Ideas for improving the workshop

[Aaron Sokoloski]

Hi everyone,

I've only been a member for a few months now, but I see some recurring themes on the mailing list and in person about workshop tools being left out, misused, broken, etc.  I have some ideas that are relatively minor changes, but I think they might be quite helpful in making the workshop nicer.

I apologise if some of these ideas seem a bit draconian.  I am trying to focus on making the hackspace workshop nice in the long-term, and I think that our relatively laissez-faire attitude may be hurting us a little bit.  I also apologise for the length of the email, but I thought it was better than separating them into different threads.

***** Change hackable-by-default to do-not-hack by default.

(probably best to do in conjuction with the move to 445 Hackney Road, because it needs more space)

The main purpose of this change is to prevent people taking parts that would save a lot of effort in projects that have high value for the hackspace (e.g., fixing the lathe) and using them for a personal project.  This happened recently, apparently -- there was a potential new motor for the green lathe, including control board, but somebody grabbed a proprietary wire it used, so now somebody (probably mentar) has to reverse-engineer it.

As for machine tool parts/spares being hacked, I haven't noticed it happen myself, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably happened quite a few times.  Lots of lathe parts are not clearly part of a lathe, for example, and if left out could be mistaken for junk.

This sounds like a big change, but I don't think it will be huge.  As I see it right now, most things in the workshop are already do-not-hack by default: member boxes, all the big machines, hand tools, the workshop tables themselves, drill bits, saw blades and other cutting tools, and replacement parts for machines.  My idea is to replace do-not-hack stickers with separate storage areas for hackable machines and parts v.s. projects in progress, as well as labelling the shelves/bins for hardware/supplies that can be used to hack.  If it's not labelled, do not hack.

That means that tool parts that are accidentally left out (which even the best of us do from time to time) will be less likely to be hacked.

And the rule of never leaving your project out in the space stays the same.  Put it into your member box if it fits, and if not, mail the list and put it into the do-not-hack project area.  Unless--if it's related to fixing/improving something for the hackspace, then keep it next to the thing needing fixing.

Obviously, we need to maintain the same vigilance against people taking up storage space for projects that never get done.  So we would still need some kind of stickers or register for personal projects that are too big to fit into member boxes.

Again, this needs more space, so if we decide to do it, it's best to wait for 445 hackney road.

***** Policing the workshop to prevent tool abuse.

A lot of people seem quite resigned to tools being misused and broken.  Perhaps I am just a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed new member, but gee golly, I think that having a nice, functioning workshop is something worth fighting for.  I don't like showing the workshop to visitors and explaining that we have lots of nice tools, but half of them are broken.

I really like the idea of Sol's tool access control, yet it's a technological solution to a people problem, and suspect it won't completely solve it.

I think that the average hackspace member is quite averse to face-to-face confrontation.  When someone is misusing a tool, we don't want to be the bad guy who says they should stop, and that maybe they can't actually finish their project right here and now.  But we all know that stopping someone from misusing a tool to finish one project can mean that 10 other projects get done because the tool is still working.  I think we should emphasize that fact, and encourage people to speak up for the hackspace.  For example, it would be quite nice to have a big poster saying "Keep the hackspace hacking!" and explaining all this, so that when you stop somone abusing a tool, you can just point to the poster as a higher authority.

Solexious and others have done a great job emphasizing how fragile the laser cutter is, but most tools are fragile in their own way, and while they are not as expensive as laser cutter optics, they do add up.

We should make it clear that it's ok to stop someone doing their project if it looks like they don't know how to use a tool.  It's great if someone is there to help them use it properly, but if not, that's too bad.  Try not to think of it as being mean to one person, but as standing up for every other member of the hackspace.

I know some members are already doing this.  I just think we want to encourage more people to feel comfortable doing it.

***** Discouraging haste.

This relates strongly preventing tool abuse.  Getting people to slow down and work carefully in the short term means a nicer hackspace in the long term.  I think it would be good to emphasize these points:

* If you need it done quickly, the hackspace may not be the best place.  You may have to pay somebody in exchange for speed.

