Blacksmithing - Arc Furnaces!
Simon Howes
Ah, yellow may be harder to get with the kiln.
Guys, all this bikeshedding on heating devices, I wonder if I might suggest an epic and quite easy to make kiln?
Youtube "carbon arc furnace diy" or somesuch now.
You can make an extremly high temperature kiln from carbon rods, a 100% duty cycle mig/arc/tig welder and some inert gas/flow equipment. And a bunch of firebricks. The hack I was looking at on youtube melted tungsten *and* the firebricks in about 5 mins!
Surely we could build something more advanced than this?
And quite easily...
Main cost would be inert gas - so its in our interest to make it at least a bit airtight. Fire cement, fire bricks and a bit of welding?
it's a bugger for getting inclusions and cracks if you try to do too much at cherry rather than yellow.
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Simon Howes <simonh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hello Tom!
We've done iron before in the kiln. Just heat it up orange hot, pop the metal in the end and leave it till it gets cherry hot then strike while the iron is still hot :)
We made the crucible tongs for the kiln like this.
That said, these were wrough iron. Not sure if mild steel has some properties that make it less mallable when its red hot...Bai oh bai bai bai
On Sep 18, 2012 9:31 AM, "tom" <bollo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd love somewhere to practice the basic stuff, I'm guessing the kiln isnt hot enough to work small pieces of mild-steel?Abby left an anvil (somewhere) in the space.I was considering doing it on our roof at home, but i dont think the people below would like the idea of a 1300c fire on their heads :/
On Monday, September 17, 2012 5:24:51 PM UTC+1, PaddyD wrote:What would you like to do?
I'm keen but it's a lot of kit, amounting to a lot of money, and not practical to do in the space..
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of tom
Sent: 17 September 2012 16:32
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
long term what are our plans for doing this in/near the space? Its a pain in the arse only being able to do it once a week :)
On Monday, September 17, 2012 2:09:02 PM UTC+1, PaddyD wrote:Go for it..
Paddy
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Steward
Sent: 17 September 2012 13:58
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
I'm interested in coming along this week. Should I rearrange the wiki page?
Mark
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:08 PM, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
3 places open this week.
Who's interested in coming for this wednesday?
Me, siobhan and (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) Tom are going this weekAfter talking to Ian he's willing to increase the class size to 6 since we tend to end up with at least one not being able to make it and he prefers a class of 5 and if he does end up with 6 he's still got the space.
got your steel for the hammer yet Paddy?On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:54 PM, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
1 space availiable to anyone who wants in! come along! it's awsome!
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Lindsay Morrison <metalmonk...@gmail.com> wrote:
hi blacksmithing folks,
i'm not going to be able to make it tonight, have had an emergency at work :( so my space is free. i'm going to be out of the country untill 15 october, but would really like to keep doing the smithing when i get back.
lindsay
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:20 AM, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I'm not sure you've been there before tom:
about 6:30 tonight
bring older clothes and £30.
Stepney City Farm, Stepney Way
If you can't get in the gate hang round and someone will be along sooner or later.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
Great stuff! Glad to see it full again. I've updated the wiki, not that anyone goes there...
Paddy
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of tom
Sent: 06 September 2012 12:34
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
I'll have next weeks one!
On Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:12:05 AM UTC+1, David wrote:lovely, 1 space left for anyone who wants a go.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Lindsay Morrison <metalmonk...@gmail.com> wrote:
i would like to do next week's blacksmithing class.
lindsay
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi , we didn't get enough people last night. is anyone who tried it at EMF interested in some more blacksmithing classes?
me, siobhan and john laban should be there next week so I think we have 2 spaces.On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:54 PM, pad...@padski.co.uk <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
Ok ta I'll email them directly.
Paddy
Sent from my thing.----- Reply message -----
From: "David Murphy" <murphy...@gmail.com>
To: <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [london-hack-space] BlacksmithingDate: Tue, Aug 28, 2012 20:19
I think yer man and his son are going. not sure at all though.On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
No problem. My previous email referred to the last 2 places. You, David, and Siobhan have the first 3..
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lindsay Morrison
Sent: 28 August 2012 19:09
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
hey, i want to do blacksmithing this week..
lindsay
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:02 PM, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Me and S should be there for blacksmithing this wednesday.
Who else is going this week?On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Lindsay Morrison <metalmonk...@gmail.com> wrote:
hi emma, sorry to hear about the elbow. am just recovering from wrist injuries myself. thanks for letting me know about the space. hope you get better soon!
