Pledge Suggestions: Pyrography Machine and Kitchen-Aid Mixer

[Akki]

Yes they're totally unrelated. Besides the fact that I like them :P

First: Pyrography machine, a variable power one with replaceable wire tip for very fine work. They a little under £100 but they're fairly small and they're pretty easy to work with. I can't justify having one on a shelf at home not doing much most of the stuff for that price but I do love working with them.

Second: KitchenAid Stand Mixer. These are around £300 I think... We have a working kitchen now. Lots of people would love to have a stand mixer they could use to make cakes etc. This came up when we were discussing the making of meringue-based buttercreams which require a very long time of whipping (20 minutes if using syrup-based italian meringue method... at high speed with the mixer). It'll also make it easier to make cookie dough/cakes etc. We could make various doughs. If necessary, we could start further pledges for any add-ons.

Thoughts? me-toos? Yes/no/maybe/ask again later/reply hazy? I'm just attempting to see if there's enough support for either of these to happen. 

~Akki

[Simon Howes]

Awesome, the kitchen mixer will also aid when mixing up plaster of paris and silicon.

[Sam Kelly]

+1 for pyrography. Can't pledge more than a nominal few quid, but I think it's a good thing. Also, it'll reduce the wear on the laser cutter for small jobs.

On Sep 10, 2012 10:19 AM, "Akki" <beloved...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Adrian Godwin]

Or buy the spare pen for £30 and use with a bench power supply.

[Nick Johnson]

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Akki <beloved...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes they're totally unrelated. Besides the fact that I like them :P

First: Pyrography machine, a variable power one with replaceable wire tip for very fine work. They a little under £100 but they're fairly small and they're pretty easy to work with. I can't justify having one on a shelf at home not doing much most of the stuff for that price but I do love working with them.

Can they really do anything that the laser cutter can't?

[Dave Ingram]

On 10/09/12 11:03, Nick Johnson wrote:

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Akki <beloved...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes they're totally unrelated. Besides the fact that I like them :P

First: Pyrography machine, a variable power one with replaceable wire tip for very fine work. They a little under £100 but they're fairly small and they're pretty easy to work with. I can't justify having one on a shelf at home not doing much most of the stuff for that price but I do love working with them.

Can they really do anything that the laser cutter can't?

My guess would be that they are hand-held and so they can be used on curved surfaces, for example.

[Sam Kelly]

Yes - also, they allow freeform work, they're a lot quicker to set up
for a job, they take much less training, and they're quicker & more
flexible for doing areas than the cutter's raster mode is.

--
Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/

That's it. We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger
dictionary. - Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.

[Kimball Johnson]

On 10 September 2012 10:22, Simon Howes <simonh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Awesome, the kitchen mixer will also aid when mixing up plaster of paris and
> silicon.
>

I assume this was a troll, but seriously food equipment should not be
used for this.

Kimball

[Bob Clough]

Kenwood Chef mixers are cheaper, have metal gearing, stronger motors, and the accessories are available in the UK.

Kitchenaids have a 300% markup over here for no apparent reason.

[Akki]

On Monday, 10 September 2012 11:03:31 UTC+1, Nick Johnson wrote:

Can they really do anything that the laser cutter can't?

 

Why use a pen or pencil to draw something when you can CAD it? Why paint when you can photograph? Different strokes for different folks. I'm not very good at drawing on computers for the lasercutter... Also you could use the pyrography machine on finished/built pieces that won't fit in the lasercutter.
 
artag - I'm still not keen on the cheap woodburning pens. They're not nearly as delicate to work with as the wire loop machines.

Example machine (unless someone wants to suggest otherwise): http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-variable-output-woodburning-station-prod32135/  Variable voltage/temperature means you can vary how light/dark the burning is into the wood and also it works across various woods (hardwoods probably need a bit more power than cheaper soft woods).

and yes thank you Abby for the snark, it's much appreciated :P If anyone was caught doing that, it'll be out of their own pocket to pay for a brand new mixer.

I figure that the mixer is probably more likely to be fulfilled as a pledge as more people will want to use it so the cost can be spread out a bit better. I am a bit of a pain, though, as I probably won't pledge towards it... as I already own one and have done for about 10 years. I'll happily pledge a bit towards the pyrography machine.

[Akki]

I knew this would come up... KitchenAids have metal gearing, you can get a stronger motor kitchenaid (the drop lever bowl type Professional Range which actually may be another £100) and my biggest beef with the Kenwood Chefs is you can't scrape your spatula clean on the beater - it just bloody falls off and it's annoying. If you scrap stuff onto the beater, it goes back into the mix where it belongs rather than scraping it on the side of the bowl and then having to shove it back down into the mix.
In recent years there's quite a lot of accessories available in the UK for the Kitchenaid mixers. Or y'know, poke me before I go to the US and I'll pick up some accessories there (to be honest they're not really any cheaper though).

[Sam Kelly]

The best pyrographer I know[1] uses one of these (
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/pyroinfo/pyinfo.htm ) and it seems to be a
really good design for around the same price as the Axminster one.

[1] http://www.scorchpyro.co.uk/Techniques.html

[Adrian Godwin]

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Akki <beloved...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> artag - I'm still not keen on the cheap woodburning pens. They're not nearly
> as delicate to work with as the wire loop machines.
>
> Example machine (unless someone wants to suggest otherwise):
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-variable-output-woodburning-station-prod32135/
> Variable voltage/temperature means you can vary how light/dark the burning
> is into the wood and also it works across various woods (hardwoods probably
> need a bit more power than cheaper soft woods).
>

No, I meant the wire loop type. I don't think you can get enough
finger control with a soldering iron, because you can't hold it near
enough to the tip.

I was thinking of a spare wire-loop handle like this one :

http://www.peterchild.co.uk/osc/spare-pen-p-30.html

Or, of course, his complete set - if you only buy a pen, it will need
a fairly chunky power supply, I'd think at least 5A and ours our
mostly 2-3A.

The Axminster one looks the same as this one on ebay for quite a lot less :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wetekom-Hot-Wire-loop-Pyrography-Station-Var-20-40W-German-Quality-BNIB-/180955643052?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item2a21cbfcac

-adrian

[Nigel Worsley]

> Or buy the spare pen for �30 and use with a bench power supply.

I don't think any of the bench supplies in the space are up to the job, the suggested
unit supplies 30W at only 1.6V, that is nearly 20 amps!

Nigle

[Nigel Worsley]

> The best pyrographer I know[1] uses one of these

> http://www.peterchild.co.uk/pyroinfo/pyinfo.htm

The big advantage of that machine is that it uses wire off a reel to make the tips, this
will be far cheaper than buying premade plug in ones needed by the Axminster.

Nigle

[Adrian Godwin]

True, i did a quick test with 22SWG wire and a 3A power supply, it got
nowhere near hot enough.

We could probably modify one of the 50A 5V supplies but that turns it
into a project, and someone has to do it ..

-adrian

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I'm assuming it was a troll too. But it's still going to happen. :(

[Simon Howes]

Well, I wasnt suggesting mixing paint!
I do actually use my kenwood chef at home for mixing plaster - its absolutely fantastic for this and once the plaster is dry you just crack it out. It leaves the stainless bowl really clean.

I'm tempted to use it to mix silicon too as mixing silicon is an utterly hideous job. It peels back cleanly too once dry, but the horrible, horrible thing with silicon is the dribbles that dont get the catalyst added to them. They never dry and nothing works to clean them up. Not soap, or acetone, or water. You just have to kind of smear them about with paper towels. Yeugh.

That and the catalyst is nasty. Probably want seperate bowl and mixer for silicon.

God only knows what the noobhax will try to mix with it.
Fiberglass resin? /trollface

[Dave Ingram]

On 10/09/12 13:25, Simon Howes wrote:
> [snip]

>
> God only knows what the noobhax will try to mix with it.
> Fiberglass resin? /trollface
>

Sounds to me like a good reason for a big sign saying "FOR FOOD ONLY".


D

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

And/or a sacrificial workshop machine for mixing non-food items. Or
perhaps that would just encourage the idea.

[Billy]

Do like the scales and the hot plates. Have one set of equipment for
food, and another for the workshop.

Use the frame/motor for everything, and the accessories for the
specific purposes. Make sure they are clearly labelled, so they don't
get mixed up...

+1 for the pyrometer.

I like fire.... :))



On Sep 10, 1:35 pm, "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com>
wrote:

[marc - HackTheMedia]

+1 for the Kitchen Mixer

[tim_n]

gah! Just binned a kenwood chef after no-one wanted it on freecycle!

[Nick Johnson]

Really? Plaster of paris is non-toxic and water soluble. In fact, it's even used in some food products. As long as whoever uses the mixer cleans it thoroughly afterwards, I don't see the problem.

-Nick

[Akki]

Somehow the phrase "this is why we can't have nice things" comes to mind.

Nevermind.

[Nick Johnson]

Snark is a poor way to educate. If there's a concrete reason why doing something like that is bad for the mixer or for peoples health, I'd be delighted to be educated and change my mind.

-Nick

[Adrian Godwin]

The problem is with the phrase 'cleans it thoroughly afterwards'. There are many members who think responsibility ends when they complete their job. You are likely to find the beater and bowl encased in a single lump of plaster when you next want to use it. Whether that's better than finding it encased in a forgotten mouldy cakemix is a moot point.

[Nick Johnson]

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem is with the phrase 'cleans it thoroughly afterwards'. There are many members who think responsibility ends when they complete their job. You are likely to find the beater and bowl encased in a single lump of plaster when you next want to use it. Whether that's better than finding it encased in a forgotten mouldy cakemix is a moot point.

Clearly, then, the solution is to buy one and forbid people from ever using it.

Or not buy one in the first place.

-Nick

[David Murphy]

look, look, all I'm saying is: if they didn't want people using it for mixing together vodka,broken glass, sand, dye, strong acid and botulin then there would be a bigger sign naming those things individually

btw, how did someone manage to so something to the hob? I mean those things are normally pretty indestructable and last decades.

[Geekinesis]

I can't find anything that says that plaster in the form sold as an art or craft product is edible safe to be used in devices used for food preparation. Plaster in this form may contain a variety of adititives

Silicon is the same. The form we use to make silicon rubber moulds contains additives which we dont know are food safe...
You can buy food safe silicon. But this is for casting chocolate etc in its final form. I don't see anything that says its OK to mix it in a food mixer.

Silicon wouldn't be mixed properly. The parts (of 2 part silicon) that don't get mixed are very hard to remove

Why ruin a perfectly good mixer when you can buy a cheap drill attachment which does a better job on mixing plaster and silicon...pointless (assuming it was a serious suggestion)

[Sam Kelly]

Sadly, the easy availability of the proper tool is no guarantee that
it'll be used, especially in a hackspace. It may well be worth putting
up a notice with "I am a kitchen utensil. If you want to mix up
anything you aren't going to eat, use this drill attachment [picture]
instead."

[Mike]

Some people would phrase this question "why buy a cheap drill attachment
which does a better job on mixing plaster and silicaon when you can ruin
a perfectly good mixer?"

Mike.

[Simon Howes]

Have you ever *tried* the drill mixer attachment?
Bucket spins about, you gotta kinda grip it with your shins, shit gets flung everywhere, drill twists in your arms and it still does only a mediocre job at mixing.

Plaster in my Kenwood is amazing - perfect perfect mixing because of the planetary motion.

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[Mark Steward]

What reasonable (read: non-pedantic-obsessive) person would write such a sign?  When trying to make it easy for people to do the right thing, assume people are lazy and don't read signs anyway.

Mark

[Tim Reynolds]

Two pledges. Two mixers. Bolt one down in the kitchen and one down in the workshop.

Two mixers enter, one mixer leaves. Who run hackertown? Jonty run hackertown. 

[Monty]

Just like how we had two hobs, one marked for workshop and one marked for food use in kitchen yet both would end up in the workshop because someone could never be bothered to find the correct hob and felt they knew better than any of the signs/warnings/stickers?

[Mike]

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 01:16:58PM +0100, Mark Steward wrote:
> What reasonable (read: non-pedantic-obsessive) person would write such a
> sign? When trying to make it easy for people to do the right thing, assume
> people are lazy and don't read signs anyway.
>
>

What's needed is an Arduino based system to detect the contents of the
mixer and eletrocute the person filling it, should it fail to be on the
prescribed list.

Mike.

[Russ Garrett]

On 11 September 2012 13:48, Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:
> What's needed is an Arduino based system to detect the contents of the
> mixer and eletrocute the person filling it, should it fail to be on the
> prescribed list.

Hi Mike,

This kind of pointless bikeshedding on the mailing list is
unproductive and simply results in people unsubscribing from the list,
which means they don't see important messages.

Please help us by keeping the tone on the list positive and productive, thanks!

Cheers,

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Tim Reynolds]

Marked != permanently affixed. I'll concede the "industrial unit full of tools" point in advance, but that's a social problem. It sounds like we need two mixers, be it a better drill attachment or whatever. 

[Geekinesis]

Argos does sell some really cheap mixers. Probably useless for cake mix but perfect for plaster.

I have used drill attachments for plaster and it's only messy because plaster is messy whatever is used to mix it. I haven't had a bucket spinaround but that's because I use a big plastic bin.

How about we use the mill or drill press with a mixer paddle and a plastic bucket to make cakes and mix plaster. Solves both problems.

[Akki]

I've added a pledge page for the pyrography machine

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Pledges/Pyrography_Machine

I don't think the Hackspace is mature enough to not misuse tools, judging by the discussions here and other previous ones, like the one regarding the use/sharpening of chisels, so there will be no mixer. No one would be able to trust the food safety of one after this discussion.

It was a nice thought, though.

~Akki

[Simon Howes]

On Sep 11, 2012 2:27 PM, "Geekinesis" <geeki...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> How about we use the mill or drill press with a mixer paddle and a plastic bucket to make cakes and mix plaster. Solves both problems.

Actually this solves a third problem - because of the much higher speed and torque afforded by the milling machine there is no risk of the machine stalling, it will readily mix, spin the bucket at high speed and pull in hair, clothing and hopefully whoever was stupid enough to do this.

Additionally if plaster was being mixed it should make  cleanup easier when it comes time to wash what remains of the operator out of the machine.

[booyaa]

bump!

[Adrian Godwin]

Thread necromancy.

In disgust at failing to buy any of the nice CNC kit in a recent auction, I put a bid on a pyrography machine. It's an older model of the Peter Child machine. I hadn't even looked at it so I hope it works, but I guess there's not a lot to go wrong.

Happy to take a few contributions if any of the pledgers want to, but it only cost about £30.

--
 
 

[Akki]

Well we have enough pledges to cover that. I'm happy to give up my money when I next see you.

Squee! I'm excited :D

~Akki