* Hackspace time is valuable, but if you cannot finish everything today, please accept that.  Don't rush.

* Some things can't be done in the hackspace without abusing tools.  Don't try!  Keeping tools working is more important than finishing your project.

* Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency for the hackspace.

* Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

* Budget time for cleanup.  Don't work up until the moment you have to leave.

I may have a poster printed with these.

Thoughts?  Apologies in advance if these have been discussed many times before.

Cheers,

Aaron Sokoloski (asoko)

TLDR: I liek lathe.

[william...@gmail.com]

Personally, I support keeping 'hack by default' because it stops junk accumulating.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "London Hackspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Sam Kelly]

It means broken or half-hacked junk accumulating.

--
Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/

That's it. We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger
dictionary. - Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.

[Martin Dittus]

Ah. Maybe it's time to review our initial assumptions then.

Have others experienced the same? Does "do hack" by default result in more trouble than we initially thought?

m.

[Adrian Godwin]

That's probably true, but I think it happens either way, as there will
always (I hope) be some items for hacking. More intelligent /
responsible use of the aftermath is what's needed to stop that.

[Sam Kelly]

I love the principle behind it, but (especially with the current
diffuseness of our membership base) I see/hear about fewer successful
improvements or opportunistic hacks than things brought in on the
offchance and then going unused, or things getting messed around with
and then neither finished nor discarded.

Of course, this might be because we rarely hear about successful hacks...

[o.gre...@gmail.com]

I don't see how we could not have some sort of sticker system.

The stickers don't just denote stuff that shouldn't be destroyed, they define ownership.  If we do away with all stickers, we will end up with heaps of untraceable stuff we can't hack or throw out *or contact the owner of, because no one known who it belongs to*

This would be bad IMO.

More access control might be good, but only if getting it wasn't too much of an obstacle.

[Jonty Wareing]

> The main purpose of this change is to prevent people taking parts that
> would save a lot of effort in projects that have high value for the
> hackspace (e.g., fixing the lathe) and using them for a personal
> project. This happened recently, apparently -- there was a potential
> new motor for the green lathe, including control board, but somebody
> grabbed a proprietary wire it used, so now somebody (probably mentar)
> has to reverse-engineer it.

This is a terrible idea, as it immediately leads to junk accumulation
with absolutely no way of tracing the source and no policy regarding
disposal.

The _only_ reason this happened to that lathe motor was because it was
not labelled and was tucked in a corner. On tuesday I was pointed to
another motor that was hidden in a corner not labelled. How anyone is
supposed to know that these are for lathe repair and haven't just been
dumped I will never know.

I have absolutely no sympathy for things being moved/altered when they
are just lying around in the workshop without some kind of label
attached to them. If anything the issue here is that we're not kicking
people hard enough when they hide things in the space.

> As for machine tool parts/spares being hacked, I haven't noticed it
> happen myself, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably
> happened quite a few times. Lots of lathe parts are not clearly part
> of a lathe, for example, and if left out could be mistaken for junk.

Hacked != Tidied away somewhere non-obvious. People are not stupid.

> We should make it clear that it's ok to stop someone doing their
> project if it looks like they don't know how to use a tool. It's great
> if someone is there to help them use it properly, but if not, that's
> too bad.

This is standard etiquette, as a member you should already be doing this.
The space is owned and operated by everyone, it is in your own interest
that nobody be harmed or harm the equipment in the space.

That said, I would not be against formalising this in the rules somehow.


> Haste

> This relates strongly preventing tool abuse. Getting people to slow
> down and work carefully in the short term means a nicer hackspace in
> the long term. I think it would be good to emphasize these points:

This is basically unenforceable other than being a nice philosophy,
which we already communicate to anyone contacting us asking to use a
tool RIGHT NOW. I quite enjoy informing them that they must get trained.

--jonty

[Martin Dittus]

On 10 Mar 2013, at 13:35, Jonty Wareing <jo...@jonty.co.uk> wrote:

>> We should make it clear that it's ok to stop someone doing their
>> project if it looks like they don't know how to use a tool. It's great
>> if someone is there to help them use it properly, but if not, that's
>> too bad.
>
> This is standard etiquette, as a member you should already be doing this.
> The space is owned and operated by everyone, it is in your own interest
> that nobody be harmed or harm the equipment in the space.
>
> That said, I would not be against formalising this in the rules somehow.

