Want input on MIG wire welder - aluminum capable
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Tim Miller
Jan 25, 2012, 1:46:54 PM1/25/12
to LVL1
Disclaimer stick/arc welders are great, and technically it is possible to weld with oxy/acetylene. But if you are not trained and experienced in using them and the machines, those methods honestly just suck. If you just want to get something welded and move on they can be a time sink. I know I am not experienced enough in any of them to make a reliable weld that doesn't look like I vomited metal all over the place. I don't know many who are and able to be at the space all the time to teach others.
But just about anyone can use a wire fed MIG it is almost like using a hot glue gun except its metal and normally doesn't peel off if you make a mistake. Easy to teach, charts do all of the work on telling you power and feedrate.
In researching this these are popular models that can do steel and aluminum, there are other models that can be found from other brands, but welders appear to be one of those tools you just buy the best you can or you regret it, and we are learning already cheap tools break under heavy use and as a group we use them constantly often in a manner not covered by warranty. Lincoln and Miller are the top of US welder manufacturers. The Miller 180 and Lincoln 180 are compared as similar units on most forums I ran across. There is also the Hobart 187 but it does not do aluminum.
Lincoln SP 180 vs Millermatic 180 vs ?Something else that is a wire welder with the option of doing aluminum??I am leaning towards the Lincoln 180 it is the most versatile, cheapest and will do everything that multiple people have asked about.
it is replacement for the Lincoln 175+ which is still an awesome welder but technology improves and things get easier.
The estimate prices does not include the cost of a tank rental and cost to run new plug or build an extension cable or a cart
prices from http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com in indiana; probably cheaper from welders supply in louisville
Lincoln 180
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/literature/E740.pdf
SKU
Description
Price
80168 LINCOLN SP 180T MIG WELDER PKG K2689-1 $716.00
4009
LINCOLN K2528-1 FLUX CORE KIT FOR POWER MIG 180
$78.00
14001 LINCOLN MAGNUM 100SG SPOOLGUN K2532-1 NEW $198.00
free shipping
WELDING SUPPLIES FROM IOC ESTIMATED TOTAL $992.00
input
230/20A:
ouput
130A/20V
30% duty cycle
comes with regulators
3/16" 24 guage with standard gas/wire out of the box
1/2" with innersheild kit
can do some small aluminum but has a feed gun attachment that will do aluminum correctly
10FT welding leads
Millermatic 180 with ability to do aluminium is sold as a kit
12385469
MILLER DIVERSION 180 AC/DC TIG WELDER COMPLETE 907460 $1,720.00
free shipping
WELDING SUPPLIES FROM IOC ESTIMATED TOTAL $1720.00
max is 3/16" both steel and aluminum
regulators
remote foot control
input
115 or 230 V receptacles
output
115V: 10-125A AC/DC
230V: 10-180A AC/DC
20% duty cycle
12ft welding leads
James Copeland
Jan 25, 2012, 1:57:25 PM1/25/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
+ all the 1's!
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Pat McCarthy
Jan 25, 2012, 2:11:42 PM1/25/12
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Interesting…
I can push a puddle quite well on a steel seam with oxy/acetylene but I am hopeless when given anything electric….
‘course, give me a 2 pieces of aluminum and I will return 2 pieces, each with a largish hole on 1 edge… no matter WHAT kind of welder I have in my hands
Especially aggravating when I saw someone (Navy Shipyard) weld 2 aluminum cans together….
So, as long as you can teach us how to use this, I am all over the +1 button…..
+1
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Tim Miller
Jan 25, 2012, 2:14:05 PM1/25/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
This isn't a funds request yet but a search for information hopefully to uncover something I missed
James Copeland
Jan 25, 2012, 2:27:24 PM1/25/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
Tim I had someone suggest the Hobart 190 as well. It seems to be somewhat in the price range. I know Hobart is now kind of the non-pro line from Miller but may be worth a look too. I didn't line/up/compare the duty cycles yet.. so it may be apples/oranges.
Tim Miller
Jan 25, 2012, 2:45:14 PM1/25/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
Definitely a comparable welder that can do what we need
Patrick Joyce
Jan 25, 2012, 7:13:16 PM1/25/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
I've welded for a few years as a career, and I wouldn't worry about
duty cycle for the type of welding we'd probably need. Duty cycle
refers to how long the welder will be actually used in a 10 minute
period before it has to cool down. 20% is fine, chances are that you
will never have the trigger pulled for 2 minutes straight at any time
with anything we're likely to build, most welds are a few seconds at a
time. Most of your time will be spent setting up for a weld
(aligning, clamping, etc), not actually welding. A high duty cycle is
generally needed if you are welding something very large or are on a
production line. I've never hit the duty cycle of my home welder
(20%). Any of those, Miller, Hobart or Lincoln would be fine for the
space.
