duplicating antique roll pans

[Joe Ibershoff]

TL;DR version: I want to take on a (hopefully simple) metalworking project, but I have no experience working with metal.  Is there someone willing to help me get started?

Every Christmas and Thanksgiving, we make rolls using a recipe that that has been in my family since who-knows-when.  We cook them using what my mom calls "the roll pans", which look similar to french bread pans (e.g. http://www.flickr.com/photos/nolacuisine/96520513/).  Here are the best pics I could manage:

• http://www.joe.ibershoff.com/rollpan/20121226_202409.jpg
  
• http://www.joe.ibershoff.com/rollpan/20121226_202744.jpg
  
• http://www.joe.ibershoff.com/rollpan/20121226_202827.jpg
  

The ones we have are a minimum of 70 years old, possibly longer.  They're steel, solid, and have ~2" diameter scallops; the only commercially-available french bread pans I can find are aluminum, perforated, and/or large diameter, and thus are not suitable replacements/substitutes.  (My mom once had a metalworker make a couple for her, but the new ones are aluminum and just don't get the same result as the old steel ones.)  As these are part of our traditional holiday menu, that means there aren't nearly enough to go around to everyone in the family.  If we can't find a way to get or make more, there may someday be a feud in my family over who gets the "real" ones.  ;-)

So, I'm interested in trying my hand at crafting some.  I'm comfortable using typical handheld power tools with wood, but have never really worked with metal beyond using tin snips on ductwork.  I can bring in one of the pans I'd like to duplicate.  Is someone willing to help me get started by giving some guidance/advice and showing me how to use the appropriate tools?

Thanks,

 -- Joe I.

[Ben Hibben]

Just an off-the-cuff guesstimate from the pictures:

You'll need to find the right material and then we'll need to see if our metal-break is rated for that gauge (thickness) of that material.  It may require a more serious metal-break than what we have.

That pan appears to have been formed by stamping -- again I want to stress this is a guess based on a picture.  Making something "close" should be doable but making something exact would require more money than you want to think about.

If you could find pipe of the right material and thickness welding cut sections together might work.  My guess is that you're going to need to use a metal-break to roll it to the desired shape and my guess is that it's going to take a few attempts to get the technique right (you may want to start with a cheaper and easier metal to get the technique down first.

Alternatively you could try forming it by hammer but that's a special skill and would still require a forming service, lots of practice, and merely get you "very close".

Looking forward to seeing you at one of our meetings!

Blenster

[Ben Hibben]

I've been mulling this over and I think I know how I'd approach making this now.  First I'd find a nice, sturdy, heavy-duty pipe of the right outer diameter to make the inner radius and a nice heavy hammer wrapped in plastic or leather.  I'd pound the steel around the pipe and curl it around at least 85% of the way, if not more, and then mark off the 50% point, find a nice, heavy-duty piece of metal I can hammer on that's sufficiently narrow but very strong and then add in a crease to bend back the first 50%.  Rinse and repeat for the other 3 sections.  Lots of loud pounding and a good workout but it ought to work.

Anyway that'd be my first guess at how to attempt to make that by hand.

Blenster

[Jeff Johnson]

can you just get stainless pipe and cut a section out to make the pans?  Maybe weld them together with a stainless steel welder (professionally done).

[Joe Ibershoff]

Thanks for the thoughts folks.  Unfortunately I forgot to bring the roll pan with me back to Louisville.  So, it will be a few weeks at least before I could bring it in to the space.  However, that may not be necessary -- I can probably estimate fairly well given a sample of something else to compare against -- I'll see browse around the hardware store and see how confident I am in estimating the gauge based on what I can find there.

The pictures don't make this clear, but we're talking about fairly thin sheet metal.  Well less than 1/32", maybe as little as 1/64".  It's pretty flexible, and though it would take some effort to deform it, I have no doubt I could bend back a corner with a cheap pair of pliers.

As suggestions on what kind of steel I'll want?  The originals have a nice black non-stick layer cooked onto them (like with well-seasoned cast iron) -- will stainless season like that, or should I look for something else?  I'm not married to the idea of making something exactly like the original, but it does seem like a black vs shiny surface could impact how it behaves in an oven.

Jeff, when I'm at the store I'll see if there's any pipe of about the right diameter and gauge.  I'd rather do it myself than getting someone else to do the toughest part, but it may not really be necessary to join the sections together.  Individual sections wouldn't be quite as convenient for getting in and out of the oven, but otherwise I'd expect it to be about the same functionally (and would take less space to store).  On the other hand I'm curious to learn how to work with metal, so I might want to do something more involved just for the learning experience.

Thanks for the help so far!

 -- Joe I.

