Another cycle related theft by the hackspace, and a call for an organised response.

[Richard Stevenson]

The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high quality locks.

I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys. 

At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses and organisations and the police. We're a major local community organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that working with others is a key part of the puzzle.

[930913]

It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how to wield cameras and edit in house.

We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)

Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if needs be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)

[samthetechie]

My bike was stolen recently. Count me in. Chris (Hipster's Bike was stolen too recently).

[samthetechie]

Chris' Bike Theft: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/london-hack-space/wOUizvWHsFA
Sam's Bike Theft: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/london-hack-space/bike/london-hack-space/WfS_KYVuv38/eIm7NXFo_EkJ
And there are many others sadly, just look back through the list... :(

On Monday, 22 October 2012 03:47:15 UTC+1, 930913 wrote:

[samthetechie]

A random documentary (skip to 7mins) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdugFzCi24&feature=relmfu
To cut a long story short (no pun intended...) large bolt cutters always win... :(

[Jon Fautley]

On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police
> about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged
> bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk
> style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them
> and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.

Or, more likely one of the following will happen:

1. You'll get stabbed
2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)

While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
"What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".

Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
floodlights for the bike area in the car park?

[Tim Storey]

And CCTV and bright floodlights have been doing such a fabulous job of preventing theft so far by the station on the street etc...

No one's going to get stabbed or arrested and nor is the thief/s going to organise a gang to terrorise the Hackspace, even if we all wear Hackspace hats and chant "Hackspace Hackspace la la la"

I appreciate your concern about getting involved but spreading fear is not very helpful IMHO.

This is a problem for the whole community and the reason people are afraid to actually stand up and do anything is due to terror spread by the media and comments such as these.

I'm not sure filming a documentary is a great idea either but I'm not in favour of spreading fear.

\t

[Tim Reynolds]

Getting the community involved is one thing, chasing people down
vigilante style is quite another. It's not spreading fear; it's being
realistic. If you're intent on doing it, I'd not mention it to the
council or the police as any interest they had in helping you out would
probably evaporate.

[Russ Garrett]

Firstly, I assume all these thefts have been reported to the police?

I don't think we can really condone any kind of sting action, nor do I
think that it'll do any good.

It's likely that the most productive thing that people can do is help
out looking for a new space, where we'll have enough room to provide
lockable bike storage:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[phil jones]

I wonder if there's another Cramer centre resident / local shop which
might be persuaded to rent us some bike-storage space in the meantime.

phil

[930913]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:

1. You'll get stabbed 
2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone 
3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and 
its members) a hard time (see also: 1.) 

1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a sting operation commences?

2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief.

3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly break the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free to don chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)

[David Murphy]

it'd be kinda stupid to try to chase people down.

it will only lead to some scared waster stabbing someone.

on the other hand sticking some trackers into a bike, perhaps even a tiny camera and being able to go to the police and say "this is the address and house number where our bike is, this is a picture of his face, this is a picture of him stealing the bike, this is his mothers maiden name" and give them a really easy arrest.

[Benjamin Blundell]

Right, I'm weighing in on this one as its personal... I've had bikes
stolen and wheels nicked and all the rest. I can assure you that it
pisses me off royally as I rely on a bike for work and my profession.
It makes me grumpy for weeks when I have no wheels. As a regular
driver of cars, vans, motorcycles and bikes in London, I've seen it
all.

The only way to stop this is to make the risk greater than reward. To
do that, we need to provide secure storage and to do that we need more
control over our space, which means a new space. Our efforts would be
better placed towards this.

I still cycle to the space, and I will continue to do so. My office is
above also, so I have little choice in the matter. Sting operations
and 'justice' is all well and good but it requires a lot of effort and
is essentially fighting a negative with a negative. I have no problems
with people doing this on their own - I admit it can be fun and
somewhat cathartic but the space as a whole can't take that line. As a
whole, we need to seriously start looking for somewhere new and
sharpish.

B

--
S E C T i O N 9

|- Benjamin Blundell
|- www.section9.co.uk
|- www.twitter.com/secti0n9
|- Unit 30, Cremer Business Centre, Hoxton, London

[David Murphy]

perhaps something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo

note everyone, at no point did he run after the guy shouting questions or risk getting stabbed.

 

he did however get his stuff back.

[SamLR]

Would it be worth putting up a sign and making some "tracker boxes"?

Rather than dicking around with trackers and cameras why not just stick some reasonably tough boxes with a reasonably 'real' looking lens on them pointed at a bike rack (I'd suggest the one in the Business Centre) with a nice big "smile you're on CCTV" sign on it. It's one thing to be aware that there is CCTV about the place and it might possibly see your back in grainy 400x400-o-vision it's another to have a camera lens pointed at you whilst you try to nick someone's bike (extra points for blinkin lights etc). 

