Tie Rods for Eleven Series I

[Glenn Stephens]

My steering tie rods are worn and I would like to replace them. I
expect that they are the same as some other British cars out there.
Anyone know where to source them?

[Vic Thomas]

Dear Glen
If you mean the ball joints on the ends of the rods , then Mike Brotherwood
has these
on the shelf. The rods you make from tubing.
Note that S1 and S2 Elevens are different.
Regards
VFT

[roger Sieling]

So Vic, You sorta anwered Glen's requeste, by giving him a source for the ends, but not necessarily what vehicle they were from. There are a number of individuals and companies on this side of the pond who are buying up NOS parts inventories from out of business firms, then reselling what they figure out fits something there is a demand for. Sometimes the sellers can't find a market for some of the more obscure pieces, and over here, there are fewer obscure vehicles, as we didn't have the appetite for some of the plebian salons that were common in the home market. So, knowing that the rod ends might be from a "1952 Saxony Sprint" would be of great value. The Orphan Auto Parts man might have them in stock and no one interested in their purchase. Seems like a good souce to purchase from to me.

Oh, and I'd like to know what the S2 ones came from too, if you can help. Orphan might have them too.

Kind regards,

Roger

[Gearhead]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I meant tie rod ends or ball joints.
I was hoping for a local supply in the US but Mr. Brotherwood is
always a good source.
If anyone else has a suggestion, please post.

These tie rod ends look a bit like the ones from the very early XK 120
Jags. Could it be?

On Mar 1, 10:07 pm, roger Sieling <rlsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So Vic, You sorta anwered Glen's requeste, by giving him a source for the
> ends, but not necessarily what vehicle they were from. There are a number of
> individuals and companies on this side of the pond who are buying up NOS
> parts inventories from out of business firms, then reselling what they
> figure out fits something there is a demand for. Sometimes the sellers can't
> find a market for some of the more obscure pieces, and over here, there are
> fewer obscure vehicles, as we didn't have the appetite for some of the
> plebian salons that were common in the home market. So, knowing that the rod
> ends might be from a "1952 Saxony Sprint" would be of great value. The
> Orphan Auto Parts man might have them in stock and no one interested in
> their purchase. Seems like a good souce to purchase from to me.
>
> Oh, and I'd like to know what the S2 ones came from too, if you can help.
> Orphan might have them too.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Roger
>

[Gearhead]

TR2 tie rod ends look to be similar as well.

[Vic Thomas]

Dear Roger

The S1 steering ball joints are Ford, probably from

a Poplar Saloon. I found a batch in a Fordson Tractor

dealer a few years ago, manufactured by an "after

market" firm.

The S2 are Triumph, but the taper is not common.

In England the normal practice is to present

a parts dealer with a sample. Often there is no

exact info as to which the cars the parts also

fit.

Put it another way, the joint is defined by the

taper and the thread size and type. No one

needs to ask the recent manufacturer to whom

they also sell the item.

Regards

VFT 

[Charles Helps]

I'd say that Vic is talking about the practice in a very small part of
East Anglia! Here in Somerset we like catalogues and the internet.
The Lotus Mk VI uses track rod ends from the Ford Popular. Lotus
split the Ford tie-rod as part of the swing axle conversion and
threaded the inner ends so that you have three right hand threads and
one left hand. If you go to the Small Ford Spares website
http://www.smallfordspares.co.uk/en/search.phtml and enter 3290 into
the search engine you get a page of possibly suitable ends. On the 6,
I would use three of the E93A-3290 with its 9/16" right hand male
thread and a YE-3290-E on the left hand side. The E93A designation
refers to the upright Popular saloon which superceded the Ford Model
Y. We don't actually use the eye on the left hand side but it makes
it easy to see in your parts box which way the thread goes. I'm
fairly certain that the Y type right hand TRE would also do the job
but the lubrication arrangement was pretty crude on the early parts
and if you can get a later one with a grease nipple then that would be
even better.

