Bike Theft Challenge

[Wasim]

I went to the opening event of the NESTA Bike Theft Challenge recently. See here for details: http://www.nesta.org.uk/areas_of_work/challengeprizes/cyclingchallenges/assets/features/hands_off_my_bike

They explained details about the prize, the timeline and what they're looking for in a successful application. They also made a few suggestions on things worth investigating and stuff they thought would be a waste of time.

Very interesting day but, to cut a long story short, I'd like to apply. Mainly 'cos I've had 3 bikes stolen over the years - including one out of a locked garden shed behind a six foot wall with a padlocked gate. I get very attached to my bikes so I'm stoked at the idea of figuring out new and better ways to prevent bike theft.

It's not something I can do by myself but if there are are Hackspacers interested in joining up and making an application, let me know.
If there's enough we can arrange to meet up - I'll give an overview of the Challenge and we can take it from there.

Wasim

[Aden]

I'm thinking flame throwers, high voltage, lasers, sharks...

[Nick Johnson]

If you're looking for inspiration, I have a Tigr lock (http://tigrlock.com/) and I'm very happy with it. It's more versatile than a D-Lock, but (reputedly) harder to break, too.

-Nick

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Wasim <wasim...@gmail.com> wrote:

[David Murphy]

My preference would be a pretty simple one: stick trackers in a moderate number of appealing bikes, spread them round and wait for them to be stolen.

then have the police kick in the doors of the places they were tracked to. shooting those inside is optional.

 

Repeat until until the fuckers who buy shady bikes for a bargain from some guy down the pub start to get a bit nervous and the people storing lots of stolen bikes are in jail.

[tim_n]

NFC to a mobile device

 

Bike senses movement away from device

 

Extends small needles through gloves from the handgrips joined to a taser.

[IrradiatedHaggis]

Or extend a spike up through the seat... Ouch




Sent from Samsung tablet

[David Murphy]

or ignites bars of magnesium inside the whole body of the bike upon recieving a signal indicating it's been stolen.

[Alexander Halford]

Why not have the signal ignite a black-powder charge underneath the saddle. Then tell the police to arrest the guy who just flew twenty feet into the air...

[tim_n]

Thermite might work better.

[David Murphy]

or have the black powder charge propel a large spike up through the saddle.

This guy could consult on spike design.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Vlad_Tepes_002.jpg/220px-Vlad_Tepes_002.jpg

[Aden]

Transmitter in seemingly unused dlock in the same area, spike,
blackpowder, tasers deploy when bike goes out of range of it.

[David Murphy]

Our ideas much good for the competition though unless there are multiple rounds.

"sure we lost our bike the first round but  nobody dared take a single one of our bikes in the later rounds"

[Simon Howes]

Sense when the bike comes up to high speed.
then clamp the front break and leave it locked
And sound the siren/waveshield to continually playback "bike thief" to the derp lying on the asphalt

[Steff]

On 23 August 2012 14:16, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My preference would be a pretty simple one: stick trackers in a moderate
> number of appealing bikes, spread them round and wait for them to be stolen.
>
> then have the police kick in the doors of the places they were tracked to.
> shooting those inside is optional.
>
> Repeat until until the fuckers who buy shady bikes for a bargain from some
> guy down the pub start to get a bit nervous and the people storing lots of
> stolen bikes are in jail.

While the "emit ebola using thermite-powered lasers" solutions are
amusing, this is the actual solution. Bike theft is a problem because
the attempts to police it are erratic and feeble, so bike thieves see
it as low risk and lucrative and their (vile, stupid) customers know
that the chance of the origin of their new bike causing them
difficulty is nil.

S

[tim_n]

How about a thin metal heating element under the saddle to brand theives with?  Bit like the old 'P' for pirate of old.

 

If he denies the theft, he's a liar because his pants are on fire?

[Ken Boak]

Multiple laser engravings of the owners post code into the frame?

