Eleven Club Rear hubs
roderick...@gmail.com
at getting some TR6 splined hubs re-indexed but am wondering if the
offset would be correct.
Thanks,
Rod
Stewart Smith
I use wining circle double bearing hubs with splined adapters and ARP studs.
Works well, no change in offset.
Stewart
377
--------------------------------------------------
From: <roderick...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:39 AM
To: "Lotus History" <Lotus-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Eleven Club Rear hubs
Roderick McLellan
Stewart Smith
John Watson
Hi,
Here in the UK I got the spline adaptors that I use on my Series One Lotus Seven from Motor Wheel Services (MWS International) who I believe have an outlet stateside as well. MWS can drill the adaptors (within reason) to your required PCDs or not drill them at all, as you wish. However I would issue a warning about using PCDs smaller than those of the car the wheels were meant for. The problem is that the stud ends and nuts become too near the cone of the adaptor and the wheel can ride on them. This unsatisfactory situation can of course be cured by machining but metal can be short with the counter sinking and counter boring that maybe required. I tell you this as you should be aware.
As an aside, I have in my archive, pictures of the adaptors from a late 1958 Series One Seven which according to factory records was supplied new with wire wheels. The photographs show different PCDs front and rear (4.25” front and 4” rear) with the rear adaptor flange being cut square and re-drilled near the corners. It is quite obvious what has been done, even after some 50 years, as the ‘halved’ holes can clearly be seen on the ‘new’ square edges.
You may also be interested to know that the wire wheels that I use are the old Dunlop pattern which MWS now have made in India. These wheels which I believe the Lotus Eleven and Type 14 Elite also use are the MGA type 15” diameter x 4J x 48 spoke laced on the outside of the rim only. When I restored my car, in the absence of a supply of serviceable 15” x 4J Turner steel wheels (made by Rubery Owen) I bought wheels, spline adaptors, two eared spinners and nuts from MWS here in the UK. Having said this, at the Lotus Show at Donington last week-end there was a Series One Eleven on the HLR stand with a set of really beautiful Borani items! Oh the money, oh the credit crunch, oh the mess we’re in L
JWW
Roderick McLellan
Roger Sieling
Roger
From: j...@onetel.com
Roderick McLellan
Roderick McLellan
John Watson
MGA Wire Wheels XW450S
42mm Spline X 6 inch B/Plate RS426L and RS426R
42mm Cap 2-Eared Spinner KC4282OL and KC4282OR
3/8 UNF Nuts RN38
7/16 UNF Nuts RN716
Website www.mwsint.com
Email in...@mwsint.com
Regards, JWW
-original message-
Subject: Re: Eleven Club Rear hubs
Date: 24/04/2009 11:08 pm
I "borrowed" a used set of the Triumph TR3/4/5/6 etc hubs from work and very
crudely re-indexed them with a 4" PCD, but noticed that the studs and wheel
nuts just about foul the taper where the wheel seats, plus the tires just
touch the trailing arms (165SR15 sized). I had thought about a spacer
between the hub and the adapter but would prefer not to use a spacer.
John, any idea what the part number was for the adapters from MWS?
> *To:* Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2009 5:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Eleven Club Rear hubs
> Hello Rod,
>
> I have used Moss for a TR3. The last ones I purchased through Mike
> Brotherwood and they are thicker material than the Moss "US" ones that my
> series 1 seven used. They do sell them without stud holes so one can drill
> them to fit our cars.
>
> Stewart
>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2009 7:45 AM
> *To:* Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Eleven Club Rear hubs
John Watson
Lyndsay Wood
Hello All,
Just bought a new steering rack, extensions and track rod ends, plus mount blocks for a serie 2 11, for 380 BP, plus some 140 BP shipping to South Africa, from Mike Brotherwood.
On the issue of Mini Minor racks, both L/h and R/h are still freely available, including 'quick racks' if required.
On discussing wire wheels, what adapters are used for Wobbly Web's, and are both adapters and wheels available still?
WarmRegards
Lyndsay
--- On Sat, 25/4/09, John Watson <j...@onetel.com> wrote:
George Albaugh
but wheels are still available from Lee Chapman: http://
www.leechapmanracing.com/wheel.htm
Best regards,
George Albaugh
Maryland USA
Stewart Smith
Roger Sieling
There are no adapters for wobbley wheels on Ser 2 LeMans. The fronts originally had the wheel bearing races pressed directly into the wheel and the brake disc bolts to the inside of the wheel. At the rear, the wheels bolt directly to the hub at each side of the deDion axles. Wobbleys were never made to go onto a Club Eleven or a Ser 1.
Roger 4DTN
Lyndsay Wood
Hello Roger, et al,
Interesting! You say 'orriginally', does this imply there was/is a latter method of fitting?
I must say the very concept of the wobbley web I find astounding, so very typically 'simplicate and add lightness', even to the point of becoming very complicated!
