Welding stuff to donate

[Simon Howes]

Hi peeps,

I have some welding and others tuff I'm considering bringing into the space. However, I thought I'd check with the list first.

First off - I've got an argon regulator (2guage) if we want to do proper argon MIG/TIG welding with a big tank. Are we likely to get a big tank or am I better of flogging this pricey bit of kit on ebay? No, you cant have it to flog it on ebay :p

Next - through a series of odd moves between rented apartments and abandoned items I have come into posession of a tiny (two small 30cm tanks) oxy-acyetylene welder, lighter and torch. It's empty now because my crazy friend used it for lighting bbqs. But it raises some questions. Legal issues and insurance/hazchem/bla bla bla. Theres also something about them exploding and while I dont want to hold prior chemical accidents against the space I will probably bin this and deny all existence of it unless someone can come up with a comprehensive plan of using this legit in the space and no-one dying. Or me somehow going to jail. Place your arduino-based suggestions on the dotted line.......

Next up - a vibratory polisher. And the ceramic media. This supposedly is the schnitzel, but its loud and noisy. It should deburr and polish machined metal parts. But it does take about a day. It's a friends, but he doesnt mind if we use it. However, if we are to bin it he would rather have it back. The ceramic media is expensive and I have two bags of it. Apparently in order to make shiny lovely parts you need to add some sort of waterflow system. But maybe thats a hack someone would like to undertake? I mean, add pump and filter?

Lastely, a big derpy ac induction motor. 400w. From old bandsaw. Deathtrap model. Good for use near open liquids Or unwanted lifeforms. If someone really wants this for a machine, I may haul it. Otherwise I wont spam the space with it.

Thats all :)
Xxx

[Billy]

I'll have the motor. I can use it for the lathe i'm building, using
3d printed parts, and salvaged bits, that i got from the dead bandsaw.

How big is big for the tank, or is it just the regulator? Paddy's
organising welding classes, but until we've got somewhere to put it,
it might be better you keeping it, till we can get a welding space set
up properly.

As for the oxy-acetylene, i think that previous tenants of Unit 23 had
that going, which is why there's safety stickers on the door, so the
building is rated for it. Trouble is, tanks of oxygen are heading
towards the Rule Zero territory with horrifying ease.

It would definitely be another machine that required proper safety
training. I'll ask a couple of metal-workers i know, if they know
anyone who can teach this.

If it's definitely empty, then it's safe to store.

How big is the ceramic polisher?

[Simon Howes]

Hi Paddy,

I'll lob the regulator into the base of my new toolbox then until we get a suitable tank. I was pondering buying a plasmRAR cutter for the space at some point and many of the new ones on ebay are 3 in 1 so they do TIG as well - which is a very useful kind of welding.

The polishers container is about the size of a big saucepot (12") across. Simple design, solenoid and spring. Maybe just seeing it we could get ideas to hex a better one from first principles....

I'll see when I can haul it in. Off work at the moment curled over with stomach pains. Still working though. Vpns and all.

[Paddy Duncan]

Toolbox? Did you find a sensible storage solution then? I need one too...

Paddy

---

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Howes
Sent: 23 May 2012 15:50
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Welding stuff to donate

---

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5017 - Release Date: 05/23/12

[Billy]

I got a reply from Ian. He says the oxy-acetylene gear will require
testing before use. He can do the practical testing for safety but not
the certification that the insurance company would require.

He says that there are also special rules for it's storage and it's
use, as it's an explosive material. The bottles will need to be
registered. BOC the gas suppliers can supply the fine details.

Insurance company will also need to be checked.

On May 23, 4:11 pm, "Paddy Duncan" <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
> Toolbox? Did you find a sensible storage solution then? I need one too...
> Paddy
>
>   _____
>

[Russ Garrett]

No acetylene in the Hackspace please. I believe it's prohibited by our
lease, and at any rate it's not something I'd be comfortable letting
untrained people near. (And although the tiny cylinders are relatively
safe, they're also really expensive.)

I don't claim to be that familiar with welding techniques, but is
there any real reason to prefer Acetylene to MIG/TIG?

Russ

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Billy]

Untrained people + Oxy gear = Rule Zero violation.

Didn't know about the lease though.

It's not that there's a reason to prefer it, it's just a different
technique, which allows a different range of materials and strengths
of welds. Arc, MIG and TIG are great as well, they all just do
different things and require different energy inputs.

Simon: If you still want to get Ian to do a safety check let me know.

