Scrum Strangeness

Sometimes I give myself admirable advice, but I am incapable of taking it.

-- Mary Wortley Montagu

Mark Levison

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Apr 3, 2013, 2:59:33 PM4/3/13

to lonely-coaches-sodality

Could you call out trainers in category #2. I've not any to my knowledge.

In my course rarely do we spend enough time covering engineering techniques but I do point out they're where the productivity improvement comes from. In addition sometimes I have courses with marketing and other non software folk.

A 2 day Scrum course can't answer all questions. I try to position it as starting point not an end.

Cheers
Mark

Dave Rooney

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Apr 3, 2013, 3:03:13 PM4/3/13

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On 13-04-03 2:55 PM, Ron Jeffries wrote:

I don't believe they are "not thinking". I believe they are thinking differently.

Imagine for a moment that you have been working in the same language in the same domain, using effectively the same product development and delivery process for ~20 years.

Imagine now that some smart-assed, short, white-haired consultant is brought in to "coach" you through turning your world upside down.

It isn't a very big leap for me to understand why you would try to apply new terms and approaches to the only things you've known in your professional life. It may be painful for that coach and often frustrating, but it should be understandable.

Ironically, if you "s/20/2/", I've seen very similar if not identical issues. :)

Dave...

Dale Emery

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Apr 3, 2013, 3:10:44 PM4/3/13

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Hi Dave,

>> I don't believe they are "not thinking". I believe they are thinking differently.
>
> Imagine for a moment that you have been working in the same language in the same domain, using effectively the same product development and delivery process for ~20 years.
>
> Imagine now that some smart-assed, short, white-haired consultant is brought in to "coach" you through turning your world upside down.
>
> It isn't a very big leap for me to understand why you would try to apply new terms and approaches to the only things you've known in your professional life.

To Ron's (excellent) point: These attempts involve plenty of thinking. Maintaining the status quo in the face of a changing environment (for example, an environment in which all the cool companies are leaping to Scrum) requires thinking.

Not the thinking that smart-assed, short, white-haired consultants are hoping for, but it's thinking.

Dale

"Everything that could possibly maintain the status quo will happen." —Charlie Seashore

Dave Rooney

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Apr 3, 2013, 3:14:27 PM4/3/13

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On 13-04-03 3:10 PM, Dale Emery wrote:
> Not the thinking that smart-assed, short, white-haired consultants are hoping for, but it's thinking.

Indeed. They should consider every word from that consultant's mouth as
gospel and implement it to the fullest immediately. Hypothetically
speaking, of course. :)

Actually, I think it would be very funny to observe that in action... an
org does exactly what the consultant says, to the letter. Oh wait,
there's a term for that...

Dave...

mheusser

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Apr 3, 2013, 4:13:45 PM4/3/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

Oh I see. My email was poorly worded.

I was talking about the /graduates/ of the courses, not the
students.

I can probably get you a list of instructors of SCM who use too much
powerpoint if you gave me a little time. Honestly, all the graduates
I have talked to who fit into category #2 (that is, the /gradates/
talk in terms of pigs and chickens, count tasks, etc), do not remember
the name of the instructor they had. I ask them if they did
exercises ('did you do MLBTix?') and they don't remember.

So I'm working on poor information, just enough that I'm comfortable
asking for friends for a gut check - my exact words. If I was wrong,
I was prepared to back down.

I hope my intent is clear. Please assume good intent.

regards,

--heusser

On Apr 3, 2:59 pm, Mark Levison <m...@mlevison.com> wrote:
> Could you call out trainers in category #2. I've not any to my knowledge.
>
> In my course rarely do we spend enough time covering engineering techniques
> but I do point out they're where the productivity improvement comes from.
> In addition sometimes I have courses with marketing and other non software
> folk.
>
> A 2 day Scrum course can't answer all questions. I try to position it as
> starting point not an end.
>
> Cheers
> Mark

mheusser

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Apr 3, 2013, 4:14:51 PM4/3/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

PS: It is entirely possible the SCM graduates I talked to slept
through class through no fault of the instructor.

I mean, really, who knows?

But they did get the certificate.