Maybe it doesn't even need to be in the rules. Maybe we simply need a brief summary of how we'd like people to interact in the space, because it's not always obvious to newcomers:
- if in doubt, ask; although many of us are shy be assured that we're a very approachable bunch
- if someone does it wrong, help them figure out how to do it better; and in extreme cases suggest that they get trained first.
- if someone's being a dick, politely ask them to stop.

Etc.

[Mark Steward]

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Aaron Sokoloski <asoko...@gmail.com> wrote:

***** Discouraging haste.

This relates strongly preventing tool abuse.  Getting people to slow down and work carefully in the short term means a nicer hackspace in the long term.  I think it would be good to emphasize these points:

* If you need it done quickly, the hackspace may not be the best place.  You may have to pay somebody in exchange for speed.

* Hackspace time is valuable, but if you cannot finish everything today, please accept that.  Don't rush.

* Some things can't be done in the hackspace without abusing tools.  Don't try!  Keeping tools working is more important than finishing your project.

* Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency for the hackspace.

* Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

* Budget time for cleanup.  Don't work up until the moment you have to leave.

I may have a poster printed with these.

A poster's great, but I think it's likely to be missed by the people who need to read it most.  It should also be referenced in the welcome email and the new members guide.

I've put your wording at http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Guides/Using_the_space for now - please let me know if you're uncomfortable with that and I'll change it.

Mark

[Charles Yarnold]

Hi Aaron,

First off thanks for taking the time to write a well thought out and articulate email to the list, very refreshing. That said please don't let it discourage you that I'm about to disagree with some of your post, I have made my comments inline:

On 10 March 2013 09:38, Aaron Sokoloski <asoko...@gmail.com> wrote:

***** Change hackable-by-default to do-not-hack by default.

(probably best to do in conjuction with the move to 445 Hackney Road, because it needs more space)

The main purpose of this change is to prevent people taking parts that would save a lot of effort in projects that have high value for the hackspace (e.g., fixing the lathe) and using them for a personal project.  This happened recently, apparently -- there was a potential new motor for the green lathe, including control board, but somebody grabbed a proprietary wire it used, so now somebody (probably mentar) has to reverse-engineer it.

Sadly even if this had been correctly stickered, the mailing list informed and we did move to "do-not-hack by default" Russ' first law still applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by someone actually tidying up for a change."

As it was a small link cable, not attached with tape to the item its far more likely that it was lost while the item was moved around the workshop. The likely hood of someone needing that exact (and as I understand it hard to find) cable and removing it from the pile is slim. In this case it would have served the owner to take into account Russ' first law of hackspace and securely attached loose bits.

As for machine tool parts/spares being hacked, I haven't noticed it happen myself, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably happened quite a few times.  Lots of lathe parts are not clearly part of a lathe, for example, and if left out could be mistaken for junk.

[snip] 

Obviously, we need to maintain the same vigilance against people taking up storage space for projects that never get done.  So we would still need some kind of stickers or register for personal projects that are too big to fit into member boxes.

Again, this needs more space, so if we decide to do it, it's best to wait for 445 hackney road.

As others have said, the hack-by-default nature of the hackspace is to stop junk filling up the space. The DNH stickers have been abused so far by many members, with some people pushing the notion that just slapping a sticker on something gives it impunity from action without bothering to engage with the community about what the item is and what it is for. I think quite the opposite from making items in the space less hackable, we should make them more.

***** Policing the workshop to prevent tool abuse.

[snip]

I know some members are already doing this.  I just think we want to encourage more people to feel comfortable doing it.

While I agree, we already have signs in the workshop point out alot of this, Russ made "Workshop etiquette" posters and placed them in the workshop. It doesn't seemed to have helped much sadly, it could be that people are used to them and a redesign would catch peoples eye, but I fear another approach would be better, what that could be I'm not sure yet.