KB

[Eugene Nadyrshin]

On a non-trolling note, Howard has started a project to help solve the problem with bike theft, I'm helping him a bit with the electronics side of things. Maybe there's space for collaboration?

Cheers
Eugene

[Nick Leaton]

Kevlar bike chains spring to mind. Very difficult to cut through, even with an angle grinder. 

--
Nick

[Howard]

Yup,

progress has been slow, but steady, :-)

project page here

more collaborators welcome - especially those that can assist with building the (so far illusive!) working prototype,

current effort is to make an Ardurino detect movement then notify an Android mobile phone via BT,

so far paired up a Bluetooth-chip and an Android phone:

http://www.gandish.com/project-fungus/prototype.html

now need to get the Gadget Shield to speak to the phone..

{ongoing!}

[Nick Johnson]

The way I read the rules of the competition, it's aimed squarely at preventing removal of a bike. An alarm won't prevent removal, it'll alert someone to the fact that it's been removed. As such, won't it fail to meet the requirements of the contest?

-Nick

[Wasim Juned]

Great ideas all round!

My first few ideas on this were a bike spike and electrifying the bike.
Unfortunately it turns out they won't award a prize to something that kills the thief - shame really!

Also, something that just alerts the public won't do the job - they demo'ed a video of someone stealing a bike in public view. No-one did anything. Even when it was clear they were simply helping themselves with their massive pair of bolt cutters. So, yes, an alarm won't do the job.

Tricky problem. It has to be something that's practical and, during the intro event I attended, they said they'll do a timed removal of each bike as part of the test. So, a big 5 ton metal cage over the top of the bike would fail (even though it would probably win the timed challenge).

Happy to collaborate.
Ping me if interested.

w

[Nick Leaton]

Some of us will. I challenged someone in the street stealing a bike after calling the police. They ran off. The police never turned up. 

Then yesterday, someone was loading a bike in the work's car park, in the back of a van. Told security, and they checked the CCTV. The bike had arrived in the van so no problems. 

More people should challenge people. 

--
Nick

[Howard Alistair Mitchell]

hey Nick,

entry criteria is the following:

The challenge is open to any UK legal resident aged 14 or over or organisation with a UK base that comes up with an innovation to make it more difficult to steal bikes.

by a cyclist being alerted that their bicycle is moving, thereby giving them a prompt to investigate what's causing the movement, a cycle-thief will find it harder to steal bicycles as a cyclist has the opportunity to defend their bicycle in such a scenario (e.g. vocally, 'THIEF!!!', or say by 'negotiation' if necessary!);

Howard

On 23 August 2012 15:42, Nick Johnson <arac...@notdot.net> wrote:

--

(sent from my mobile computer/phone, please excuse my brievty)

Howard Alistair Mitchell

ha.mitchell.mobile@gmail.com

ha.mitchell.home@virginmedia.com

[Eugene Nadyrshin]

I think it's open to interpretation as it states "to make it more difficult to steal bikes" It doesn't mention if it's the direct or indirect effect.

In my case the bike was chained outside my window and the thief trying to steal my bike managed to wake me up preventing the theft of the bike (albeit he did damage the bike in the process).

Any lock/chain is removable the question how long does it take to do so. It's really hard to remove the chain on the bike without causing a significant amount of disturbance to the bike itself that can easily be picked up with vibration sensor and you being alerted. It would be interesting to see CCTV footage of bike theft to see how long it takes on average per chain/lock type, anyone come across anything like this?

Mentar/Eugene

[Howard Alistair Mitchell]

hey Wasim,

to be clear, the idea of Project Fungus, is that the cyclist themselves is alerted (via a buzzer or a noise), so they have a chance to investigate the cause of their bicycle moving;

i agree, an alarm in my view is unhelpful as it would go off when another cyclist just happens to be innocently moving a bicycle to aid parking theirs (!);

would be good to see some other ideas being entered into the competition as well, i like the idea of secure bicycle parking, e.g. an Oyster-card operated bicycle clamp (a modified Cycle Hoop!);

Howard

On 23 August 2012 15:52, Wasim Juned <wasim...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Howard Alistair Mitchell]

hey Nick,

Completely agree.