L
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Emma Wignall <elwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I've injured my elbow and think I'm going to be unable to attend for 2-3 weeks :( . If Hipster is back, then my space will be free on 1 Aug.
Emma
On Friday, July 20, 2012 2:30:19 PM UTC+1, Lindsay Morrison wrote:hi hipster,
i've heard you have an injury and are out of comission for a few weeks? sorry to hear that, but could i have your space on the blacksmithing not next wednesday, but the following one, on 1 august?
hope you recover soon!
lindsay
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:08 PM, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Lindsay,
Then it is yours..
Paddy
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lindsay Morrison
Sent: 17 July 2012 23:04
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
hello!
i would REALLY love one of the blacksmithing spaces tomorrow.
lindsay
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
Hi All,
There are 2 places free for tomorrow, Hipster's (hurt his hammer hand), and mine (unexpectedly have to be elsewhere).
There is a wiki page... http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Blacksmithing
Please reply asap if you are interested, priority will go to those already on the page, and ideally I would like my place back the following week, as I am close to finishing what I want to achieve.
Cheers
Paddy
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David Murphy
David Murphy
Paddy Duncan
This is the first bit of bikeshedding I’ve seen on this matter. For blacksmithing we don’t need to melt tungsten or firebricks, just heat steel to yellow. Evenly.
Simon Howes
Arc welders are low voltage/high current
Despite popular belief
They're actually big step down transformers.
Try measuring one - often about 8-14Volts
But the current 25-100 amps :)
Simon Howes
Yeah, I was just trollin' :)
But arc furnace = win, no?
Come on, tell me it doesnt make you geeksweat
Russ Garrett
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-15KW-High-Frequency-Induction-Heater-Furnace-Heating-Machine-/271054285817
--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk
David Murphy
it does sound 100% awsome but may not be perfectly suited to blacksmithing.
Billy
It's still in the "arguing about it" phase of the design process, so
why not contribute here, http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Induction_Furnace
On 18 Sep, 10:37, David Murphy <murphy.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> that... doesn't make me fee much safer.
>
> it does sound 100% awsome but may not be perfectly suited to blacksmithing.
>
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Simon Howes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Arc welders are low voltage/high current
> > Despite popular belief
>
> > They're actually big step down transformers.
> > Try measuring one - often about 8-14Volts
>
> > But the current 25-100 amps :)
>
> >> I have some reservations about combining high voltage/ampage with metal
> >> bars I'm trying to hold to heat and work on.
>
> >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Simon Howes <
> >> simonhowes...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Ah, yellow may be harder to get with the kiln.
> >>> Guys, all this bikeshedding on heating devices, I wonder if I might
> >>> suggest an epic and quite easy to make kiln?
>
> >>> Youtube "carbon arc furnace diy" or somesuch now.
> >>> You can make an extremly high temperature kiln from carbon rods, a 100%
> >>> duty cycle mig/arc/tig welder and some inert gas/flow equipment. And a
> >>> bunch of firebricks. The hack I was looking at on youtube melted tungsten
> >>> *and* the firebricks in about 5 mins!
>
> >>> Surely we could build something more advanced than this?
> >>> And quite easily...
>
> >>> Main cost would be inert gas - so its in our interest to make it at
> >>> least a bit airtight. Fire cement, fire bricks and a bit of welding?
>
> >>>> it's a bugger for getting inclusions and cracks if you try to do too
> >>>> much at cherry rather than yellow.
>
> >>>> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Simon Howes <
> >>>> simonhowes...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Hello Tom!
>
> >>>>> We've done iron before in the kiln. Just heat it up orange hot, pop
> >>>>> the metal in the end and leave it till it gets cherry hot then strike while
> >>>>> the iron is still hot :)
>
> >>>>> We made the crucible tongs for the kiln like this.
> >>>>> That said, these were wrough iron. Not sure if mild steel has some
> >>>>> properties that make it less mallable when its red hot...
>
> >>>>> Bai oh bai bai bai
>
> >>>>>> I'd love somewhere to practice the basic stuff, I'm guessing the kiln
> >>>>>> isnt hot enough to work small pieces of mild-steel?
> >>>>>> Abby left an anvil (somewhere) in the space.
>
> >>>>>> I was considering doing it on our roof at home, but i dont think the
> >>>>>> people below would like the idea of a 1300c fire on their heads :/
>
> >>>>>> On Monday, September 17, 2012 5:24:51 PM UTC+1, PaddyD wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> What would you like to do?