***** Discouraging haste.

This relates strongly preventing tool abuse.  Getting people to slow down and work carefully in the short term means a nicer hackspace in the long term.  I think it would be good to emphasize these points:

[snip] 

I may have a poster printed with these.

Again while I did start a mailing list post about a sign to be put up in the space a while ago I still stand by what I said above.

We have signs detailing how to store items in the space, is still gets ignored, the same for workshop etiquette, by all means give it ago, but so far it doesn't seem to be a working solution...

Best,

Sol

[Aaron Sokoloski]

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Charles Yarnold <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sadly even if this had been correctly stickered, the mailing list informed and we did move to "do-not-hack by default" Russ' first law still applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by someone actually tidying up for a change."

As it was a small link cable, not attached with tape to the item its far more likely that it was lost while the item was moved around the workshop. The likely hood of someone needing that exact (and as I understand it hard to find) cable and removing it from the pile is slim. In this case it would have served the owner to take into account Russ' first law of hackspace and securely attached loose bits.

Hmm, excellent point, I hadn't considered that.

 

As for machine tool parts/spares being hacked, I haven't noticed it happen myself, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably happened quite a few times.  Lots of lathe parts are not clearly part of a lathe, for example, and if left out could be mistaken for junk.

[snip] 

Obviously, we need to maintain the same vigilance against people taking up storage space for projects that never get done.  So we would still need some kind of stickers or register for personal projects that are too big to fit into member boxes.

Again, this needs more space, so if we decide to do it, it's best to wait for 445 hackney road.

As others have said, the hack-by-default nature of the hackspace is to stop junk filling up the space. The DNH stickers have been abused so far by many members, with some people pushing the notion that just slapping a sticker on something gives it impunity from action without bothering to engage with the community about what the item is and what it is for. I think quite the opposite from making items in the space less hackable, we should make them more.

I'm certainly in favour of stricter rules about junk.  I think the workshop is cluttered enough for it to be a safety hazard -- not just for the fire escape, but the possibility of tripping on something and bumping someone into the bench grinder or whatever.

I suppose I've had a bit of tunnel-vision.  Lathes are wonderful machines, and it would please me greatly to have all three of them operational, so I'm a bit focused on that.  But you and Jonty are right.  Avoiding clutter is really a constant battle, I guess.

By the way, what do you mean by "more hackable"?  Do you just mean lessening the power of the do-not-hack stickers?

***** Policing the workshop to prevent tool abuse.

[snip]

I know some members are already doing this.  I just think we want to encourage more people to feel comfortable doing it.

While I agree, we already have signs in the workshop point out alot of this, Russ made "Workshop etiquette" posters and placed them in the workshop. It doesn't seemed to have helped much sadly, it could be that people are used to them and a redesign would catch peoples eye, but I fear another approach would be better, what that could be I'm not sure yet.

Ok, good to know.  I'm guessing that the crowding of the space makes the posters less noticeable.

In any case, you often need to hit people over the head with the message.  Big posters that can be read from across the shop are good. I can't remember what the current ones look like, which is probably a bad thing.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Aaron Sokoloski]

A poster's great, but I think it's likely to be missed by the people who need to read it most.  It should also be referenced in the welcome email and the new members guide.

 

Not the way I'm planning on printing it ;)

 

I've put your wording at http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Guides/Using_the_space for now - please let me know if you're uncomfortable with that and I'll change it.

No, that's great, thanks very much.

[Martin Dittus]

On 10 Mar 2013, at 14:59, Aaron Sokoloski <asoko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While I agree, we already have signs in the workshop point out alot of this, Russ made "Workshop etiquette" posters and placed
> > them in the workshop. It doesn't seemed to have helped much sadly, it could be that people are used to them and a redesign
> > would catch peoples eye, but I fear another approach would be better, what that could be I'm not sure yet.
>
> Ok, good to know. I'm guessing that the crowding of the space makes the posters less noticeable.

Yeah I'm curious about the effect of a new, larger workshop; which will likely be less cluttered initially. Posters with large lettering should stand out more easily than they currently can.

m.

