Stratasys

[Ian Lewis]

Okay, now we seem to be half moved in, it seems to be time to look at the Stratasys to see what can be done.

I have found http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Equipment:Stratasys_FDM_1650 which, from the last notes, seems to think it was working... but it obviously isn't as there doesnt seem to be a lot of stuff under the lid anymore...

Is the plan to end up with a working 3D printer (I know, novel idea) or to try and rebuild the Stratasys to it's original finery?

As I only really come to the 'space once a week, I dont want to start this only to have someone come along a wreck it?  so I would like some buy in to that...

If you just want a printer, I'll sell you one for £600 and save the work!

Ian

[Mark Steward]

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Ian Lewis <iand...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you just want a printer, I'll sell you one for £600 and save the work!

This is an important point I think.  Newer printers are much more solid and reliable than the last one we bought in 2009, and the Stratasys has been repaired numerous times in the past.  What's the advantage of the massive casing if you need to disassemble a working machine to put it inside?

Mark

[Filthy hipster scum]

I believe to get it up and running, we only need a control board, two extruders and it should be up and running again. A few custom made parts to mount new extruders on too.

[Ian Lewis]

Okay, well I have the 4Pi I got from Kliment.  Do we have a budget of about £90 for a couple of J-Heads?...

Let me know what parts need to be printed and I'll print them

Ian

[Benjamin Blundell]

We've had so much hassle with our 3D printers over the years. My first memory and introduction to the hackspace was meeting a grumpy Russ who was upset with his 3D printer and not saying a lot :P

Honestly Chris, I think this project is a bit of a white elephant; much like my touch wall was. I think its time to let the stratasis go. I reckon there are better things you can spend your time on (and probably are doing, otherwise the stratasis would have been fixed by now).

But then we can start a pledge drive to buy a new thing! :D Run it like the laser cutter - ACNode for SURE, training FOR SURE and someone who *owns* the project, much like Charles does for the laser cutter. I think that is our best move.

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[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Refurbishing the Stratasys does have benefits if I recall though. The
heated print enclosure, high precision and high strength mechanical
parts, dual printheads and a huge 11x11x11inch print volume (iirc).

And if memory serves, the main problems have been trying to use 3rd
party filament with the existing print-heads and issues with obscuration
in the electronics due to vendor lock-in. Basically all to do with
trying to use software & feedstock other than the proprietary Stratasys
branded stuff. Until the drive electronics finally gave up anyway.

It is a big brick of a machine, but with the driver & print-head
upgrades it could possibly produce prints of greater precision than any
kit-build machines we could buy in. I'm also inclined to think that it's
less likely to break from frequent use once those bits are upgraded.
Overall it's a less delicate machine. And with nearing 700 members, like
with the other desired machine-tools, we may want to favour a more
robust design.

Just my 2p.

[David Murphy]

>touch wall

Was that that giant touch screen made with the glass from a coffee table? it may not have worked perfectly but it was still cool. 

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[Benjamin Blundell]

I didn't want to give it up but figured it was the best move. I honestl think if the stratasis was going to be fixed it would be but I know Chris is mega busy (as a lot of us are with the move). I am sceptical that the stratasis can cut it with something like the best makerbot but I could be wrong.

I'd love to play with a working 3D printer but I can't afford one yet and I'm sure a lot of us are in a similar position. There is a pledge drive at the moment for a makerbot but I'm not sure how that is going. It may be the best thing is to restart that and prepare it for acnode and see how the stratasis goes. There is a lot of scepticism over 3D printers, especially in the space and that kinda needs to be overcome.

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[Tim Reynolds]

This is a good point. The mechanical internals and the enclosure of the
stratasys seem like a great home for more hobbyist parts.

[Ian Lewis]

Look, if (as Chris says), all the running gear is okay, and all we need is to add a controller (and I have bought one that should do the job), get some hot ends, the price of which has to be met somewhere/somehow (about £90) and print some parts, then we can do something.

I don't want to put time in, only for someone to 'rage against the machine' (you can count the parts as a permanent loan rather than a donation) and smash it up before we get it complete.

I know how some people feel about 3D printers and not taking them seriously, but they are tools and aren't things to be marked with DNH stickers. Are the non-working lathes also marked as such? If I think it cannot be made to work within a reasonable time, I will say so and, as I said before, would happily sell a 3D printer to the space for £600.

