Sugru

[Glen]

I put a box of 100 packets of Sugru in the Space with a donation tin.

Does anyone know what happened to the Sugru or the money?

Glen

[Matt Peperell]

On Sunday I saw it on the boxes of mate next to the bookshelves. I've
not been in since then, so maybe someone has more current information.

[Charles Yarnold]

Last I saw it was on the sofa near the door Sunday evening when I bought a packet.

Sol

On 13 November 2012 14:41, Glen <glen....@gmail.com> wrote:

[stephane Malenfant]

Nice, I'm running low on mine. I'll be very happy to make a donation once the pack has been located!

[SamLR]

I bought two packets on Sunday evening at about 9pm, The box was on the mate near the bookshelves where phil (I assume) had moved it to put up the desk in the corner of the main room. 

I think there were about 30 (±10, I didn't count) packets left. 

Hope that helps and that you find it all!

S

[Glen]

The box has been found.

52 packets have gone. £12.03 is in the collection tin.
As they were £1 each it's £39.97 down.

If anyone else wants Sugru I'll put them in your box.

[Simon Howes]

That sucks and is rather unexcellent :/

[David Murphy]

out of interest on average how does the club mate box do? does it get roughly as much in as the cost or does it fall short by a lot?

[Russ Garrett]

On 13 November 2012 15:20, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> out of interest on average how does the club mate box do? does it get
> roughly as much in as the cost or does it fall short by a lot?

I haven't checked recently, but we generally get 70-80% of the
expected cash from club mate sales (65% is our break-even point).

(If you do the maths, that does mean that the space is losing between
£100 and £200 per month due to under-payment.)

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Dario]

As a newbie I find this information quite upsetting... it seems (broadly generalizing) there is a bit too much "helping oneself" at the HackerSpace? I have to hope this is down to a "few bad apples" and if that is the case I think it would be appropriate to deal with it rather than letting it fester?

It's a horrible concept, I know but I really frown at the thought of being part of a "club" where some people help themselves freely to the sacrifices of others.

Sorry for the pontificating, i just can't stand egoism and bullying ;-)

Cheers
Dario

[Martin Dittus]

There's at least one alternative interpretation; let's call it "affordance" (as in, "the quality of an object, or an environment, which allows an individual to perform an action". [1])

Neither the Club Mate fridge nor the Sugru box are set up in a way that the act of donating is clearly a necessary prerequisite for the act of taking an item.

The Club Mate bottles in the fridge and the donation tin are ~ half a meter apart.

The Sugru box was an open box with (as far as I remember) instructions on the side of the box, at about hip-height; this made it easy to not spot the writing.

Both cases require a conscious effort to spot and recognise the request to donate. It is possible to misunderstand them as "ungarded" items, which in all other scenarios in the LHS is an invitation to take one for free.

(I can't wait for a functioning vending machine… :)

m.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance

[Martin Dittus]

Just to add to that -- as Russ likes to point out (iirc), it's much easier for us as an organisation to offer items and politely ask for donations than to outright sell them.

In combination with the below this means we likely won't find solutions where 100% of such items are always paid for; instead it would be advisable to anticipate some non-paying takers (just as it's plausible to expect some people to overpay; I frequently do that.)

For all those reasons I think the 70-80% Mate rate is actually pretty good; although more would be nice of course.

And I hope you all will take this to heart and keep donating! :D

m.

[Russ Garrett]

On 13 November 2012 17:05, Martin Dittus <dek...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to add to that -- as Russ likes to point out (iirc), it's much easier for us as an organisation to offer items and politely ask for donations than to outright sell them.

This is really only the case for alcohol, which we're not allowed to
sell without a license. For items where we make a profit (Club Mate
included), we still have to account for it the same way, whether we
check how much you're paying or not.

I think we need to move to having locked boxes for all of our
donations tins, and see how much that improves things.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Nick Johnson]

I think thinking of things in terms of affordances is right on the mark.

For instance, if the sugru was in a container that you had to put a coin in to open (or just a round coin-like object), like those old fashioned street corner newspaper vending machines, what do you suppose the payment rate would be? I'm guessing it would be very high, despite one person theoretically being able to take everything after inserting one washer.

-Nick

[Dario]

Well, I must say I admire your generosity and principles Martin!

I will swallow my own narrow-mindedness and try to adopt a more positive outlook on people and sharing... 70/80% is indeed a good return rate... the Sugru maybe less but there's hope! ;-)

Regards
Dario

[Martin Dittus]

That would be a very nice model for selling all kinds of things! Such boxes might also be much less mechanically problematic than an actual vending machine. Plus it wouldn't require specialist help if you wanted to re-stock one.

m.