I have a Lincoln 175HD - the model before they went to the 180, and on
it, you just need an aluminum feed kit (about $70) to weld AL, I'm not
sure if the 180 has the the same option, but I'll look it up. If
there's an imminent need for welding, I can bring it down to LVL1. It
can live there for a while, but I will need to take it occasionally
for extended periods of time, as long as I know when someone needs it,
it shouldn't be a problem. It requires 220VAC (as do all the MIG
welders over 100 amps), is that available there? I currently have a 50
foot extension cord that plugs into a dryer outlet. I also have a
smaller 100 amp welder that runs off 110VAC that I have loaned to
someone, I'll see if I can get it back and will put it on extended
loan to the space. I'd reserve the right to borrow it back in case I
have a project where 220V isn't available. I may be able to get some
gas bottles as well, they're currently setup for compressed air, if
anyone knows about certifications or if they need to be converted, let
me know what I'd need to do. If the bottles work, they would be a
donation.
I can also teach welding, if anyone is interested, both MIG and stick.
Stick is a lot harder, but can do much thicker metals and the
equipment is much cheaper.
A small correction, welding is not like a metal glue gun, using a MIG
like one will result in extremely weak welds. You need to melt into
both pieces of metal that you're welding together to make one
continuous piece. I'll be happy to explain to anyone that wants to
know more.
duty cycle for the type of welding we'd probably need. Duty cycle
refers to how long the welder will be actually used in a 10 minute
period before it has to cool down. 20% is fine, chances are that you
will never have the trigger pulled for 2 minutes straight at any time
with anything we're likely to build, most welds are a few seconds at a
time. Most of your time will be spent setting up for a weld
(aligning, clamping, etc), not actually welding. A high duty cycle is
generally needed if you are welding something very large or are on a
production line. I've never hit the duty cycle of my home welder
(20%). Any of those, Miller, Hobart or Lincoln would be fine for the
space.
I have a Lincoln 175HD - the model before they went to the 180, and on
it, you just need an aluminum feed kit (about $70) to weld AL, I'm not
sure if the 180 has the the same option, but I'll look it up. If
there's an imminent need for welding, I can bring it down to LVL1. It
can live there for a while, but I will need to take it occasionally
for extended periods of time, as long as I know when someone needs it,
it shouldn't be a problem. It requires 220VAC (as do all the MIG
welders over 100 amps), is that available there? I currently have a 50
foot extension cord that plugs into a dryer outlet. I also have a
smaller 100 amp welder that runs off 110VAC that I have loaned to
someone, I'll see if I can get it back and will put it on extended
loan to the space. I'd reserve the right to borrow it back in case I
have a project where 220V isn't available. I may be able to get some
gas bottles as well, they're currently setup for compressed air, if
anyone knows about certifications or if they need to be converted, let
me know what I'd need to do. If the bottles work, they would be a
donation.
I can also teach welding, if anyone is interested, both MIG and stick.
Stick is a lot harder, but can do much thicker metals and the
equipment is much cheaper.
A small correction, welding is not like a metal glue gun, using a MIG
like one will result in extremely weak welds. You need to melt into
both pieces of metal that you're welding together to make one
continuous piece. I'll be happy to explain to anyone that wants to
know more.
Joshua Wilcox
Jan 26, 2012, 12:39:35 PM1/26/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
I would like to refresher in welding.. It might even be worth running a workshop if you have the time.
Everseeker
Jan 26, 2012, 1:35:26 PM1/26/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
Me too!
Been a Long time, but I am quite interested
Randy C.
Jan 26, 2012, 3:01:04 PM1/26/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
Wouldn't mind going to a welding workshop either if it started at
ground zero and went up from there.
ground zero and went up from there.
Lockadoc
Jan 25, 2012, 7:24:48 PM1/25/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
I have used the feed gun it makes a big difference on final outcome , only problem is it is bigger than the regular nozzle which makes tight spaces a problem . But only switched it out for the standard unit about 5% of the time used.