As for Makerbot, people that have them wouldn't get another, which says something.

I will stop off tomorrow on the way home and give an assessment.

If people aren't happy with this approach, please let me know...

Ian

[Tim Reynolds]

This sounds really good, thankyou for putting the time, money and
effort into this.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

When you say you've bought a controller that should do the job, do you
mean specifically for the Stratasys or you have one that should be
compatible? If the latter, could it be temporarily hooked up the
stratasys to prove it's viable and encourage fund-raising for a
dedicated controller?

On 14/05/2013 19:49, Ian Lewis wrote:

[Benjamin Blundell]

I use Makerbot incorrectly to mean any 3D printer you can generally buy for sub £4000 on a non commercial basis.

DNH Stickers are there because the Stratasis is a personal project (and always has been - no-one has used it except Chris really...) and it has never become a "Tool". If that is to be the case, which I think you are suggesting, it needs to be fixed and the money paid for the parts by the space. It then needs to be made accessible to all and not held as one persons project. Again, I make the comparison with the Lasercutter.

The issue is that it IS a lot of work for one person and yes, unlike the laser cutter there is a lot of scepticism - quite healthy I think- because we tried this before with the Makerbot and it didnt work - it just died.

All that said, yes, your approach is a good one provided something is actually done with the darn thing afterwards

[Metz]

A small, but I feel important point is being missed, I think. A working, community owned commercial grade 3D printed is a *great* advert for the hackspace, whether you like 3D printing or not. Just as the lasercutter does, it is likely to attract new members just for that machine alone.

I'm more than willing to donate time (and even limited funds) to getting the Stratasys working, if Chris wants/needs help.

[Ian Henderson]

I agree with Metz. I find it amazing that the space does not have a working 3D printer it can showcase

Also happy to contribute funds if his would help get Stratsys working

[Simon Howes]

And my axe!
Happy to help making parts in metal on my cnc mill/lathe
Or to print them in abs on my commercial 3D printer

On May 16, 2013 8:18 AM, "Ian Henderson" <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:

I agree with Metz. I find it amazing that the space does not have a working 3D printer it can showcase

Also happy to contribute funds if his would help get Stratsys working

[Filthy hipster scum]

Hey all.

Right, finally got time today to do a thorough check-up on the stratasys. As I have rpreviously said, all internal mechanics (including the steppers) are in full working order, especially as I performed a strip and clean to it pre-move.

After a quick talk with Ian on Wednesday, I have traced all the cables and found all the documentation for the parts, ferrous detecting end-stops, x-y controller pin outs, steppers etc. I have removed the old and power hungry heaters and flourescent lights.

I have paird the stepper cables and made ready for the 4-wire board. Also gave another clean

Basically it is ready to be connected to control board and ready to run.

All we need now are to nice tourqey nema17 steppers, 2 j-hotends (ian has offered to source and will start pledge, less than £100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled them, i will design a nice clean and easily accesable mount for them in the existing hot end housing (also been cleaned).

Charles will need to add a ACNode and it'll be up and running as a tool for the space. But like the laser cutter and charles, I will be its main care-taker/daddy lol.

Hope this has cleared up any concerns or apprensions about having a fully working, accurate, industrial 3D printer in the space to be used by people with training.

Regards
Hipster

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

If 305mNm NEMA17's would be sufficient, please see my other thread.
Two of them, plus the 3 requested for Billy's swap makes one neat lot of
5. So providing enough steppers for the Engraver and Stratasys.

[Ian Lewis]

how does 305mNm compare to 44N.cm?  we need a fair amount of 'pull' to get the filament over from it's box...

On Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:51:19 PM UTC+1, Sci wrote:

If 305mNm NEMA17's would be sufficient, please see my other thread.
Two of them, plus the 3 requested for Billy's swap makes one neat lot of
5. So providing enough steppers for the Engraver and Stratasys.

On 16/05/2013 17:39, Filthy hipster scum wrote:
> Hey all.
>
> Right, finally got time today to do a thorough check-up on the stratasys. As I have rpreviously said, all internal mechanics (including the steppers) are in full working order, especially as I performed a strip and clean to it pre-move.
>
> After a quick talk with Ian on Wednesday, I have traced all the cables and found all the documentation for the parts, ferrous detecting end-stops, x-y controller pin outs, steppers etc. I have removed the old and power hungry heaters and flourescent lights.
>
> I have paird the stepper cables and made ready for the 4-wire board. Also gave another clean
>
> Basically it is ready to be connected to control board and ready to run.
>

> All we need now are to nice tourqey nema17 steppers, 2 j-hotends (ian has offered to source and will start pledge, less than �100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled them, i will design a nice clean and easily accesable mount for them in the existing hot end housing (also been cleaned).

