Miller]

Discussion about funds allocation petition. This is not a fap. 

We need an air compressor that can actually run the pile of air tools in the basement.  Grinders, cutoff wheels, vacuums, air chizel, impact wrench, screw gun, air nailer, media blaster, paint gun. 

Requirements 

     at least 10 CFM @ 90psi

     filtered for the dust

     humidity remover

     easy maintenance

     simple to operate

     will fit into the basement and can be put in the basement

     220 or less single phase preferred

Nice to have

     Auto drain for main tank(accessory) ~$125

Info on air compressors

CFM - Cubic Feet per Minute - this is how much air is comong out of the end of the hose per minute

PSI - Pounds Square Inch - This is how much pressure the air is applying

http://www2.northerntool.com/shop/tools/buyers-guides_air-compressors

I know they are specifying 4x and I am basing 1 or 2 times but I am not trying to sell air compressors and am basing it off of experience less is fine most cases and the other cases it is only a slight delay.

(this is still not a fap)

Tank- holds the air the bigger the tank the more stable the airflow. can be horizontal- more mobile or vertical- less space

Pump - pressurizes the air list in order of effectiveness:  bladder, 1 stage, 2 stage, and screw

Regulator - controlls the flow of the air leaving the tank

water seperator/trap - first step can remove 40%-60% of moisture in the lines

Desiccant air dryer - very good for using with sprayers and sandblasters - used after other methods of drying and adds lots of maintenance overhead

electric autodrain for tank - performs the most overlooked air tank maintenance automaticly

airtool oiler- not good for using with anything that expells materials. Can be bypassed with a bottle of air tool oil in a mixed use system

(this is still not a fap)

info on water removal

http://www.centrair.ca/removing-water-from-compressed-air.html

idea is to maybe place it in the dead room by the old air unit or under the stairs.

Less noise in main room from compressor

not running pipe the entire length of the building$$$

gives distance to run the pipe in a way that will remove some moisture before reaching tools

can't really walk in those places easily anyways

No qoutes for 

circuit breaker, wire 10/3, an outlet depending if it is straight wired or a plug 

pipe - plastic, rubber, gas, pvc, copper, anything rated to hold 200psi

(this is still not a fap)

$95 Hose 100' retracting spool by the garage door; access parking lot and entire main room. http://www.amazon.com/8-Inch-Feet-100ft-Retractable-Rubber/dp/B000FA91CI/

retracting spool in the metal area,  in the middle of the benches. woodshop above the center table, big room above the one in the basement?

$160 $80x2 50ft http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/hose-reels/50-ft-retractable-air-water-hose-reel-with-3-8-eighth-inch-hose-93897.html

$50 25ft http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/hose-reels/25-ft-heavy-duty-retractable-air-hose-reel-46104.html

$140 $35x4 regulator- it keeps stuff regulated- it is suggested that you regulate at the point where the line is going to the tool in a multipoint setup to allow different uses. http://www.amazon.com/JET-JAR-338-8-Inch-NPT-Regulator/dp/B004P434DC/   price varies a lot and will be mostly determined by line size.

$120 water trap/filter http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-PA2085-Clean-System/dp/B0009KN9T0   most alternatives are around ~$500 

$30 $10x3 http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog/product/view/id/8128/category/706/ Also will need to change out the connectors on the hoses and some tools to all work together. a couple of air nozzles for each hose point. 

= $595 pre tax/shipping for accessories not including power and air lines

(this is still not a fap)

There are a few options for Air compressors that are affordable and don't suck a lot.

1: Harbour freight 

for $900 this one is on back order http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-compressors/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html

for $650 this one is available now http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-compressors/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-55391.html

2: there is a possibility that at a peddlers market in this area there is a Campbell Hausfeld factory second/fell of truck  

~$500 piece it together yourself model; if you can get all the pieces it should work http://www.chpower.com/productdetail/5-hp-80-gallon-two-stage-air-compressor_xp5810

3: $1000 buy that questionable thing, as a working compressor from a company that is an official dealer, as a note Campbell Hausfeld is in Cincinatti, Ohio.

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-TQ3104-Air-Compressor/p7630.html

4: Craigslist $100-1000 may not be working, probably worn out, or could be brand new

someone that is not me will have to organize this but it is still an option.

(this is still not a fap) if you +1 this you are an idiot and i will mock and ridicule you even if you did it as a joke.

[#]

at least 10 CFM @ 90psi

    i have one thats max is about the same i i believe an it wont kick over a impact wrench
 , really sucks  

i know harbor freight sells Desiccant air dryer and filters as i added those to mine ,  10$ maybe i forget .

   ive been looking for a bigger tank myself , i see harbor freight sells compressor heads you could add to your own tank ,    found some used 80 gallon tanks fairly cheap
  
  i dunno been tryin to weigh out buying a compressor head an tank myself ,  a buddy suggested capping PVC pipe an useing it as tanks but sounds like a bomb to me ,. 

[Jeff Johnson]

Never use PVC for compressed air.  Ever.  Get certified tanks, or preferably a unit with a tank.  An axilliary tank isn't a bad thing for increased CFM a distance away however.  If running lines, best to use black iron or galvanized pipe.