I wonder whether the Eleven S2 arangement is the same as the Seven
S1? Perhaps John Watson could help out here.

[roger Sieling]

I would imagine that the Eleven S2 has a high likelyhood of being the same as the Series 1 Seven. Most of the rest of the front suspension was. I have a long ago issued page (actually half page) that has comparisons of suspension springs, shocks and their settings for Eleven S1 and S2 AND Seven S1 and a 4th model, must have been a S2 Seven.

I would imagine this came from Vic, over 20 years ago.

Roger

[Lyndsay Wood]

Hello Roger, Charles Et Al,

That would be a rather informative document to have, would you mind sharing the information with us?

Would one of you perhaps have a schematic/drawing of the Serie 2 fuel tanks and radiator reservoir? I am essentially looking for the dimentions.

Many thanx
Lyndsay

--- On Mon, 6/4/09, roger Sieling <rlsi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Vic Thomas]

Dear Charles
First Part Answer
The XI S2 and the V11 S1 are
almost the same car, except for
body shape.
My own X1 LM S2 and Climax
deDion V11 share all parts except
chassis and body.
So the V11 front suspension [Triumph
based] is the same as the S2 Eleven.
No Ford bits I am afraid.

Regards
VFT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Helps" <charle...@btopenworld.com>
To: "Lotus History" <Lotus-...@googlegroups.com>

[John Watson]

Dear Victor,

I think that you can expect a good flogging from the Editor of "Historic
Lotus" for your use of the sacred 'V11' designation when referring to your
Lotus Seven Series One!

Of course the steering racks were Morris Minor on Elevens and early Series
One Sevens, but also early Triumph Herald racks (left hand drive placed
upside down) were used on many of the later (Cheshunt built) Series One
Sevens.

Regards,

JWW

[John Watson]

Jay Hall, who worked under John Standen, at Lotus, first at Hornsey and then
at Cheshunt, in the stores and later in the buying department (1958 to 1961)
tells the following story:-

TRACK ROD ENDS:
The Morris Minor track rod ends were discarded from the steering racks used
of the Lotus Seven Series One and Eleven and Standard 8/10 items took their
place which may have been modified to fit the rack.

GEAR LINKAGE JOINT:
The Lotus designed remote gear linkage for the 3-speed Ford 100E side valve
gearbox used an ex-MOD De Havilland part described as a 'Mosquito Bomb Door
Hinge (Uniballs)'. When the supply of these parts ran out the redundant BMC
Morris Minor track rod end ball joints were utilised from the large stock
that Lotus then had.

CONCLUSION:
Standard 8/10 or Triumph Herald track rod ends can be modified to fit Morris
Minor steering racks.
If you have an early 100E powered Lotus Seven and need to rebuild the remote
gear linkage, you should start looking for an old De Havilland Mosquito and
rob it of one of its bomb door hinges. Failing this a track rod end from a
Morris Minor rack can be adapted to do the job.

A good Easter to everyone.

[Christopher J Tchorznicki]

This would have been perfect on 1 April!
chris

[John Watson]

Except that it's factual!!

[John Watson]

Mike Ostrov wrote:-

(snip)
<<< You might experience some unpleasant steering, if you simply up end a
LHD rack and install it in a RHD car. No problem, as long as you remember,
when you wish to turn left, you must turn the steering wheel to the right.
At least this is the result in the Type 14, upon my testing. >>>


Thanks for your input, Mike.

Regards,

JWW

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher J Tchorznicki" <ch...@sevenselans.com>
To: <Lotus-...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 3:03 PM

[John Watson]

Morris Minor (MM) & Triumph Herald (TH) Steering Racks

To those who have heard all this before, please ignore. I apologise.

ESSENTIAL DIFFERENCES:
On a MM the steering arms are positioned behind the centre of the front
wheels.
On a TH the steering arms are positioned in front of the centre of the front
wheels.
On a Lotus Eleven and Series One Seven the steering arms are positioned as
for the MM behind the centre of the front wheels.