Hence, the attitude to challenging potential bicycle thieves, or 'negotiating' with them (!), could spread like fungus once such technologies get implemented into urban bicycle security.

My snail-pace (Warp Factor One) prototype development of such a device could be much helped by an enthusiastic electronics competent HackSpacer, so if anybody fancies getting involved with prototype building, please get in touch.

(got all the bits: Bluetooth Ardurino, Bluetooth chip, RF, sensors, shields etc!)

Howard

[Nick Leaton]

The reason why I like the idea of kevlar, is that ages ago I made a small kevlar/carbon fibre bracket for a camera. To trim it up afterwards was unbelieveably hard. Angle grinders will go through glass fiber and carbon like its nothing there. Kevlar? It's tough. You can take the matrix out, but that still leaves the threads. Now the other part is that its light. A light bike chain would be heaven.

However, making a bike chain out of composites isn't easy. I can't think of an easy way of manufacturing it. First you make half the number of individual links. That's the easy bit. Now you have to make links that join them together. That's far harder. 

If you've any clever ideas, I'm interested. 

--
Nick

[Nick Leaton]

From the electronics side, there are two options.

1. The alarm when the bike is moved. 

How about low power, turns on with a tilt switch. Then checks via gps if moved, and triggers an alarm.

2. The same, but passive. Same as a car tracker. Wifi or text with the location, but no alarm. Might not deter, but might get you the bike back. 

--
Nick

[Simon Howes]

I always though an armoured guard with a spike on it, and designed that it clamped over the seat and held onto the saddle with a locking collet would be effective :)

It'd stop the seat being nicked too, and look quite comical

[Nick Johnson]

It also says:

The winning innovation will be the one that results in the longest time to steal the bike with a minimum threshold of five minutes.

I don't think they'll allow you to come running out and tackle the person attempting to 'steal' the bike for the test as a preventative measure, somehow.

-Nick 

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

Why is there no standard plugin to frame sat tracking, its done with cars and just needs to be built into the frame and with a charging port, how much battery can you get into a bike frame, lots it would last a year maybe?

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[Nick Leaton]

Hence you need to not track until you get movement. That way your power consumption is down. 

--
Nick

[Nick Johnson]

I've seen a bike that has front and tail lights with battery integrated into the tubes. You could fit a fair bit in, but GPSes use a lot of power. Also, anything with a GPS and a cellular modem is going to be pretty expensive, especially in small quantities.

Honestly, the best prototyping platform is probably a cheap Android phone. It's got accelerometers and gyros built in, has a GPS, a cellular radio and a battery, and runs your own code.

-Nick

[Nick Johnson]

It will take a while for a GPS to get a lock from a cold start, though. Unless you stop the thief the moment they start moving it, it's too late. If it's gone 5 meters, they're probably already _on_ the bike, and thus able to outdistance you anyway.

-Nick

[Önder Vincent Koç]

It differs allot from bikes to bikes as bikes come in all shapes and sizes.

I think alarms as such are pointless as even if it was ditched it would be going off say when im abroad and wont fix the problem. Also id say that the aduino with bt to a phone is not that great as i usually have it locked in an area and walk way away from it... say work or shopping or somewhere in a park someplace, i wont allways have phone battery or be able to be in reaching distance.

Can we not use RF/CB something along those lines which has a far longer range and more practical to work with to alert the user?