[Ian Henderson]

I was planning to pick up a few packs of Sugru tonight (and pay for them)

Does this mean it's no longer available?

BTW I thing it was moved last week because of the work on the old kitchen area

On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 14:41:23 UTC, Glen wrote:

[Fahad Sadah]

If, as I think you're suggesting, people are *stealing money from the donation tins*, this is a completely different kettle of fish to people helping themselves to some Club Mate or Sugru, and sounds like something we need to address 

Would it be worth moving the Hackspace/Beer/Drinks/Club Mate donation box back into the main room, where it could remain under the eye of the CCTV camera?

[Morris]

The CCTV isn't for security.

--
>
++++++++++[>+>+++>++
+++++>++++++++++<<<<
-]>>>+++++++.>++++++
+++++.+++..---------
.++++++++++.<<+++.<.

[Penguin]

Policy statements about why the CCTV exists aside, I think having the donations box and any "honour box" help yourself stuff like the sugru packets within sight of the CCTV is a "most excellent" suggestion. Let's pose it as a social experiment and measure the results.

Matt

[Russ Garrett]

On 14 November 2012 07:28, Penguin <mfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Policy statements about why the CCTV exists aside, I think having the donations box and any "honour box" help yourself stuff like the sugru packets within sight of the CCTV is a "most excellent" suggestion.

They've always been in sight of the cameras. How would you tell from
the footage if someone is putting money in or taking money out of the
box? Moreover, how would you know when to check?

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[David Murphy]

well if you're fairly sure someone didn't put any money in the box but you can't be certain if they did while you weren't looking it allows you to go back and check.

[SamLR]

Is sugru purchasing something the space itself can do? I wonder if some of the money is ending up in the general donation tin (and/or people not that it's for sale, not free). 

It seems sugru is pretty popular and if the space buys it no one gets hit when the tins come up short.

S

[Russ Garrett]

On 14 November 2012 10:24, SamLR <sam.lind...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is sugru purchasing something the space itself can do? I wonder if some of
> the money is ending up in the general donation tin (and/or people not that
> it's for sale, not free).
>
> It seems sugru is pretty popular and if the space buys it no one gets hit
> when the tins come up short.

Given the return rate that's been seen on the sugru, I don't see why
the space should subsidise it. I'm happy for the space to supply them
once we have the vending machine working.


--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[SamLR]

my point was more wondering if people were putting money for sugru in the donations tin not realising they were separate. 

Certainly once (ha!) the vending machine is up and running it should stock sugru

S

[Mark Steward]

Yet again, it comes down to the vending machine.  Do we know what's blocking it now?

Can I sudo look at it?

[Charles Yarnold]

We have yet another coin mech coming for it this Friday.

[cepm...@yahoo.co.uk]

tl,dr
You know who you are, Pay up.....



The instructions on the box were very explicit and the collecting box was
taped prominently to the inside of the box. There is no reason at all that
anyone might misconstrue the necessity or means for payment.

Glen had the goodness to fork out £100 from his own pocket for this
stuff so that we could have the convenience of not having to ponce about
ordering it on-line or traipsing about the few suppliers. It is
un-excellent in the extreme that he should have the piss taken out of him
in this way.

I would suggest that anyone who "accidentally" forgot to pay for the goods
taken put suitable payment into an envelope for Glen and leave it in the
mailbox. You know who you are, man up and do the right thing. In the event
that you were half-witted enough to put the money in some other place let
Glen know and he can retrieve it.

Phil

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:34:35 -0000, SamLR <sam.lind...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> my point was more wondering if people were putting money for sugru in the
> donations tin not realising they were separate.
>
> Certainly once (ha!) the vending machine is up and running it should
> stock
> sugru
>
> S

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

[cepm...@yahoo.co.uk]

There is nothing blocking it.... It was moved from behind the couch so
that there was nice easy access for hackers to get on with it`s
resurrection.

:)

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:51:25 -0000, Mark Steward <marks...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Mark Steward]

This email isn't very helpful.  Nobody is deliberately taking the piss out of Glen, and we're not here to provide a clearing-house for bulk purchases.

As we said last time, when Glen repeatedly sunk money into buying beer for the space, the simple answer is to not buy stuff and leave it on an honesty system.  It's a large cost to the purchaser and a small cost to the person who doesn't pay. Until we've got a proper system for protecting sales, you need to assume you're throwing your money away.