--heusser

mheusser

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Apr 3, 2013, 4:30:55 PM4/3/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

graduates not the instructors. I'll stop typing now.

On Apr 3, 4:13 pm, mheusser <matt.heus...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adrian Howard

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Apr 3, 2013, 5:04:35 PM4/3/13

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On 3 April 2013 21:13, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I'm working on poor information, just enough that I'm comfortable
> asking for friends for a gut check - my exact words. If I was wrong,
> I was prepared to back down.

Personally - my experiences have been:

* From what I've seen and been told the folk teaching CSM courses are
all pretty darn good and teach sane information well.

* Since folk have started taking CSM seriously I have encountered a
few folk who say they are - and aren't...

* I read a CSM certificate as meaning "I have attended a two day CSM
course" - not "I understand Scrum" or "I am a competent scrum master".
I personally find it odd that anybody thinks a two day course can
produce either of the two latter options.

I've seen some agile newbies use their CSM course as a springboard to
understanding the basics which they then used to carry on learning
about agile and generally improving their processes. I've seen others
go home, rename their project manager as scrum masters, and just carry
on as normal. As with many things GIGO applies.

As for whether the Scrum community has been hijacked. Depends on which
Scrum community you're talking about...

Cheers,

Adrian
--
http://quietstars.com adr...@quietstars.com twitter.com/adrianh
t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh

mheusser

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Apr 3, 2013, 5:16:03 PM4/3/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

"As for whether the Scrum community has been hijacked ..."

I regret my use of that term. It is open to too many interpretations.

I did not mean some nafarious force.

Perhaps I should have said the scrum impact has been /blunted/, and it
concerns me.

regards,

--heusser

On Apr 3, 5:04 pm, Adrian Howard <adri...@quietstars.com> wrote:

> On 3 April 2013 21:13, mheusser <matt.heus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So I'm working on poor information, just enough that I'm comfortable
> > asking for friends for a gut check - my exact words. If I was wrong,
> > I was prepared to back down.
>
> Personally - my experiences have been:
>
> * From what I've seen and been told the folk teaching CSM courses are
> all pretty darn good and teach sane information well.
>
> * Since folk have started taking CSM seriously I have encountered a
> few folk who say they are - and aren't...
>
> * I read a CSM certificate as meaning "I have attended a two day CSM
> course" - not "I understand Scrum" or "I am a competent scrum master".
> I personally find it odd that anybody thinks a two day course can
> produce either of the two latter options.
>
> I've seen some agile newbies use their CSM course as a springboard to
> understanding the basics which they then used to carry on learning
> about agile and generally improving their processes. I've seen others
> go home, rename their project manager as scrum masters, and just carry
> on as normal. As with many things GIGO applies.
>
> As for whether the Scrum community has been hijacked. Depends on which
> Scrum community you're talking about...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian

> --http://quietstars.com adri...@quietstars.com twitter.com/adrianh

Yves Hanoulle

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Apr 3, 2013, 5:24:01 PM4/3/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

Scrambled by my Yphone

Op 3-apr.-2013 om 23:04 heeft Adrian Howard <adr...@quietstars.com>
het volgende geschreven:

> On 3 April 2013 21:13, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So I'm working on poor information, just enough that I'm comfortable
>> asking for friends for a gut check - my exact words. If I was wrong,
>> I was prepared to back down.
>
> Personally - my experiences have been:
>
> * From what I've seen and been told the folk teaching CSM courses are
> all pretty darn good and teach sane information well.
>
> * Since folk have started taking CSM seriously I have encountered a
> few folk who say they are - and aren't...
>
> * I read a CSM certificate as meaning "I have attended a two day CSM
> course" - not "I understand Scrum" or "I am a competent scrum master".
> I personally find it odd that anybody thinks a two day course can
> produce either of the two latter options.
>
> I've seen some agile newbies use their CSM course as a springboard to
> understanding the basics which they then used to carry on learning
> about agile and generally improving their processes. I've seen others
> go home, rename their project manager as scrum masters, and just carry
> on as normal. As with many things GIGO applies.
>
> As for whether the Scrum community has been hijacked. Depends on which
> Scrum community you're talking about...