On 23 August 2012 16:45, Paul Randle-Jolliffe <pa...@patrocinium.eu> wrote:

[Howard]

reckon to make the sensor unit as small as possible with a decent power source, then give it to the cyclist to attach wherever they fancy (using tape /Velcro), say under the seat might be the best hiding place, 

re. GPS trackers: 

http://www.integratedtrackers.com/GPSTrack/

[Howard]

hmm, interesting, so say an Android phone is used as the sensor-unit (instead of Ardurino+sensors+BT), how would the program be built - using an app - via the Android Developer Toolkit thing?

you reckon that's easier than the Arduino route?!

from a conversation at the weekend, it was suggested that using a Raspberry Pi could be easier (more plug+play!) than Arduino, 

[Howard]

hey Vinny,

RF deffo has potential, I bought an example of such from Taiwan,

http://t-plan.en.alibaba.com/product/466318565-210353574/Bicycle_Alarm.html

It was a bit naff/rubbish, but the range was very impressive, eg. it alerted me of anybody going near my bicycle whilst I was inside Hackspace, with my bicycle parked outside Hackspace on those metal bars.

My view is that an alerter is only useful if you're within close enough distance to get to the bicycle quickly, hence BT might actually be good enough, especially if it gets longer range in new iterations (e.g. the new iPhone i've heard),

Howard

[Eugene Nadyrshin]

I actually got a basic $3.5 alarm from DealExtreme for a friend who kept getting his bikes nicked from Sutton station, ever since he put the alarm on he's not had a bike stolen, so they do work.

Bluetooth range is too puny, I tried the nordic nRF24 modules on tuesday running at 250Kbps and 8bit CRC and I didn't even manage to walk half way to the stairwell from the hackspace door before the signal was cut (hackspace is possibly the worst environment for 2.4Ghz signal, but still a good test).

I want to try one of those 433Mhz modules to see how much range I could get out of them even 300bps is more than sufficient as all that's needed is a keep-alive and basic signal if it's being stolen or not.. Sol mentioned he got to the edge of the car park with it without much optimisation so it looks promising (if anyone have a pair I can use to test please let me know!)

I think the GPS, Android, Pi solutions are an overkill to be honest and I think it makes sense to get a simplest prototype that does the job well. A mate of mine had a motorbike stolen with a tracker fitted and police did nothing (was in a dodgy area apparently), I doubt they will even bother with a push bike!

[Alexander Halford]

Has anybody considered powering the device from a battery charged by a small dynamo attached to one of the wheels? It's the same way they used to power the old incandescent bike headlights.

[Nick Johnson]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Howard <ha.mitche...@gmail.com> wrote:

hmm, interesting, so say an Android phone is used as the sensor-unit (instead of Ardurino+sensors+BT), how would the program be built - using an app - via the Android Developer Toolkit thing?

you reckon that's easier than the Arduino route?!

Given that you want an accelerometer, GPS, battery and cellular(?) radio, you're not going to find those in a package anywhere cheaper than a cheap Android cellphone.

And yes, you'd simply write an app in Java using the ADK that does what you want it to.

-Nick

[Big Will]

I should think a good way to stop a bike getting nicked, is to put effectively a plank of something alongside the bike, which has the required grooves to allow the bike bits to fit inside it and get stuck in a stationary position.

Then the plank had bits of the edges/outer sides to  allow it to get stuck when it is taken off the bike rack.  Ti neutralise the lock mechanism, turn a key inside it and all the locking mechanisms are released and also it can now shrink down inside itself to become about 6 inches long and be transportable.

No electronics, just a series of mechanical levers.

[Nick Johnson]

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Eugene Nadyrshin <ment...@gmail.com> wrote:

I actually got a basic $3.5 alarm from DealExtreme for a friend who kept getting his bikes nicked from Sutton station, ever since he put the alarm on he's not had a bike stolen, so they do work.

I feel obliged to point out that correlation does not imply causation.

 

Bluetooth range is too puny, I tried the nordic nRF24 modules on tuesday running at 250Kbps and 8bit CRC and I didn't even manage to walk half way to the stairwell from the hackspace door before the signal was cut (hackspace is possibly the worst environment for 2.4Ghz signal, but still a good test).

I want to try one of those 433Mhz modules to see how much range I could get out of them even 300bps is more than sufficient as all that's needed is a keep-alive and basic signal if it's being stolen or not.. Sol mentioned he got to the edge of the car park with it without much optimisation so it looks promising (if anyone have a pair I can use to test please let me know!)