ON A LOTUS ELEVEN & SEVEN SERIES ONE
SO: with a rhd MM rack, turning the steering wheel to the right, the track
rod goes towards the left moving the front road wheels to the right - OK.

AND: with a rhd TH rack, turning the steering wheel to the right, the track
rod goes towards the right moving the front road wheels to the left -
interesting!!

BUT: using a lhd TH rack positioned upside down (inverted), turning the
steering wheel to the right produces the same effect as the rhd MM rack
above - again OK.

WORKING IT OUT ANOTHER WAY
A steering rack is basically a toothed rod (the rack) and a round toothed
cog (the pinion). Place the pinion above the rack and turn to the left and
the rack moves towards the right. However place the pinion under the rack
and turn to the left and the rack moves towards the left.

So place a lhd rack in a rhd car upside down (inverted) keeps the steering
wheel on the right of the car, but changes the pinion's position in relation
to the rack. Thus, as I wrote, both a rhd MM rack or a lhd TH rack placed
upside down (inverted) can be used in Elevens or Series One Sevens
correctly.

I hope that this is now a little clearer.

[Vic Thomas]

BUT a LHd MM rack cannot be used
on an Eleven, as the steering colunn will
foul the engine.
regards
VFT
ps has anyone ever seen a LHd MM ? !!

[John Watson]

Dear Victor,
Some MM history that might be of interest. They were definitely produced in
lhd form from June 1949 onwards, so presumably steering racks were/are
available as well. Enjoy . . .
Regards,

JWW.