[#]

yeah i agree , just sounds not safe

    i really would like to run hard lines around the garage ,    its on my list of one day when im not broke things to do ,

cool to see you all getting bigger more industrial tools ,   really wish you all had that metal mill  hardly a day goes by i didnt think damn i need access to one ,   be damned they cost so much !

[Tim Miller]

10CFM at 90lbs will run an 1/2" impact. if it doesn't you need to oil your impact gun.

if you look at the kits from the air compressor retailers for running distance lines none of them are black pipe or galvanized. Most installs are using PEX it is cheaper easier and more flexible. Copper is pretty much gone because of cost.There is pvc rated for this pressure but it is not used often because it is prone to shatter if hit wrong and expensive I put it on the list because it is an option not necessarily the best one. you could even use clay pipe if you wanted but it has the same problem as pvc.

Using a tank that is not certified is a bad idea, there is a reason there is a certification for them. I do not want the liability for negligence if it goes wrong. 

[Jeff Johnson]

PEX can handle the pressure, but many in the industry prefer metal  pipe for fire resistance, heat dissipation, and prevention of sags that can act as a water collection and freeze/bust (unlikely though it may be).  I don't really have a dog in that hunt, I'm okay with whatever as long as it is not PVC.  I had a glued water connection bust and that was just 50 PSI of water, (and yes, it was done by a professional plumber).   Air can be as high as 150 psi (or higher). depending on the compressor and regulated setting.  OSHA hates PEX for air lines (or so I've heard), but OSHA are idiotic control freaks IMO.

[Tim Miller]

its technically PEX-AL-PEX  it is a aluminum PEX sandwich used for compressed air and heater lines. Not the standard kitchen sink hookup stuff. OSHA is like any other regulatory body, change means the people who pay them off have changed and they are worried about their kickbacks. That and now i believe they require 5 or 6 sequential 100 year studies before anything is deemed safe.

[Jeff Johnson]

 

[Tim Miller]

I had thought about those but I think the retractable ones will be a better solution. The main reason why is the electric cords. people already are leaving them unwound laying across the floor and tables.  I just don't see people hand winding an air hose which is harder to do.  One reason is that hand wound reels need to be where people can reel them in and can't be placed out of the way on the ceilings. The other reason is we have one of those reels in the basement it is pretty much useless.

   The main most important decision in this email is which compressor.  I'm leaning towards the 3rd option.  It is a local company. It has a real warranty. The company has a good reputation.  The acceptable reviewed Harbour freight one is out of stock and only $100 cheaper.  I am not sure a seek and find DIY compressor from questionable sources is a good idea for liability reasons. 

[Jeff Johnson]

Well these might be of use, if you want to keep the tools oiled and have different regulated pressures at different point of use.

     

[Aaron VerDow]

I like option 3, I think for the risk/savings ratio is too high for some of the other options.

[Pat McCarthy]

Personally, I do not care if it is a hose, a fitting, or an air tool.

If it is from Harbor Freight, I really do not want it in any LP Air set that is operational…..

 

Their hammers make good Hammers

Their Wrenches make good hammers

Their Screw Drivers make good hammers

.

.

.

Their Air Hose Couplings make good missiles… (which will strike like a good hammer)

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[Tim Miller]

proof or conjecture?

[#]

lol,      

[Pat McCarthy]

I have proof on the first 3

 

Yes, it is a logical fallacy to argue to the general case from examples (Dicto Simpliciter)

 

BUT, us Alarmists & Safety engineers live by that one……….

 

So, I have not SEEN a harbor freight air tool go left

But I have some cool tools made by them… Box wrench with a bent jaw

Open ended wrench with a missing end (Yes, snapped off)

Torque wrench with a bent handle

[Sean McPherson]

From personal experience, I don't buy anything from HB that I am not willing to see break under use. Drills, wrenches, screwdrivers, pulleys, anything welded, painted or plastic :) So, I'd be happier if we pay a few extra bucks for stuff that might last a lot longer ad avoid missile-like properties (I've had their air equipment come apart on my on *low* presure use).

Sean

[Tim Miller]

I have seen one of the Harbor Freight connectors break; I dropped a 5 lb impact on it and it bent and sheered off. Hoses break usually because of being left laying out and are trampled on, which is why I picked out auto winding spools. Only air tool i have seen fail catastrophically was from Sears it was a grinder that had the angled neck come off. Luckily the parts missed my face because I wasn't wearing any eye protection. 

Air and power tools are extremely dangerous no matter who makes them that is why we have gloves, aprons, glasses, shields, and dust masks. 

Also I ripped the head off of a harbor freight hammer. There is different qualities of tools you can get from them. Some things you don't buy unless you plan on tossing it, some things last years because the cheapest way to make it was the same way everyone else does.

[#]

+1

[Jeff Johnson]

Pat, stop being chicken little.  :-)  I would never use HFT for anything to its design limits, but I've been using the air stuff for years and have had no problems.  Their air nailer skips occassionally, but for half price I can live with that.