Mark

[Mark Steward]

To clarify: by "small cost" I mean it's a small amount on an individual level to defer paying for, and it's easy to get lost in the daily whirl of small things that never call you back.  I'm not saying this justifies anyone not paying, only that the numbers mean it's *bound* to happen.

Mark

P.S. if anyone wants to give the space a copy of http://www.schneier.com/book-lo.html, I'd love to borrow it indefinitely^W^W^W read it and give it back.

[David Murphy]

side note, who were the guys in tatty coats in the kitchen area last night taking beer but not venturing anywhere near the donation box?

[Paddy Duncan]

The same ones as last week plus a couple more....

[Kimball Johnson]

Firstly, I want to say that in general the space is great, I am not
there often, but usually when I am I have fun, I know that some people
have had some issues, but I'm not going to talk about that today.

On 14 November 2012 13:26, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> side note, who were the guys in tatty coats in the kitchen area last night
> taking beer but not venturing anywhere near the donation box?
>

No idea, was not there, but when I'm in the space you may see me doing
this, as at the beginning of the night I go to Tesco and buy a load of
beer and put it in the fridge to keep cool, then continue to take beer
out all night without the donation box being involved.

My point is you probably don't know the whole story and making
accusation on the mailing list is an excellent as taking stuff you
didn't pay for. From the outside looking at the mailing list and IRC
the space has a horrible blame culture which is not reflected in the
real life of being in the space. People need to think about more than
the small angle they see, and also think about how what they write can
appear from the outside.

Be excellent to one another.

Kimball

[David Murphy]

no. I don't think so.

I'm thinking of a couple of guys in particular who didn't even know where the fridge was so were unlikely to have stocked it earlier. 

[Paddy Duncan]

Indeed. The beer in question btw was bought by a member with money from the box..

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com [mailto:london-h...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Murphy
Sent: 14 November 2012 14:28
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Sugru

 

no. I don't think so.

[Monty]

Did you talk to them and ask? or at least ask their names?

[David Murphy]

said hi when they came in and did ask their names though I didn't remember them.
started to tell them about the space but the only thing they seemed interested in was "where's the beer". along with the dismissive grunt when I explained about the donation boxes that was pretty much the only reason I took any notice of them.

[Tim Reynolds]

Hello hackspace.

The quiet room is starting to look massively unawesome. I wish to
rectify this. This isn't a thread to blame people for leaving a mess,
half finishing projects or dumping stuff. (Not that I'm suggesting any
of that has happened, just heading it off)

I want to book the quiet room out for an entire day to tidy it up. I'm
not sure when, probably over christmas/new year as I'm off work.

We all like lists, here is a list of things I'd like to do.


* Replace all of the ceiling tiles and push the CAT5E kraken back into
the void.

* Check and replace all of the fluro tubes.

* Clean up / fill the various holes and damage to the walls.

* Paint everything non-descript B&Q value white with a bunch of rollers.

* Check and repair all of the network points. Add more if needed.

* Check and fix all of the power points. Add more if needed.

* Put some cheap Argos/IKEA/Whatever rollerblinds over the end windows
so that we can black it out for presentations.


I think thats proabably enough for now, unless anyone can think of
anything else. I was sizing stuff up last night and I think this can be
done in a day with a few hands. We can corral the chairs in the
workshop/main room and move all the tables to a central stack.

Commence comments, criticisms, and offers of help.

[Billy]

I think that the drop-down projector screen is what we're using to
cover the windows...

[Tim Reynolds]

It doesn't cover them completely, sadly.

[cepm...@yahoo.co.uk]

There is nothing blocking it.... It was moved from behind the couch so
that there was nice easy access for hackers to get on with it`s
resurrection.

:)

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:51:25 -0000, Mark Steward <marks...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Fahad Sadah]

Given the fact that we don't sell beer, but people donate money and take it, are we legally okay to (politely but assertively) eject people from the space next time this happens?

[Adrian Godwin]

On normal evenings, members always have the right to eject non-members.

On Tuesday open evenings it's more difficult, especially as donating by definition cannot be compulsory.

[cepm...@yahoo.co.uk]

A polite reminder first that the beer is actually the property of another
and that the consumer might lijke to re-imburse that person for their
goods should be sufficient to either elicit payment or at least deter
repeated unpaid consumption.

Just being called on it is most often enough to secure compliance with the
accepted norms of behaviour. If this is ignored then any member can object
to unexcellent behaviour of a guest and seek to eject said person.

Phil

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:09:34 -0000, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Ian Henderson]

Glen

I'm sorry this has not worked out the way you intended...