[Adrian Godwin]

305 mNm = 30.5 N.cm

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[Ian Lewis]

Thanks.... I though it was a more complicated calculation.

The 305 may not really have the balls for what were after. The recommended is the 44Ncm.  I have some at £11.50 if we're stuck (I may be able to do a bit better on that)

Ian 

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Same seller also has lots of 4 with 42Ncm torque for $30 if that's
sufficient?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120557925061

> than �100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled

> them, i will design a nice clean and easily accesable mount for
> them in the existing hot end housing (also been cleaned).
> >
> > Charles will need to add a ACNode and it'll be up and running
> as a tool for the space. But like the laser cutter and charles,
> I will be its main care-taker/daddy lol.
> >
> > Hope this has cleared up any concerns or apprensions about
> having a fully working, accurate, industrial 3D printer in the
> space to be used by people with training.
> >
> > Regards
> > Hipster
> >
>
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[Ian Lewis]

That would do...

We would only need 2 for the Stratasys though, so maybe we can still deal with Billy for a couple of his 23's?

>         than �100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

You'd need to ask Billy about that, presuming they're powerful enough to
meet your needs.

On 16/05/2013 19:17, Ian Lewis wrote:
> That would do...
>
> We would only need 2 for the Stratasys though, so maybe we can still
> deal with Billy for a couple of his 23's?
>
> On Thursday, May 16, 2013 6:51:57 PM UTC+1, Sci wrote:
>
> Same seller also has lots of 4 with 42Ncm torque for $30 if that's
> sufficient?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/120557925061
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/120557925061>
>
> On 16/05/2013 18:21, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> > 305 mNm = 30.5 N.cm
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Ian Lewis <iand...@gmail.com

> <javascript:>

> > than �100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled

> > them, i will design a nice clean and easily accesable
> mount for
> > them in the existing hot end housing (also been cleaned).
> > >
> > > Charles will need to add a ACNode and it'll be up and
> running
> > as a tool for the space. But like the laser cutter and
> charles,
> > I will be its main care-taker/daddy lol.
> > >
> > > Hope this has cleared up any concerns or apprensions
> about
> > having a fully working, accurate, industrial 3D printer
> in the
> > space to be used by people with training.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Hipster
> > >
> >
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[Ian Lewis]

i was thinking more of, get the 4, use 2 on the Stratasys, swap the other 2 with Billy so we have 23s for the engraver..

>      >         than �100). Once these have turned up and I've cad modeled

[Billy]

Happily swap the 23's for the engraver, with 17's. They were given to
me by Artag.

I'm not sure about the torque levels.

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[Billy]

Hey Sci, i pcked up the fan, and the power cells.

I left the motors in your box.

Also included a 4th motor i wombled from an old printer...

[Filthy hipster scum]

Hello all, right, quick Stratasys update, extruders have arrived, with a kind donation by Ian of a plate of 6mm aluminium, spent all today working out how to mount the new gear in old housing.

Think i've cracked it, just need to cad up, print out drawings and machine out, will take me a week or 2 to be at a testing state. Will hopefully work so nicely tho, come up with a new tensioning idea for direct drive extruders too. 

if anyone has some bowden tube fittings and tube, would be appreciated, for 1.75mm filament.

Regards

Hipster

[Ian Lewis]

For that you need PTFE tube with 4mm OD and 2mm ID.

I got some of eBay, so I can order some more with the pledge money, wasn't too expensive.  Can't remember where I got the fittings though.... I'll check later.

How much tube do we need?!

Please forgive typos, sent from my iPhone

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[X Malmesbury]

On the machining front, I just sent Russ an email about getting a proper collet chuck (and matching collets) for the 3-in-1. Could get a fairly fast turnaround on that....

[Ian Lewis]

Okay, so I got my bits from 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Push-Fitting-Nylon-Tube-Connector-Pneumatic-/250794509576?var=&hash=item80103238dc (connectors)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PTFE-Tube-Tubing-4mm-OD-2mm-ID-1-METRE-/251239917544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a7f10e7e8 (tubing)

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