Rofl

>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian
> --
> http://quietstars.com adr...@quietstars.com twitter.com/adrianh
> t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh
>

Mark Levison

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Apr 3, 2013, 5:33:08 PM4/3/13

to lonely-coaches-sodality

Matt suppose I increase the time in engineering techniques (not if interest to all). What should I drop? You're welcome to attend any public course I run. After that course I would welcome suggestions for what to replace.

Whatever I cover in two days will never be enough. I can only make tradeoffs.

I've not hijacked Scrum. I'm also not perfect. The best anyone can do in two days is open minds to what is possible.

I think I've found 3-4 years of useful material. Which should I cover?

Cheers
Mark

Tim Ottinger

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Apr 3, 2013, 6:49:02 PM4/3/13

to lonely-coaches-sodality

The problem of mankind is a problem of the heart: we love the wrong things.

--
Tim Ottinger, Sr. Consultant, Industrial Logic
-------------------------------------
http://www.industriallogic.com/
http://agileinaflash.com/
http://agileotter.blogspot.com/

Mark Levison

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Apr 3, 2013, 7:46:57 PM4/3/13

to lonely-coaches-sodality

Matt - I think all Scrum trainers who don't spend time on the spirit of Scrum vs the mechanics are evil. I think those who don't discuss behavioral psychology should be banished. In fact rereading Dante I'm fairly sure I saw some trainers in the Inferno.

No course will ever be enough. the best I've ever done is inspire done attendees to learn more.

Cheers
Mark

mheusser

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Apr 3, 2013, 8:48:18 PM4/3/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

On Apr 3, 5:33 pm, Mark Levison <m...@mlevison.com> wrote:
>(snip)

> You're welcome to attend any public course I run. After that course
>I would welcome suggestions for what to replace.

> ...

> I've not hijacked Scrum. I'm also not perfect. The best anyone can do in
> two days is open minds to what is possible.
>
> I think I've found 3-4 years of useful material. Which should I cover?

I certainly didn't mean to say that you, Mark Levinson, hijacked
Scrum! And I apologize for using the word 'hijack'; my meaning was
unclear.

Perhaps I should have said that I have the impression Scrum's possible
impact is blunted. I'm not sure why that is but I'm disappointed by
some folks I have seen who hold the SCM credential.

Reading your email, I got the feeling you took a little offense. I
didn't mean to insult you, man, really.

If you want to share course material, I'd be interested in that, of
course. Send me a link to your public course schedule, I would be
genuinely be interested in attending one of your courses.

As for:

>
>The best anyone can do in two days is open minds to what is possible.
>

I don't know about that -- but I do think it depends on the sort of
quality of students you get. A great deal of variation (a public
course) would make it very hard to do more than that, I suspect. I am
co-instructing a four day Immersive Agile 'Boot Camp(*)' in September;
I wonder what you think reasonable expectations for that should be?

Seriously, I'd like to share material.

regards,

--
Matthew Heusser,
Principal Consultant, Excelon Development
http://www.xndev.com

Go to the event - Test Retreat, August 24, Madison, Wisconsin!
testretreat.eventbrite.com
Or in Europe - Agile Team Academy, September, Amsterdam
http://www.agileteamacademy.com/

(*) - I spent a summer in Fort Benning Georgia, running around Sand
Hill, wearing boots. I am comfortable with that term. The actual
public term is 'Agile Team Academy.'

Adrian Howard

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Apr 4, 2013, 5:37:04 AM4/4/13

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On 4 April 2013 01:48, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about that -- but I do think it depends on the sort of
> quality of students you get. A great deal of variation (a public
> course) would make it very hard to do more than that, I suspect. I am
> co-instructing a four day Immersive Agile 'Boot Camp(*)' in September;
> I wonder what you think reasonable expectations for that should be?

My tip for bootcamp-ish things would be to worry as much, if not more,
about the filtering process for folk attending than I would the course
itself.

Just a few people who are there to fill chairs, or to tick some CPD
checkbox at their work, can kill it for everybody else.