[Charles Yarnold]

On 10 March 2013 14:59, Aaron Sokoloski <asoko...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm certainly in favour of stricter rules about junk.  I think the workshop is cluttered enough for it to be a safety hazard -- not just for the fire escape, but the possibility of tripping on something and bumping someone into the bench grinder or whatever.

I suppose I've had a bit of tunnel-vision.  Lathes are wonderful machines, and it would please me greatly to have all three of them operational, so I'm a bit focused on that.  But you and Jonty are right.  Avoiding clutter is really a constant battle, I guess.

By the way, what do you mean by "more hackable"?  Do you just mean lessening the power of the do-not-hack stickers?

Ah, I think I may have gone off on a little tangent that isn't hugely on topic. I did just write a clarification, but have removed it as I fear it may derail the thread so will post it in a new thread at some point :)

***** Policing the workshop to prevent tool abuse.

[snip]

I know some members are already doing this.  I just think we want to encourage more people to feel comfortable doing it.

While I agree, we already have signs in the workshop point out alot of this, Russ made "Workshop etiquette" posters and placed them in the workshop. It doesn't seemed to have helped much sadly, it could be that people are used to them and a redesign would catch peoples eye, but I fear another approach would be better, what that could be I'm not sure yet.

Ok, good to know.  I'm guessing that the crowding of the space makes the posters less noticeable.

In any case, you often need to hit people over the head with the message.  Big posters that can be read from across the shop are good. I can't remember what the current ones look like, which is probably a bad thing.

Cool beans, posters are a change that's easy to roll back if they prove not to work, so it all sounds good to me! 

[mentar]

Thanks for your input Aaron, it's good to get fresh perspectives on the hackspace's problems.
my 2p:

1. "Change hackable-by-default to do-not-hack by default."

1. I see where you are coming from, however it's a battle between accumulating junk and tools being hacked. I think the former is much more of a problem. Tools that do not have a maintainer seem to be at more risk of getting hacked, so those with knowledge/time should try and take care of tools they do know how to take care of.
   

1. "Policing the workshop to prevent tool abuse."

1. I think we are getting a bit better at this after some obvious misuses have caused a lot of argument. With over 600 members we have to make this fool-proof, posters on construction sites deal with similar size audiences, they have symbols for almost everything to help be more noticeable. Maybe something like this would work better. I'd volunteer to make them but my drawing skills are crap.
   
2. "Discouraging haste."  
   

   Tricky one as can be interpreted "don't rush on your projects", leading to more junk in the space. I've had to chase a guy down who left the pillar drill in a mess. As well as well as telling people off for leaving their discarded projects on the soldering bench. Poster and tour mentions should help but it needs to be enforced by those of us who see people leaving a mess/stuff behind.
   

Cheers
Mentar

P.S. Phil was working on the "medium" lathe, he also sourced the treadmill motor and was working on it until he hit the annoying cable issue. As we've given up on the mini lathe it may make sense to look into the medium lathe, I'll take a look at that motor and controller next time I'm in.

[Charles Yarnold]

On 10 March 2013 14:59, Aaron Sokoloski <asoko...@gmail.com> wrote:

I suppose I've had a bit of tunnel-vision.  Lathes are wonderful machines, and it would please me greatly to have all three of them operational, so I'm a bit focused on that. 

I can totally sympathise, when someone breaks the lasercutter and tells no one I'm suddenly in favour of public flogging ;) 

[Aaron Sokoloski]

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Jonty Wareing <jo...@jonty.co.uk> wrote:

This is a terrible idea, as it immediately leads to junk accumulation
with absolutely no way of tracing the source and no policy regarding
disposal.

Actually, reading back now, I think I may have miscommunicated a bit.  I'm guessing you are imagining people starting projects and leaving them out everywhere, with no notification or label.  I'm imagining that such projects get moved into a pre-disposal area, with a warning to the mailing list for someone to take them away / request do-not-hack status (which should rightly be carefully rationed).  While in the unclaimed area, they go through a short period of unhackable, followed by hackable, followed by trash.  We could even have "Abandoned" labels where you write the date it was collected, so it's clear what stage it's in.