Just had to change the wire and gas to go from steel/iron to aluminum
Just had to change the wire and gas to go from steel/iron to aluminum
Bill S
Sent from my iPhoneMarc Verdi
Jan 26, 2012, 6:02:20 PM1/26/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
Guys, I have a 250AMP pulsed TIG welder and 60AMP plasma cutter that
is arriving tomorrow.... and I plan on letting it "live" down at the
Space along with a heavy-duty welding table.
The only downside of this rig is that we barely have enough power in
that building to crank it. For non-ferrous thats 1/4" or thinner, we
should be ok. But cranking this thing up and doing fillet's on 1/2"
aluminum will probably cause the panel to gasp and puke (42A starting
at max output, 1-ph). Same for the plasma torch, keep it under 40AMP
cutting power and we should be ok....
Caveats for usage will be:
1) The space covers some or all of the argon refills (I own the
bottle).
2) you either provide (or buy from me) the tungstens and filler rods.
2) you know what your doing (and can prove it) or...
3) I will train you and that requires a proper sacrifice to the beer
deities.
On Jan 25, 7:24 pm, Lockadoc <locka...@aol.com> wrote:
> I have used the feed gun it makes a big difference on final outcome , only problem is it is bigger than the regular nozzle which makes tight spaces a problem . But only switched it out for the standard unit about 5% of the time used.
> Just had to change the wire and gas to go from steel/iron to aluminum
>
> Bill S
> Sent from my iPhone
>
is arriving tomorrow.... and I plan on letting it "live" down at the
Space along with a heavy-duty welding table.
The only downside of this rig is that we barely have enough power in
that building to crank it. For non-ferrous thats 1/4" or thinner, we
should be ok. But cranking this thing up and doing fillet's on 1/2"
aluminum will probably cause the panel to gasp and puke (42A starting
at max output, 1-ph). Same for the plasma torch, keep it under 40AMP
cutting power and we should be ok....
Caveats for usage will be:
1) The space covers some or all of the argon refills (I own the
bottle).
2) you either provide (or buy from me) the tungstens and filler rods.
2) you know what your doing (and can prove it) or...
3) I will train you and that requires a proper sacrifice to the beer
deities.
On Jan 25, 7:24 pm, Lockadoc <locka...@aol.com> wrote:
> I have used the feed gun it makes a big difference on final outcome , only problem is it is bigger than the regular nozzle which makes tight spaces a problem . But only switched it out for the standard unit about 5% of the time used.
> Just had to change the wire and gas to go from steel/iron to aluminum
>
> Bill S
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Tim Miller <timmillert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Disclaimer stick/arc welders are great, and technically it is possible to weld with oxy/acetylene. But if you are not trained and experienced in using them and the machines, those methods honestly just suck. If you just want to get something welded and move on they can be a time sink. I know I am not experienced enough in any of them to make a reliable weld that doesn't look like I vomited metal all over the place. I don't know many who are and able to be at the space all the time to teach others.
>
> > But just about anyone can use a wire fed MIG it is almost like using a hot glue gun except its metal and normally doesn't peel off if you make a mistake. Easy to teach, charts do all of the work on telling you power and feedrate.
>
> > In researching this these are popular models that can do steel and aluminum, there are other models that can be found from other brands, but welders appear to be one of those tools you just buy the best you can or you regret it, and we are learning already cheap tools break under heavy use and as a group we use them constantly often in a manner not covered by warranty. Lincoln and Miller are the top of US welder manufacturers. The Miller 180 and Lincoln 180 are compared as similar units on most forums I ran across. There is also the Hobart 187 but it does not do aluminum.
> > Lincoln SP 180 vs Millermatic 180 vs ?Something else that is a wire welder with the option of doing aluminum??
>
> > I am leaning towards the Lincoln 180 it is the most versatile, cheapest and will do everything that multiple people have asked about.
> > it is replacement for the Lincoln 175+ which is still an awesome welder but technology improves and things get easier.
>
> > The estimate prices does not include the cost of a tank rental and cost to run new plug or build an extension cable or a cart
> > prices fromhttp://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.comin indiana; probably cheaper from welders supply in louisville
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Disclaimer stick/arc welders are great, and technically it is possible to weld with oxy/acetylene. But if you are not trained and experienced in using them and the machines, those methods honestly just suck. If you just want to get something welded and move on they can be a time sink. I know I am not experienced enough in any of them to make a reliable weld that doesn't look like I vomited metal all over the place. I don't know many who are and able to be at the space all the time to teach others.