I think the GPS, Android, Pi solutions are an overkill to be honest and I think it makes sense to get a simplest prototype that does the job well. A mate of mine had a motorbike stolen with a tracker fitted and police did nothing (was in a dodgy area apparently), I doubt they will even bother with a push bike!

I'm just responding to people who want something with a GPS in it - once you start adding more sensors, it quickly becomes cheaper to use a phone as your prototyping platform. In fact, even if you want a more basic system such as you're suggesting, using a phone is probably a good and cheap way to build initial prototypes anyway.

[IrradiatedHaggis]

I rather think an immoblization device of some sort would work... If you could stop the pedals or the wheels from turning that would be a pretty good deterrant... In addition to a regular lock.

Obviously a solenoid would take too much power... However maybe a small motor driving a leadscrew or a rack-and pinion of some sort to extend a bar into the the spokes of the main pedal sprocket...  It would still need to be charged from time to time, but I think it could be made to be fairly low power.

Have a usb-like connector (but not usb) with 4 pins. Two power and two data. The user carries a usb-like key that plugs into the bike's frame in a hidden spot. This key would have a ery small low power microcontroller in it. Upon powering up (by inserting it into the frame) it simply transmits a preprogrammed code over the comm lines.  This unlocks the unit. So when the key is removed the device automatically extends the locking arm to immoblize the pedals. When the key is inserted the locking arm is retracted. If built into the frame solidly I think this locking arm would be difficult to defeat mechanically. Electronically you would need to know the unique number and program that into another microcontroller... 

Obviously you would combine this with a normal lock. Power consumption would only be when locking or unlocking, so it could last quite a while on a charge, but still there is power to think about... Solar or wheel-generator based mechanisms could work...

Hmmm... Anyway, that's my thoughs.

Cheers,

Troy




Sent from Samsung tablet

[David Murphy]

take seat. put it in your bag. make sure the tube the seat sits on is very sharp.

 

leave one pedal loose.

 

to recover bike follow the trail of blood.

[Nick Johnson]

The problem with any solution like this is that bikes are light and portable. A thief can pick up the bike, put it on their shoulder, and walk off with it - or load it into the back of a van - and attack the security mechanisms at their leisure.

I think any workable solution has to ultimately involve attaching your bike to a stationary object.

-Nick

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:49 PM, IrradiatedHaggis <hs_...@codemaven.me> wrote:

[Önder Vincent Koç]

Troy i think u might of hit the jackpot here :)

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[Mark Simpkins]

Which is where a lot of the bikeoff.org work concentrated on. Making the bikes more reliant on complex tech does not work so well when you can easily move it and work on the mechanisms. 

The Vexed/Biomega folding bike was interesting, the lock was part of the bike frame, if it was cut it made the bike essentially useless. You could get it fixed, but only at certain places and had to prove ownership etc.. again, still flaws... 

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[IrradiatedHaggis]

I agree. You will never make a bike unstealable... But you can make it not worth the effort. If a person needs to have a vehicle to load it on to then they're a serious organsized theif and not an opportunist.  Those organised theives are going to target expensive high-value bikes and probably collect a few in a day and then take them back to work on.... But if they have to spend hours 'hacking' a bike, is it worth it? I think 90% of your theifs are opportunits who will give up if a bike doesn't move.... And those serious theives are going to be looking at whether something is worth their time to attack, or move on... Chances are they might grab the bike, take it away, and realize that they can't easily 'fix' it and so just dump it somewhere.... But I think ultimately they'd look for easy targets and skip ones that they know will take effort.

It needs a blinking LED to indicate when the immmobilier is engaged.

[Nick Johnson]

Did I mention I'm very happy with my TiGr lock? That is the sort of innovation I think has real promise: doing something about improving on the weight and/or versatility of a standard D-Lock.

