[Lonergan_l] Fwd: Re: Frye's phil. bkgrd

[nichola...@utoronto.ca]

SALUBRIOUS SALUTATIONS!

Thanks for your important question, Maxim. Frye had a double major in
philosophy and literature; after that, he decided to be ordained which
required another degree in theology. His student essays are
fascinating--all A-s; they are now published as vol. 3 of his Collected
Works--I'd really recommend his essay on "The Augustinian Theory of
History".

What attracted me to Frye's writings was how philosophically acute he was
even in such slim volumes as THE EDUCATED IMAGINATION, where he faces
epistemological problems head on. Philosophically, he is most
influenced by Vico, not Kant, and Vico's maxim: verum factum. This is
echoed in Frye's favorite book, FINNEGANS WAKE 482.31-34: "The prouts
who will invent a writing there ultimately is the poeta...who
discovered the raiding there originally. That's the point of
eschatology about our book of kills reaches for now in soandso many
counterpoint words." Again, this is echoed in Lonergan's
METHOD,p.73: "With Giambattisa Vico, then, we hold for the priority of
poetry."
And METHOD, 70: "by its embodiment in language, in a set of
conventional signs, meaning finds its greatest liberation."

Frye, as far as I know, is the only person who spent his whole life
constructing a conceptual frameowrk, a begrifflichkite, for a verbal,
not a physical universe, and this is nicely expressed in the title
"The word within the Word" of ch.5 of his first book, FEARFUL SYMMETRY.

Lonergan's leap from Insight to Method both in outlook and in language
was such a shock to David Tracy that he says that "It was as if John
Calvin had ascended the pulpit in Geneva to announce that this year we
are going to have a Mardi Gras!" With Romans 5:5, Lonergan leaped
beyond all logic, all reasoning, all induction, to a new conceptual
framework, a new begrifflichkite, at the center of which is the
coordinating principle, with which Dante ends his Commedia: "the Love
that moves the sun and the other stars." This is also echoed in the
very last sentence of Frye's THE DOUBLE VISION in the thirty volumes
of his COLLECTED WORKS:
"The Resurrection is before us and waiting to be recognized."

--NWG

"

Quoting Maxim Faust <maxim...@gmail.com>:

> Nicholas,
>
> Re. "conceptual framework": What can you tell us of about the place of Kant
> in understanding Frye?
>
> Maxim Faust
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[Doug Mounce]

Hi Nicholas,

I remember being disappointed with Tracy's review of Lonergan's Insight
(although it had a nice intro by Bernard,) and I significantly worried
that Tracy's interpretation of Galileo's work represented what Lonergan
was thinking.

I subsequently found I don't agree as much with those who see a leap with
MiT, but fortunately for Tracy there was a significant leap with his work
on the nature of communication. regards, Doug

PS - Brodsky has an interesting commentary on Frost's use of the word
"stars" in this poem which hints how Frost studied Dante.

Come In

As I came to the edge of the woods,
Thrush music -- hark!
Now if it was dusk outside,
Inside it was dark.

Too dark in the woods for a bird
By sleight of wing
To better its perch for the night,
Though it still could sing.

The last of the light of the sun
That had died in the west
Still lived for one song more
In a thrush's breast.

Far in the pillared dark
Thrush music went --
Almost like a call to come in
To the dark and lament.

But no, I was out for stars;
I would not come in.
I meant not even if asked;
And I hadn't been.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, nichola...@utoronto.ca wrote:

> --I'd really recommend his essay on "The Augustinian Theory of
> History".

> Lonergan's leap from Insight to Method both in outlook and in language was

> such a shock to David Tracy that he says that "It was as if John Calvin had
> ascended the pulpit in Geneva to announce that this year we are going to have
> a Mardi Gras!" With Romans 5:5, Lonergan leaped beyond all logic, all
> reasoning, all induction, to a new conceptual framework, a new
> begrifflichkite, at the center of which is the coordinating principle, with
> which Dante ends his Commedia: "the Love that moves the sun and the other
> stars." This is also echoed in the very last sentence of Frye's THE DOUBLE
> VISION in the thirty volumes of his COLLECTED WORKS:
> "The Resurrection is before us and waiting to be recognized."
>
> --NWG

_______________________________________________

[nichola...@utoronto.ca]

SALUBRIOUS SALUTATIONS:

Doug writes:I subsequently found I don't agree as much with those who

see a leap with MiT,

Tracy goes on to say that he thought Method should be a bit more
intellectually rigorus, and Lonergan pointed to Langdon Gilkey and his
wife.
"Would you ask Langdon to prove his love for his wife?" Lonergan
asked. And Tracy admits that Lonergan was write.

Dorothy Sayers remarks on the relation of the INFERNO to the rest of
the COMMEDIA: To take the INFERNO for the whole of Dante is like
mistaking the underground plumbing for the city of Paris!!

Cheers,
NWG

[nichola...@utoronto.ca]

SALUBRIOUS SALUTATIONS:

Doug writes:I subsequently found I don't agree as much with those who
see a leap with MiT,

Tracy goes on to say that he thought Method should be a bit more
intellectually rigorus, and Lonergan pointed to Langdon Gilkey and his
wife.
"Would you ask Langdon to prove his love for his wife?" Lonergan

asked. And Tracy admits that Lonergan was right.

Cheers,
NWG

Quoting Doug Mounce <mou...@uw.edu>:

----- End forwarded message -----

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