But thanx Guys for a superb site that allows even the fairer sex to be able to understand the technicalities and become immersed in the legend of these marvelous cars, and the Man. Ta!!!
WarmGratefulRegards
Lyndsay
--- On Sat, 25/4/09, Roger Sieling <sar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Roger Sieling <sar...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Eleven Club Rear hubs
> To: "Lotus History" <lotus-...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, 25 April, 2009, 11:54 PM
>
>
>
> #yiv1554768834 .hmmessage P
> {
> margin:0px;padding:0px;}
> #yiv1554768834 {
> font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Roger Sieling
Later cars such as the Lotus 18 used similar 15" wobblies that bolted to hubs, and used the same Triumph based suspension uprights as the Eleven Ser 2, 12, 16 and and Lotus 15 had used. Then there were all the Lotus 17s that had to be "upgraded" from front struts. So, the Lotus 18 hubs were copied and the Eleven wheels modified.They needed to be modified because the wheel protruds toward the inside into the center of the wheel for the inner wheel bearing. Once modified, you can't go back because there is no place for the inner bearing and the pilot diameter for the brake disc is gone.
Since I have such complete history on 4DTN, including home 8mm movies of Keith racing it in 1958, I choose to keep it original and I have 5 original front wobblies with the bearing races in the wheel. I have to have one of the few if not the only Eleven in Noth American that has not been so modified. It is a pain to change wheels, as the wheel bearings have to come out and and the bolts holding the disc have to each be turned just right to mate to the diameter on the inside of the wheel, but is still works and the unsprung weight is still just as low as Chapman designed it to be.
Kind regards,
Roger Sieling
> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:40:50 +0000
> From: lyn_l...@yahoo.co.uk
> Subject: RE: Eleven Club Rear hubs
Peter Yeomans
Good morning Roger- nice to see how active you are with your site contributions-and hope you are well-I noticed on the web site you linked (http://www.leechapmanracing.com/index.htm) a picture (with part ref # X023J6008Z appearing when I run my mouse over it) under the Lotus 22 section of a front disk for a Lotus 22- do you know if this will fit a Series 1 Eleven?
Regards Peter Yeomans
Roger Sieling
I learned many years ago, that the rear discs used on Lotus 22-23 are the same as those used on the front of the Eleven Ser 2. I bought the first replacements for my Eleven from Peter Denty, but all other replacements have come from a US source as Lotus 22-23 rear discs. I don't think the front 22/23 discs fit any Eleven applications. 22/23 front discs have 4 bolt attachment on a 3-3/4" PCD. 22/23 rear discs are 6 bolt mounting and the mounting flange is very thin, about an 1/8" (3mm) thick. The mounting circle is also very close to the pilot diameter hole at the disc's center, leaving them fairly weak. After they crack on the front of the Eleven, center hole to a bolt hole, they get replaced and the old ones go into my spares box for the 20/22, which is a more robust application. I've never broken one on that car.
I think a Ser 1 Eleven also uses 6 bolt discs at the front and you may find the rear 22 ones are compatible for you too. Check w/ Bruce Mansell. I'll bet he has a source. I have a sketch of the Eleven discs I made over 20 years ago that I could send to you if I could figure out how to make my scanner work.
Right now, I'm trying to get a new computer up and running in my den. It's hard to find time, now that Spring has sprung and all the things we've put off all winter have bubbled to the top. This was our first winter at home together for over 40 years, now that we are both retired and a cold, long one it was.
Roger
From: ye...@allegro.com.au
To: Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Eleven Club Rear hubs
Good morning Roger- nice to see how active you are with your site contributions-and hope you are well-I noticed on the web site you linked (http://www.leechapmanracing.com/index.htm) a picture (with part ref # X023J6008Z appearing when I run my mouse over it) under the Lotus 22 section of a front disk for a Lotus 22- do you know if this will fit a Series 1 Eleven?
Regards Peter Yeomans
Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out.
Peter Yeomans
Thanks Roger-thanks for the info- my disks are 4 bolt and unfortunately steel which apart from being bloody noisy don’t stop anywhere as well as cast iron- Vic would know the exact figures but different friction coefficients etc –one of Bruce Mansell’s mates had some cast up a few years back for the Elites and I should have grabbed a set then before they were drilled (6 holes for Elites which someone said were the same as the S1 Eleven and could be 4 hole machined for my Eleven ) too bloody dear to do a one off casting now- I know you can get them from Mike Brotherwood but costs are an issue in these times- which means my wife mentions something about global financial something or other whenever I look at a new part for the car- too much TV for her I say!--retirement is great to put off (oops DO) all those things that my wife finds a need to nag me about-we travel to all our events in our motor home and have just come back from running at Mt Panorama which you would probably see on your cable tv when the V8 Supercars run there in October each year- great circuit and very intimidating-have attached as hot in the Essess as you start the downhill run-circuit is around 6k in length –if it doesn’t come through OK I will send separately.