-Nick

[Howard Alistair Mitchell]

thanks Nick,

downloading now (for Ubuntu),

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html

ps. components planned to use would be only:

movement sensor + Arduino + BT 

(cellular and GPS not needed)

-Nick

[Howard]

:-)

be good if they did!

otherwise, the project could best achieve being rewarded as a running-up innovation:

Judges may also decide to recognise a runner up innovation or innovations at their discretion.

[Tim Reynolds]

Aerosolise capsicum, hydrogen sulphide and some kind of paint. Tarred and feathered.

[Gavin Bell]

to generate a steady 5V 500 milliAmp feed from a dynamo is actually a lot of electronics
Also tyre dynamos are a bit rubbish.
A nice SON hub dynamo on the other hand is a good thing, but they are expensive
see commercial version http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/reecharge-power-pack
instructables version http://www.instructables.com/id/Voltage-Regulated-5-V-Bicycle-Dynamo-Light-USB/

>> ha.mitche...@gmail.com
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>>
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>>
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>> Paul Randle-Jolliffe Esq
>> Practicing Principal (Advocate & Public Interest Intervener)

>> PATROCINIUM INTERVENTUS

>> Isle of Wight, England.
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>

[Gavin Bell]

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2009136801 is mostly along the lines of what you suggest unfortunately

[Toby Catlin]

I was wondering if you could use a can of expanding foam to act a theft deterrent. When stolen the canister would trigger and fill a bag full of foam. The bag would encase the bike making it harder to move and a pain to resell. The owner would have to spend time cutting it all away and probably use a solvent to clean it up properly. The major issue i can see if how you would trigger it correctly. Once it has moved any significant distance it is probably too late and you would want someone else to just shake the bike to trigger it for fun.

toby

[David Murphy]

kids would trigger the cans for shits and giggles

[Toby Catlin]

Thats what i meant to say, you would need a way to prevent it being fired inadvertently. This is a problem with most anti theft alarms.

t

[Nick Johnson]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:24 PM, NKT <yt...@discreetsecuritysolutions.com> wrote:

I don't come down very often, but when I do it's for the lockpicking sessions, helping John.

Anyway, if you haven't watched it, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdugFzCi24 for an interesting TV program on the problem. The footage of undercover officers jumping on bike thieves is entertaining, certainly!

The NESTA challenge is, in my opinion, almost silly. The 5 minute attack test is far beyond what anything like this has to stop in the real world. The sheer amount of steel you would need to stop a simple disc cutter for even a minute is insane. I looked at the TiGr lock, and despite the fudged test with the disc cutter, it looks really nice. (However, any thief with a clue would have cut it on the flat side and so been through it in under a minute.)

Not sure I follow. Aren't both sides flat? I'd be amazed and disappointed if it's possible to cut through it in under a minute by anything practical - and possibly willing to sacrifice my own lock to see it happen.

 

If you don't lock it down, it'll get lifted. In Cambridge some years ago, I had a bike stolen. It was left overnight outside halls, and was gone in the morning, as was every other even halfway viable bike. All that remained were two that had been stamped to bits what looked like a decade before. There were no lock remains, either - the thieves were smart enough to take the bits of the locks as well as over 30 bikes.

What you need is something different, and a not-to-great looking bike. If the attacker doesn't know what it is, then they'll be stuck for longer, and likely skip it and go to the next bike over.

Sure the tracker systems are a good idea, but most people won't pay out the money for it week after week, and once common, it'll be jammed just as the car thieves do, or they will just dump the bike for a few days to be sure the battery is flat before moving it on. Also, a pocket signal detector from Maplin will sniff the RF trivially, tipping your hand too early.

Your basic attack tools are the croppers. Sometimes they will use a car jack or jaws of life or something, but most thieves prefer the fast and quiet cheap cut. Stopping that is the main point. Also, you will never stop a disc cutter.

Anyway, that's some basic thoughts. If anyone wants to talk about this stuff in detail, we could have an hour at the lockpicking session next month. Plenty of security brains there, and probably me next time around too.