>
> > But just about anyone can use a wire fed MIG it is almost like using a hot glue gun except its metal and normally doesn't peel off if you make a mistake. Easy to teach, charts do all of the work on telling you power and feedrate.
>
> > In researching this these are popular models that can do steel and aluminum, there are other models that can be found from other brands, but welders appear to be one of those tools you just buy the best you can or you regret it, and we are learning already cheap tools break under heavy use and as a group we use them constantly often in a manner not covered by warranty. Lincoln and Miller are the top of US welder manufacturers. The Miller 180 and Lincoln 180 are compared as similar units on most forums I ran across. There is also the Hobart 187 but it does not do aluminum.
> > Lincoln SP 180 vs Millermatic 180 vs ?Something else that is a wire welder with the option of doing aluminum??
>
> > I am leaning towards the Lincoln 180 it is the most versatile, cheapest and will do everything that multiple people have asked about.
> > it is replacement for the Lincoln 175+ which is still an awesome welder but technology improves and things get easier.
>
> > The estimate prices does not include the cost of a tank rental and cost to run new plug or build an extension cable or a cart
Marc Verdi
Jan 26, 2012, 6:04:43 PM1/26/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
BTW, TIG is superior to all other processes.... unless you are looking
at deposition rate. Which I don't think is a requirement for most
applications we would encounter.
> > > prices fromhttp://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.cominindiana; probably cheaper from welders supply in louisville
at deposition rate. Which I don't think is a requirement for most
applications we would encounter.
Pat McCarthy
Jan 26, 2012, 6:06:50 PM1/26/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
Guinness's or something weaker?
3) I will train you and that requires a proper sacrifice to the beer
deities.
Jonathan Clark
Jan 26, 2012, 6:17:39 PM1/26/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
On a related note, I'm very interested in knowing exactly what the regulations regarding types of welding or plasma cutting that could be performed in the "Un-dead" area, or does ALL welding need to take place outside and if so, is there anything we can do to make it possible to use this equipment in the Un-Dead zone. I have recently had some of my first experiences with welding and would LOVE to continue practicing and making with metal but it's a bit of a hassel to drag the welder out into the cold right now.
Also if we can't weld at all inside what good is a large scale welder or plasma cutter going to do us? Don't get me wrong, Marc's offer sounds awesome and I want us to have this equipment, but I've just been told that welding inside is not possible so I'm not sure how we would make use of the equipment. Any thoughts?
Jonathan Clark
jdc...@gmail.com
Raj
Jan 26, 2012, 6:39:37 PM1/26/12
to lv...@googlegroups.com
Thanks, Marc! That's very generous of you to let us use your equipment. If you have the time, I know that I and many others would *love* to attend a intro to welding workshop. Miller welding has some great resources at http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/ but there's nothing like a hands-on workshop to really cement work technique. I think a cash plus beer workshop fee would be a first! ;-P
From: Marc Verdi <mve...@gmail.com>
To: LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace <lv...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: {LVL1} Want input on MIG wire welder - aluminum capable
> > lvl1+unsub...@googlegroups.com
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Marc Verdi
Jan 26, 2012, 6:45:06 PM1/26/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
You could weld in the dead zone or even upstairs (TIG does throw
sparks like other processes). Welding throws off fumes that vary from
sorta-bad to bad (health risks). The best thing is to have a hood to
vent welding gases to the outside, no matter what you are welding.
On Jan 26, 6:17 pm, Jonathan Clark <jdc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On a related note, I'm very interested in knowing exactly what the
> regulations regarding types of welding or plasma cutting that could be
> performed in the "Un-dead" area, or does ALL welding need to take place
> outside and if so, is there anything we can do to make it possible to use
> this equipment in the Un-Dead zone. I have recently had some of my first
> experiences with welding and would LOVE to continue practicing and making
> with metal but it's a bit of a hassel to drag the welder out into the cold
> right now.
>
> Also if we can't weld at all inside what good is a large scale welder or
> plasma cutter going to do us? Don't get me wrong, Marc's offer sounds
> awesome and I want us to have this equipment, but I've just been told that
> welding inside is not possible so I'm not sure how we would make use of the
> equipment. Any thoughts?
>
> Jonathan Clark
> jdc...@gmail.com
sparks like other processes). Welding throws off fumes that vary from
sorta-bad to bad (health risks). The best thing is to have a hood to
vent welding gases to the outside, no matter what you are welding.