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 4, 2013, 7:27:49 AM4/4/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

+1

i did a few 1-day agile interactive, hands-on workshops in India the other week, but was not involved with the actual selling/promotion (other than a static writeup of the agenda/course content).

some folks were ecstatic about the course. some senior architects loved how i approached dealing with architecture, others said i didn't talk about architecture at all.

one person even wrote that i didn't do anything agile.

(my friends in India said it was because I didn't use agile buzzwords, most likely)

Jon Kern

blog: http://technicaldebt.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/JonKernPA

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 4, 2013, 5:45:22 PM4/4/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

A friend of mine said

"Needs some scrum master talent for the Hartford area. If they aren’t local, we can also consider them. Would be 1 or 2 folks until October. Feel free to send this around to anyone who you think could help."

In case you know anybody...

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 5, 2013, 7:31:48 AM4/5/13

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i think it should be from smart-assed guys with mustaches… just sayin'

Jon Kern

blog: http://technicaldebt.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/JonKernPA

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 5, 2013, 7:44:47 AM4/5/13

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my thoughts about this thread… welcome to reality.

a fool with a tool is still a fool

/s/tool/process/

not to say that people are fools…

but marketing combined with buzz combined with a glimmer of logic in a process leads to management spotting a silver bullet. once it hits airplane mags, the fad goes wild, gets watered down, gets practiced in name only by legions.

and in organizations that allow a huge gap in time (seemingly infinite) between action and observed effect, and in organizations that mistake activity for progress, you get the result you are opining about. and human nature being what it is, if you can map your current world into the new world without making drastic changes, "winning!"

any the cynic in me says "who cares?" about folks screwing it up? been happening for millennia. happened with waterfall -- totally screwed up practice despite the process being much more reasonably written.

let the market sort them out. let it sort out the doers from the followers. those who "get it" will attempt to escape the lunacy, and come work for a smaller org willing to try to do agile better.

best i can do is to continue to try to spread more positive methods for succeeding at software development, and occasionally point out where flaws in popular processes are largely due to their misapplication and not really understanding the effects of the org's actions.

our culture has been handing out meaningless certificates and awards for decade(s?).

Jon Kern

blog: http://technicaldebt.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/JonKernPA

mheusser

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Apr 5, 2013, 8:54:52 AM4/5/13

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On Friday, April 5, 2013 7:44:47 AM UTC-4, Jon Kern wrote:

>

>... the cynic in me says "who cares?" about folks screwing it up? been happening for millennia.

>happened with waterfall -- totally screwed up practice despite the process being

>much more reasonably written.

>

Believe me, I hear you. Ten years ago Esther Derby told me "matt, any good idea can be implemented poorly" and I took it to heart.

I was thinking more like I might do something to educate - a book on back to basics of projects, that removes all of the invented language and rituals and starts with principles - for example, the idea that estimates are always off, but if they are consistently off, if you have a tight enough shot group, you can adjust your shot to full effect.

Does anyone know a non-military non-shooting way to explain that?

--heusser

Adrian Howard

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Apr 5, 2013, 9:02:58 AM4/5/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

I'm not trying to argue you out of writing another book - but I don't
think it'll solve the problem.

There are already a bunch of excellent books out there that cover
topics like that.

The problem isn't folk not being able to find out about new practices.
The problem is /change/.,,

Adrian (feeling overly cynical this afternoon ;-)

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>
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Ron Jeffries

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Apr 5, 2013, 9:20:15 AM4/5/13

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Hi Matt ...

On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:54 AM, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was thinking more like I might do something to educate - a book on back to basics of projects, that removes all of the invented language and rituals and starts with principles - for example, the idea that estimates are always off, but if they are consistently off, if you have a tight enough shot group, you can adjust your shot to full effect.

Does anyone know a non-military non-shooting way to explain that?

Basketball practice? Tennis serves? Juggling? Marbles?

Note that a key thing about artillery, however, is that they ALWAYS plan to miss and then adjust on the next shots. I'm not sure where else there's that fine an example.

Ron Jeffries

Before you contradict an old man, my fair friend, you should endeavor to understand him. - George Santayana

Ron Jeffries

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Apr 5, 2013, 9:20:51 AM4/5/13

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Adrian,

On Apr 5, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Adrian Howard <adr...@quietstars.com> wrote:

I'm not trying to argue you out of writing another book - but I don't
think it'll solve the problem.