Also why buy a plasmacutter? I've found a recipe for building one from
broken car parts, dismantled microwaves, and other assorted
junk.... :D

http://plasmaman.wordpress.com/

> r...@garrett.co.uk

[Steff]

On 23 May 2012 18:05, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I don't claim to be that familiar with welding techniques, but is
> there any real reason to prefer Acetylene to MIG/TIG?

For welding, no (oxy-fuel welding is pretty old-school and rarely done
these days).

There are plenty of things for which brazing is more appropriate than
welding though. FWIW, the acetylene is the really dangerous bit of the
whole setup, so a middle-ground is oxy-propane (or oxy-MAPP) if
anyone's determined to having brazing kit in the space.

S

[Russ Garrett]

On 23 May 2012 18:38, Steff <st...@steff.name> wrote:
> There are plenty of things for which brazing is more appropriate than
> welding though. FWIW, the acetylene is the really dangerous bit of the
> whole setup, so a middle-ground is oxy-propane (or oxy-MAPP) if
> anyone's determined to having brazing kit in the space.

Unless it's gone walkies, we have an oxy-propane brazing hearth, and
I'm fine with that. It's just acetylene which scares me.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Billy]

It hasn't gone walkies, it's sitting next to the rest of the welding
gear.

Oxy might be old school, but I still know a few folk using it on the
rigs and for boat-building.

> r...@garrett.co.uk

[Simon Howes]

I have been convinced by someone off list that its in my best interest to dispose of this safely and legally as soon as possible and hence the (empty) oxy/acetylene rig is no longer in my possession. Probably for the best....

Is there any interest in the deburring/polisher?

[Paddy Duncan]

Do you know if it is suitable for all metals? I.e. would it work for copper/silver etc. or would they be reduced to dust? ‘Ceramic media’ makes it sound rather hardcore…

Paddy

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Howes
Sent: 24 May 2012 10:49
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Welding stuff to donate

 

I have been convinced by someone off list that its in my best interest to dispose of this safely and legally as soon as possible and hence the (empty) oxy/acetylene rig is no longer in my possession. Probably for the best....

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5018 - Release Date: 05/23/12

[Simon Howes]

Mainly I remember it being slow, and not doing much. It gave me the impression it didnt work. Apparently you need to add some other abrasive and water to get a fine finish (hence the flow system). I have some info on this somewhere with my book on anodizing.

[Steff]

On 24 May 2012 10:55, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
> Do you know if it is suitable for all metals? I.e. would it work for
> copper/silver etc. or would they be reduced to dust? ‘Ceramic media’ makes
> it sound rather hardcore…

I know that corn cob media is pretty standard for brass cartridge
cases, if that helps.

S

[Nick Bradbeer]

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Simon Howes <simonh...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi Paddy,

I'll lob the regulator into the base of my new toolbox then until we get a suitable tank. I was pondering buying a plasmRAR cutter for the space at some point and many of the new ones on ebay are 3 in 1 so they do TIG as well - which is a very useful kind of welding.

With what seems like a surge in interest in welding (and particularly in plasma cutting and TIG), I'd like to bring up a self-centred safety issue. 

I have a pacemaker, so being near arc welding or plasma cutting is potentially a very bad thing for me to do. (Pacemaker leads act as crude antennas. Arcs induce currents in the leads which drop the signal to noise ratio, potentially to the point where they can't detect the heartbeat properly. I've been in a trial relating to this, and the results were quite impressive, particularly from the plasma.) Leaving the room while people are stick-welding is plenty of separation; I have a healthy respect for plasma cutting so I might want to leave the building.

I'm very much of the opinion that this is my problem and it shouldn't stop other members from doing the kind of making that they want to. So far I've just asked people who are welding to give me time to get out of the room and let me know when they're finished. If we have more people welding, or people doing more dangerous things (plasma cutting or TIG welding, particularly) then it would be really helpful to me if we had some sort of actual warning system. Or maybe I should make some signs to clip on the welder when I'm in the space saying "Please ask me to leave before using this."

(I did make myself a protective jacket some years ago, out of a flight suit and some electronics screening mesh, but I was young and foolish then and I'm not sure I'd feel safe relying on a homebrewed solution now.)

Nick

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Okay this is a systems aproach, something I'd usually shy from, but if
we dedicate sockets for the welding area with a safety switch we can
likely use it as a trigger for an automated warning system.

Kill-switch gets disengaged, triggers an alert to GlaDOS/doorbot to
sound a warning, something like "Alert; welding area power activated.
Electromagnetic interference and UV light warning. Maintain safe
distance until disengaged."