On Jan 26, 6:17 pm, Jonathan Clark <jdc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On a related note, I'm very interested in knowing exactly what the
> regulations regarding types of welding or plasma cutting that could be
> performed in the "Un-dead" area, or does ALL welding need to take place
> outside and if so, is there anything we can do to make it possible to use
> this equipment in the Un-Dead zone. I have recently had some of my first
> experiences with welding and would LOVE to continue practicing and making
> with metal but it's a bit of a hassel to drag the welder out into the cold
> right now.
>
> Also if we can't weld at all inside what good is a large scale welder or
> plasma cutter going to do us? Don't get me wrong, Marc's offer sounds
> awesome and I want us to have this equipment, but I've just been told that
> welding inside is not possible so I'm not sure how we would make use of the
> equipment. Any thoughts?
>
> Jonathan Clark
> jdc...@gmail.com
Patrick Joyce
Jan 27, 2012, 5:28:30 PM1/27/12
to LVL1 - Louisville's Hackerspace
I'm new here, but I haven't seen any area inside that would really be
safe for welding as-is. An area could be setup downstairs, but
anything flamable would have to be removed (pretty easy) or blocked
off (like the ceiling), and fumes would need to be vented. Non-
flamable walls surrounding it would be a good idea, they don't have to
be permanent structures, sparks can travel a long way. Without walls,
you'd want about 35 feet of clearance on each side. Setting up the
vent would probably be the hardest thing, I think. I haven't really
looked through the whole undead area, though, so maybe there is a good
space I missed.
This is just my gut feeling, as I'm not a fire inspector, but a fire
inspection now might get a list of things (if there are any) to be
fixed to be up to code and a follow up visit to check that they were
fixed. I think a welding area setup in the basement as it is now with
an wooden floor above it might up the ante to "Get out. Now." Again,
just my opinion.
I can teach MIG and stick welding, but I've never used a TIG, so I
would like to learn that as well.
I would set up a MIG workshop, but it would be dependent on weather
right now, and Marc's TIG welding would probably be more in demand, as
aluminum would probably be the material of choice for projects as
opposed to steel. If there's still interest, I'll do it.
I am picking up my 110V MIG this weekend to bring to the space. It's
an older Clarke, but it works fine. The only rule I'd have is that you
need to be checked out by me, Marc, or another welder (if there are
any) before using it. I don't have a bottle for it at this time, and
I'll donate a small roll of flux-core wire, but bottles may be
forthcoming depending on certificates/re-certification, etc.
Consumables (wire, tips, gas) beyond what I bring will need to be
provided. I have an old Harbor Freight hood with a exploded battery
that I will donate if someone wants to fix it.
Does the building have 220V anywhere?
safe for welding as-is. An area could be setup downstairs, but
anything flamable would have to be removed (pretty easy) or blocked
off (like the ceiling), and fumes would need to be vented. Non-
flamable walls surrounding it would be a good idea, they don't have to
be permanent structures, sparks can travel a long way. Without walls,
you'd want about 35 feet of clearance on each side. Setting up the
vent would probably be the hardest thing, I think. I haven't really
looked through the whole undead area, though, so maybe there is a good
space I missed.
This is just my gut feeling, as I'm not a fire inspector, but a fire
inspection now might get a list of things (if there are any) to be
fixed to be up to code and a follow up visit to check that they were
fixed. I think a welding area setup in the basement as it is now with
an wooden floor above it might up the ante to "Get out. Now." Again,
just my opinion.
I can teach MIG and stick welding, but I've never used a TIG, so I
would like to learn that as well.
I would set up a MIG workshop, but it would be dependent on weather
right now, and Marc's TIG welding would probably be more in demand, as
aluminum would probably be the material of choice for projects as
opposed to steel. If there's still interest, I'll do it.
I am picking up my 110V MIG this weekend to bring to the space. It's
an older Clarke, but it works fine. The only rule I'd have is that you
need to be checked out by me, Marc, or another welder (if there are
any) before using it. I don't have a bottle for it at this time, and
I'll donate a small roll of flux-core wire, but bottles may be
forthcoming depending on certificates/re-certification, etc.
Consumables (wire, tips, gas) beyond what I bring will need to be
provided. I have an old Harbor Freight hood with a exploded battery
that I will donate if someone wants to fix it.
Does the building have 220V anywhere?
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