There are already a bunch of excellent books out there that cover
topics like that.

The problem isn't folk not being able to find out about new practices.
The problem is /change/.,,

Adrian (feeling overly cynical this afternoon ;-)

Well, sitting on one's ass surely won't solve it. So one might as well write a book. It's kind of fun.

Adrian Howard

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Apr 5, 2013, 11:31:50 AM4/5/13

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On 5 April 2013 14:20, Ron Jeffries <ronje...@acm.org> wrote:
> Well, sitting on one's ass surely won't solve it. So one might as well write
> a book. It's kind of fun.

Sorry - me being my usual model of clarity in writing. Arse-sitting
wasn't what i was trying to encourage ;-)

Book good.

Book on practices... lots of those already and they don't appear to
help much for this particular audience.

Book on encouraging change - maybe that would be a better idea.

Not sure if such a book would be possible... I've been trying to
articulate some of my own approaches to helping folk find better ways
of working in a way they can apply themselves without much success...
I wish somebody brighter than I would write it.

Cheers,

Adrian

J. B. Rainsberger

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Apr 5, 2013, 12:51:53 PM4/5/13

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On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Ron Jeffries <ronje...@acm.org> wrote:

Hi Matt ...

On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:54 AM, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was thinking more like I might do something to educate - a book on back to basics of projects, that removes all of the invented language and rituals and starts with principles - for example, the idea that estimates are always off, but if they are consistently off, if you have a tight enough shot group, you can adjust your shot to full effect.

Does anyone know a non-military non-shooting way to explain that?

Basketball practice? Tennis serves? Juggling? Marbles?

Bowling.

To bowl well, you need two things:

1. a consistent approach to narrow the margin of error in your shots (smaller stories => smaller estimates => smaller average absolute error)

2. the ability and willingness to adjust when your aim is slightly off (or recalibrate capacity to work completed)

I know that most people won't get this, but if it helps you see an analogy that works better, then I've done my job.

--

J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.myagiletutor.com :: http://www.jbrains.ca ::
http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com
Free Your Mind to Do Great Work :: http://www.freeyourmind-dogreatwork.com

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 6, 2013, 10:42:53 AM4/6/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

sure… It's called basic statistics, the difference between accuracy and precision.

If your estimates are consistently off by a factor of 2 or of 0.5 (high precision, but poor accuracy), then simply continue to apply your estimating technique and adjust by the factor.

You can also attempt to improve your estimation techniques. The point is to measure the two and do the smart thing based on your actual trends. Eventually you might be both precise and accurate!

Jon Kern

"If you never change your mind, why have one?" - Edward de Bono

On Apr 5, 2013, at 8:54 AM, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nigel Thorne

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Apr 7, 2013, 7:21:57 PM4/7/13

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If there are lots of books on the topic then maybe a video series would be easier for your audience to consume?

---

"Man, I'm going to have so many chickens when this lot hatch!"

Tim Ottinger

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Apr 12, 2013, 5:37:12 PM4/12/13

to lonely-coaches-sodality

A Parable (I just made up)

An american businessman wanted to improve teamwork and efficiency of his employees, and so he went to the people who wrote the book on efficient teamwork: soldiers in the american special forces.

The businessman returned to his corporation and mandated that all of his employees wear a beret starting immediately.

Surprisingly and sadly, it didn't work.

Dale Emery

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Apr 12, 2013, 5:39:48 PM4/12/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

What color beret? How were they wearing it? What kind of enemy were they trying to kill? Did they wear the beret for all nine innings?

Keith Ray

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Apr 12, 2013, 5:40:44 PM4/12/13

to lonely-coac...@googlegroups.com

We "Test Mercenaries" at Google considered wearing (and calling ourselves) Green Berets. For some reason, the higher-ups thought Berets would be less militaristic than Mercenaries.

--
C. Keith Ray
* https://dl.dropbox.com/u/686328/keith_ray_resume.pdf
* http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/

Yves Hanoulle

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Apr 12, 2013, 5:51:18 PM4/12/13

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there is actually a nice book about team work written by an ex special forces, and a lot is similar with agile.