Stay well
Peter
Vic Thomas
Vic Thomas
Peter Yeomans
Morning Viv,
How is the weather with you today-clear blue skies here and around 18C as the day starts- something similar in England at present I trust?????
I will place a Xmas order with Shimbo and do everything she tells me (well almost!) but I don’t think she would agree- I will be interested to see the disk sketch that Roger has at some stage-on another matter I forgot to mention some time back in this chat room that I fixed the problem with locking brakes- found that some of the rivets on my pads were a bit loose so changed (same brand) but to higher co efficient type and have not had problem since-I use carbon metallic from a USA firm that Stan Anderes put me onto several years back.
If you still have a copy of that letter from Walter Kronkite that he sent to me regarding his car and how it was the first time a remote TV broadcast was done from a car I would appreciate it- I can’t find the original.
I gave you a copy when you stayed with us several years back.
Regards to Mary
Peter
Ps there is a fellow running around with another Eleven here that he claims is the Whitmore car-he has had it for many years and has a Holden motor fitted to it-so that makes 3 people who claim ownership I guess-he doesn’t run the car with any Cams events so I haven’t been able to look at it and take some pictures. There was a bit of a rumour once that was another chassis floating around that Whitmore had.
Peter
From: Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Lotus-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 6:20 AM
To: Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Eleven Club Rear hubs
Dear Peter
Roger Sieling
Have you found history on your car that was unknown previously. Isn't your car the one George Barton owned in 1969? Does George know of this history? Send I have a photo of George's car that I need to scan, same problem with my computer. Had I sent it to you before?
Peter Yeomans
Hi again Roger,
And Vic if you are reading this, sorry for misspell of your name as VIV in previous email-one of the fellows who sails with me on my boat is named Viv and hence the slip up.
No I haven’t been able to find out anything really about #262 and realistically don’t know how to trace in USA- I corresponded with George a long time back after you referred me to him – interestingly when I spoke with him he remembered that it had an unusual steering wheel which Vic took a picture of when he stayed with us-I phoned the wife of the fellow he bought the car HESS as per below) from but she and her sons had no previous knowledge as her husband had died many years back – George told me he sold the car to Jeff Lance who sold it to the family I purchased it from. This is an extract from Georges email and if any fellow Eleven lover knows of prior history I would appreciate any lead you may have. It would seem that prior to 1968 the car may have resided in the Indiana area.
“I owned the Lotus shortly in 69-70. I was fresh out of the
army working as a sales man for the DoAll Band Saw company on 16th street in
Indianapolis Indiana. George Bignotti's Indy race car shop was across the
street and the Indy 500 track was about a mile away. Behind our location
was a copy-printer sales company called Hess Duplicating. One day I saw a
Lola sports racer sitting there being tuned and I wandered over. I met
Harvey & told him I wanted to get into racing. He had just won his class in
the Road Race of Champions (SCCA runoffs) in a NSU TTS and tried to sell it
to me. I went by his house to see it and there was this light yellow
Eleven. I didn’t care about the NSU and fell in love with the Lotus. I
made arrangements to buy it and even got a loan from the Indiana National
Bank for $1200, yes that is correct 12 hundred dollars, to buy it”
I look forward to you sending me the scanned picture in due course
Regards Peter
Ps what does send underlined in your email mean- I clicked it but my PC would not download the reference matter
Roger Sieling
The send "button" means don't buy a computer with Vista operating system. I'm writing this on Sally's Sony laptop which runs on vista. I hate it. What happened is that I started to SEND the message yesterday, then remembered something I wanted to add and slid the mouse off the send button. Unknown to me, it lodged a copy of it in the body of the message.
I thought about pulling this post off list, since it is a bit personal in nature, but I thought Vic and others who have active Eleven rosters might want to see it.
I met the family you bought the car from at the Lotus Ltd LOG that celebrated Lotus Elevens, must have been 1991(can you believe, almost 20 years ago). Their uncle had owned the car back in the 70s until then, and IIRC, had recently died. At that time, they were thinking of restoring it in his honor. I looked back in my records and I have a note from a conversation with George that he had bought it from Harvey Hess, that it then went to the Mack Truck dealer in Gary Indiana, then to Paul Trulove, address unknown, but probably in the Chicago area, since Jeffrey Lance, the next owner, lived at home with his father Harold in West Chicago. I also met Harold Lance and both his sons at that LOG. I still see Clark Lance at vintage races and write to him about various Lotus issues. My father accompanied me on that trip and I think he enjoyed talking to Harold, who was more his age.
John Donohoe
Roger Sieling
Since then, the family have owned a few formula cars, Elans and I think a Nine. Probably a Seven in there too.
Roger
From: jo...@ciesaonline.com
Peter Yeomans
Morning again Roger
Understand the Vista issue-I still cant scan with mine- I have it on my PC but Linux on my lap top-the info you provided is similar to information I have as well-the Lance family sent me a couple of shots of the car when Jeff had it- if anyone knows of the car prior to Hess I would appreciate same- the car was yellow
Regards Peter