>
> >>>>>>> I'm keen but it's a lot of kit, amounting to a lot of money, and not
> >>>>>>> practical to do in the space..
>
> >>>>>>> googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *tom
> >>>>>>> *Sent:* 17 September 2012 16:32
> >>>>>>> *To:* london-h...@**googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
> >>>>>>> long term what are our plans for doing this in/near the space? Its a
> >>>>>>> pain in the arse only being able to do it once a week :)
>
> >>>>>>> On Monday, September 17, 2012 2:09:02 PM UTC+1, PaddyD wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Go for it..
>
> >>>>>>> Paddy
>
> >>>>>>> googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Steward
> >>>>>>> *Sent:* 17 September 2012 13:58
> >>>>>>> *To:* london-h...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
> >>>>>>> googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *tom
> >>>>>>> *Sent:* 06 September 2012 12:34
>
> >>>>>>> *To:* london-h...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
> >>>>>>> googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Lindsay Morrison
> >>>>>>> *Sent:* 28 August 2012 19:09
>
> >>>>>>> *To:* london-h...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [london-hack-space] Blacksmithing
> >>>>>>> googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Lindsay
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Ian Lowe
Ian the Blacksmith here. Induction heating of steel has until fairly recently, been the domain of heavy industry. I have seen and used the new small, copper coil type units when I was over in the States. The knife makers love them, but most general smiths over there view them as impractical for general forge use. Mainly as you have to make the coil/loop to fit each specific task (simple for knives). Great for spot heats but not so great for longer heats. Personally speaking a solid fuel forge is what I'd suggest for simplicity, then a gasser, then an oil burner.
On a seperate note:
The Farm have begun to advertise the Wednesday evening classes on their website and are pestering me for the ok to advertise on other websites too. That means that from now on its likely to be a bit of a free for all regarding places so its been decided the best thing to do is to start prebooking spots. Its easy enough, all anyone has to do is register their interest with me directly via email and then pay for the session they want to attend in advance. To secure a place on the following session you'd need to pay for that session at the same time. Then at that session you'd pay for the next session and so on. Essentially paying a week in advance secures your spot.
Non attendee's would lose their automatic spot and the money for the class they'd paid for in advance. Dont get me wrong, if you've been run over or your Mum died then we can talk about refunds and getting your spot back but because of the Farms desire for more control over how I do things the emphasis is on filling the five places consistently to ensure their cut of the proceeds. I hope it doesn't put anyone off, its not my idea but I can see the point the Farm manager is making.
Feel free to get in touch to talk about it, we can sort any problems I'm sure.
IAN
Paddy Duncan
Hi All,
The farm has not begun to advertise the Blacksmithing evening classes. This may partly explain why I was the only attendee on Wednesday, and it was cancelled..
FYI Ian the only mention of it on their website is in the Info Pack PDF, and links to the forge Facebook page.
So, who's up for next Wednesday?
Cheers
tom
Paddy Duncan
Tom you are confirmed with Ian.
And regarding Ian's post below I'll be updating the wiki page shortly re how we are to avoid under or over bookings etc..
Cheers
Paddy
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Paddy Duncan
Anybody else up for blacksmithing tomorrow?
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Billy
I'll come along if there's a space going.
Paddy Duncan
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Billy
See you at 1830...
DomK
David Murphy
pad...@padski.co.uk
I'll let Ian know
Sent from my thing.
From: "David Murphy" <murphy...@gmail.com>
To: <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
pad...@padski.co.uk
Anyone else for today?
Paddy
Billy
I haven't had enough sleep. I'd like to skip this one. Can you add me
to next week?
On Oct 3, 11:04 am, "pad...@padski.co.uk" <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:
> Both you and Billy are confirmed with Ian, so that's 4 now.
> Anyone else for today?
> Paddy
>
> Sent from my thing.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "David Murphy" <murphy.da...@gmail.com>
> To: <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [london-hack-space] Re: Blacksmithing - Arc Furnaces!
> Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 09:06
> I'm now free this evening so I can come this week.
>
pad...@padski.co.uk
Cheers
Paddy Duncan
..and I suppose not really rage quit; in the interest of keeping the place booked up, all avenues will remain open.
Paddy
-----Original Message-----
From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of DomK
Sent: 03 October 2012 08:30
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Cc: pad...@padski.co.uk
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5308 - Release Date: 10/03/12