Phone 00 32 476 43 38 32
My book: Who is agile http://www.leanpub.com/WhoIsagile
Coaching Question Of the Day: http://twitter.com/Retroflection

Contact me:

YvesHanoulle

“

”

Get this email app!

2013/4/12 Dale Emery <da...@dhemery.com>

Dale Emery

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Apr 12, 2013, 8:24:31 PM4/12/13

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> there is actually a nice book about team work written by an ex special forces, and a lot is similar with agile.

Do you mean Corps Business by David H. Freedman? I like that one. (It's about the Marines in general, and not special forces in particular, so it may not be the one you're thinking of.)

Dale

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 13, 2013, 7:38:28 AM4/13/13

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it may not have worked, but at least they looked spiffy :-p

Jon Kern

http://www.amazon.com/Team-Secrets-Navy-SEALs-ebook/dp/B005LVR6XC

Glenn Waters

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Apr 13, 2013, 9:17:20 AM4/13/13

to LCS

And, I bet they had great debates over what colour the beret should be and if different resources could wear different colour berets. :O

Glenn

Yves Hanoulle

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Apr 13, 2013, 10:06:25 AM4/13/13

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no this one

Phone 00 32 476 43 38 32
My book: Who is agile http://www.leanpub.com/WhoIsagile
Coaching Question Of the Day: http://twitter.com/Retroflection

Contact me:

YvesHanoulle

“

"Try and fail, but don't fail to try." - Stephen Kaggwa

”

Get this email app!

2013/4/13 Dale Emery <da...@dhemery.com>

> there is actually a nice book about team work written by an ex special forces, and a lot is similar with agile.

Do you mean Corps Business by David H. Freedman? I like that one. (It's about the Marines in general, and not special forces in particular, so it may not be the one you're thinking of.)

Dale

mheusser

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Apr 14, 2013, 9:42:16 AM4/14/13

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"An american businessman wanted to improve teamwork and efficiency of his employees, and so he went to the people who wrote the book on efficient teamwork: soldiers in the american special forces.

The businessman returned to his corporation and mandated that all of his employees wear a beret starting immediately.

Surprisingly and sadly, it didn't work"

MY REPLY:

"We all know that SF Driven Development works, if it isn't working for you then you are implementing it wrong."

(Said no one I can recall on this list, but it's been said by folks in the greater *cough* SF Coaching Community, no?)

--heusser

ni...@agilebear.com

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Apr 15, 2013, 9:56:23 AM4/15/13

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I would adore SF driven development.

"What would the Culture do in this situation? How about the Foundation? Or House Harkonnen?"

Nigel (Who joined to make this joke)

Joakim Holm

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Apr 3, 2013, 3:45:31 PM4/3/13

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2013/4/3 Dale Emery <da...@dhemery.com>

> I'd argue that Certification, combined with the money being made, became a primary driver behind the watered-down, ineffectual implementation of a good Agile-like process such as Scrum.

Certification could not have caught on if it weren't perceived to serve some need.

So: What need drove the demand for certification?

Hi fellow coaches!

First post, long time lurker. I liked the edgy nerve in Matt's intro post so I'll jump in. I wrote a three-piece blog post a few years ago on the Scrum CSM certification and the forces at work around them. In my view, obviously.

Here's a link to the first one, which deals with the conditions which enables a market for certifications:

http://jockeholm.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/a-systems-analysis-of-csm-certification-%E2%80%93-part-1-qualification-by-proxy/

Best regards,

Joakim

Twitter: @jockeholm

Blog: jockeholm.wordpress.com

mheusser

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Apr 18, 2013, 12:50:09 PM4/18/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

Ron tweeted a wonderful article on the evolution of the scrum
community a couple days back, complete with system feedback diagrams.
I wonder if he could re-post it here?

I found it very helpful.

--heusser

mheusser

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Apr 18, 2013, 12:51:20 PM4/18/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

On Apr 3, 3:45 pm, Joakim Holm <joakim.h...@adaptiv.se> wrote:

"I wrote a three-piece blog post a few years ago on the Scrum CSM
certification and the forces at work around them. In my view,
obviously. "

I appreciated it; thanks for the link.