Right now, I don't know if there is such an area, so often when I want to clear off workbenches, I don't know what to do with the bits people have abandoned, or even whether they are worth keeping.  So I just leave things where they are.  Perhaps they should go into the 3-week bins, but those seem to be for small electronics that people have just brought in, not bigger abandoned hardware projects.  I'd like to just put them aside, and get members with more experience to help out with the decision of what to do with them.  As it is, a new member knows not to leave their own stuff out, but there's no simple rule for cleaning up when other people do.

I don't advocate changing the rules for storing projects in the space, just the temporary status of ambiguous goods.  It's actually quite a subtle change, as I'm thinking of it.  Unless you mean that we don't want to be storing such things even temporarily, in which case there is no confusion and I defer to your greater experience in such matters.

In fact, I think that having a clear place and procedure (posted in the space) for abandon-bits would go a long way toward keeping the space tidier, regardless of the hack/do-not-hack rules.  We could do exactly what I suggest above, but skip the "unhackable" stage.

I have absolutely no sympathy for things being moved/altered when they
are just lying around in the workshop without some kind of label
attached to them. If anything the issue here is that we're not kicking
people hard enough when they hide things in the space.

Good point.  I hadn't realised how essential it was to label things.  I suppose I'm still not used to using a shared space with 600 members.

 

> We should make it clear that it's ok to stop someone doing their
> project if it looks like they don't know how to use a tool. It's great
> if someone is there to help them use it properly, but if not, that's
> too bad.

This is standard etiquette, as a member you should already be doing this.
The space is owned and operated by everyone, it is in your own interest
that nobody be harmed or harm the equipment in the space.

That said, I would not be against formalising this in the rules somehow.

 

Great.  It can be hard to speak up, and having encouragement in explicit rules helps a lot.  Especially when some people give you the vibe of "Anything in the hackspace is going to break soon anyway, so why bother."

 

> Haste

> This relates strongly preventing tool abuse. Getting people to slow
> down and work carefully in the short term means a nicer hackspace in
> the long term. I think it would be good to emphasize these points:

This is basically unenforceable other than being a nice philosophy,
which we already communicate to anyone contacting us asking to use a
tool RIGHT NOW. I quite enjoy informing them that they must get trained.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it enforceable.  Just to make it more explicit, so that new members get a feel for it and don't feel self-conscious about speaking up.  You guys have been around for a while, and while I've read much of the wiki, it takes some time to feel at-home enough in the space to take ownership for protecting it.

Thanks!

Aaron

[invent_or]

Having read the thread, I think that the top two ideas to be gained from this would be:

"Abandoned" date stickers. If something appears to be hidden in a corner or left, it gets a red "Abandoned" date sticker (if too big for the 3 week box, etc.) and after, say, 7 days it becomes fair game for hacking or throwing out.

Get some bright orange paint (something unusual and distinctive) and paint things belonging to the hackspace with it. That way people know what not to hack, it proclaims it is a shared tool, and stops confusion. (Does this already happen? It's a fairly common tactic.)

N

[Sam Kelly]

Expansion: resistor-style colour codes.

eg. all objects associated with the laser cutter, blue - red - red -
red; all objects associated with the 3-in-1, blue-red-yellow-yellow;
all woodworking hand tools, blue-purple-red-yellow; all metalworking
hand tools, blue-orange-red-yellow. And so on. That way we have a
quick visual reference for not only what the space owns, but what
items belong together.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "London Hackspace" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

[invent_or]

Er...

Have you thought that through? The encoding would be horrendously hard to do, you'd need a list to work out what was meant to go where, and many things have multiple areas of use.Plus what if you were looking at it from the wrong side and the code was backwards?

Perhaps go with just the one colour, then add a sticker to label where it lives. (Far) Better would be some sort of tool board, but they take a lot more room.

N

[Monty]

There should already be "Notice of Disposal" stickers in one of the folders along with the other sticker types that kind of serve that purpose. If I remember correctly the sticker additionally has space for a URL to be included so it can refer to a mailing list post or wiki page.