<<< October 1948 First Minor rolls off production line
Car Number SMM501
Engine Type USHM2
June 1949 Car No.RHD#3389 LHD#6142: small, round twin rear lights replace
single rear lamp (mounted vertically in USA).
Car No.RHD#17580 LHD#7967: larger squared-off variety of rear lamps fitted.
September 1949 Improved draught and water sealing. Choke control altered
slightly. Seats given more forwards adjustment.
Late 1949 Front suspension tiebar mounting strengthened RHD#904 LHD#5600.
Rear suspension - front shackle renewable bush plates fitted, RHD#17840
LHD#8700.
Cellulose paint replaced by synthetic enamel RHD#12118 RHD LHD#5856.
All US market cars fitted with headlamps in wings.
October 1950 - on Four-door Series MM Minor introduced, also with
headlamps situated in wings.
Indicators fitted high in central door pillar instead of low down as on
two-door cars.
Some cars (two-door and four-door) fitted with leather front seats, Vyanide
being retained in the rear.
RHD#69832 LHD#71098 - front doors closed with straps instead of cord.
Four-door cars fitted with one-piece bumpers instead of earlier split type.
RHD#72985 RHD - passenger windscreen wiper fitted as standard.
January 1951 RHD#83390 LHD#81595 - all Minors built with headlamps
mounted in the wings with sidelamps placed where the headiamps used to be.
All wing mounted headlamps were 7" instead of former 5" units.
March 1951 A nickel shortage led to painted grille and hub caps being
fitted - RHD#91076 LHD#89726.
Hub caps only were restored to chrome plated finish six months later.
April 1951 Optional water pump fitted to engine, allowing use of heater.
Complete cost &poundRHD#83206 LDH#81502 LHD - all cars now fitted with
one-piece bumpers in place of earlier split type.
June 1951 - on RHD#100920 LHD#102836 - Tourer sidescreens of fixed type
and revised hood fitted.
Door-mounted ashtray discontinued on four-door at RHD#131460 LHD#126597 and
on two-door at RHD#124810 LHD#122788, replaced by fascia mounted ashtray.
RHD#139359 LHD#139514 - glove box emblem changed from chrome and enamel to
plastic.
Bootlid lock strengthened.
September 1951 RHD#114923 LHD#89910 - rubber bushed top suspension link
introduced to cure suspension 'clonk'. Later fitted as a modification to
most cars. At same time in 1952 a secondary steering rack damper was
introduced.
Late 1952 - on Series MM engine replaced by A-series engine, in export
four-door car at first.
Two-door saloon and Tourer still fitted with Morris 8 engine until 23
February 1953, when last Series MM Minor built.
August 1952 First OHV engine fitted in four-door saloon (sidevalve engine
continued in some), #160001.
January 1953 All models fitted with ohv engine, #180001.
October 1953 New page_textDe Luxe models introduced featuring heater,
leather seats, overriders and passenger sun visor. Two-door saloon #221842,
four-door saloon #221803, Convertible #221914.
January 1954 'A' type rear axle and standard swivel pin assembly
introduced #228267.
Wedge type fan belt at engine no. 72610.
Early 1954 Sprung-type semibucket seats replaced by more modern, flatter
far less comfortable front seats.
Also around this time and until late 1954, 10,000 cars were fitted with
separate rear reflectors as a stop-gap way of satisfying new rear reflector
regulations.
June 1954 Enginesteady cable fitted, 264013.
October 1954 Horizontal grill bars introduced.
Revised instrument and control panel.
Separate speedometer, fuel and oil pressure gauges replaced by single
separate instrument with open gloveboxes each side - two-door saloon
#291140, four-door saloon #290173, Convertible #291336, Traveller #289687.
Rubber-buffered tie-rod mounted between engine and bulkhead to act as engine
steady and to cut out clutch judder.
New larger rear light fitting incorporating reflector in lens cover fitted,
#293051.
August 1956 Coloured hoods fitted to Convertible, #433571.
During its production run, the Series II received few other changes but they
included:
- discontinuation of front wing beading
- hardboard replacing millboard door trim
- grease nipples added to handbrake cables
- shorter gear lever
- repositioned pedals
- different gearbox cover and carpets to give more foot room
Car #433571 on, Tourer given a coloured hood, mottled green for green cars,
mottled red for all others.
Seats became fixed-back for two-door cars.
October 1956 Series II discontinued.
Final chassis number #448714.
October 1956 Standard and De Luxe two- and four-door saloons, Convertible
and Traveller introduced, designated'Minor 1000'.
948cc engine fitted.
Single-piece and enlarged curved windscreen and larger rear window.
Dished steering wheel.
Horn and trafficator control on steering column.
Glovebox lids fitted.
Deeper rear wings.
Shorter geariever, and deeper gearbox cover.
'Minor 1000' motif on sides of bonnet, #448801.
New type of shorter handbrake fitted with end push-button instead of
side-mounted lever.
Gear-lever carried in aluminium remote-control extension.
Self-parking wipers, though still not of parallel movement type.
December 1956 New strengthened steering swivel pin assembly fitted,
#462458.
Early 1957 Plastic gear lever knob with rubber insert
Boot lid handle and lock strengthened
Car No. 463443 - on. New steering rack oil seal fitted.