--heusser

Ron Jeffries

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Apr 18, 2013, 2:00:15 PM4/18/13

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Hi …

On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:50 PM, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ron tweeted a wonderful article on the evolution of the scrum
community a couple days back, complete with system feedback diagrams.
I wonder if he could re-post it here?

http://xprogramming.com/articles/csm-certification-thoughts/

Ron Jeffries

If it is more than you need, it is waste. -- Andy Seidl

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 18, 2013, 8:23:12 PM4/18/13

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nice drawings, ron! (i see the article is from October 2010)

a fool with a tool -- or a process or a certification -- is still a fool (i.e., a manager who thinks that someone with a 2-day "certification" will save the day)

it's hard for me to get past my belief that software as a team sport is driven mostly by

people

process

tools

in that order, and with a HUGE emphasis squarely on people.

good people, in the absence of any pre-ordained process or certification, will arrive at a good process. they will likely even arrive at good tools to help perform mundane, error-prone tasks. even if nUnit were not invented yet. they probably would not bestow certification amongst their own teammates, but they would likely adopt process and techniques for spooling up a new member to become effective as quickly as possible. a sort of group certification is achieved by performing as a productive team member.

in the heady old days of Rational Unified Process and other big process leviathans that we attempted to counter with agile processes, folks could "hide" behind doing some step in some process to produce some intermediate work product that they may or may not have understood its downstream utility.

agile may have exposed some of that unintentional chicanery, but agile did not stamp out human behavior. in modern software projects, folks can still "hide" behind scrum structure and process, albeit it is a bit more challenging if you are trying to be "visible" in your projects.

Jon Kern

mheusser

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Apr 19, 2013, 7:12:53 PM4/19/13

to Lonely Coaches Sodality

I opened the thread with, among other things, this quote:

On Apr 3, 1:33 pm, mheusser <matt.heus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>There are whole other groups of Scrummers who had ... different
>instructors. Who had two days of powerpoint. Who seem more
>interested in defining done, talking about pigs and chickens, and
>breaking stories into tasks that are estimated in HOURS, then
>measuring HOURS per task and being sad they don't make estimates, then
>trying to do 'gooder' estimates so they can hit the estimates next sprint.

So I just had a 90 minute product demo with a large, enterprise
software company(*) making software development tools.

The first thing they showed me was a schedule that was automatically
generated from a list of prioritized stories, estimated as the sum of
tasks, with tasks estimated in hours.

One of the big advantages of the tool, in their eyes, was that
employees could track hours spent on tasks. This allows the company
to find out if the estimates (in hours) are accurate, to make them
better over time. The feature include employee load factor, which
allows you to schedule days off, to realize if the /*individual*/ is
over-loaded on work.

When I said hey, man, have you heard of one-piece flow, counting
stories done, or yesterday's weather to predict velocity, the
spokesman said that that was possible with a "custom template" but
this was the "Straight Scrum Template."

Head. Desk.

Don't get me wrong, these folks are tryin'. They are doing a lot
right, and I think they only framed the work this way because "that is
what the market wants."

Which is what everybody else says.

Which is what got us here.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but i'd like to help if I can.

regards,

--heusser
(*) - I don't want to drop their name and "poison the well"; they
are trying and this is just one issue.

Ron Jeffries

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Apr 19, 2013, 7:45:42 PM4/19/13

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Matt,

On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:12 PM, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

When I said hey, man, have you heard of one-piece flow, counting
stories done, or yesterday's weather to predict velocity, the
spokesman said that that was possible with a "custom template" but
this was the "Straight Scrum Template."

I wasn't aware that Scrum had "templates".

Ron Jeffries

I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it

will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than

I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.

Why pay now when we can pay later?

Adrian Howard

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Apr 20, 2013, 5:38:05 AM4/20/13

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On 20 April 2013 00:12, mheusser <matt.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what to do about it, but i'd like to help if I can.

This is a technique that's worked well for me - as ever YMMV.

Ask a bunch of folk to tell you stories about how $weirdshit started.
So ask devs, testers, the PM, CEO, etc. "So - can you tell me why/how
you adopted your Scrum template?"