[dammitcoetzee]

I think you can do this with a bunch of fancy equipment or a hammer, a piece of pipe, some earplugs, and patience.

[#]

    thinking just stainless steel tube ,  split in half length wise then welded down one seam .           

  dunno if you have seen those old pyrex bake a rounds http://www.pyrexlove.com/pyrex-bake-a-round/glassware/    but that could be a option maybe ,      you can buy Borosilicate tube online and at what ever length you need ,  http://www.waleapparatus.com/store.asp?pid=18619

[Raj]

I'm not sure if the goal is to have fun making a french roll pan, or if you just want a durable roll pan you can use.  If it's the latter, there are many cast iron french roll pans on ebay, starting at about $40.  Here's one for example that's large and is about $50:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-CAST-IRON-CAMP-FIRE-CORN-BREAD-STICK-PAN-11-SLOT-BAKING-FRENCH-ROLL-MOLD-/370723008710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5650d030c6

If you want to make one, you might be able to start with corrugated steel sheeting and use it as it is, or perhaps deform it to the curvature you desire. 

---

From: Joe Ibershoff <j...@ibershoff.com>
To: lv...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: {LVL1} duplicating antique roll pans

Thanks for the thoughts folks.  Unfortunately I forgot to bring the roll pan with me back to Louisville.  So, it will be a few weeks at least before I could bring it in to the space.  However, that may not be necessary -- I can probably estimate fairly well given a sample of something else to compare against -- I'll see browse around the hardware store and see how confident I am in estimating the gauge based on what I can find there.

The pictures don't make this clear, but we're talking about fairly thin sheet metal.  Well less than 1/32", maybe as little as 1/64".  It's pretty flexible, and though it would take some effort to deform it, I have no doubt I could bend back a corner with a cheap pair of pliers.

As suggestions on what kind of steel I'll want?  The originals have a nice black non-stick layer cooked onto them (like with well-seasoned cast iron) -- will stainless season like that, or should I look for something else?  I'm not married to the idea of making something exactly like the original, but it does seem like a black vs shiny surface could impact how it behaves in an oven.

Jeff, when I'm at the store I'll see if there's any pipe of about the right diameter and gauge.  I'd rather do it myself than getting someone else to do the toughest part, but it may not really be necessary to join the sections together.  Individual sections wouldn't be quite as convenient for getting in and out of the oven, but otherwise I'd expect it to be about the same functionally (and would take less space to store).  On the other hand I'm curious to learn how to work with metal, so I might want to do something more involved just for the learning experience.

Thanks for the help so far!

 -- Joe I.

On Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:20:28 PM UTC-5, Jeff Johnson wrote:

can you just get stainless pipe and cut a section out to make the pans?  Maybe weld them together with a stainless steel welder (professionally done).

On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Ben Hibben <the.bl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been mulling this over and I think I know how I'd approach making this now.  First I'd find a nice, sturdy, heavy-duty pipe of the right outer diameter to make the inner radius and a nice heavy hammer wrapped in plastic or leather.  I'd pound the steel around the pipe and curl it around at least 85% of the way, if not more, and then mark off the 50% point, find a nice, heavy-duty piece of metal I can hammer on that's sufficiently narrow but very strong and then add in a crease to bend back the first 50%.  Rinse and repeat for the other 3 sections.  Lots of loud pounding and a good workout but it ought to work.

Anyway that'd be my first guess at how to attempt to make that by hand.

Blenster

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Ben Hibben <the.bl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just an off-the-cuff guesstimate from the pictures:

You'll need to find the right material and then we'll need to see if our metal-break is rated for that gauge (thickness) of that material.  It may require a more serious metal-break than what we have.

That pan appears to have been formed by stamping -- again I want to stress this is a guess based on a picture.  Making something "close" should be doable but making something exact would require more money than you want to think about.

If you could find pipe of the right material and thickness welding cut sections together might work.  My guess is that you're going to need to use a metal-break to roll it to the desired shape and my guess is that it's going to take a few attempts to get the technique right (you may want to start with a cheaper and easier metal to get the technique down first.

Alternatively you could try forming it by hammer but that's a special skill and would still require a forming service, lots of practice, and merely get you "very close".

Looking forward to seeing you at one of our meetings!

Blenster

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Joe Ibershoff <j...@ibershoff.com> wrote:

TL;DR version: I want to take on a (hopefully simple) metalworking project, but I have no experience working with metal.  Is there someone willing to help me get started?

Every Christmas and Thanksgiving, we make rolls using a recipe that that has been in my family since who-knows-when.  We cook them using what my mom calls "the roll pans", which look similar to french bread pans (e.g. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ nolacuisine/96520513/).  Here are the best pics I could manage: