The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high quality locks.
I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys.
At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses and organisations and the police. We're a major local community organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that working with others is a key part of the puzzle.
It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how to wield cameras and edit in house.
We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)
Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if needs be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)
On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:37:21 AM UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:
> The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally > untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not > returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, > having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that > disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up > outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about > 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high > quality locks.
> I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off > down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before > I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, > cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been > openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, > and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response > was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to > allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the > space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable > bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent > community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at > the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was > offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by > the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys.
> At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to respond > to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now where it > seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an > unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting > operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and > co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I > personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like > the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses > and organisations and the police. We're a major local community > organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I > think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive > problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. > Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves > ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that > working with others is a key part of the puzzle.
On Monday, 22 October 2012 03:47:15 UTC+1, 930913 wrote:
> It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy > enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to > afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in > terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able > to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering > operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be > enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how > to wield cameras and edit in house.
> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the > police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with > a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with > Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before > catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. > If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) > hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have > a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)
> Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if needs > be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other > interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:37:21 AM UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:
>> The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally >> untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not >> returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, >> having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that >> disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up >> outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about >> 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high >> quality locks.
>> I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off >> down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before >> I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, >> cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been >> openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, >> and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response >> was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to >> allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the >> space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable >> bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent >> community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at >> the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was >> offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by >> the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys.
>> At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to >> respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now >> where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an >> unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting >> operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and >> co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I >> personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like >> the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses >> and organisations and the police. We're a major local community >> organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I >> think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive >> problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. >> Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves >> ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that >> working with others is a key part of the puzzle.
On Monday, 22 October 2012 03:47:15 UTC+1, 930913 wrote:
> It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy > enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to > afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in > terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able > to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering > operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be > enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how > to wield cameras and edit in house.
> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the > police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with > a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with > Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before > catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. > If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) > hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have > a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)
> Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if needs > be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other > interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:37:21 AM UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:
>> The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally >> untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not >> returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, >> having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that >> disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up >> outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about >> 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high >> quality locks.
>> I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off >> down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before >> I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, >> cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been >> openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, >> and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response >> was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to >> allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the >> space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable >> bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent >> community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at >> the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was >> offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by >> the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys.
>> At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to >> respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now >> where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an >> unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting >> operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and >> co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I >> personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like >> the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses >> and organisations and the police. We're a major local community >> organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I >> think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive >> problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. >> Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves >> ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that >> working with others is a key part of the puzzle.
> On Monday, 22 October 2012 03:47:15 UTC+1, 930913 wrote:
>> It seems that this thievery has become commonplace enough to make it easy >> enough to sting. I'm serious. If I wake up tomorrow morning, (as opposed to >> afternoon) I'll call some of the TV channels to see what they suggest in >> terms of us making a documentary about bike theft in London. Might be able >> to earn the hackspace a chunk of money if we succeed, certainly covering >> operational costs at the very least. Failing big support, there should be >> enough of us to pledge equipment for a sting bike, and to know how >> to wield cameras and edit in house.
>> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the >> police about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with >> a rigged bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with >> Panorama-esk style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before >> catching them and interviewing them before turning them over to the police. >> If we repeat this a few times, we'll a) reduce thieves at large, b) >> hopefully scare away thieves, if only to other areas, c) have >> a documentary to air (also increasing the effectiveness of b).)
>> Who's up for making a sting bike, staking out, tracking etc., and if >> needs be, presenting, filming or editing? (We can/should also get other >> interested parties involved too, as Richard suggests.)
>> On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:37:21 AM UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:
>>> The situation with bike theft around the hackspace has become totally >>> untenable. After having both of my wheels stolen last month, and having not >>> returned to the hackspace since, I cycled back for the first time today, >>> having made a substantial investment in new wheels, and all the gear that >>> disappeared with them, and much tougher security for my bike. I locked up >>> outside the turkish place on Kingsland Road and was in the space for about >>> 4 hours. Well secured in a nice busy place, wheels and frame with two high >>> quality locks.
>>> I came back to find my bike still in place, unlocked it, and rode it off >>> down Cremer street ... I actually reached for my brakes a few times before >>> I consciously realised that they weren't there! The whole rig, levers, >>> cables, calipers and blocks has been cleanly removed from by bike! I'd been >>> openly speculating on whether my bike would still be there on my return, >>> and dragged it back up to the space, mainly to let off steam. The response >>> was excellent, in particular Sam, Phil and Aden between them refused to >>> allow my bike to remain broken, and ensured that I was able to leave the >>> space with a working front brake, and actually a rather more comfortable >>> bike than I rode in on. This is a real credit to the excellent >>> community-resource that the hackspace is. I'm both incredibly pissed off at >>> the theft, and incredibly impressed by the instant practical help I was >>> offered, and the refusal that was shown to let me be taken off the road by >>> the theft. I'm hugely grateful, and very impressed, thanks guys.
>>> At the time, Sam drove home the point that the hack-space needs to >>> respond to this as a community. I agree completely. It's at the point now >>> where it seems that it's just too risky to cycle to the space, which is an >>> unacceptable situation. I've seen suggestions about bike sheds and sting >>> operations. My thought is that we need to have a somewhat consensual and >>> co-ordinated response as a community to really deal with this problem. I >>> personally think that we need to work with other interested parties, like >>> the Hackney London Cycling Campaign (who I will contact), local businesses >>> and organisations and the police. We're a major local community >>> organisation, we have over 500 members, Jonty carried the olympic flame! I >>> think we are in a position to make some real noise about this massive >>> problem, and to work with other interested people to get something done. >>> Obviously discussing physical security and how to act to deter thieves >>> ourselves can form part of a serious community response, but I think that >>> working with others is a key part of the puzzle.
On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police
> about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged
> bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk
> style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them
> and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
1. You'll get stabbed
2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
"What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the police
>> about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a rigged
>> bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with Panorama-esk
>> style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching them
>> and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
> 1. You'll get stabbed
> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
> floodlights for the bike area in the car park
And CCTV and bright floodlights have been doing such a fabulous job of preventing theft so far by the station on the street etc...
No one's going to get stabbed or arrested and nor is the thief/s going to organise a gang to terrorise the Hackspace, even if we all wear Hackspace hats and chant "Hackspace Hackspace la la la"
I appreciate your concern about getting involved but spreading fear is not very helpful IMHO.
This is a problem for the whole community and the reason people are afraid to actually stand up and do anything is due to terror spread by the media and comments such as these.
I'm not sure filming a documentary is a great idea either but I'm not in favour of spreading fear.
Getting the community involved is one thing, chasing people down vigilante style is quite another. It's not spreading fear; it's being realistic. If you're intent on doing it, I'd not mention it to the council or the police as any interest they had in helping you out would probably evaporate.
> On 22 Oct 2012, at 06:35, Jon Fautley <jon.faut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> >> wrote:
>>> We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview >>> the police
>>> about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with >>> a rigged
>>> bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with >>> Panorama-esk
>>> style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before >>> catching them
>>> and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
>> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
>> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace >> (and
>> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
>> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb >> the
>> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
>> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, >> have
>> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
>> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
>> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
>> floodlights for the bike area in the car park
> And CCTV and bright floodlights have been doing such a fabulous job
> of preventing theft so far by the station on the street etc...
> No one's going to get stabbed or arrested and nor is the thief/s
> going to organise a gang to terrorise the Hackspace, even if we all
> wear Hackspace hats and chant "Hackspace Hackspace la la la"
> I appreciate your concern about getting involved but spreading fear
> is not very helpful IMHO.
> This is a problem for the whole community and the reason people are
> afraid to actually stand up and do anything is due to terror spread > by
> the media and comments such as these.
> I'm not sure filming a documentary is a great idea either but I'm not
> in favour of spreading fear.
Firstly, I assume all these thefts have been reported to the police?
I don't think we can really condone any kind of sting action, nor do I
think that it'll do any good.
It's likely that the most productive thing that people can do is help
out looking for a new space, where we'll have enough room to provide
lockable bike storage:
> Firstly, I assume all these thefts have been reported to the police?
> I don't think we can really condone any kind of sting action, nor do I
> think that it'll do any good.
> It's likely that the most productive thing that people can do is help
> out looking for a new space, where we'll have enough room to provide
> lockable bike storage:
On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
> 1. You'll get stabbed > 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone > 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and > its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a sting operation commences? 2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief. 3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly break the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free to don chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)
On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the > police > > about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a > rigged > > bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with > Panorama-esk > > style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching > them > > and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
> 1. You'll get stabbed > 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone > 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and > its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the > number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante > justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have > a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least > "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright > floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
it'd be kinda stupid to try to chase people down.
it will only lead to some scared waster stabbing someone.
on the other hand sticking some trackers into a bike, perhaps even a tiny
camera and being able to go to the police and say "this is the address and
house number where our bike is, this is a picture of his face, this is a
picture of him stealing the bike, this is his mothers maiden name" and give
them a really easy arrest.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:43 AM, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> 1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a
> sting operation commences?
> 2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief.
> 3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly
> break the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free
> to don chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.**com> wrote:
>> > We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the
>> police
>> > about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a
>> rigged
>> > bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with
>> Panorama-esk
>> > style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching
>> them
>> > and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
>> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
>> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
>> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
>> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
>> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
>> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
>> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
>> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
>> floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
Right, I'm weighing in on this one as its personal... I've had bikes
stolen and wheels nicked and all the rest. I can assure you that it
pisses me off royally as I rely on a bike for work and my profession.
It makes me grumpy for weeks when I have no wheels. As a regular
driver of cars, vans, motorcycles and bikes in London, I've seen it
all.
The only way to stop this is to make the risk greater than reward. To
do that, we need to provide secure storage and to do that we need more
control over our space, which means a new space. Our efforts would be
better placed towards this.
I still cycle to the space, and I will continue to do so. My office is
above also, so I have little choice in the matter. Sting operations
and 'justice' is all well and good but it requires a lot of effort and
is essentially fighting a negative with a negative. I have no problems
with people doing this on their own - I admit it can be fun and
somewhat cathartic but the space as a whole can't take that line. As a
whole, we need to seriously start looking for somewhere new and
sharpish.
B
On 22 October 2012 09:43, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> 1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a
> sting operation commences?
> 2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief.
> 3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly break
> the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free to don
> chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the
>> > police
>> > about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a
>> > rigged
>> > bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with
>> > Panorama-esk
>> > style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching
>> > them
>> > and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
>> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
>> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
>> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
>> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
>> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
>> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
>> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
>> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
>> floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
> Right, I'm weighing in on this one as its personal... I've had bikes
> stolen and wheels nicked and all the rest. I can assure you that it
> pisses me off royally as I rely on a bike for work and my profession.
> It makes me grumpy for weeks when I have no wheels. As a regular
> driver of cars, vans, motorcycles and bikes in London, I've seen it
> all.
> The only way to stop this is to make the risk greater than reward. To
> do that, we need to provide secure storage and to do that we need more
> control over our space, which means a new space. Our efforts would be
> better placed towards this.
> I still cycle to the space, and I will continue to do so. My office is
> above also, so I have little choice in the matter. Sting operations
> and 'justice' is all well and good but it requires a lot of effort and
> is essentially fighting a negative with a negative. I have no problems
> with people doing this on their own - I admit it can be fun and
> somewhat cathartic but the space as a whole can't take that line. As a
> whole, we need to seriously start looking for somewhere new and
> sharpish.
> B
> On 22 October 2012 09:43, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
> >> 1. You'll get stabbed
> >> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
> >> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
> >> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> > 1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a
> > sting operation commences?
> > 2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief.
> > 3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly
> break
> > the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free to
> don
> > chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)
> > On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
> >> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the
> >> > police
> >> > about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a
> >> > rigged
> >> > bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with
> >> > Panorama-esk
> >> > style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching
> >> > them
> >> > and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
> >> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
> >> 1. You'll get stabbed
> >> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
> >> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
> >> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
> >> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
> >> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
> >> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
> >> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
> >> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
> >> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
> >> floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
Would it be worth putting up a sign and making some "tracker boxes"?
Rather than dicking around with trackers and cameras why not just stick
some reasonably tough boxes with a reasonably 'real' looking lens on them
pointed at a bike rack (I'd suggest the one in the Business Centre) with a
nice big "smile you're on CCTV" sign on it. It's one thing to be aware that
there is CCTV about the place and it might possibly see your back in grainy
400x400-o-vision it's another to have a camera lens pointed at you whilst
you try to nick someone's bike (extra points for blinkin lights etc).
Of course if you really want you could actually make this box but I imagine
it'll get smashed pretty quickly but if it's a nice block of wood with
acrylic on the outside and whatever electronics well protected in the
centre it should be ok.
S
On 22 October 2012 10:20, David Murphy <murphy.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> note everyone, at no point did he run after the guy shouting questions or
> risk getting stabbed.
> he did however get his stuff back.
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Benjamin Blundell <onida...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Right, I'm weighing in on this one as its personal... I've had bikes
>> stolen and wheels nicked and all the rest. I can assure you that it
>> pisses me off royally as I rely on a bike for work and my profession.
>> It makes me grumpy for weeks when I have no wheels. As a regular
>> driver of cars, vans, motorcycles and bikes in London, I've seen it
>> all.
>> The only way to stop this is to make the risk greater than reward. To
>> do that, we need to provide secure storage and to do that we need more
>> control over our space, which means a new space. Our efforts would be
>> better placed towards this.
>> I still cycle to the space, and I will continue to do so. My office is
>> above also, so I have little choice in the matter. Sting operations
>> and 'justice' is all well and good but it requires a lot of effort and
>> is essentially fighting a negative with a negative. I have no problems
>> with people doing this on their own - I admit it can be fun and
>> somewhat cathartic but the space as a whole can't take that line. As a
>> whole, we need to seriously start looking for somewhere new and
>> sharpish.
>> B
>> On 22 October 2012 09:43, 930913 <proxify.my.em...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> >> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> >> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> >> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> >> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
>> > 1. Are you suggesting that the chainmail workshop should be run before a
>> > sting operation commences?
>> > 2. See part about interviewing police to find out how to catch a thief.
>> > 3. In the unlikely event of this happening, they will almost certainly
>> break
>> > the law, so we call the police to move them on/arrest them. Feel free
>> to don
>> > chainmail for personal protection (see also: 1.)
>> > On Monday, October 22, 2012 6:35:51 AM UTC+1, Jon Fautley wrote:
>> >> On 22 October 2012 03:47, 930913 <proxify....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> > We can film production of the sting bike. We can go to interview the
>> >> > police
>> >> > about what's being done, and ask them how we can catch a thief with a
>> >> > rigged
>> >> > bike. We can chase thieves on camera, perhaps heckle them with
>> >> > Panorama-esk
>> >> > style of shouting questions but receiving no answers, before catching
>> >> > them
>> >> > and interviewing them before turning them over to the police.
>> >> Or, more likely one of the following will happen:
>> >> 1. You'll get stabbed
>> >> 2. The police will arrest you for unlawfully detaining someone
>> >> 3. The bike thief will gather his friends and give the hackspace (and
>> >> its members) a hard time (see also: 1.)
>> >> While its obvious that something needs to be done to try and curb the
>> >> number of bike thefts in the local area, I'm not sure vigilante
>> >> justice is it. Sting operations, while sounding like a good idea, have
>> >> a huge number of practical issues to be concerned with, not least
>> >> "What do I do once the thief has got the bike?".
>> >> Would a better option not be to arrange CCTV and nice bright
>> >> floodlights for the bike area in the car park?
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Russ Garrett wrote:
> Firstly, I assume all these thefts have been reported to the police?
> I don't think we can really condone any kind of sting action, nor do I
> think that it'll do any good.
> It's likely that the most productive thing that people can do is help
> out looking for a new space, where we'll have enough room to provide
> lockable bike storage:
I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.
I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Fuxy <ciuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody
> notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become
> girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just
> minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured
> me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.
> I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as
> an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think
> twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.
Everyone's a wit after Friday night drinks. Glad you considered this worth
sending to over 1500 people.
I have just bought one of these https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister when it arrives I will install it at the space and if anyone is interested to see what it entails and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will do the install
On Saturday, 27 October 2012 00:36:03 UTC+1, Mark Steward wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Fuxy <ciu...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>> I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody >> notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become >> girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just >> minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured >> me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.
>> I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as >> an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think >> twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.
> Everyone's a wit after Friday night drinks. Glad you considered this > worth sending to over 1500 people.
As part of an organised response we hackspace members can do is to ensure we go through the tedium of reporting theft of bikes from hackspace to at least make the police aware of the problem. I know I have been guilty of not dong this after a couple of bike thefts because I had zero expectation of ever seeing my bike again but that actually makes me part of the problem because they didn't appear in crime statistics.
We could also check with the landlord as to the coverage of the newly installed CCTV and then make sure we only lock bikes where they can be seen by the cameras
On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:42:13 UTC+1, Simon wrote:
> I have just bought one of these > https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister when it arrives I will > install it at the space and if anyone is interested to see what it entails > and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will do the install
> Simon
> On Saturday, 27 October 2012 00:36:03 UTC+1, Mark Steward wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Fuxy <ciu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody >>> notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become >>> girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just >>> minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured >>> me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.
>>> I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good as >>> an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think >>> twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.
>> Everyone's a wit after Friday night drinks. Glad you considered this >> worth sending to over 1500 people.
I reported both of mine, and I have to say that it wasn't all that tedious. I just called 101 and it got done pretty easily, and I didn't have to actually look at a policeperson, which was nice. There's also https://online.met.police.uk/ - which is perfectly suitable for reporting a bike theft.
On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:45:57 UTC+1, Simon wrote:
> As part of an organised response we hackspace members can do is to ensure > we go through the tedium of reporting theft of bikes from hackspace to at > least make the police aware of the problem. I know I have been guilty of > not dong this after a couple of bike thefts because I had zero expectation > of ever seeing my bike again but that actually makes me part of the problem > because they didn't appear in crime statistics.
> We could also check with the landlord as to the coverage of the newly > installed CCTV and then make sure we only lock bikes where they can be seen > by the cameras
> On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:42:13 UTC+1, Simon wrote:
>> I have just bought one of these >> https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister when it arrives I will >> install it at the space and if anyone is interested to see what it entails >> and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will do the install
>> Simon
>> On Saturday, 27 October 2012 00:36:03 UTC+1, Mark Steward wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Fuxy <ciu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I say catch the thieves take them to a nice isolated place where nobody >>>> notices them scream and hook their nuts to a car battery until they become >>>> girls. What are the going to say? "Officer arrest these people i was just >>>> minding my ow business steeling a bike when these people came and tortured >>>> me". Do that to a couple and i bet that would make them prefer other areas.
>>>> I know we're trying to be civilized and all but nothing works as good >>>> as an angry mob kicking the crap out of some criminals to make them think >>>> twice about stealing from our area. I'd sure as hell bring a pitchfork.
>>> Everyone's a wit after Friday night drinks. Glad you considered this >>> worth sending to over 1500 people.
The Bike Register <https://www.bikeregister.com/> website is impressive, it reminds me of another company's service which I signed up to a while ago (Bike Shepherd <http://www.bikeshepherd.org/>), but Bike Register offers a more local view of bicycle theft via their map feature<https://www.bikeregister.com/stolen-bikes>. I feel this would be better with a time drop-down as well (e.g. being able to see most recent thefts, say only from this year). Bike Shepherd seems a little too half-finished these days, operating at a uselessly global-level, meaning if you're signed up to their alerts, you're informed about thefts in America - unable to only be notified of more local thefts (say from London, or a particular borough).
I'd like to see a bicycle register/tagging website/app which alerts users to bicycles stolen from their local area (in real-time!) as these people would then be most likely to spot a stolen bicycle or part (my own bicycle that was stolen from Bethnal Green was then spotted by myself around two weeks later within 1km of where it was stolen from!).
Ps. Like the use of RFID in this product<https://www.immobilise.com/view.php?stage=product&category=1&product=2> - be even better if cyclists could somehow be able to scan parked bicycles automatically (via mobile RFID readers attached to mobile phones?!) to check if those bicycles are registered as stolen.
Given that the Met are using the Bike Register database<http://content.met.police.uk/News/Police-register-bikes-for-free/1400...>, it would be nice if the part of this database which details stolen bicycles was openly accessible to other applications (e.g. one described as above, that informed local cyclists in real-time about a bicycle theft).
On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:42:13 UTC+1, Simon wrote:
> I have just bought one of these > https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister when it arrives I will > install it at the space and if anyone is interested to see what it entails > and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will do the install
> The Bike Register <https://www.bikeregister.com/> website is impressive,
> it reminds me of another company's service which I signed up to a while ago
> (Bike Shepherd <http://www.bikeshepherd.org/>), but Bike Register offers
> a more local view of bicycle theft via their map feature<https://www.bikeregister.com/stolen-bikes>.
> I feel this would be better with a time drop-down as well (e.g. being able
> to see most recent thefts, say only from this year). Bike Shepherd seems
> a little too half-finished these days, operating at a uselessly
> global-level, meaning if you're signed up to their alerts, you're informed
> about thefts in America - unable to only be notified of more local thefts
> (say from London, or a particular borough).
> I'd like to see a bicycle register/tagging website/app which alerts users
> to bicycles stolen from their local area (in real-time!) as these people
> would then be most likely to spot a stolen bicycle or part (my own bicycle
> that was stolen from Bethnal Green was then spotted by myself around two
> weeks later within 1km of where it was stolen from!).
> Ps.
> Like the use of RFID in this product<https://www.immobilise.com/view.php?stage=product&category=1&product=2> -
> be even better if cyclists could somehow be able to scan parked bicycles
> automatically (via mobile RFID readers attached to mobile phones?!) to
> check if those bicycles are registered as stolen.
> Given that the Met are using the Bike Register database<http://content.met.police.uk/News/Police-register-bikes-for-free/1400...>,
> it would be nice if the part of this database which details stolen bicycles
> was openly accessible to other applications (e.g. one described as above,
> that informed local cyclists in real-time about a bicycle theft).
> On Saturday, 27 October 2012 10:42:13 UTC+1, Simon wrote:
>> I have just bought one of these https://www.bikeregister.com/** >> shop/bikeregister <https://www.bikeregister.com/shop/bikeregister> when
>> it arrives I will install it at the space and if anyone is interested to
>> see what it entails and how it works then I can arrange a time when I will
>> do the install
Someone recently nicked my brake pad inserts (not at Hackspace mind) causing me to not being able to stop at a roundabout and consequently be hit by a lorry. I now always do a full check before I ride off. Would have preferred them to nick the whole brake at least them it would have been visible.
How about a group buy on security bolts like Pitlocks<http://www.pitlock.com>etc to replace the hex/nut/quick release bits on our bikes? Also you can get locks or rather chains that will defeat all bolt croppers upto 4ft. Pragmasis <http://securityforbikes.com/security-chains.php> are the guys to speak to about that, their 16mm and 19mm are epic. Though pricey.
On Tuesday, 6 November 2012 09:28:20 UTC, SamValiant wrote:
> Someone recently nicked my brake pad inserts (not at Hackspace mind) > causing me to not being able to stop at a roundabout and consequently be > hit by a lorry. I now always do a full check before I ride off. Would have > preferred them to nick the whole brake at least them it would have been > visible.
> How about a group buy on security bolts like Pitlocks<http://www.pitlock.com>etc to replace the hex/nut/quick release bits on our bikes? Also you can > get locks or rather chains that will defeat all bolt croppers upto 4ft. > Pragmasis <http://securityforbikes.com/security-chains.php> are the guys > to speak to about that, their 16mm and 19mm are epic. Though pricey.