If your experiences are like mine you'll often get a bunch of
interestingly different stories. You'll probably find that some of
them resemble http://www.snopes.com/weddings/newlywed/secret.asp

Once you have a bit more of a clue about the constraints / traditions
that drove things in a particular direction of oddness it's much
easier to have a conversation about changing things. You often find
that person A adapted something to person B's constraint / tradition
without having the conversation about whether the constraint can be
changed.

Cheer,

Jonathan Kern

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Apr 20, 2013, 9:11:57 AM4/20/13

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this is what i am facing at my current project… i view everything i am observing (been there a couple of weeks) as symptoms, and not the problem. For example:

detailed functional specs that include funny phraseology along the lines that the customer needs to accept that this set of features will be sufficient for the next X years (and don't ask for more)
a QA process that has a tester pull up the last version and the new version in two browsers, toggling back and forth looking for obvious visual differences as they walk through different parts of the app
a 6 month release cycle with 2 months of the afore-mentioned QA

to get to the root cause, i ask lots of questions (why being the chief among them). i have found that 5 probing "why?" questions usually uncover the real reason :-)

i try to remind myself, a bunch of well-intentioned people put together their ecosystem of tools, processes, architecture, etc., using logic. it's my job to figure out where i can make improvements by learning some of the background behind the decisions. this allows me to put forth new ideas that will hopefully address y concerns and their original concerns.

Jon Kern

blog: http://technicaldebt.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/JonKernPA

Ron Jeffries

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Apr 20, 2013, 9:15:20 AM4/20/13

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Jon,

On Apr 20, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Kern <jonk...@gmail.com> wrote:

i try to remind myself, a bunch of well-intentioned people put together their ecosystem of tools, processes, architecture, etc., using logic. it's my job to figure out where i can make improvements by learning some of the background behind the decisions. this allows me to put forth new ideas that will hopefully address y concerns and their original concerns.

Yes. However, I have one suggestion for the team that I'm prepared to bet will be quite commonly applicable:

STOP DOING THAT!!!!

Ron Jeffries

I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.

Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.

Yin and Yang I figure.

-- Tom Jeffries

Adrian Howard

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Apr 20, 2013, 10:14:39 AM4/20/13

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On 20 April 2013 14:15, Ron Jeffries <ronje...@acm.org> wrote:
> Yes. However, I have one suggestion for the team that I'm prepared to bet
> will be quite commonly applicable:
>
> STOP DOING THAT!!!!

Does that work for you? Coz it almost never works for me ;-)

George Dinwiddie

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Apr 20, 2013, 11:16:36 AM4/20/13

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Adrian,

On 4/20/13 10:14 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:
> On 20 April 2013 14:15, Ron Jeffries <ronje...@acm.org> wrote:
>> Yes. However, I have one suggestion for the team that I'm prepared to bet
>> will be quite commonly applicable:
>>
>> STOP DOING THAT!!!!
>
> Does that work for you? Coz it almost never works for me ;-)

Work in the sense of making you feel better? Or in the sense of getting
them to stop doing it?

You could always bury them alive in a box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLMTvxOaeE

- George

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dale Emery

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Apr 20, 2013, 11:48:53 AM4/20/13

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> You could always bury them alive in a box.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLMTvxOaeE

Alive! That never even occurred to me!

Dale

--
Dale Emery
Consultant to software teams and leaders
http://dhemery.com

Ron Jeffries

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Apr 20, 2013, 12:49:58 PM4/20/13

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LOL.

R

On Apr 20, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Dale Emery <da...@dhemery.com> wrote:

You could always bury them alive in a box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLMTvxOaeE

Alive! That never even occurred to me!

Ron Jeffries

I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.

You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.

-- Steve Hayes

Adrian Howard

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Apr 20, 2013, 2:31:08 PM4/20/13

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On 20 April 2013 16:16, George Dinwiddie <li...@idiacomputing.com> wrote:
> Work in the sense of making you feel better?

Briefly...

> Or in the sense of getting them
> to stop doing it?

... then we hit that issue ;-)

Jon Kern

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Apr 20, 2013, 3:04:05 PM4/20/13

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LOL, i'm trying to feign being diplomatic before i blurt that out <g>

Jon Kern