March 1957 Fuel tank enlarged from 5 to 6.5 gallons, #487048 Saloon,
#485127 Traveller
Mud deflector plates made available for rear brake drums.
September 1957 Canvas hood on convertible replaced by plastic coated
material, #524944.
November 1957 Gearlever reset and lengthened. Traveller #552906
October 1958 Courtesy light switches fitted in front doors, #654750.
December 1958 Rear spring design changed from 7 x 1/4" leaves to 5 x 1/4"
leaves, #680464 Saloon and Tourer only.
February 1959 Early type dry paper element air cleaner, Saloon #698137,
Traveller #693918.
March 1959 Wider opening doors
Self-cancelling direction indicator switch fitted to steering column
Horn button moved to centre of steering wheel
Traveller #704254, four-door saloon #705224, two-door saloon #705622.
September 1959 Combined inlet and exhaust manifold.
Foot space between gearbox cover and clutch pedal increased.
PVC interior roof lining fitted instead of cloth.
Front passenger seat on two-door saloon and Traveller modified to give
better access to rear seats, #750470.
During 1960 HS type SU carburettor introduced, Engine No. 9M/U/H 353449.
January 1961 Morris Minor 1000000 produced as special edition of 349
cars.
Special features included Lilac colour, white upholstery with black piping,
'Minor 1000000' badging on sides of bonnet and on boot lid and special wheel
rim embellishers.
#1000000 - #1000349 (these car numbers designated out of sequence).
October 1961 Flashing direction indicators incorporated into front and
rear lamps.
Semaphore type direction indicators discontinued.
Glove compartment lid removed.
Windscreen washers fitted on De Luxe models.
Seatbelts anchorage points built into all models.
New range of colours and upholstery offered
Two-door saloon #925555, four-door saloon #925448, Convertible #947088,
Traveller #925679
April 1963 Fresh air heater introduced.
Air intake on radiator cowl.
Redesigned windscreen washer system, #1039564.
October 1963 Windscreen wiper blades lengthened and now work in tandem.
Zone-toughened windscreen introduced.
New design combined side/flasher lamps at front and rear.
Extra round amber flashing indicating light fitted to rear of Traveller.
New type air cleaner fitted to prevent carburettor icing in cold weather.
Nearside (front passenger) door lock fitted to two-door models.
Two-door saloon #1043218, four-door saloon #1043752, Convertible #1043271,
Traveller #1043226
October 1964 New design fascia panel.
Better trim and more comfortable seating.
Automatic boot lid support.
Glovebox on passenger side fitted with lid.
Combined ignition and starter switch.
Other switches modified to 'flick' type.
Swivel ashtrays under parcel shelf.
Crushable sun visors.
Plastic rimmed interior mirror.
Two-spoke safety dished steering wheel.
Fresh air heater performance improved.
Blocked oil filter warning light fitted.
Crackle finish heater fitted - still offered as optional.
Two-door saloon #1082280, four-door saloon #1082284, Convertible #1082717,
Traveller #1082537
October 1966 Sealed-beam headlamps fitted. Fuse in sidelamp circuit
introduced, #1159663.
October 1967 New type paper air cleaner element introduced, #1196653.
June 1969 Convertible discontinued. Final Car Number #1254328.
Late 1969 Oil filter switch ceased to be fitted. Amber warning lens
fitted but not used.
1970 During the last months of production some models were fitted with an
alternator instead of a dynamo.
November 1970 Saloon production discontinued. Final Car Numbers, two-door
saloon #1288377.
1971 During the last months of production some of the vehicles assembled
at the Morris Commercial Cars plant at Adderley Park, Birmingham were fitted
with steering column ignition locks, four-door saloon #1288299.
April 1971 Traveller production discontinued. Final Car Number #1294082.

[Christopher J Tchorznicki]

ps has anyone ever seen a LHd MM

Lots of them in the USA! Not doubt a bit rare in the UK.

[jentw...@aol.com]

I've seen a couple recently, a fellow who works with me has a woody wagon that he is restoring and it has kindled an interest.  Here's one:

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=morris+minor+for+sale&page=2&qsrc=0&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fclassiccars.com%2F16100.car

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[Roger Sieling]

I have a LHD MM steering rack, from when I stripped out a MM salon in 1968. I thought it would be a spare for my frogeyed Sprite, but later I realized that Sprite racks are upside down MM racks. But this worked out fine to be a spare for my Falcon bodied Sprite (Nassau 1959-1961, Sebring 12hr 1960, LeMans24hr 1960). Although I've never held my spare rack next to my Eleven S2 rack, I don't think they are the same. Was the rack from the earlier side valve MM different and could that be the rack used in Eleven S2? I'll verify this later this week whn I can get into my shop. The circuitus route the steering column takes and the shaped to fit motor mount bar would allow almost any rack to be used.

Roger

---

To: Lotus-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Tie Rods for Eleven Series I

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:15:52 -0400
From: jentw...@aol.com

---

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