Of course if you really want you could actually make this box but I imagine it'll get smashed pretty quickly but if it's a nice block of wood with acrylic on the outside and whatever electronics well protected in the centre it should be ok.

S

[Jasper Wallace]

[thread bump with relevent info]

http://lcc.org.uk/articles/70-arrests-in-one-week-as-police-crack-down-on-cycle-theft-across-greater-london

^-- thats what you should be doing, now get on with it :P

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[Fuxy]

I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.

I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.

[Mark Steward]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Fuxy <ciu...@gmail.com> wrote:

I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.

I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.

Everyone's a wit after Friday night drinks.  Glad you considered this worth sending to over 1500 people.

Mark

[Simon]

I have just bought one of these https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister when it arrives I will install it at the space and if anyone is interested to see what it entails and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will do the install


Simon

[Simon]

As part of an organised response we hackspace members can do is to ensure we go through the tedium of reporting theft of bikes from hackspace to at least make the police aware of the problem.  I know I have been guilty of not dong this after a couple of bike thefts because I had zero expectation of ever seeing my bike again but that actually makes me part of the problem because they didn't appear in crime statistics.

We could also check with the landlord as to the coverage of the newly installed CCTV and then make sure we only lock bikes where they can be seen by the cameras

[Richard Stevenson]

I reported both of mine, and I have to say that it wasn't all that tedious. I just called 101 and it got done pretty easily, and I didn't have to actually look at a policeperson, which was nice. There's also https://online.met.police.uk/ - which is perfectly suitable for reporting a bike theft.

[Howard]

The Bike Register website is impressive, it reminds me of another company's service which I signed up to a while ago (Bike Shepherd), but Bike Register offers a more local view of bicycle theft via their map feature.  I feel this would be better with a time drop-down as well (e.g. being able to see most recent thefts, say only from this year).   Bike Shepherd seems a little too half-finished these days, operating at a uselessly global-level, meaning if you're signed up to their alerts, you're informed about thefts in America - unable to only be notified of more local thefts (say from London, or a particular borough).

I'd like to see a bicycle register/tagging website/app which alerts users to bicycles stolen from their local area (in real-time!) as these people would then be most likely to spot a stolen bicycle or part (my own bicycle that was stolen from Bethnal Green was then spotted by myself around two weeks later within 1km of where it was stolen from!).

Howard

(Co-ordinator of a #BicycleMovementAlert project for Urban Bicycle Defence)

Ps.

Like the use of RFID in this product - be even better if cyclists could somehow be able to scan parked bicycles automatically (via mobile RFID readers attached to mobile phones?!) to check if those bicycles are registered as stolen.

Given that the Met are using the Bike Register database, it would be nice if the part of this database which details stolen bicycles was openly accessible to other applications (e.g. one described as above, that informed local cyclists in real-time about a bicycle theft).

On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:42:13 UTC+1, Simon wrote:

[Bacon Zombie]

--
ฤ ฮ ฦ

BaconZombie

LOAD "*",8,1

[SamValiant]

Someone recently nicked my brake pad inserts (not at Hackspace mind) causing me to not being able to stop at a roundabout and consequently be hit by a lorry. I now always do a full check before I ride off. Would have preferred them to nick the whole brake at least them it would have been visible.

How about a group buy on security bolts like Pitlocks etc to replace the hex/nut/quick release bits on our bikes? Also you can get locks or rather chains that will defeat all bolt croppers upto 4ft. Pragmasis are the guys to speak to about that, their 16mm and 19mm are epic. Though pricey.

[SamValiant]

PS - Other than a few bruises and some scrapes I was ok.

[Billy]

Would you be up for organising this?

Make a list of what you think we need for a hackspace bike security
kit.

I'll chip in to the first group buy. Could you ask about trade
accounts?

On 6 Nov, 09:28, SamValiant <s...@selfharmony.co.uk> wrote:
> Someone recently nicked my brake pad inserts (not at Hackspace mind)
> causing me to not being able to stop at a roundabout and consequently be
> hit by a lorry. I now always do a full check before I ride off. Would have
> preferred them to nick the whole brake at least them it would have been
> visible.
>

> How about a group buy on security bolts like Pitlocks<http://www.pitlock.com>etc to replace the hex/nut/quick release bits on our bikes? Also you can

> get locks or rather chains that will defeat all bolt croppers upto 4ft.

> Pragmasis <http://securityforbikes.com/security-chains.php> are the guys to

[Morris]

I'm interested also.

--
>
++++++++++[>+>+++>++
+++++>++++++++++<<<<
-]>>>+++++++.>++++++
+++++.+++..---------
.++++++++++.<<+++.<.

[Tim Storey]

I have one of their chains and I can recommend it, so far nothing locked with it has been stolen, every other component not secured by it has at various points…

\t

[Morris]

I still find it surprising that it happens so much.