Of course that might need to sound repeatedly if people are entering the
space, but if it's doorbot it'd know when people entered and when to
repeat itself.

Still, getting some "alert" lights up and remote speakers for doorbot
might be helpful to ensure it's noticed. Just some slow-pulsing RGB leds
and a speaker. Could even put one outside the front door to warn people
before they enter.

Pushing further, a tidy way to go about it might be to create a
standardised "node" for environmental monitoring & feedback. Something
to combine the cameras, speakers, alert lights (maybe double as
emergency lighting), sound level and other environmental sensors (like
hazardous gasses).

Would need a board to be able to send cam data and receive audio data,
as well as send/receive lower rate serial data to/from sensors and
devices. Presuming it all wants to run down a single bit of ethernet
anyway. If we don't mind usb cable, audio and ethernet running to each,
onboard system requirements drop a lot (and become less impressive to
boast about). Something like the BeagleBone might work, tho likely still
overkill, and probably yet cheaper options.

Just thinking out loud here.

[Jasper Wallace]

Just curious but would tesla coils or jacob's ladders also be a problem?

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[Adrian Godwin]

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Okay this is a systems aproach, something I'd usually shy from, but if we
> dedicate sockets for the welding area with a safety switch we can likely use
> it as a trigger for an automated warning system.
>
> Kill-switch gets disengaged, triggers an alert to GlaDOS/doorbot to sound a
> warning, something like "Alert; welding area power activated.
> Electromagnetic interference and UV light warning. Maintain safe distance
> until disengaged."
>

Happy to do this as well, but I would like to push the social side too.

Many people are good at using some sort of welding shield b ut as
they're all a bit temporary they sometimes leak. Non-welders may not
be sufficiently aware that they shouldn't look at the arc (oooh, shiny
spark!) and when the workshop is shared it's good practise to keep
people informed. Some tutors will instruct you to shout 'EYES' or
something equally short every time you start a weld.

It would be good to encourage welders to make a bit more of a fuss.
don't assume other people know enough to avoid you. It really won't
hurt to go around the space and explain - even if it's just 'don't go
in the workshop, i'm welding' (and a bit more thorough explanation of
how to avoid eye damage for the workshop users who don't wish to
leave).

I saw some discussion about long periods of anglegrinding on IRC
today. A bit of consideration and apology when your activity impacts
others is not a bad social skill.

-adrian

[Nick Bradbeer]

Just curious but would tesla coils or jacob's ladders also be a problem?

Yes, very much so. Anything that stands to induce a current in the leads is bad - high voltage arcs, high flux RF transmissions, radar.

Unfortunately, these things all tend to be awesome.

Nick 

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Still, constant external reinforcement could only be a good thing.

What happened to the three cheap welding curtains we were going to get?
We were going to put up a ceiling-rail and be able to curtain off the
whole corner from the metal bins to the edge of the disused bathroom.

[Paddy Duncan]

This sounds great, but if it were moved to the left a bit we would not have
to not curtain off the sink, first aid kit, and fire escape ;)
And to whoever thought a piece of plywood makes a good welding table...
!!!!!!!???????
Paddy

-----Original Message-----
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter "Sci" Turpin
Sent: 25 May 2012 02:22
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Welding stuff to donate

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5019 - Release Date: 05/24/12

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Curtaining off that area also covers the brazing bench. Really needs to
be near the door for ventilation too.
Yes it obscures the sink & first-aid kit, but both are used very
infrequently and it'd only be a curtain in the way. Worst case there's
still a sink in the disused toilet and the first-aid kit only hangs on a
screw and can be moved outside the curtained area. In fact it may be a
good idea to do that anyway since it's fairly obscured as it is.

[Paddy Duncan]

You forgot to mention the fire escape, obstructing which is unacceptable.

Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5020 - Release Date: 05/24/12

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Is a curtain an obstruction?

On 25/05/2012 16:09, Paddy Duncan wrote:
> You forgot to mention the fire escape, obstructing which is unacceptable.
> Paddy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: london-h...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter "Sci" Turpin
> Sent: 25 May 2012 14:27
> To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Welding stuff to donate
>
> Curtaining off that area also covers the brazing bench. Really needs to be
> near the door for ventilation too.

> Yes it obscures the sink& first-aid kit, but both are used very

[Paddy Duncan]

I consider it one...
I'll get back to this later..

[Billy]

What about building a faraday cge for doing the welding in?

Integrate with the plastic that blocks the appropriate frequencies of
light, and we've blocked all of the damaging effects.