I for one was very grateful for the opportunity to buy Sugru at a discount. Since the facility was withdrawn due to misuse I've had to order some online and the best price I could get was 8 packets for £11

The deal offered by Glen was a great discount and I look forward to having Sugru available in the vending machine when it's available


Ian

On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 14:41:23 UTC, Glen wrote:

I put a box of 100 packets of Sugru in the Space with a donation tin.

Does anyone know what happened to the Sugru or the money?

Glen

[Jasper Wallace]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012, Tim Reynolds wrote:

> Hello hackspace.
>
> The quiet room is starting to look massively unawesome. I wish to rectify
> this. This isn't a thread to blame people for leaving a mess, half finishing
> projects or dumping stuff. (Not that I'm suggesting any of that has happened,
> just heading it off)
>
> I want to book the quiet room out for an entire day to tidy it up. I'm not
> sure when, probably over christmas/new year as I'm off work.

Thanks for doing this, it's great to see more work happening on improving
the space!

> We all like lists, here is a list of things I'd like to do.
>
>
> * Replace all of the ceiling tiles and push the CAT5E kraken back into the
> void.
>
> * Check and replace all of the fluro tubes.
>
> * Clean up / fill the various holes and damage to the walls.
>
> * Paint everything non-descript B&Q value white with a bunch of rollers.
>
> * Check and repair all of the network points. Add more if needed.

Q3 and Q4 at least don't work. I'm not sure where they go, we need to get
a tone tracer for the space. We've got a good network tester already.

> * Check and fix all of the power points. Add more if needed.
>
> * Put some cheap Argos/IKEA/Whatever rollerblinds over the end windows so that
> we can black it out for presentations.
>
>
> I think thats proabably enough for now, unless anyone can think of anything
> else. I was sizing stuff up last night and I think this can be done in a day
> with a few hands. We can corral the chairs in the workshop/main room and move
> all the tables to a central stack.
>
> Commence comments, criticisms, and offers of help.
>

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[Clare Greenhalgh]

I am happy to come and help (I am probably just useful to help fill holes and paint) but I hope that will be ok
Noko

[Tim Reynolds]

> I am happy to come and help (I am probably just useful to help fill
> holes and paint) but I hope that will be ok
> Noko

Not a problem! All help appreciated, thankyou. With a few of us doing
the painting it should be over in an hour or two.

> Q3 and Q4 at least don't work. I'm not sure where they go, we need to
> get
> a tone tracer for the space. We've got a good network tester already.

If you can link a cheap-ish one that'll do the job I'll pick it up. Is
there any room on our patch panels for more outlets?

> Thanks for doing this, it's great to see more work happening on
> improving
> the space!

Not a problem, I've decided to start rule 4'ing things hard instead of
complaining about them. Momentum ftw.

[SamLR]

Can I suggest that we get rid of some of the whiteboard and/or stick them to the walls? I like having whiteboards but I think they're breeding behind the desks and some of them don't seem to be getting used. They don't take up much space but they do block access to the sockets on the walls

S

PS happy to help if I'm able to

[Tim Reynolds]

Good plan. I'll take a look at them on Friday. What do people think
about having as much whiteboard space as possible?

On 2012-11-15 11:57, SamLR wrote:
> Can I suggest that we get rid of some of the whiteboard and/or stick
> them to the walls? I like having whiteboards but I think they're
> breeding behind the desks and some of them don't seem to be getting
> used. They don't take up much space but they do block access to the
> sockets on the walls
>
> S
>
> PS happy to help if I'm able to
>
> On 15 November 2012 09:38, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> I am happy to come and help (I am probably just useful to help fill
>>> holes and paint) but I hope that will be ok
>>>  Noko
>>
>> Not a problem! All help appreciated, thankyou. With a few of us
>> doing the painting it should be over in an hour or two.
>>
>>> Q3 and Q4 at least don't work. I'm not sure where they go, we need
>>> to get
>>> a tone tracer for the space. We've got a good network tester
>>> already.
>>
>> If you can link a cheap-ish one that'll do the job I'll pick it up.
>> Is there any room on our patch panels for more outlets?
>>
>> Tha
>>

>>> kquote>

>>> Not a problem, I've decided to start rule 4'ing things hard instead
>>> of c

>> out them. Momentum ftw.

[Kimball Johnson]

On 15 November 2012 12:08, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:
> Good plan. I'll take a look at them on Friday. What do people think about
> having as much whiteboard space as possible?

Filling the walls with whiteboards seems like an excellent plan to me,
I try to do it in every office I work in :)

Kimball

[Daithi]

If there's still any black sugru left I'd like a couple of packets. I will happily make the required donation.