[Tim Storey]

I wouldn't bother with pitlocks though, just lock everything.
Take off the front wheel and lock it to the back wheel through the chain stays and the frame.
Hope for the best with seat and bars and brakes…
I usually take off the seat and put it in my bag.

That said my Brompton got nicked the other night, they sawed through the post it was chained to. So the chain and lock got nicked as well :(
Grrr...

\t


On 6 Nov 2012, at 09:28, SamValiant <s...@selfharmony.co.uk> wrote:

[930913]

Hmm, forgot to post my findings. The police said that once the bike had been stolen, we should hand it over to them to catch the thief. They didn't want us chasing after them :( We could still make a stingbike, it's just that there won't be a climactic ending to it.

On Monday, October 22, 2012 3:47:15 AM UTC+1, 930913 wrote:

It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how to wield cameras and edit in house.

We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)

Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if needs be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)

On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:37:21 AM UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:

The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high quality locks.

I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys. 

At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses and organisations and the police. We're a major local community organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that working with others is a key part of the puzzle.

[Daveb]

How about we build a computerised security-guard for the hack-space and the fence across from the back doors...

Maybe something like:

* a camera that records the bike-fence

* an rfid reader to signal that you are adding a bike to the fence, and later removing the same bike

* and the security guard to watch for unexpected changes to the bike population of the fence

I know it is NOT a general solution to the problem, but as the cut post shows, there is no general solution.

if we get it working, it could be reasonably cheap to deploy in many public places... and become part of a sufficient solution.

[930913]

A big enclosure is.. well.. big. The problem with bike locks, is that they have to be light enough to be moved with the bike. I point out, that an impractically large lock can be used, were it to stay by the space.

So, people can cycle to the space and have a lock waiting there for them to tie up their bike.

A simple example is buying a beast of a chain (such as those used for anchors), and a heavy duty lock (cheaper than a bike one, because it's not expensive light material) Weld/tie the chain to an immoveable object and keep the keys in the space. Bonus points for RFID managed key release system.

Were a thief to see chains as thick as their fingers wrapped around a bike, I think they'd look for easier targets.

[Jaimal Chohan]

As an aside (it doesn't really help the immediate situ of your bike being stolen), do any of you have cycle insurance or experience of it and is it worth it? 

[Adrian Godwin]

This sounds sensible but may fall down socially.

1. There was a previous attempt to buy a huge chain by pledge, but not many people contributed.

2. We suffered a lot of problems with car park permits : people didn't bother returning them to the space until we put huge boards on them so they were a nuisance left in the car. Going up & down stairs in order to return the key to the space might be too much to bear for some people.

If you can get enough interested parties to both contribute to the cost and to manage the key(s) responsibly, it might work.

 

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:04 PM, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com> wrote:

[Daveb]

Anchor chains are easy to cut with boltcutters etc. The main requirements on anchor chains are that they be heavy, resistant to rust and cheap. So they tend to be galvanised iron/steel.. 

An anchor chain that wont fit in the jaws of a bolt cutter would still be easily cut by a cutting blade.

What about a steel u-tube filled with a mix of stuff that is hard to cut... so each tool is defeated by something in the tube...

--- concrete so gravel and sand clog up bold cutter jaws?

--- soft gunk to clog up rotating blades?

--- burnable gunk to generate a plume of horrid smelly smoke (for a cutting torch)?

--- liquid to spray the thief?

And a lock in a housing that the stays behind the bike where it is hard to apply tools to it?

[Jasper Wallace]

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012, Adrian Godwin wrote:

> This sounds sensible but may fall down socially.
>
> 1. There was a previous attempt to buy a huge chain by pledge, but not many people contributed.

That was for a chain for the entrance balcony thing, which we couldn't do
cos the landlord didn't want us to (fire escape probably).

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[Adrian Godwin]

Yes, agreed, but I think the pledge had already petered out by the time that became obvious.

There's nothing wrong with the idea, but it needs decent support.

[Samuel Keating-Fry]

Regarding bike insurance: Be sure to check out the terms of the policy. Some won't cover you if the bike is locked outside late at night. Some only cover you if the complete bike is stolen and won't pay out if only your wheels get nicked.
It's a bit of a minefield. My bike is insured on my home policy with more than. It seems to have more reasonable terms than some of the bike specific policies I looked at.

S

[Philippe Bradley]

If you're concerned about bike bits being nicked, fix a ball bearing in the hex end with wax or hot melt-glue: http://www.bikehacks.com/bikehacks/2010/03/eight-solutions-to-fight-bicycle-part-theft.html

[Sam Valiant]

Also if you happen to have M&S Home Insurance you should be covered for bikes, even when locked outside or stolen from work!