[Steff]

On 28 August 2012 17:24, NKT <yt...@discreetsecuritysolutions.com> wrote:
>
> Your basic attack tools are the croppers. Sometimes they will use a car jack
> or jaws of life or something, but most thieves prefer the fast and quiet
> cheap cut. Stopping that is the main point. Also, you will never stop a disc
> cutter.

I have often wondered about that. Replacing the PVC coating that
covers a typical D-lock with something containing kevlar fibres might
make the process more irritating, along the same lines as
chainsaw-protective trousers. I'm not sure how much you'd need to
inconvenience a typical grinder though, and obviously it'd be no good
if it made the shackle too bulky.

S

[Simon Howes]

What about something like a plastic and aluminium cover over the plastic? Horrible stuff that blocks grinder disks and gums up and impedes bolt cutters?

[Alex Pounds]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:24:27AM -0700, NKT wrote:
> There were no lock remains, either - the thieves were smart enough to take
> the bits of the locks as well as over 30 bikes.

I didn't follow this bit. Smart enough? How come? Seems like the only
thing more incriminating than being caught with a van full of bikes is
being caught with a van full of bikes & cut locks.

--
Alex Pounds
Web Developer & Photographer

http://alexpounds.com/ | http://ethicsgirls.com/

[Steff]

On 28 August 2012 18:31, Alex Pounds <al...@alexpounds.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:24:27AM -0700, NKT wrote:
>> There were no lock remains, either - the thieves were smart enough to take
>> the bits of the locks as well as over 30 bikes.
>
> I didn't follow this bit. Smart enough? How come? Seems like the only
> thing more incriminating than being caught with a van full of bikes is
> being caught with a van full of bikes & cut locks.

It is alleged (though I've never heard any convincing detail) that cut
locks have been matched to tools in the past, with resulting
convictions in the absence of the actual bike. Personally I'd guess at
fingerprints.

S

[Howard]

Liked the videos, thanks.

- more secured bicycled parking please TFL (instead of more Boris Bikes!), and maybe new parking products from somebody like Cycle Hoop

- more technological products please, eg. affordable, tried, tested and reviewed GPS trackers (from Integrated Trackers maybe)

On Tuesday, 28 August 2012 17:24:27 UTC+1, NKT wrote:

I don't come down very often, but when I do it's for the lockpicking sessions, helping John.

Anyway, if you haven't watched it, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdugFzCi24 for an interesting TV program on the problem. The footage of undercover officers jumping on bike thieves is entertaining, certainly!

The NESTA challenge is, in my opinion, almost silly. The 5 minute attack test is far beyond what anything like this has to stop in the real world. The sheer amount of steel you would need to stop a simple disc cutter for even a minute is insane. I looked at the TiGr lock, and despite the fudged test with the disc cutter, it looks really nice. (However, any thief with a clue would have cut it on the flat side and so been through it in under a minute.)

If you don't lock it down, it'll get lifted. In Cambridge some years ago, I had a bike stolen. It was left overnight outside halls, and was gone in the morning, as was every other even halfway viable bike. All that remained were two that had been stamped to bits what looked like a decade before. There were no lock remains, either - the thieves were smart enough to take the bits of the locks as well as over 30 bikes.

What you need is something different, and a not-to-great looking bike. If the attacker doesn't know what it is, then they'll be stuck for longer, and likely skip it and go to the next bike over.

Sure the tracker systems are a good idea, but most people won't pay out the money for it week after week, and once common, it'll be jammed just as the car thieves do, or they will just dump the bike for a few days to be sure the battery is flat before moving it on. Also, a pocket signal detector from Maplin will sniff the RF trivially, tipping your hand too early.

Your basic attack tools are the croppers. Sometimes they will use a car jack or jaws of life or something, but most thieves prefer the fast and quiet cheap cut. Stopping that is the main point. Also, you will never stop a disc cutter.